The Awkward Silence

Extroverted Main Man

05:09

0

Q: My boyfriend lives with his mom and his mom said I’m not aloud over there and we share a kid together, what can i do to physically be a family?

My boyfriend and I have a one year old together. We don’t live together in california, I live at my parents house and he lives at his parents house. Close together, maybe a five minute drive in between. Well we both share joint custody, so I get 3 1/2 days and he does as well. His mom... oh boy....

united-states

avazula

06:17

@Ælis I have no idea either, I'm sorry :( I have mine in March and I was wondering is asking for a 1,000eur raise per year would be okay so...

JAD

07:10

@avazula that's probably less than inflation :/

avazula

@JAD oh ofc haha. But I'm really a newbie (my previous job forbid us to have a raise for the three first years and I accepted a pay cut to get to my current job so I've never been given a raise)

JAD

probably a culture difference then. At my company wages are corrected for inflation annually, whether you get a performance based raise or not

avazula

@JAD darn, that's cool

dhein

07:49

@avazula So was I :P And hey, that System sounds very similiar to my own system. Sadly it just happened, that I wasn't able to stick with the routine the last 2~3 Months... Now I am struggling to get back into it :(

And heya everyone :)

Ælis

@avazula According to my research, junior gain experience and thus value much more quickly so they get better raise (in %) than older people. Anyway, asking for a raise of 1000€ (after taxes) per year's seems definitively fine and I believe you could even ask for more

JAD

It sounds rather low to me too, but be sure to specify whether you mean before or after taxes (I guess use whatever you use over there to specify wages)

avazula

@dhein oh, that's bad :(

CaldeiraG

08:11

Morning :)

avazula

@Ælis darn ... but I'm in a startup though, maybe that's 5-10% is a bit too big to ask

A J

Afternoon!

> Doctor: You have a disease, but we can treat it.
Patient: What's the Cure?
Doctor: It's an 80s rock band fronted by Robert Smith, but let's try to stay focused...

3

dhein

08:38

@AJ x'D

@avazula It is... But I will try to fix it as soon I have unoccupied slots for it in my head. Currently need to fix the problem of having "fear of missing out" combined with the skillset on IPS that taught me to quite sucessfully being able to connect me with others.... leading to not really having had any time for myself the past half year >.<

As soon thats fixed, I think I will be able to also focus on things like getting back to my routines again :)

avazula

@dhein oh no, FOMO sucks :( I have it with alcohol (I hardly ever drink but can't resolve myself to quit because of FOMO).

dhein

@avazula Yeah it does... I think for me it comes from my childhood, when I was allways told that I HAVE to socially connect if I want to be succesfull in life (My mum must have thought I'd rather not want to, than actually trying but not being succesfull). Having been branded with this attitude I allways was in fear of not being included.... This changed quite a bit over the last years. I am now very good in connecting myself and making others WANT to spend time with me...

One might think "Great, problem solved!"... But yeah, no... '^.^

Just filling my organizer with so many activitys, others would like me to join them in, that there are no time slots left for me or even my problems that need to get handled... I currently try to solve this by reducing again the amount of contacts I have. Dunno if this will work out in the end, tho. Cause while doing so, I still just keep making new contacts >.<

avazula

08:57

@dhein I feel you, pal. I was raised the same way. My mother was kept from bringing friends at home and she suffered from it a lot.

@dhein As long as you're not exhausted!

dhein

@avazula I am :/

avazula

@dhein oh no :(

dhein

Its still bearable. But I feel for like 3~4 months already how it keeps getting more and more. I think 1~2 more months and it will start being too much. So yeah... having a deadline when it better should be solved, satisfies my autist within... but makes the stress I experience it self not that much better x'D

CaldeiraG

09:19

@AJ xD

avazula

Hey there @MrHeliose! Welcome to the awkward silence :)

@dhein yeah, I understand. I hope you don't burn yourself out. I almost did at the end of 2019. Health is everything :p

Tinkeringbell

@dhein Put your me-time in the planner too :)

And it's okay to say that you have other stuff to do ;)

CaldeiraG

I saw a :( so here's an :) hope your day is good - Smile Bot :p

Ælis

@ava So, I asked a coworker of mine (woman, around the same age as me but working in a different field) and she said that 6-8% is really the minimum. 10% is good and 15% is very nice (nb: these numbers apply to Juniors, not seniors) (cc: @Tink @EmC @scohe @Rain in case you are curious ^^)

CaldeiraG

i've been spending way too much time on Reddit

Tinkeringbell

09:23

@Ælis Yes! I was curious. That's nice to know :)

MrHeliose

@avazula Hello, just stalking here, nothing more :D

Ælis

@MrHeliose Welcome in TAS, new stalker :p

Tinkeringbell

@CaldeiraG Get back to work!

Ælis

@Tinkeringbell Yep, maybe you can use that next time you'll ask for a raise :)

avazula

@Ælis yay :)

MrHeliose

09:24

thx i guess ^^

CaldeiraG

@Tinkeringbell Currently setting up some ESP8266 so this is taking a while :)

Tinkeringbell

@CaldeiraG Ahh.

I should at least make a small configuration change today, so I can say that I did something tomorrow :P

avazula

@Ælis My coworker (5years older, arrived 6 months before me, same level and skills) had his first interview about 3 months after he arrived and got no raise. He has his interview planned a month before mine this year so I guess he'll have something and he said he'll tell me how much. I'm not sure I'll have a lot (or anything, really) because by the time I get the interview I'd have been in this company for 10 months.

CaldeiraG

@Tinkeringbell :)

Ælis

@avazula Having a raise after 3 months since indeed unlikely, but having one after 10 months is really douable IMO. In any case, you should definitively be asking for something, even if it's just for the sake of asking. I understand if you don't want to ask for 15% more, but maybe try asking for 10%? But remember, it's a negociation. So if they say "ok" after your first offer, it means that you have asked for too little

Tinkeringbell

09:29

So I just turned on AGDQ for background noise... and there's someone on a run that's going to take almost 9 hours?!

Belle

Morning

JAD

what game?

Tinkeringbell

Final Fantasy VII(I?)

Something like that :)

@Belle Good morning!

JAD

oh yeah

that's a long run

Tinkeringbell

Long enough to start buffering... :/

Belle

09:35

I like my new job :) they actually let me work from home when I'm sick

avazula

@Tinkeringbell Final Fantasy?

Oh I didn't see your message haha

Tinkeringbell

@avazula Yep, 8 :)

XD

avazula

@Belle When sick? I'd call a good company someone who doesn't let you work while sick! :o

Belle

In my old job they forced me to use PTO. I could also call in sick, but they used that system where they multiply the amount of times you're sick with the amount of days, so it would be really bad for me.

avazula

o_o

Tinkeringbell

09:38

@Belle Waait... I thought you were Dutch too?

avazula

is it a country thing? Because that doesn't sound legal

Tinkeringbell

America gets to do that...

avazula

yea but, NL?

Ælis

@Belle If your last job didn't let you do that, they were idiot. Why would they take the risk of letting other employee catch what you had???

Tinkeringbell

I don't think so, no, unless you're on a zero-hour based contract, I think... but then it also wouldn't be PTO, just unpaid leave.

Belle

09:39

@Ælis It's a chronic thing, not contagious.

avazula

@Tinkeringbell those are a thing in the NL too?

Tinkeringbell

@avazula Yes, mostly for things like retail or other service oriented jobs, where you work with schedules based on whether or not it's going to be busy or not...

Ælis

@Belle Well then, they were just a**-hole people. Plus, if you are more efficiant working from home, I don't see why they wouldn't let you do that

Tinkeringbell

So they can call extra people in when there's a big event/sale/suddenly everyone wants new plants/lunch...

avazula

o_o

dhein

09:41

@avazula Yeah, trying all I currently can to avoid that. :)

Belle

I suffer from a form of IBS. It doesn't happen often, maybe once a month or so. It's muscle spasms and I feel incredibly sick when it does happen. It passes in a few hours generally.

Tinkeringbell

@Belle Working from home is definitely nice then, especially if it allows for a bit more flexible hours!

dhein

@Tinkeringbell Well I just started using a physical planner beginning of this year. Maybe it changes, when I physically write it down. But before I tried it already when my planner was just in my memory. Problem was, no matter how much aware I was that I need this time for myself, when been asked to join someone....

Belle

If one happens, there's a high likelihood of another one happening later in the day. I'm immediately able to work after them passing though. It's like a switch gets flipped. From sick to my stomach to completely fine.

dhein

I just canceled that me-time the moment someone asked if I had time at that point, due to the fear of missing out. It made me somewhat anxious to not say yes to whom ever was requesting something >.<

Tinkeringbell

09:46

@dhein Hmm, makes sense... hopefully the physical planner helps!

Belle

@dhein Physical planners are great! In fact, any physical representation of data is great, even if you think it's all in your head. Minds are always a tad fuzzy.

@Tinkeringbell And indeed, I am Dutch. They weren't allowed to refuse me calling in sick, but they could retaliate by not giving me a raise etc

Tinkeringbell

Ugh, that's a very bad company!

Glad to hear you're someplace better now.

Belle

Yep! They sent out email reminders regularly over concerns about people calling in sick on Mondays on average more often than Tues-Fri. It's a company that doesn't work weekends, so I think that's logical...

Tinkeringbell

Yeah, unless you can call in sick on Saturdays :P

Belle

Exactly! All 2+ day sicknesses starting on the weekend would be reported on Mondays too, so of course Mondays would get more reports on average.

I didn't realize how bad that place was until I left

dhein

09:51

@Belle Tho, the point is, I usually was aware, that I was disregarding me-time when accepting other requests. Anyways. Having to physically cross out "me-time" from my planner makes me maybe more aware of actively harming myself and maybe makes me reconsider that... Good idea, I just will give it a try :)

@Tinkeringbell Yeah, thanks for mentioning it :)

Tinkeringbell

@dhein Crossing stuff out? You do know how ugly that looks, right? :P

dhein

@Tinkeringbell Yes :D Didn't want to put it that way, but thats actually the most promising point of why it might work out x'D

Tinkeringbell

@dhein :D That's why paper stuff works for me: I don't like crossing stuff out. So I take more time/care writing things down in the first place, make less mistakes, and also stick to plans/lists better :D

CaldeiraG

made a post on Reddit and got 50+ upvotes out of the sudden, gotta be happy about internet points :p

Tinkeringbell

I made one on Imgur that reached 80, I was happy about that too... I understand!

Belle

09:56

I reached 500 updoots on a reddit post recently. I'm da boss.

Untill the bigger boss comes in ... :P

CaldeiraG

it boosted my karma which has been sitting around 15 before and got an account since 2015

Ælis

@dhein What I do for the kind of issue you are having is making rules: No more than one big chores per workday. Not more than two important meeting (one in the morning, one in the afternoon) in the same day (and, if possible, try to make them on seperate day). No more than one social thing per week. Not two "big day" next to each other. Etc... Once you know the numbers that works for you, I find it easier to ballance things out and avoid exhaustion. But yeah, I don't have the FOMO

Ælis

10:13

Things I should now know: other people meetings never finish on time (thus, I should avoid planning meeting just after another meeting)

avazula

@Ælis Amen

Belle

I still find it weird that when I tried leaving my previous (bad) company, all my colleagues were like "your new place is never going to be as good as this place". I wonder why that is.

avazula

@Belle huh. Maybe they were trying to convince themselves? xD

Ælis

^that

Belle

Hmm, that sounds plausible

Ælis

10:24

@Belle Or they were all healty cis white men who didn't see any problem with the company (who was, otherwise, toxic for anyone who wasn't a healty cis white men)?

Belle

@Ælis That's also a possibility. Just about everyone else ticked all of those boxes. Except maybe 2-3 others, who also struggled.

Thinking back, everyone who told me that definitely ticked all those boxes.

Ælis

@Belle I'm not surprise. People who doesn't face an oppression are often very blind about those things. I know that, even if I don't want to, I'm kind of blind toward racial discrimination (I'm working on myself to try to see it, but it's harder than when the specific discrimination directly slape you in the face)

CaldeiraG

I have a big problem, apparently the website to import my board onto the Arduino IDE is blocked :\

And there is no reliable alternatives

avazula

@Ælis I watched a video yesterday where a woman was talking about the issues men face because of patriarchy and sexism. On one hand I think it'll help to get men to engage in feminism, OTOH she said they were oppressed and I was like "mmh, they sure suffer from it, but they're not the ones oppressed by sexism".

Patriarchy hurts everybody but men getting hurt is about collateral damage, not intentional hurt as it is for women. Now, it sucks that they suffer too. But that didn't seem quite fair. But heh, if that helps getting them fighting for equality :)

I knew what to expect anyway, since she started by "let's get men join the fight not for feminism but for equality" xD

Ælis

10:40

@avazula Oh dear x)

JAD

@avazula I thought feminism was for equality? Some people seem to conflate it with retribution

avazula

@JAD Exactly! But so many people think of it as the will for women to overpower men, probably because of the representation in media

Ælis

@avazula Yeah, men get hurt in the process. But they benefice so much from it that it's kind of ridiculus to compare both

JAD

@avazula I'm sure there is a non-zero amount of women that do feel that way

Ælis

So far, my current meeting has been pospone for 45 minutes because my coworker is stuck in another meeting. It's not such a big deal, but I'm afraid we won't have a room to do your meeting afterward (I had only save the room for one hour)

avazula

10:45

@Ælis Ugh. Meetings.

:p

Ælis

@avazula Well, this one is "fine" meeting. It's only with one coworker and it's for me to give him work, so, has I said, it's a fine meeting for me :p

I do hate meetings with too many people, though. And also meeting with my manager. They are stressful

(the meetings, not my manager)

Belle

Yesterday I read some stories by people who were done transitioning. They explained how people treated them differently because of their perceived gender. Nearly all trans women reported being taken less seriously than when they were perceived as men, and trans men reported the opposite. Interesting enough trans women said that everyone, men and women, because more at ease around them, while trans men reported the opposite.

dhein

@Tinkeringbell Well usually my paper stuff is very scatchy and criss cross with a lot of crossing out. But a friend made me an Handwritten organizer where she took an plain pages notice book and draw all the lines with different colours for each days field and with different styls and it looks so beautiful... So thats a diferent matter and an perfect opportunity :)

@Ælis Well, I had an kinda similiar system I once established. But when I did, I had no considerations about social activitys cause back then I wouldn't have considered it ever being a thing for me. Now all this interfered with my routines as they were not covering social activity and hence I disregarded them...

Ælis

@Belle Yep, I had read so similar things in the past. That's why I never really understand why anyone assigned male at birth would want to transition and be seen as a woman. But I don't suffer that much from dysphoria, so that's probably why I don't really understand

Mithical

@Belle (pssst, pro tip: include the space in "trans woman" etc; omitting it is a tactic often used by TERFs to deligitimize them by marking them as an entirely separate category)

dhein

10:51

I will have to consider this when having found the time to reestablish it. And the limitting the amount of big events is a good point I will aswell involve when doing that

thanks :)

avazula

@Mithical Really? That's awful o_o I had no idea. Thanks for the info Mith!

Mithical

:)

Belle

@Mithical Oh thank you, I didn't know that. I can't edit anymore, but I'll try to keep that in mind in the future. I'll blame it on being Dutch for now. Our language has a(n in)famous lack of spaces.

avazula

@Belle I can edit if you want me to

Belle

@avazula I think that would be the nice thing to do. Thanks ava :)

avazula

10:56

@Belle sure :)

Mithical

twitter.com/FaithNaff/status/1213582106846203909?s=20

Belle

@avazula I think the problem is that feminine traits are considered worth less in the patriarchy, and that is damaging for both men and women, but by definition more damaging for women.

Perhaps that's where the problem @Ælis mentions arises as well. Trans women, even when perceived as male, have their feminine traits and suffer more then cis men already. I think the idea is that transition reduces suffering caused my dysphoria more than it increases suffering from sexism, due to already suffering from sexism.

But that's just a guess on my part

Tinkeringbell

@dhein Oh wow! That sounds like so much work to make, and soo pretty!

Belle

A flock of jackdaw (they look like small crows or ravens) seem to have taken a liking to my front yard. Guess I live in the creepy house now.

MrHeliose

11:25

(brief intervention before a long silence) @Belle the biggest problem men have with feminism is the expend it take. Most of them will agree that consideration/salary difference is a big issue (issue that ony women have). But when it's about social pressure, most men will disagree because men got the same amount of problem as women here but men's problems are not as well represented as women's one. So putting effort on social pressure using feminism, create imballance and that's what scared them.

dhein

@Tinkeringbell Yeah... They said, they have some autistic traits themself, and after having just done one for them self they were addicted to it and couldn't stop, so they made one for me aswell... I just ignored that part and am happy about such a nice touch :D

Mithical

Touching your face and feeling like you're touching somebody else is the weirdest thing ever

(novocaine, dental work)

Tinkeringbell

11:49

@MrHeliose for the last part, probably yes. Trans gender isn't just about 'outside' things like being able to crossdress, it can extend to your body as well (from what little I know).

Though I must admit Dutch also has the term transsexual for that, from what I've gathered here it's the same as transgender, but in Dutch there seems to be a bit of a divide between the two.

avazula

@Tinkeringbell Transsexual isn't used in English nor in French, at least. In France that's how we used to call trans people back when being trans gender was considered a mental illness.

@MrHeliose since gender is a cultural/societal construction based on stereotypes of what should men and women be, I don't know. If gender wasn't a thing, I guess we wouldn't have trans people of any gender (emby, women, men ...) ... since it wouldn't mean anything to be a man/woman/sth else anymore. But I don't think gender will disappear any time soon (sadly?)

JAD

@avazula well, at very least biology will keep imposing certain differences

And I don't think that the influence of those differences will ever disappear from gender

avazula

@JAD But that's exactly the thing with gender: it isn't more based on those biological differences (e.g. "you have breasts so you're of category A"), than on the stereotypes that come with it ("you have breasts and you're from category A so you're supposed to want to expose it because people from cat A want to look sexy").

And trying to put people in 2 categories based on how they look like is extremely violent and rude given the proportion of people who are born with attributes of both categories or none.

Tinkeringbell

@avazula yeah, I know to at least not use that one in English :)

avazula

@Tinkeringbell :)

JAD

12:06

Ok, that's a specific interpretation of gender. You could also look at say the "traditional role" of the woman in a family and deduce that it's at least partially influenced by biology: The woman carries the baby, so the woman cares (primarily) for the baby after birth.

(Note, this doesn't necessarily mean that this is how I personally see gender stereotypes, all I'm trying to point out that there are undeniably biological difference that have social impacts)

avazula

That's a really interesting conversation, and once again at how civil we can remain at discussing sensitive topics in TAS :)

JAD

If you want me to shut up, please say so :)

avazula

no not at all haha

I was sincere

JAD

Note for example some (current) practicalities in the process of making babies: It requires two different "roles" in the process. I don't think it's impossible in the near future to replace some of that with technology, but for the time being that'll have its social impacts as well.

Belle

Start rant. I left my headphones at work, because I assumed I'd be working there today, but I'm not so I don't have my comfy headphones here right now. Rant over. Brb grabbing my bed headphones.

avazula

12:12

@JAD I understand what you mean and see how biological differences may impact the social categories we use for people. However, I don't think we should, and that's my whole point: I think assuming things from people based on how their body looks like is extremely rude and that we should definitely abandon this habit.

For instance, you used that example: "The woman carries the baby, so the woman cares (primarily) for the baby after birth."

Not only it leaves out trans men who give birth (because not all parents who give birth are women, since woman is the social category), but it also leaves out fathers who want to be as involved in the baby's healthcare as their partner, and it assumes that women must care for the baby the most

(and if you're a carrierist mom you're therefore a monster for leaving your child to a babysitter but no one thinks that's wrong if the "primarily caring parent" is a man because men provide for the household and women clean it).

@JAD That's so bad, we have this great biology channel in French that just released an episode on auto-birthing ... I'll see if it had English subtitles added, I think you might like it.

Now of course that's not for tomorrow :p

oh shoot there is no subtitles available :(

Tinkeringbell

@avazula Hmm. I think the argument was that some gender roles evolved from that biology (you carried the baby for nine months, you gave birth, you need rest so you can sleep all day and care for baby on the times you wake up while your partner brings you food) and you just confirmed that :P

avazula

@Tinkeringbell Of course! I think JAD and I think the same way :)

@Belle oh no :(

@Tink "sleep all day" doesn't seem right to describe parenthood though :p

be it for mothers or fathers

Belle

I think what the two of you are saying is that sex and gender are two different things, were sex is a biological thing and gender is a social construct. Some things we do are dictated by our sex and others by gender. We can challenge the gender ones.

Tinkeringbell

@avazula This one is interesting too... because from what I know, some people can have a pretty big disconnect in their own minds about what they look like and what they should look like, and the assumptions that go with it... so even if everyone stopped doing that to others, I think people will still do it to themselves (which should be fine but doesn't solve the problem of assumptions based on how bodies look like)...

Belle

I mean, you need a uterus to grow a baby. That's biological and cannot be changed*. You don't need anything in particular to care for a baby.

Tinkeringbell

12:19

@avazula Isn't that why we get pregnancy leave and a nurse to help out for a few days after the baby is born? There's also those baby cards that specifically mention you can visit at a specific time, because the rest of the day mom and baby are resting!

JAD

So a lot of our gender stereotypes have their origin in simpler times, where living life was a matter of life and death, and so forth. Evolution has a big hand in how this develops. That's going more and more out of the window as we get more developed. So where the biological differences become less impactful, we still have those social constructs embedded.

For one part, the social/gender part is lagging behind, but I also think we are not yet far enough to completely remove/ignore any distinction. And that's not necessarily bad, there are definitely steps to take before we hit that wall. …

Tinkeringbell

@Belle Patience. Caring for a baby requires a lot of patience. And money, and diapers, and some kind of milk (be it powdered or breast)....

JAD

@Tinkeringbell fyi, men can lactate

Belle

@Tinkeringbell That's not restricted to a particular sex or gender though ;)

JAD

(just need a bit more help :P )

avazula

12:21

@Tinkeringbell I guess that as long as it's only about looks, although it is really hurtful to have body dismorphia or gender disphoria, that's not something that could be changed by the society. Behavioral expectations, on the other hand ... well, these can go haha

Tinkeringbell

@avazula I do wonder how often people tie those two together though!

(body dismorphia and behavioral expectations)

avazula

@JAD > we are not yet far enough to completely remove/ignore any distinction. And that's not necessarily bad

I completely agree... as long as you can choose to reflect those distinctions regardless of your body! :)

Tinkeringbell

But I'm supposed to be developing software, not undertaking psychology research XD

JAD

@Tinkeringbell ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

arent we all?

Belle

@Tinkeringbell Are you my boss sending me hints?

Tinkeringbell

12:23

@JAD Yeah but I have one of those annoying 'fix tracebacks' tasks so I need to fix a few each day so I can claim I made some progress? :P

avazula

@Tinkeringbell Idk. I have severe body dismorphia myself and it suuuucks (unrelated to gender in any way, my body just changed way too much these last couple of years)

@Belle gasps

I often wonder how you guys manage to chat at work. Do your coworkers know? Do they frown upon it? Are you ashamed of it? I feel guilty about it for sure, but what about you?

JAD

@Tinkeringbell I still have a y2k-type bug on my desk, but by the time I'll have time for it, it'll've fixed itself till January 2021.

Tinkeringbell

Yeah... I'm now just randomly wondering but... there's been a whole push here towards e.g. changing how morbidly obese people see themselves. The one store I like buying clothes from now has inspirational quotes and interviews in their catalogue, for example, where people talk about 'just taking up the space you need on public transport' for example.

You could say that they're trying to fix people that are unhappy with their body, by having them accept their body better through throwing out certain behavioral expectations?

Belle

@avazula I'm in a particular corner of the office where no one can see my left screen, so I don't think anyone knows. But I know most of my coworkers are in chats too, so I don't think it's frowned upon. A few have whatsapp open on their computers all day.

Tinkeringbell

It's not really as serious as dysmorphia (you probably can't fix that with an inspirational quote/interview and more self-acceptance)... but makes me wonder....

JAD

12:26

@avazula I sit all the way in the corner, so yeah :D

avazula

Darn, so we're all people hidden in corners then :p

Belle

And now I work from home, so absolutely no one except for the cats can see my screen

avazula

@Belle now the cats are judging you

JAD

and there are definitely times where I think I should've browsed a bit less, and done a bit more

but so far my boss is happy with me, so eh

Belle

@avazula I'm pretty sure they always do that

JAD

12:28

otoh, annual raise time is this month, so I guess we'll see

Tinkeringbell

It's definitely a bit worse for me when I work from home, as I'm more easily distracted and have no co-workers around. Generally though, I make sure to have tests/a build running on one screen and chat on the other and no-one minds as that's pretty much idle time anyways.

And corner desks, yes.

Belle

@JAD eh, perhaps, but you need distractions too

avazula

@JAD yeah, I try to stick to that mojo, but imposter syndrom eventually kicks in :p

JAD

@Belle Oh, I don't think we are expected to be productive 100% of the time. But still

My work involves quite a bit of thinking and problem solving. That shit is exhausting

Tinkeringbell

So, right now, I'm going to just cover this chat with a work screen, and do some work. I'll be back in an hour or two ;)

avazula

12:29

@Tinkeringbell mmh. I see what you mean. I honestly don't know. I meant behavioral expectations as in "expected from your gender" but that's a valid point too.

@Tinkeringbell bon courage :)

Belle

My old place required us to book every hour on a particular ticket. That was fine for tickets that took multiple days, but sometimes I had a bunch of 15-30 minute tickets in a day. It got really noticeable when I spent some time browsing when doing a day of those.

JAD

heh

we work in projects that take months

Tinkeringbell

@avazula Yeah, I'm mainly trying to say that people might add certain expected gender behaviors on their own (without society doing so), just because it makes them feel better/fit better with the way they look? If that makes sense?

I was wondering if that was true, if people really did that or if I just made that up :P

JAD

Biggest project I've been involved with so far ran from january 2018 till october 2019

Belle

The place I worked before did that as well, but that was because those were billable hours. In an 8 hour day, you were only expected to book 5-6 hours on tickets. Because they understood you need to go to the bathroom, get coffee and sometimes slack off on the internet.

Tinkeringbell

12:32

And now I'm really going to run, we can finish this later :P

Belle

I'm going to do the same as @Tink. See ya later!

avazula

@Tinkeringbell I honestly don't know

Unrelated: I bought a pair of reusable ear plugs for my band practice and have been using it at work since the beginning of the week. omg I feel so much calmer now! Less chaos around me, I feel nicely isolated, I'm more focused ... that's really nice

I think my music consumption is going to drop quite a bit (I listened to music for 2 days in December)

CaldeiraG

@Belle There was a post somewhere on SO Blog that said that a developer is not expected to code more than 4 hours

And of course i can't find it because the blog is actually not a blog, no paging, search bar, etc

avazula

12:49

@CaldeiraG There's so much more to programming than actual coding though... so I'm not surprised :p

JAD

tbh, at first glance, the SO blog looks like a bunch of corporate hot air

CaldeiraG

@avazula It also refers that the other 4 hours is either searching work-related topics or not, etc

@JAD It is

in Root Access, Jan 3 at 16:12, by CaldeiraG

@Blogbot These blog posts are just noise to make people click and click

since they're using the blog for announcing changes now, everyone is more aware and they need to keep interaction there up so there ya go

Rainbacon

@Ælis interesting. Also, good luck!

Mithical

@avazula any particular reason for that, out of curiosity?

avazula

13:04

@Mithical because of the new ear plugs. I used to listen to music basically all day long because work is so noisy I had to isolate myself and all I had was some cheap headphones so I would listen to music. Now I can switch from listening to music and having my ear plugs on, which is nice because although music is nice for debugging, I think it's more distracting when writing the actual code

Mithical

Ah, I see.

avazula

:)

I still sing like crazy in my car

Mithical

My music consumption dropped as well but that's because my earbuds starting pining for the fjords.

avazula

@Mithical what does that mean?

Mithical

They died.

avazula

13:06

oh no :(

(is that an English saying?)

Mithical

Dead Parrot sketch

The "Dead Parrot Sketch", alternatively and originally known as the "Pet Shop Sketch" or "Parrot Sketch", is a sketch from Monty Python's Flying Circus. A satire on poor customer service, it was written by John Cleese and Graham Chapman and initially performed in the show's first series, in the eighth episode ("Full Frontal Nudity", which first aired 7 December 1969).The sketch portrays a conflict between disgruntled customer Mr Praline (played by Cleese) and a shopkeeper (Michael Palin), who argue whether or not a recently purchased "Norwegian Blue" parrot is dead. Over the years, Cleese and Palin...

avazula

ooh, okay

Journeyman Geek

@Mithical that might be seen as threatening @Tinkeringbell :D

avazula

xD

Journeyman Geek

@CaldeiraG I think someone complained. Might be me

39

Q: The Stack Overflow blog lacks findable search or pagination

There's been a push to try to move over more communication to Stack Overflow's blog. There are a few fundamental issues that seem to make it unsuitable for the task, or for that matter, any purpose at the moment There is no search. The top left link oddly enough traps you in a spiral back to t...

bug status-review design blog

dhein

13:13

Can anyone give me a quick isnight on sql syntax?

If I do something like WHERE X. name = "whatever" (note the space!) What will the impact here be?

avazula

@dhein which SQL version?

also, @JAD ^

They might be of more help than me :)

JAD

appears to be no impact

I'd've expected a syntax error, but apparently it's ok

dhein

No idea... it was an assesment for getting a 6 months trip to silicon valley xD the problem is, the assesment was so full of typos, that I dont even know if it was on purpose or not.

Darn

x'D

avazula

@JAD me too :/

JAD

I just inserted a space into a random query. Output wasn't affected

Journeyman Geek

13:16

I don't think SQL cares much about whitespace

JAD

(and it was a column name where the table identifier was really required just to ambiguity

Journeyman Geek

(or case in some cases)

JAD

@JourneymanGeek that depends on version. We have two db servers, one is case sensitive. Other isn't. It's kinda annoying

avazula

querying time seems stable too

dhein

Would have loved so much to go to silicon valley and getting a training there for 6 months while still getting my full salary '^.^ But given that I code only C and the full test was about Java, I missed my chance probably :D

avazula

13:18

@dhein You'd have said C++, I'd think you had all your chances :p

JAD

@avazula if you're interested in that, you should look at the execution plan

dhein

Well.... I also can code a little c++ so I think I might not even have been worst in that assesment... But since its primarly plain C I am still not too sure >.<

avazula

@JAD they're strictly the same

JAD

there you have it

(we could probably have found it in the grammar)

Journeyman Geek

13:33

@JAD I was thinking the ALLCAPS keywords

that folks are taught to do for readability, but isn't often strictly needed :D

Tinkeringbell

interpersonal.stackexchange.com/a/23889/1599 < could probably use some eyes :)

JAD

@JourneymanGeek syntax highlighting >> capitalisation

Journeyman Geek

@JAD when you have it, sure :D

CaldeiraG

14:10

@JourneymanGeek oh cool :) looking forward for it

Journeyman Geek

@CaldeiraG oh already posted :D

39

Q: The Stack Overflow blog lacks findable search or pagination

There's been a push to try to move over more communication to Stack Overflow's blog. There are a few fundamental issues that seem to make it unsuitable for the task, or for that matter, any purpose at the moment There is no search. The top left link oddly enough traps you in a spiral back to t...

bug status-review design blog

Belle

14:29

Hmm.... I just received my course materials. The book is from 2016, but still references "chat programs like MSN".

avazula

lol

Rainbacon

When I was in school (about 7 years ago) I had a textbook that came with floppy disks

Belle

I think I haven't had a CD drive in my PC for longer than that XD

Ælis

@Rainbacon Oo

@Rainbacon I don't think I ever hold a floppy disk in my hand x)

CaldeiraG

@JourneymanGeek i saw xD what i meant is looking forward to get these changes done to the blog since it's on status-review

Journeyman Geek

14:34

@Belle heh, I intentionally didn't install one on my last two PCs :D

my dad has one, but his is a prebuilt dell

Belle

I owned a stack of floppies as tall as myself full of games at some point :) I was 5 or so, so not that impressive but still

Journeyman Geek

@Belle I'm trying to talk myself into throwing out the disks I accumilated ._.

Belle

@JourneymanGeek Same for my last build as well. And the laptop I owned before that was a thin one so they took the CD drive out so it could be thinner.

Journeyman Geek

@Belle oh, I build desktops

and I have the bays.

I just don't use em :D

actually current PC is all M.2

Belle

Same in my desktop XD

Rainbacon

14:36

I also have a desktop full of empty bays

Belle

I've got exactly 1 bay in use out of 7

avazula

@JourneymanGeek you live in Server Bay Area too? :p

Journeyman Geek

@avazula actually, current case is small

my last PC was a cosair 600T

techpowerup.com/review/corsair-graphite-600t

Belle

15:21

Time to eat my chocolate tree

Picture fairly stolen from the internet

Tinkeringbell

O chocolate tree, O chocolate tree...

Belle

Do parrots like chocolate?

Tinkeringbell

This one does, but gets hives if she eats too much :(

Belle

Oh no :(

scohe001

@Tinkeringbell well it's a good thing that there's no such thing as "too much" chocolate then, right? :D

Tinkeringbell

15:33

Oh, I do eat and I always regret it... :P

scohe001

So I guess you could say that you're...always itching to eat more chocolate?

Tinkeringbell

Yep!

XD

Belle

15:54

I was afraid starting at a real university would be too easy, considering my work experience and my time in college, but I'm kind of glad it's not. The first chapter of the first course is very interesting already!

I peeked ahead and the programming language of the course is Python. I never used that before.

avazula

@Belle Be careful not to be bitten S (<- that's a snake)

El'endia Starman

Wooooo Python!

I think it's a fairly easy language to learn.

Belle

@avazula Uh-oh. I'll be careful :P

I just fear I'm going to struggle to memorize the syntax. I have a hard enough time remembering what syntax is C# and what is TypeScript. And worse, language 'quirks'!

I think there's a reasonable chance that we don't have to learn language oddities though, like TypeScript always being pass by value except for functions (seriously, who thought that was a good idea?)

avazula

16:14

haha

I just checked ES2020 new features

really not a fan of JS/TS but hey, can't escape your fate :p

Belle

I kind of rolled into it. Applied for a job, only knowing some basic java and they thought me the ASP.NET stack. Now I'm stuck with it XD

I'm making the exercises on paper and I'm also making a summary on paper. I'll digitalize my summary on the computer afterwards. I hate writing, but it helps remember. I hope that will work for me.

ankii

If cat UnixExecutable on Mac gives unknown characters and too many of them, can I assume that I'd never know what it actually does?

Belle

@ankii Does not compute

scohe001

@ankii executables are usually binaries. You'll need a de-compiler if you want to have a chance of reading it: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Decompiler

ankii

It is not really a malware, running it launches it another application in the game.app wrapper which launches the original windows game using WINE.

it prints out path/to/application ; exit; Keeps running till I finish the game and then quits when I close the game.

@scohe001 okay any hints on which language de-complier to use, or is it automatically done ?

It is Mach-O if that's relevant

scohe001

16:33

@ankii not a clue. But there are whole PhD's focusing on decompiling, so I'm sure you'll find a lot of info online. I'm not sure TAS is the best place for that kind of tech talk tho ;)

ankii

I think I'd use Ghidra, or JEB or IDA

Extroverted Main Man

17:12

0

Q: How to gently ask friends to stop being so self-deprecating?

I'm in a highly ranked science PhD program, but my department has this odd self-deprecating culture where conversations can quickly turn into who least deserves to be in the program and who sucks the most at science. I especially have a couple of friends who cannot stop putting themselves down a...

united-states coworkers self-esteem

Rainbacon

@Belle Python's not too bad from a syntax standpoint, though I do think it's odd that the indentation of your code matters

scohe001

That's true. I think Python is the only language I've used where whitespace actually plays a part in the syntax (outside of the Whitespace language lol)

El'endia Starman

You should check out Befunge and/or ><>. :P

Rainbacon

@El'endiaStarman I want to say I wrote a befunge interpreter once

El'endia Starman

It's fun innit? :D

Rainbacon

17:25

Yeah, I love writing esoteric interpreters

That's part of why I love programming in Haskell so much

El'endia Starman

I made a similar language a few years ago named Minkolang. Alas, I made the available operations too powerful so there's hardly ever any need for spatial shenanigans.

Rainbacon

What even is this language

El'endia Starman

@Rainbacon esolangs.org/wiki/Minkolang

Rainbacon

I'm not quite sure i understand the layers

El'endia Starman

17:41

Basically, you can think of a 2D block of code like Befunge as extending in the X and Y dimensions. In Befunge, if the program counter is on a space, it keeps going in the same direction. In Minkolang, it instead "falls" to the next layer, moving through the Z dimension.

Analogous to Minkowskian space, such as the one we live in and experience, where everything travels at the speed of light. Light itself travels through space (X, Y, Z) at the speed of light and so does not travel through time. Conversely, an object that's not moving at all travels entirely through time. As an object's speed through space increases, it travels more slowly through time, hence time dilation.

Rainbacon

How exactly are subsequent layers in the Z dimension set up though? If I'm writing a Minkolang program, how can I write a second layer to it?

El'endia Starman

@Rainbacon esolangs.org/wiki/Minkolang#Layered_.22Hello_world.21.22

That example has three layers.

Rainbacon

Are layers just anything separated by a space?

El'endia Starman

Has to be separated by \n$$$\n.

Rainbacon

Ah, ok. That's where I was getting confused

El'endia Starman

17:53

Docs aren't the greatest and I haven't touched this language for a few years, so...

Rainbacon

It's certainly an interesting language

El'endia Starman

Thanks. :)

Rainbacon

I've often thought of writing a language, I really should spend some time actually doing that at some point

El'endia Starman

18:24

Writing a language is fun for sure and also gives you better appreciation of and insight into "real" languages.

Especially if you make one that works like a mainstream language. Operator precedence is a pretty interesting exercise.

Em C

21:23

→ 49 messages moved to Trash

yay hnq

scohe001

woot

Em C

it's making up for how quiet it was over the holidays :)

scohe001

"The Awkward Noisy HNQ"

Nemesis of The Awkward Silence :p

Lmao the sass is real

Em C

hahah yeah

Rainbacon

Today I had a 1 on 1 with the client manager, and she told me she wished she knew I was looking for a job so she could have offered me one with the client. I'm an awkward person with imposter syndrome, so I'm really confused as to how to handle having so many people tell me they really like working with me /help

scohe001

21:40

Aww that's really sweet! Also score for you. If things ever go south at the current job now you've got a backup ;)

Rainbacon

I have 2 backups if my soon to be new job doesn't work out: my current client and my current company

But also I'm not equipped to deal with this much positivity

scohe001

Well you always have the nightly news to balance you out if you really want lol

Em C

@Rainbacon that's great \o/

Mithical

s/balance/completely tip the other direction

Em C

my tactic is something like "aw well geez thanks it was great working with you too mumble mumble"

Mithical

21:45

3

Extroverted Main Man

23:37

0

Q: Girlfriend indicated that she wants to pleasure me orally, what is the etiquette associated with this?

My girlfriend and I have been having sex for a while now, but I guess she wants to start experimenting in bed. I'm not sure if it's because she's bored or if it's because she just wants to let me experience more things with her. When we were intimate earlier she moved as if to perform oral sex, b...

relationships united-states politeness sex personal-hygiene

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