The Awkward Silence

Extroverted Main Man

08:27

0

Q: How to deal with an awkward situation at work

Not sure if this should be posted at the Workplace, but this question (for me) is more about interpersonal skills. My colleague and I dated for some time, then we stopped doing so later on (she was the one who adduced that we should stop doing so). I respect that decision. Then after some time...

work-environment

Jarko Dubbeldam

09:59

-1

A: How to deal with an awkward situation at work

Tell her it's a drama free zone and no games at work. ;)

what is that comment supposed to mean?

:s

Tempted to tell them this is a drama free zone

Mithrandir24601

@JarkoDubbeldam And no games on IPS, naturally

Extroverted Main Man

0

Q: what to do to stop someone stupid doing stupid things

How to stop someone doing stupid things? Like someone banging and damaging wall with a stick. I sometimes think ignoring would work, but some people start doing more stupid things when they see us ignoring. What to do? Ignore, or something else?

awkward-situations

NVZ

11:51

@JarkoDubbeldam It means 42. It always does.

@JarkoDubbeldam why is it still on the site? LOL

Extroverted Main Man

0

Q: How does one know that it's best not to answer a question?

This question comes from my repeatedly failed attempts to answer questions on other SE websites, where I thought I knew what I was actually talking about. In one instance, I was trying to explain orbital structures to an OP who appeared like he didn't know much about it in a way I've heard it ex...

how-to-help

NVZ

@ExtrovertedMainMan you'll need a very particular set of skills.. skills that you acquire over a very long career as a human.

Jarko Dubbeldam

12:08

@NVZ ye idk, I already flaggered it

Tinkeringbell

12:39

@JarkoDubbeldam I already cast a down and delete vote... but I think the high rep user army is sleeping/ having a lazy sunday :P

NVZ

12:57

@Tinkeringbell it's usually just 3-4 of us voting to delete stuff.

and @BradleyWilson is not seen these days?

Tinkeringbell

@NVZ He popped in Friday to distribute the 100 day answer contest rep... but no, haven't seen him much before or after

NVZ

@Tinkeringbell Yep. Life happens. I'm stuck at 8k now for a while. Can't find the time to write a decent answer. LOL

Tinkeringbell

@NVZ I wrote 2 or 3 this week... .but the week before that there weren't questions that were in my field of expertise :P

NVZ

@Tinkeringbell Your field of expertise? :P

I wasn't sure what "life happens" means when I said it. But now I think I used it right. :)

interpersonalwellness.com/life-happens

Mithrandir

Humph. Is it worth it to get into an argument over the purpose of a chat room vs. a second room on a kids site every time I visit the chat?

Tinkeringbell

13:12

@Mithrandir If you're the person in charge of keeping both chats clean/on purpose, why not?... but then maybe there should be notices or something

Mithrandir

Nah, in this case I'm not in charge or anything.

I'm just a regular user.

...member for nearly four years, so I know how things work, but still just a regular semi active user.

Tinkeringbell

@Mithrandir Then just leave it to the person that's in charge ;) Nag them about it ;)

NVZ

@Mithrandir aren't we all!

We the regulars now playing in theaters near you.

Mithrandir

They aren't really around... like, ever... And I doubt they'd care that much. Essentially, one room is for general chat, the other is for role playing. Every time, people are RPing in the main room, which is annoying to those who actually want to talk.

...which is usually me and one other person who's also relatively old but that's irrelevant :P

NVZ

@Mithrandir is it on SE?

Mithrandir

13:16

@NVZ no

NVZ

@Mithrandir then you have nothing much to do than to notify the mods/admins there.

and that's all.

Mithrandir

Yeah... that won't help. They haven't entered the chat for like over a year.

NVZ

you do your thing in the chat.

they will do theirs.

Mithrandir

This is on the Scholastic kids sites, BTW.

NVZ

and you can all chat past each other... happily ever after

maybe there's an ips-y question in that. Ask on main site? :)

Mithrandir

13:21

For reference, it's a very simple chat with a very strict word filter that's fairly annoying.

No public transcript or anything.

Extroverted Main Man

14:11

0

Q: Code readability, conventions and should I let go

This will be a bit longer so I want to apologize upfront. While chasing a bug I had to step a few times through the following code that was near the bug location (code is C#): if(SelectedItem != null && Items.Count == 0) SelectedItem = null; else if(SeelctedItem != null && Items.Contain...

conflict-aversion awkward-situations

Jarko Dubbeldam

15:02

uuuuh

I got a nice answer badge for an answer with 9 upvotes

Magisch

@JarkoDubbeldam Maybe a 10th person upvoted it and then undid their upvote

Jarko Dubbeldam

@Magisch guesso

Magisch

Badges aren't unrewarded when the conditions are no longer met

At least non-tag badges arent

apaul

15:57

@Tinkeringbell interpersonal.meta.stackexchange.com/questions/2047/…

Tinkeringbell

@apaul:

> Responses to the question have already gone off the rails. All of the proposed notices here serve only to remind readers of things they should already be keeping in mind when responding to questions. Or responding to anyone, anywhere, ever. The only reason we'd need a special notice is that things have broken down to the point where an extra reminder is needed.
It's worth mentioning comments as well. In fact, comments seem to spin out of control a lot faster than answers in these scenarios, so I'm kinda inclined to focus on them more than answers... But realistically, soapboxing in either…

From shog9's answer on the meta posts ;)

apaul

@Tinkeringbell Ya... I've read that a few times now. Just saying that it doesn't support your comments.

Tinkeringbell

@apaul I'll take another look

apaul

@Tinkeringbell If Catija thought that those answers were fine, she probably would have spelled that out after being repeatedly challenged about it.

Extroverted Main Man

16:15

0

Q: How do you tactfully answer nosy questions from interviewers or salespeople on if you're shopping around, when you are?

This question assumes malevolent, nosy intent by such interviewers or salespeople, probably to decide how much effort, help and time to allocate you. E.g., if a salesperson is convinced of your exclusive interest in her company, she may be less deceiving about the true price (thus saving you from...

conflict-aversion

Tinkeringbell

Okay... after taking a longer look at it:

- There is something to say about those answers focusing more on 'diagnosing' the sexual harassment (and proving it) than they are focused on giving the OP guidance on how to talk to John. A simple "jokes about a secret relationship going on including bed room speculations might well fall under sexual harassment, so please handle it now and handle it firmly" might have done better than an essay on 'what is sexual harrassment'.

- That might warrant a post notice. Think about it. If this question was about something LGBT and I came around with a lot…

- That's where the second part comes in: The notice is to remind people that soapboxing in comments is just as bad.

apaul

@Tinkeringbell My point was that we should lean towards dealing with the shit storm rather than deleting, or threatening to delete answers posted in good faith.

Also @Catija already tipped her hand on her personal thoughts on that subject which kinda makes this whole thing a lot more personal... Like had she not already tried to argue the point that it was somehow not sexual harassment, she would have a better position to start from...

Extroverted Main Man

0

Q: Is mentioning that a synagogue is located in a well off neighbourhood is a racist remark?

There is a synagogue across the street where I moved in recently. I was describing the neighborhood to a friend and I said that it is a very well off area, there is even a synagogue close by (having the premise that synagogues are often in well off areas and jews are often wealthier than the aver...

religion prejudice

Tinkeringbell

@apaul Ah... so maybe we can just ask @Catija if she can edit her post (so it won't cause a shitstorm? :P) and include a less 'personal' example?

apaul

@ExtrovertedMainMan ya... That's gonna be a fun one...

@Tinkeringbell Already did that in an answer. She chose to be glib and then dismissive, so... Fuck it.

Tinkeringbell

16:52

I think the controversial topic notice introduction might need a controversial topic notice....

I don't know.... IMO, the notice an sich isn't a bad thing. The way it was introduced might have been, it is being experienced as such by some people....

I'll just wait it out... See when it gets used and when not. Call out some mods in chat if I think the notice is necessary. Make a meta post asking why a post got a notice while I think it didn't need one. I think that will help me understand the whole thing a lot better...

HDE 226868

Can I clear one thing up, @apaul? The post Catija linked in her meta question was not the inspiration for asking for the post notice for IPS - it was requested for IPS weeks before the IPS question was asked. No specific post was the impetus for this.

apaul

17:14

@HDE226868 Eh... It would have helped a lot more if Catija would have said that, or ya'know not tried to use a situation that she ham-fisted as an example.

apaul

17:28

@HDE226868 Sorry, just thinking it's a bit hollow when it's other moderators and users stepping in to offer explanations and mend fences...

Tinkeringbell

18:06

I don't think that's too bad. Sometimes, it's better to have other people step in, to avoid a discussion from getting overheated. You're still feeling pretty strong about what happened (ham-fisted/glib/dismissive... not really giving the impression you're not going to roast Catija alive were she to contact you now ;) )...

https://chat.stackexchange.com/transcript/61165?m=40937719#40937719

Please don't let one stupid little post notice that's still in its trial period divide you and Catija so much.... Hope you can find a way to talk it out soon, in a constructive way...

Magisch

18:40

What exactly is the controversy here, anyways?

HDE 226868

@apaul I don't know what you mean by "hollow".

Introverted Meta Man.

5

Q: How does one know that it's best not to answer a question?

This question comes from my repeatedly failed attempts to answer questions on other SE websites, where I thought I knew what I was actually talking about. In one instance, I was trying to explain orbital structures to an OP who appeared like he didn't know much about it in a way I've heard it ex...

discussion

apaul

19:13

@HDE226868 "Hollow" as in, it doesn't do much to help the situation.

HDE 226868

@apaul You didn't seem to be understanding that point.

Rather, you continued to imply that your answer and anongoodnurse's answer were the impetus for the notice. Which is not at all true.

apaul

19:28

@HDE226868 Nah, I get that she was talking about a kind of answer and used our answers as examples. Knowing that doesn't really help or make much difference. It's still focusing attention on well meaning users posting in good faith, rather than focusing on the more problematic users who come here to provoke people and incite debate. Also, if other posts were the impetus why not talk about those instead?

HDE 226868

@apaul Well-meaning users are the whole reason for the notice, in my eyes.

See, you're a well-respected user of the site who's been here since the beginning.

You're very active, and you contribute a lot.

You're the kind of person who knows the rules (and follows them). You're also the kind of person who would hopefully pay attention to this notice if it's applied.

The notice reminds people - like you - when they've maybe gotten too heated.

People not posting in good faith, or just trying to debate, are not going to heed the notice.

And with or without it, they'll be dealt with, by flagging, community moderation, and sometimes mod action.

The Snark Knight

@apaul Just what are my true colors. Don't suggest, come right out and say it

apaul

@HDE226868 ... Speaking of which ...

HDE 226868

Would both @TheSnarkKnight and @apaul mind they not have the sort of the debate that is on the verge of happening?

Please?

Shog9

This room was placed in timeout for 1 minute; Enough of this

@apaul you implied I hard deleted posts yesterday.

you then went back and deleted that comment, but I haven't seen an apology yet

apaul

19:37

@HDE226868 So... Is the problem in the answer or the resulting comments? Kinda looks like a prime example of what I've been getting at about the post notice.

Shog9

but look, here you are, throwing out accusations at others

knock it off.

apaul

@Shog9 I said I was mistaken and that I was looking at the wrong question.

The Snark Knight

@HDE226868 I have said the only thing I will on the subject. You and Shog are handling things.

Shog9

@apaul so you gonna apologize, or...?

Better yet... answer this:

That depends, @apaul - are you writing to help the asker, to help others with the same problem... or are you commenting on other answers, or just using the entire thread as a pretext? Are you problem solving or evangelizing? If you're doing the former, then this isn't about you and you can stop being fearful. If you're doing the latter, stop. — Shog9 ♦ yesterday

You're throwing a pretty big fit over this.

apaul

@Shog9 Given the further ham-fisted responses and tone... Nope.

Shog9

19:41

This room was placed in timeout for 30 minutes; the topic of this room is "General discussion for interpersonal.stackexchange.com"; - conversation should be limited to that topic.

So here's the deal:

6

This site is chartered as a Q&A site for interpersonal communications skills

It is, most emphatically, NOT a site chartered to discuss any of the following:

- Human sexuality

- Relationships

- Neurolinguistic programming

- How to win friends and influence people

- Politics

- General discussion

But right now, things are getting seriously dodgy because folks keep trying to turn it into one or more of those.

This has gotta stop.

For anyone reading this: either you're in agreement with that and want to help, or you should quit the site.

It's that simple. Do not continue to be a member of this site unless you're dedicated to building a Q&A site on interpersonal communications.

If you want a discussion forum, quit.

If you want vulnerable people to troll, quit.

If you want a place to discuss politics, quit.

If you want a Q&A site on interpersonal communication and a discussion forum when it suits your fancy, quit.

This is not, and will never be, a site for any of those things.

If you do want a site for Q&A on interpersonal communications, then you must be willing to help build it.

That means:

- Editing questions to ensure they are within that scope

- Answering questions that fall within that scope such that the asker and future readers have the tools needed to solve their current and future communications problems

- Editing answers that stray from that goal

- Leaving comments that prompt the askers to clarify their questions and answerers to focus their answers

- Flagging and/or deleting questions or answers that cannot be salvaged by editing.

- Discussing problems that you cannot solve on your own with other members of the site so as to arrive at a solution that can be collaboratively implemented.

It does NOT mean:

- expecting to always be right

- asserting that you are always right

- refusing to accept that the rules apply to you as they do to everyone else

- refusing to accept the outcome of a discussion when it would prevent you from doing or saying whatever you might want to do or say in a given moment

- throwing out unsubstantiated accusations or otherwise tying up the time of other members of the site that could better be used doing one of the things listed above.

Again, if anyone reading this cannot accept that... Quit.

This is not going to be everyone's favorite site on the Internet. In the best possible scenario, it may become a useful Q&A site on the topic of interpersonal communication.

There are a host of ways it could fail to even be that.

And the most plausible way, one we've seen repeatedly on sites for similar topics, is that a whole bunch of you decide you'd rather talk about something else and then just do it.

It's hard enough for the folks who want to stay focused to deal with the difficult subject matter, the endless stream of overt trolls, and the pain of forcing an inherently fluid topic into the rigid structure of a Q&A engine built for programming questions...

...Please, please, please don't make it harder by intentionally sidetracking from that goal.

(none of this is up for discussion; I'm going back to cleaning my garage now, and I don't want to see any more bickering on the matter when I return.)

Magisch

20:15

So I think we'll need a way to seperate questions about interpersonal relations within say a relationship from questions that are just about a relationship. I think. If it applies that there is a distinction we need a good way to make it. Maybe we should have a meta about that, idk, how does a new site decide policy like this?

The distinction between off topic and on topic right now seems to be mostly vaguely common sense based. I don't think that works and opinions vary wildly sometimes. So how do we move towards codifying what is and isn't on topic? Who even has the authority to decide t…

apaul

@Shog9 A lot of the issue is that evangelism is in the eye of the beholder. To a lot of people around here, any mention of certain issues falls into that category when it really shouldn't and it's ignored when it probably should. Admittedly I'm a little pissed off about the way some things have been handled while other things were ignored.

@Shog9 A huge part of the reason for my reaction was that I'd thought @Catija and I had made peace and found a way to work together a bit better, so admittedly a bit of that frustration was more interpersonal/relational. Sort of a "Hey, I thought we buried the hatchet here, why did you have to dig that one up again."

Magisch

@apaul The answer to that is to shine a light on the things you thought were ignored. You have the privilege to flag and to ask on meta. The SE model decides on users taking responsibility for shaping policy themselves. No moderator is coming to save you and pre-emptively keep the site clean. You have to.

The reaction to "why is nobody doing something about this?" is "I'm going to do something or organize people to on meta"

A while ago I saw some answers I found definitely un-nice. I went and flagged them and they got dealt with. There is no other way to get remedy here, the moderators aren't going to monitor every post for unacceptability like SD does with spam ... they rely on users drawing attention to them. As one of the most active users of the site, you have all the tools to do this.

apaul

@Magisch And I've been doing this.

Magisch

Then keep doing it. This is a team effort.

Extroverted Main Man

20:35

0

Q: How to address rude behavior by unknown neighbor?

I live on the first level of an apartment building. There are two levels above me and the building is laid out such that when my car is parked in my space (in front of my garage) it is below the balconies of the other levels. Someone in one of those units smokes on their balcony and their ashes a...

conflict-aversion neighbours

Tinkeringbell

That is a valid frustration, but one that was probably better addressed by asking Catija to talk to you about it :/

Well, I agree with Shogs sermon, although it didn't really do anything to address your frustration.... I think it's nice and gives us a good set of rules to live by...

@apaul I probably haven't seen half the shit here that you saw... but like I said, I'm always willing to help. Just give a shout in chat... Even if it's after a month.

The Snark Knight

@Shog9 you should print that out, frame it, and hang it on your wall.

Tinkeringbell

@TheSnarkKnight I think it should be framed and put on our wall ;)

Magisch

This list is actually really good

We can use that as a basis for meta to start forming policy

And point to it when enforcing it and when people ask "Who gave you the right man?"

Tinkeringbell

Anyone think we should copy paste it, make it one message, star and pin it?

apaul

20:46

This is getting borderline:

7

Q: Is mentioning that a synagogue is located in a well off neighbourhood a racist remark?

There is a synagogue across the street where I moved in recently. I was describing the neighborhood to a friend and I said that it is a very well off area, there is even a synagogue close by (having the premise that synagogues are often in well off areas and Jews are often wealthier than the aver...

religion prejudice

Magisch

Great candidate for the post notice

Who can apply it?

apaul

I've already raised a couple flags there, but it's probably worth purging comments before it devolves further.

@Magisch Pretty sure that's a mod only action.

HDE 226868

@apaul@Magisch I'd do so, but I have an answer there right now. Would it come across as a conflict of interest if I added the post notice to the question?

Tinkeringbell

@HDE226868 Might be a bit... But then again... if you don't start throwing away answers, only comments... why not?

HDE 226868

Ah, Catija's added it.

@Tinkeringbell True. One rule of diamond moderation is to try not to take action on threads where you've posted.

Tinkeringbell

20:51

@HDE226868 Hmm... but if things are getting out of hand and you're the only one around, I think it's still your job to clean things up right away?

Stupid tightrope to walk actually...

HDE 226868

@Tinkeringbell In the worst cases, yes.

Here, I decided to ping Catija about it, and she found the time to do it.

Tinkeringbell

@HDE226868 Yeah okay, that's better... just making sure things will get cleaned up it there's only one of you around

HDE 226868

@Tinkeringbell Yeah, they almost always will.

apaul

Ugh... That's disappointing... Should have seen it coming though. The answer that told them what they wanted to hear, and took a swipe at "SJWs" was accepted.

1

A: Is mentioning that a synagogue is located in a well off neighbourhood a racist remark?

Jews being wealthy is a stereotype and like most stereotypes it's based on reality: JEWS HIGHEST-EARNING RELIGIOUS GROUP IN US. Associating Jews with wealth is in no way racist: Definition of racism - a belief that race is the primary determinant All that statement claims is that there is ...

Tinkeringbell

@apaul pfft... I'm not a big fan of that answer either. But it is one way of looking at it :/

apaul

21:11

@HDE226868 in cases where the new post notice is already up, do you still want individual flags on further comments, or are you all planning to check back periodically to purge?

SmokeDetector

[ SmokeDetector | MS ] Potentially bad keyword in answer: Is mentioning that a synagogue is located in a well off neighbourhood a racist remark? by user8826 on interpersonal.SE (@YvetteColomb @AJ @Tinkeringbell)

Yvette Colomb

@SmokeDetector @HDE226868 I'm curious - this user account is already deleted/destroyed?

apaul

@Catija if you have the time and the patience I'd like to work things out in a private chat. Sorry for getting a little too worked up about things.

Magisch

Comments on that thread are getting heated again

It makes me think the entire question is a lightning rod for discussions about politics in the comments

Jarko Dubbeldam

@apaul I guess you should've disclaimed you were a jew. Would've made your opinion correct right away

Yvette Colomb

21:24

@Magisch is this the synagogue question?

Magisch

Yes

There is a comment war going on underneath the accepted answer again

Tinkeringbell

@SmokeDetector why did smokey go off here? It's actually pretty historically accurate

Magisch

@SmokeDetector why

in Charcoal HQ, 14 mins ago, by SmokeDetector

@JakeSymons Body - Position 708-717: Holocaust

Holocaust is a blacklisted keyword

Yvette Colomb

@Tinkeringbell there's certain keywords that have been linked with racist posting

Magisch

Because there's a holocaust denialism spam ring that's been going on

Yvette Colomb

21:28

That's why we review them

Tinkeringbell

@Magisch Makes sense, sort of... So do we flag the answer??

Yvette Colomb

yeh what @Magisch said

Tinkeringbell

Should it be removed, is it entire unallowed?

Yvette Colomb

@Tinkeringbell it's allowed - the feedback to smokey is false positive

fp

It can be discussed, it's not a forbidden topic. Racism is

apaul

@YvetteColomb @JarkoDubbeldam Probably best to disengage from the comments there.

Yvette Colomb

21:31

@apaul sure - I'm ok with that

Magisch

@Tinkeringbell Mentioning the holocaust isn't forbidden. Posting spam with links to denialist websites is. Also charcoal doesn't decide what is and isn't forbidden, we just act on existing guidance

tbh this entire question needs to be deleted imo

Unless the mods want to clean comments in 5 hour intervals for the next month on there

Tinkeringbell

@Magisch I think it might need that yeah...

When answers aren't good, the question probably isn't either. I've read that on meta somewhere...

Catija put it on hold 12 minutes ago

Magisch

The question isn't on topic not even a little imo

"Is this racist" has nothing to do with IPS it's just inviting political diatribe discussion about definitions and intentions

Tinkeringbell

True, upvoted your comment there...

We should have picked that up earlier though....

Magisch

We need to put an end to such questions before they become HNQ bait

And before they and the answers to them get upvoted to high heavens

Tinkeringbell

21:35

@Magisch Was it? Damn.. .that explains a lot...

Magisch

Not actually 100% on that

but votes suggest it imo

Tinkeringbell

@Magisch It's not on the list now... do questions automagically get removed once it is on-hold?

Magisch

I think

I'm not sure it ever was on the list but votes suggest it

Tinkeringbell

> In conclusion Jews are not going to be offended by what you said because you didn't say anything offensive SJWs on the other hand will tell you that you're a racist because you dare not think like them

does that fall under rude/abusive as in 'nakedly insulting a group of people'?

Magisch

I think this falls more under "Using any opportunity to soapbox"

Tinkeringbell

21:41

@Magisch Hmm... that can be deleted under the right of the post notice then

apaul

@Tinkeringbell We've debated that to death, without any clear resolution. But, I flagged it for soapboxing already.

Tinkeringbell

@apaul Okay... Well, I have to go to bed... I'm curious to see what happened in the morning ;)

apaul

@Tinkeringbell Sleep well.

Introverted Meta Man.

22:14

0

Q: Why was my answer deleted?

The following was my answer to this question - Is mentioning that a synagogue is located in a well off neighbourhood a racist remark? That was an honest and polite answer, had 5 upvotes and downvotes, was accepted by OP and directly answers the question. Why was it deleted?

support moderation specific-answer

apaul

Round two. Ding ding ding

apaul

22:28

@John You're up.

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