The Awkward Silence

Ya know, it's usually someone with a few hundred rep and no great amounts of rep on other SEs which has these RADICAL ideas about things they can fix about the system

Rainbacon

I think you'd be about the most qualified 300 rep candidate that there could be

M.A.R. ಠ_ಠ

Like requiring comments with downvotes.

But the most delicious part is how people can be mean to them.

El'endia Starman

4:14 PM

@Rainbacon Lol, true, I'll accept that...

I still don't think I'm qualified to mod IPS though. ;)

Rainbacon

That's fair

Then again, I don't know if I'm qualified, but I'm running

M.A.R. ಠ_ಠ

You're qualified.

— M.A.R.

El'endia Starman

If it's any consolation, I saw that the three candidates were Ælis, Rainbacon, and Avazula, and went "How am I supposed to pick??".

"Best candidate" and "worst candidate" are equally hard questions here. :P

M.A.R. ಠ_ಠ

Or rather, how your preferences should be

Whichever is more of an ice cream fan

Sid

@El'endiaStarman Whoever gives you candy, vote for them. :P

M.A.R. ಠ_ಠ

4:19 PM

^ Don't nitpick, that usage is correct

@Sid *the most

Rainbacon

I suppose I could bribe you by offering you ice cream the next time you venture down to the city

M.A.R. ಠ_ಠ

Also half-jinx

Rainbacon

Though that may be unethical

El'endia Starman

Or rather, unfair. A trip down to the city is a lot easier than going overseas... :P

Sid

@Rainbacon It would be, only if your competitors found out. :P

Ælis

4:21 PM

@Rainbacon I'm glade you are feeling that too. I guess whoever win will have to remember that mods are only humans and can't be perfect

Mithrandir

Wait, who's human? *looks around*

Rainbacon

@Ælis Yeah, that's true

Unless I get elected, in which case we will have ~~a robot~~ another human

El'endia Starman

Bah, humans! What're they good for?

Ælis

Question to all the mods around here: does the way other user treat you change a lot when you become mod? Does they become far less nicer to you just because you are "the authority"?

M.A.R. ಠ_ಠ

Human Being, Los Angeles, CA

101 1

@Ælis What, no way

The mod changes more, in fact

I'd probably not dare say 75 percent of what I say if I were a mod.

Or not. I'm not a mod, can't test.

Mithrandir

4:26 PM

@Ælis Really depends on the user. Some get rude and won't listen to a thing you say, others treat every word you say as divine. On meta, you certainly become more of an "authority". And then there's @M.A.R.ಠ_ಠ, who changes absolutely nothing and is just disrespectful to everyone :P

But, yes, as M.A.R. pointed out, the new mod does change the way they communicate a lot. You have to remember that you're setting an example - you're a representative of the site, and have to expect people to emulate you.

M.A.R. ಠ_ಠ

You're just jealous of my charisma

El'endia Starman

@Ælis Somewhat difficult for me to answer since I became a mod 7+ years ago shortly after the private beta of Christianity.SE. That said, in general, I think the answer is mostly no. Nasty people direct their nastiness at mods and high-rep users and kind people are kind to everyone.

M.A.R. ಠ_ಠ

It also gets funnier to read meta posts where people assume 3k/10k users are mods and insult mods. @Ælis

Ælis

@Mithrandir But that is somehow already the case when you are a dedicated community mod, isn't it?

M.A.R. ಠ_ಠ

I'm not trying to make it appear intimidating, it does that all by itself.

El'endia Starman

4:30 PM

@Ælis There's a difference between having stature and having authority.

M.A.R. ಠ_ಠ

@Ælis Look at it this way. If Mith manages as a mod, you'd definitely rock it

Mithrandir

Not quite the same, but yes, if you're an active community member involved in moderation then you'll have an easier time adjusting.

Sid

@M.A.R.ಠ_ಠ lol

Ælis

@El'endiaStarman That's comforting to know, thank you :)

M.A.R. ಠ_ಠ

@Ælis Depending on site topic and especially how big it becomes, you'd have to deal with the occasional foul-mouthed teen in mod messages, but I reckon it's not such a heavy emotional load except for some active SO mods. Like Bhargav and Brad Larson

It won't be much more than the nastiness the site regular faces most of the time, which isn't much, because SE is a clean, regulated place.

El'endia Starman

4:35 PM

@El'endiaStarman A community "mod", e.g. someone who clears out review queues regularly and generally helps make the site what it is, would certainly have a certain amount of reputation (not just SE rep). Other community members are more likely to listen to and/or agree with what they say. (Stature.) That changes a little when they get the power to back up those words. (Authority.)

M.A.R. ಠ_ಠ

That reminds me

in English Language & Usage: Multi-Layered Discourse Room, yesterday, by Matt E. Эллен

en.oxforddictionaries.com has become lexico

Ælis

@M.A.R.ಠ_ಠ Well, it's a clean regulated place thanks to use :p But I see what you mean, thank you :)

El'endia Starman

Ideally, mods are effectively enforcers for the community in cases where the community can't handle it themselves (e.g. suspending users). However, mods do have the privilege of being able to say "No, this is how we're going to do it." and going against some or most of a community's intention.

Which is sometimes necessary, e.g. when leading a religious-topic site and making sure it stays academic...

M.A.R. ಠ_ಠ

@El'endiaStarman I feel like a veteran telling stories based on experience in a western

Ælis

@El'endiaStarman I don't think I ever saw this case on IPS and I hope it will keep being that way

M.A.R. ಠ_ಠ

4:39 PM

Do you happen to have a badass face scar

El'endia Starman

I have behind-the-ear scars (from cochlear implants) if that counts...

M.A.R. ಠ_ಠ

It's a bit hard to keep filming from that angle but yeah, sure

scohe001

@Ælis I really like your Sandbox question by the way! It feels like it has the makings of a HNQ question though, so be careful what day and time you post it :p

M.A.R. ಠ_ಠ

19:00–01:00 a.m. my time were prime HNQ times on weekdays. This was before the recent 8-hour change though, so I dunno how it's affected by that.

You could simply search for is:q votes:15.. to get a rough idea of when is a good time to post with empirical evidence

Ælis

@scohe001 Thanks! I can definitively see it being HNQ too. I might post it on Monday, I don't want to "lose" rep because of the weekend ^^

M.A.R. ಠ_ಠ

4:46 PM

My time is UTC + 3:30.

@Ælis Actually, tomorrow might be a better time, if the biggest trough in activity is weekends

Ælis

@M.A.R.ಠ_ಠ It's not that easy because there is only one question allowed on HNQ at a given time (and once you are on HNQ, you tend to stay on it)

@M.A.R.ಠ_ಠ No, there is definitively not much activity during the weekend

M.A.R. ಠ_ಠ

@Ælis Well, you're eliminating lots of interfering factors by sorting by which questions made it to HNQ.

No, IME things don't stay in HNQ for long unless we're talking about a 200-vote post.

There shouldn't be a best 'hour' of posting, but rather, a best time of the day.

SEDE is obviously a better choice for this but I've never been a magician

Rainbacon

@M.A.R.ಠ_ಠ IPS questions tend to stay on HNQ for about 3 days

M.A.R. ಠ_ಠ

Oh? That's probably because of the one-question rule then

Rainbacon

Since we've been back on HNQ, we haven't often had more than one HNQ worthy question at a time, so once it gets there, it stays until it times out

M.A.R. ಠ_ಠ

4:51 PM

The recent system is still pretty alien to me

Rainbacon

It's less to do with the recent system, and more to do with the volume of questions we get

M.A.R. ಠ_ಠ

@Rainbacon And I'm saying that timing out didn't take more than two days, unless one of the recent changes changed something

Which wouldn't be a good thing anyway. One of the more legit complaints about HNQ is posts that stayed there forever

Rainbacon

The recent change made it so that 72 hours after a question enters HNQ, it is no longer eligible to be on HNQ.

IPS questions that get onto HNQ tend to stay for the whole 3 days because we get so few HNQ worthy questions that they never get bumped by a hotter question, and 3 days isn't long enough for their hotness to fall off

M.A.R. ಠ_ಠ

Oh, it's per site now? That'd make sense

HNQs were usually not topped by questions of the same site

Rainbacon

Each site gets to configure a maximum number of questions that can be on HNQ at a time. The global max is 5, IPS is set at 1

M.A.R. ಠ_ಠ

4:56 PM

The ones that didn't get too many votes dropped out really soon because they were replaced by another question, not necessarily from the same site

Soon meaning in a matter of hours.

IIRC it was roughly like <30 votes Q would stay for 12 hours, <100 would stay about a day to 36 hours, >100 votes would stay there for like a week.

@Rainbacon No not that. Does the question's hotness score have to topped by another of the same site?

Or a beautifully crafted question on Chem.SE would be replaced by a dumber but more popular question about Parry Hotter on SciFi?

Mumble mumble

Rainbacon

I don't believe so, but HNQs from IPS tend to get a lot of votes

and also a lot of answers

M.A.R. ಠ_ಠ

No kidding

Rainbacon

The last HNQ that IPS had got 54 upvotes and 8 answers (2 deleted) the highest of which has 72 upvotes

M.A.R. ಠ_ಠ

Anyway I still don't see why empirical evidence wouldn't be indicative of best times to ask.

@Rainbacon Well, that does sound it'd stay for two or three days, regardless of any new HNQ rules

Rainbacon

The way that IPS questions specifically interact with HNQ tends to lead to them staying on the list until they age out of it

M.A.R. ಠ_ಠ

5:03 PM

They would seem particularly attractive on the side bar, compared to HNQs of most other sites which would require some prior knowledge in a topic in a not-everyday topic

Rainbacon

Exactly

M.A.R. ಠ_ಠ

Whoa hang on

Eeps's normal questions tend to get a crazy number of views too, regardless of the HNQ thing

Rainbacon

What makes you say that?

M.A.R. ಠ_ಠ

@Rainbacon The Mr. Toxic questions, for example.

2 votes, no answers, yet 300 views?

That'd be more like 30 views elsewhere

50 if the answerers are hunting something good to answer. But 300?

This is Interpersonal Sparta!

Rainbacon

It actually has 2 answers, but both have been deleted

M.A.R. ಠ_ಠ

5:11 PM

His kick did seem pretty skillful interpersonally.

@Rainbacon Not much different than the +2.

ankiiiiiii

Hi there! Hope you're doing good!
After seeing a few put on hold or closed posts, I feel that posts which have even the slightest tint of dating or relationship advice are not received well by the mods. Am I delusional?

Ælis

@ankiiiiiii Hello here :) If you take a look here you can see that we have a lot of (still open) questions about relationship. So the question you have seen being closed have probably been due to other reason (lacking a clear goal, asking us to take a decision for the OP, etc..)

Rainbacon

I wouldn't call you delusional (that would be quite rude), but I wouldn't say that is my perspective. Do you have some examples you could point to?

M.A.R. ಠ_ಠ

@ankiiiiiii There's always a subset of questions that are going to be raining all over the place whose askers don't really know how to ask. On Physics, it'd be homework questions. On Movies, it'd be identify-this-movie questions. And here, I reckon, it's dating questions.

Rainbacon

5:27 PM

@M.A.R.ಠ_ಠ I wouldn't say that's correct either

M.A.R. ಠ_ಠ

Homework sucks. True story

Rainbacon

Dating questions are perfectly acceptable on IPS so long as they focus on the interpersonal skills involved in dating

M.A.R. ಠ_ಠ

I didn't say they aren't. I didn't actually say ANYthing.

ankiiiiiii

How do I link questions in a proper manner so as to display preview ?

M.A.R. ಠ_ಠ

I just implied if he has stats of questions related to a topic being poorly received, which are not banned in the help center, and it's not just a gut feeling, then that is usually the most prevalent reason.

Rainbacon

5:29 PM

I personally have a few well received relationship questions

M.A.R. ಠ_ಠ

@ankiiiiiii Post the link to a question or answer as a separate chat message

ankiiiiiii

1

Q: How do I set a meeting with someone who keeps rescheduling?

I met this girl at my university. We started talking and it went on for about an hour. The conversation was really good. Later, I added her on Facebook, she said "We should get a coffee sometime" (in person) and I replied "Sure, I'll message you on Facebook" with a smile. I've been trying to fix...

-2

Q: A very complicated friend that I asked out on a date

So about 8 months ago I met a girl that I liked almost instantly, I got her phone number and we started texting a lot (she lives about 100 km away in a small farming town)I eventually figured out that she liked me , but I played it cool for a couple of weeks. Eventually we admitted to each other ...

friends relationships awkward-situations introverts

M.A.R. ಠ_ಠ

interpersonal.stackexchange.com/… — What this tells me is they're doing fine though.

ankiiiiiii

5

Q: Seeking closure over someone I have unblocked but whom I learned have passed on

There was someone close to me whom I blocked for a couple of years - we used to get on really well until he confessed his feelings for me and things got messy/ ugly. Since the negative feelings have died down, I have recently unblocked him to message him with the intention to iron things out on a...

conversations friends conflicts

M.A.R. ಠ_ಠ

@ankiiiiiii First off, only the second question is poorly received. The others have a positive score. Second, I'd only jump to secondary assumptions if the close votes don't satisfactorily explain the closure. Do you feel that they don't?

ankiiiiiii

5:32 PM

Okay so by not received well I meant that they are closed right away (maybe due to annoyance ) and are not edited with not as much efforts as others are done.
I am cool and request everyone not to get heated up

M.A.R. ಠ_ಠ

I'm not heated up, just being a bit blunt

Dutch style

Anyway,

As a corollary to Rainbacon's question, are you looking to provide some information to Jake's wife, or are you primarily interested in obtaining closure from her? — Upper_Case May 20 at 21:57

@Anki On the last question, this tells me the custom close reason IPS came up with ("What should I do" is off-topic unless a specific goal is provided) is an expansion on "Unclear what you're asking", with fewer canned responses and more specific and useful guidance.

I'm not a frequent IPS user myself, I just enjoy their chat because they're cool people.

Rainbacon

Ok, I've looked at the 3 questions and though I was only involved in closing 1 of them, I think I have a good handle on what is happening

Ælis

@ankiiiiiii On much of these questions you can see that there is comment asking questions/clarification. It is true that we tend to close question that are lacking details, if you are comparing them to our recent and successful questions you might notice that they all tend to be longer

ankiiiiiii

@M.A.R.ಠ_ಠ someone with 21k says so lol

M.A.R. ಠ_ಠ

@Ælis That is a very French "longer"

@ankiiiiiii It's 21k all over SE, I have 103 rep on IPS

Ælis

5:37 PM

@M.A.R.ಠ_ಠ Well then, excuse my French :p

M.A.R. ಠ_ಠ

More specifically, accumulated rep of sites where I have more than 200 rep

Rainbacon

The main thing that I see on all 3 questions is that there are comments asking the OP to provide clarification which have yet to be addressed by the OP either through a responding comment or an edit to their post

M.A.R. ಠ_ಠ

Yes, which is exactly why people should close questions.

Mithrandir

@Ælis that's usually something people say after they swear...

ankiiiiiii

@Ælis But since you all have seen some great questions and the noob ones are just from some troubled teenager somewhere, some experience can be shared as generic advice like paracetamol :P

Rainbacon

5:39 PM

IMO the first question is very close to reopening, in fact, once we finish this chat, I will probably make a quick edit and then vote to reopen it

On the 3rd question, we are still missing an important detail, which can be seen in the comment that M.A.R. posted here.

Mithrandir

@ankiiiiiii Nothing wrong with troubled teenagers...

M.A.R. ಠ_ಠ

@Mithrandir You seem biased.

Mithrandir

I might be.

Ælis

@Mithrandir I know, I thought that was a funny joke to make :p

M.A.R. ಠ_ಠ

I take that as a yes.

Mithrandir

5:40 PM

@Ælis aha

M.A.R. ಠ_ಠ

@Ælis Well, I exhaled behind my screen

Rainbacon

The second question is a bit further from opening. It's a large block of text that is asking several different questions, many of which are "What should I do if this or that happens"

M.A.R. ಠ_ಠ

You'd know it if you were behind my screen. But you're inside it.

Mithrandir

(Sorry. I'm derailing Bacon.)

Rainbacon

I would also point out that none of the questions you've linked have had any involvement from the moderators (either in the form of comments or close votes). They were all closed by members of the community.

Now, all of this being said, IPS does tend to close a lot of questions compared to some other communities

M.A.R. ಠ_ಠ

5:43 PM

@ankiiiiiii One very important side effect of closing is stopping bad answers from coming. Giving OPs no answer, sometimes even asking them to look for professional help, is much better than useless guesses at what the problem is and extending on that, which can sometimes even be harmful

Ælis

@Rainbacon We might (I don't know) but I do know that we also tend to reopen more (that is, if the question is edited)

ankiiiiiii

@Rainbacon Okay so this makes my first message eligible for closing or being deleted wink?

@Rainbacon Agreed

M.A.R. ಠ_ಠ

There's also the fundamental misunderstanding about closure because a closing a thread sounds too much like "closing a case". People don't realize they can edit and get it reopened.

TheTinyMan

I hate the word "close" on SE for just that reason :-p

ankiiiiiii

@M.A.R.ಠ_ಠ Umm okay.. reasonable. Better have a sub-reddit for that.

M.A.R. ಠ_ಠ

5:46 PM

JESUS Were you there this whole time

TheTinyMan

Wait it says "on hold" now, did it always do that?

Rainbacon

The reason for this is that the subject matter that we deal with here is very personal, and I would say the risks associated with getting things wrong is greater. If I ask a question on Stack overflow and get a bad answer, it might crash my code, but no big deal, I can edit the code and restart. If I ask a question on IPS and get a bad answer, following the answer could potentially cause emotional harm to me or someone else

M.A.R. ಠ_ಠ

@TheTinyMan First 5 days. It didn't use to do that in prehistoric times

TheTinyMan

Who, me? Maybe! I keep starting to say things then changing my mind as someone else says it more succinctly. :-p

M.A.R. ಠ_ಠ

Thank you.

I eat succinct for breakfast.

ankiiiiiii

5:49 PM

okay... Alright .. I get it. Thank you! I better get back to language learning for my quiz tomorrow !
Bye :)

Rainbacon

Bye! Feel free to come back and ask questions about any questions that you think may have been wrongly closed. We're always happy to discuss

M.A.R. ಠ_ಠ

@ankiiiiiii Right. If SE tried to replicate other places on the internet, it'd be spreading out information, contrary to its goal of gathering it in the first place. It's much, much safer to think of posting on SE sites as trying to appeal to the grumpy professors who appeared at your dissertation.

Language quizzes. Ugh. I always hated those.

I spoke 10 times more fluently than the teacher but never got the full mark in English exams.

BBL dinner

ankiiiiiii

Psychology of language actually..
Sure Rainbacon!

M.A.R. ಠ_ಠ

That's worse

Rainbacon

6:37 PM

Just looked through all of the users that have visited the election thus far. Quite a few unfamiliar names on there

El'endia Starman

("users that have visited the election thus far" being those with Caucus badges.)

Rainbacon

Yes, it's very easy to tell with this being our first election

Ælis

@scohe001 I finally decided to not wait until monday to post my question. I was afraid I would have another question to ask by then ^^

scohe001

Lol I just saw :p

M.A.R. ಠ_ಠ

I saw first.

Ælis

6:46 PM

Already three upvote Oo Definitively HNQ material!

M.A.R. ಠ_ಠ

Saw (2004 film)

Saw is a 2004 American psychological horror-thriller film directed by James Wan in his directorial debut, and starring Cary Elwes, Danny Glover, Monica Potter, Michael Emerson, Ken Leung, Tobin Bell and Leigh Whannell. It is the first installment in the Saw franchise. In it, Elwes and Whannell portray two men who awake to find themselves chained in a large dilapidated bathroom, with one being ordered to kill the other or his family will die. The screenplay was written by Whannell, who co-created the story with Wan in their screenwriting debuts respectively. The screenplay was written in 2001, but...

Rainbacon

Lol, the upvote counter dynamically reloads, but the view count doesn't. So I see it having more upvotes than views

M.A.R. ಠ_ಠ

I didn't view it. I spiritually connected with it

Ælis

@M.A.R.ಠ_ಠ I will let other people review your edit, my English level isn't good enought to judge if this is actually an improvement or not ^^

scohe001

@M.A.R.ಠ_ಠ Ummmm actually, I didn't see a "First!" comment on the post from you, so how can I even know that you're actually telling the truth here?

M.A.R. ಠ_ಠ

6:49 PM

Aw, @Rain, you break my heart (I actually only wanted to edit the two "give them"s)

Extroverted Main Man

3

Q: How to interact with a man asking for change without giving him false hope?

I live in a big city with a lot of homeless people. When I'm on the subway, I will often see them going around asking for money, food or "just a smile." I know these people--like anyone--probably don't like being ignored and feeling invisible. However, I'm afraid to give them false hope by looki...

non-verbal-communication public-transportation

scohe001

(hopefully you read that in a super annoying valley girl voice)

Rainbacon

TBH, the two "give them's" are the reason I rejected it

M.A.R. ಠ_ಠ

They're nonstandard.

Dative case doesn't work like that.

Rainbacon

Adding in the extra "to" just sounds awkward

M.A.R. ಠ_ಠ

6:50 PM

English is awkward, then ;)

"Give them something" is okay, of course

But without "sth", "them" would have to be a direct object.

scohe001

I rejected because of some of the grammar fixes that didn't look too good (or worked either way) and the em-dashes. How could you.

M.A.R. ಠ_ಠ

"Give sth to sb"/"Give sb sth". No third alternative, and since this is a complement (not the main verb), you don't say the "Sth".

@scohe001 p_p

Rainbacon

Maybe we should ask about it on ELU

M.A.R. ಠ_ಠ

More appropriately, (╯°□°）╯︵ ┻━┻

scohe001

Lol I did like some of your changes tho. I'll probably edit them in in a sec

M.A.R. ಠ_ಠ

6:54 PM

@Rainbacon to Google!

@Rain english.stackexchange.com/a/106899/125563

It's not passive (if that would derail from the point)

And that's John Lawler, basically the Jon Skeet of EL . . . Wait a minute

I'm noticing a pattern.

scohe001

@M.A.R. I feel like it's the difference between "I'll grant you 3 wishes" and "I'll grant to you 3 wishes." Both are "grammatically" correct, but it's just a style choice (and the genies all have a clear preference)

Rainbacon

I think the issue here is actually that the verb give is being used with the helper have

M.A.R. ಠ_ಠ

@scohe001 What you said is correct, but you can't ever say "*three wishes I'll grant you"

@Rainbacon I actually lost track of the original sentence, lemme look

> I'll give them false hope(s)

Note that I didn't edit in a "to" here

scohe001

@M.A.R.ಠ_ಠ I mean that depends whether or not you're an old shriveled user of the force :P

Rainbacon

Correct, you edited in a to in " I don't have anything to give them"

M.A.R. ಠ_ಠ

7:03 PM

Well, my analysis knowledge is rusty, but I guess it's a noun complement

scohe001

"I don't have any wishes left to grant you" vs. "I don't have any wishes left to grant to you" is closer to the same situation if you prefer (though it all looks the same to me). I think the usage you're citing is different

M.A.R. ಠ_ಠ

Lemme search a bit more

The only English ditransitive verb that allows the indirect object to be retained and the direct object omitted when understood is tell. If you want to tell him something important, then if you do tell him, both instances of him there are still tell’s indirect object. It does not suddenly become a direct object just because the "it" or the "something important" has been elided in the second instance. — tchrist ♦ May 26 '17 at 4:04

Hmm, probably

But let me see if I can find something without all the convoluted terminology

I guess I was wrong then. Both are equally acceptable

Wait, no, he's talking about ellipsis. Might or might not be the same

UGH, why does ELU suck at tagging

scohe001

7:20 PM

Maybe they're not good at finding words to describe things?

M.A.R. ಠ_ಠ

@scohe001 No it's a general problem language sites have

They work much much better with hierarchial tagging

Rainbacon

Ok, if my reading is correct

to give is an infinitive and them is the indirect object

and anything is the direct object

M.A.R. ಠ_ಠ

@Rainbacon Yep. That much we agree on. I'm looking to find out whether it's grammatical for the complement "to give to them" to appear without the second "to"

Rainbacon

According to this the indirect object must be in a prepositional phrase if the direct object is a pronoun

M.A.R. ಠ_ಠ

"to give to them" is definitely grammatical

scohe001

7:24 PM

Jk I'm dumb

M.A.R. ಠ_ಠ

@scohe the difference is we're not including the direct object in the construction

So it's a different construction

Rainbacon

I think the infinitive is what makes it weird

M.A.R. ಠ_ಠ

Yep, that's the "object complement" I've been talking about

scohe001

Yea, I see it now--sorry about that lol

M.A.R. ಠ_ಠ

@Rainbacon A bone I have to pick with these is they don't adequately differentiate between ungrammatical and unnatural

37

A: In how many ways can something not be right?

There are a multitude of ways we can approach this. There are a lot of classifications and labels for things that can be reasonably marked as wrong in language. For instance, an error might happen in speech or it could happen in writing. It might happen more often in informal contexts or in forma...

scohe001

7:28 PM

@M.A.R.ಠ_ಠ I mean technically isn't a lot of spoken English "ungrammatical" until the rules finally change to fit? I'd think natural vs unnatural would be a better tell (unless you're taking an English course in a non-English speaking country)

M.A.R. ಠ_ಠ

@scohe001 That's the difference between prescriptivism and descriptivism, lad

Prescriptivists = Rules govern language

Rainbacon

My reading about object complements seems to indicate that our infinitive isn't one as object complements are supposed to be nouns, pronouns, or adjectives

M.A.R. ಠ_ಠ

Descriptivists = People govern language

scohe001

@M.A.R.ಠ_ಠ I'm not your lad, dude.

M.A.R. ಠ_ಠ

Dang, I keep forgetting the genders, sorry

scohe001

7:31 PM

Lol yea a quick Wikipedia run illuminated me on that front. Didn't even realize these were things

@M.A.R.ಠ_ಠ oh, no, you're fine, sorry. It was a movie reference. It usually goes back and forth: "I'm not your lad, dude." "I'm not your dude, man" "I'm not your man, bro." etc, etc...

M.A.R. ಠ_ಠ

Modern grammar is usually descriptivist. Of course, both are spectra so not all prescriptivists are stuck-up bureaucrats and not all descriptivists make sense

@scohe001 I'm more familiar with LOTR's "I'm no man"

@Rainbacon Hmm? thefreedictionary.com/Object-Complements.htm

Rainbacon

Hmm, that differs from what I got out of the google box

M.A.R. ಠ_ಠ

Where is @Ælis anyway? She's the reason we're like confused chicken now in the first place

@Rainbacon Haha, you're coming closer to realizing how crappy language tutorials can be

I'm more like a confused hawk.

@Rainbacon Regarding the first example of the tutorial you linked, the reason is more likely to be english.stackexchange.com/questions/90530/…

Ælis

@M.A.R.ಠ_ಠ I'm here now, you just need to ping me :D

M.A.R. ಠ_ಠ

@Rain also, the second example is

17

A: Is it incorrect to say, 'Give me it'?

"Give me it" sounds very odd in Standard English, but so does "give it me". If you want to be on the safe side, I would go with "give it to me". There are, however, dialects where "give me it" and "give it me" are acceptable or even preferred, see e.g. this BBC article: Lancashire is a rich ...

Dialectal.

A lot of answers about English that are on the sane side say "to be on the safe side".

Rainbacon

7:40 PM

Hmm, ok. Well, I think that this whole exercise has re-affirmed my vote to reject your edit on the grounds of no improvement. I've seen posts that specifically mention not making changes to things that might be a matter of regional dialect (for example british spellings vs american ones)

M.A.R. ಠ_ಠ

Hey, I didn't say this specific instance is dialectal!

Although, yeah, if it sounds natural to two fluent English speakers, then my edit would arguably have been superfluous

But how could you not mercy the emdashes. Et tu, Brute?

scohe001

Lol if the girl wants ascii dashes, she'll get ascii dashes!

M.A.R. ಠ_ಠ

@scohe001 Using big dashes for phrases is probably not wrong but my preference is with sentences. Either way, she used "--" not commas

Rainbacon

Is @Ælis a she? If I remember correctly I thought that they prefered neutral pronouns?

M.A.R. ಠ_ಠ

Now this has inspired me to go make some more edits.

El'endia Starman

7:44 PM

Just use "they" for everyone. Equally discriminatory!

Ælis

@Rainbacon I do prefere "they" indeed but I'm also fine with "she" :)

M.A.R. ಠ_ಠ

10 more arguments like this and I'm back to my golden age

scohe001

@Ælis oof sorry about that :(

M.A.R. ಠ_ಠ

Well, OK. I need to write that down somewhere.

I use singular they often. But it sounds weird when I could use something else

scohe001

@M.A.R.ಠ_ಠ with em-dashes? And a missing direct object?

Ælis

7:45 PM

@scohe001 Don't be, I didn't really annonced it "officialy" anyway ^^

M.A.R. ಠ_ಠ

It's like an Android default setting

Rainbacon

We should write a user script that replaces every instance of "he" and "she" with "they"

scohe001

@Rainbacon I could see that getting hairy quick with a recounted interaction between a man and a woman: "And then she said she couldn't, but that only made him more mad..."

M.A.R. ಠ_ಠ

@Rainbacon "they is a b****!" "they thinks they is really handsome smirk"

Jinx. Ish.

Also which movie is that from? I've heard it before

Ælis

@Rainbacon It was my dream to do that for French books: "translate" my favorite books to use gender neutral subject. I also wanted to do some gender swapping for fun. I actually started to think about all the names the people on Harry Potter (Harriet Potter) could have with the gender swapping thing :D

Rainbacon

7:49 PM

@Ælis and her best friends Herman Granger and Rhonda Weasley

M.A.R. ಠ_ಠ

@Rainbacon BTW, what I understood from a couple of answers was that "indirect object" is syntactically defined with a prepositional phrase, at least in some reputable analyses. You would have had no way of proving me wrong . . .

Ælis

@Rainbacon I wasn't going for Rhonda, but that's the spirit! :D

Rainbacon

@Ælis Oh, then maybe it's still Ron and he and Herman are gay? That's be more fun anyway

El'endia Starman

I can guarantee you there's a fanfic for that.

M.A.R. ಠ_ಠ

Every time someone mentions "that's the spirit" I can't help but think about that Korean mistranslation. They mistranslate alcohol (or alcoholic drinks) as "spirits"

Rainbacon

7:52 PM

That's not a mistranslation

Ælis

@Rainbacon No, I just choose another feminine name for Ron. But I was also thinking about not swapping everyone in order to have same-sex couple

M.A.R. ಠ_ಠ

Mal-translation?

Rainbacon

Spirits refers to a specific type of alcoholic beverage

M.A.R. ಠ_ಠ

Hmm, lemme see if I can find the LanguageLog thing

scohe001

> pl. Strong alcoholic liquor for drinking, obtained from various substances by distillation;

M.A.R. ಠ_ಠ

7:55 PM

It's one of those rusty memories since it goes back to dialysis time

Rainbacon

Specifically, I believe that they are distilled alcohols with no additional sugars added or something strange like that

@Ælis Oh, which name?

Ælis

I actually choose a name for the whole Weasley family, there it goes:

M.A.R. ಠ_ಠ

Oh wait. languagelog.ldc.upenn.edu/nll/?p=24203

@Rainbacon Yeah, fuzzy memory, as usual

Mithrandir

@El'endiaStarman There are fanfics for everything. Looking at story-identification + harry-potter + fanfiction on Science Fiction & Fantasy will give you a small sample...

Ælis

Artémis (Arthur) and Mani (Molly) Weasley have 7 children: Belle (Bille), Carlie (Charlie), Frieda and Georgia (Fred and George), Jerry (Ginny), Patty (Percy) and Rona (Ron)

(the birth order isn't respected in my list, sorry :/ )

@Mithrandir So much downvotes Oo

M.A.R. ಠ_ಠ

8:03 PM

I see you have posted three answers, all three standing at zero score, and only one being +1/-1. Neither answer seems to contain 'brutal' or hostile comments. Could you edit your post to include some instances of hostility, so we can figure out what's wrong? My personal impression is ELL is too lenient. — M.A.R. ಠ_ಠ 27 secs ago

I should make an occupation out of this

Mithrandir

@M.A.R.ಠ_ಠ IME, voting on ELL in general is low

M.A.R. ಠ_ಠ

@Mithrandir That's more or less true. Too many answerers hunting easy questions to answer, and the askers typically don't ask something that compels you to upvote.

M.A.R. ಠ_ಠ

8:20 PM

. . . I give up, again. The grammar in Eeps post is impeccable, and I wouldn't know how else to edit things.

My best bet would probably be asking and answering, but I need to read up a bit Eeps before I can contribute meaningfully. So, well, not gonna be able to vote in this election

Also, WTH. Still no fourth candidate

Rainbacon

I thought anyone could vote

user15026

You need at least 150 rep to vote, I believe

Rainbacon

8:41 PM

Yeah, I've found a few metas that mention a 150 rep threshold, but I can't find anything official

Ah, there's a blurb about it on the election page

ConfusedHuman

8:55 PM

What's the policy on comments for questions? Is there a specific one?

scohe001

@ConfusedHuman the policy concerning what? Whether or not the comment should be deleted?

4

A: When to flag a comment for review?

Our site gets a lot of comments. As such, I take a "guilty until proven innocent" view on them. Here's my algorithm for comment flagging: Is this a clarifying question or a response by the OP to a clarifying question that hasn't been edited into the main question? Is this a clear suggestion for...

Do you have a specific comment you're asking about?

Rainbacon

Mostly, comments should be used to ask for clarification from the author

Once the clarification has been gained and added to the post, the comments should be removed

ConfusedHuman

@Rainbacon yes, that I figured, but thanks for the clarification

Rainbacon

Are you wondering about an existing comment or thinking of posting one?

ConfusedHuman

@Rainbacon I didn't know, though, that they should be removed after integrated, had never seen it, so I was confused. Guess most posts people just don't edit enough to trigger comment removal

Rainbacon

9:02 PM

Well, there's not an automated process to remove them. They only way they go away is if the poster deletes them or they get flagged and are either deleted by a mod or are deleted by reaching a threshold of number of flags (3 + number of upvotes on the comment)

scohe001

Whelp, I'm signing out for the week. I'll probably poke my head in to check on the election every few days, but until I'm back next Wednesday--best of luck @Rain, @Ava and @Ælis!! I know that no matter who gets picked, our site will be better for it :)

Rainbacon

Thanks @scohe001! Enjoy your week away!

Ælis

@scohe001 Thank you and I definitively agree with you! :)

Also, enjoy your holiday!

scohe001

Thanks guys!<3

Extroverted Main Man

0

Q: How to be elected?

I would like to be elected as a student representative in my university. In particular in my university there is a group of few students (70) that are selected with respect to their grades. Those students do not pay taxes and and live in a college free. I would like to become the representative o...

relationships friend-groups trust politics

M.A.R. ಠ_ಠ

9:13 PM

@ExtrovertedMainMan LOL, thought it was a meta question.

@scohe001 Have fun

@Rainbacon 150 rep to vote, 300 to nominate (3k on SO)

Rainbacon

@M.A.R.ಠ_ಠ Not a meta question, but it does need some attention, which I don't have the time to provide right now (gotta head out to meet my fiancee for dinner)

M.A.R. ಠ_ಠ

@Ælis The "ive" part is not needed, BTW. Englishmen aren't French so w try 2 make everything as short as possible

The inflections are what make me like French though. I'd definitely have to learn French up until at least B1 in my lifetime.

ConfusedHuman

@Rainbacon so deleting is a thing, I thought it was just a last resort. Thanks :)

Rainbacon

9:51 PM

@ConfusedHuman No, comments were designed to be deleted eventually

ConfusedHuman

10:01 PM

@Rainbacon I get it now. While we're at it, do upvotes on comments serve a purpose other than showing to the person asking what is more relevant?

Rainbacon

10:59 PM

@ConfusedHuman They make it harder for comments to be automatically removed. If enough members of the community flag a comment, it will be removed without the need for a moderator to do it. The number of flags needed is based on the number of upvotes the comment has

Also, if too many comments exist on a post, they get collapsed down and only the highest voted comments are shown

M.A.R. ಠ_ಠ

11:56 PM

@Rainbacon That is almost never a problem. If a comment has stayed long enough to receive a considerable number of votes, it requires human eyes to decide whether it should go anyway

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