The Awkward Silence

00:38

1

Q: Is asking about appropriate dress for a situation on-topic here?

There's already a question about whether wearing white at a wedding is only taboo in the US, that is not closed, but is this true generally?

heather

@Zizouz212 over in the hbar someone uttered their condolences (and a couple of exclamations) when they saw you had HNQs but no mods =/

Zizouz212

@heather Oh. Fun times :P

heather

00:54

i'm considering putting a bounty on this question of mine, but i think i'll keep waiting to see if there are more answers.

Zizouz212

I'd wait. There's a lot of answers coming, they're just taking time

Hamlet

03:56

Anyone want to clean up europe? Europe refers to so many cultures; it's an incredibly broad tag.

Of course, by that logic, india is also incredibly broad.

Y'all need to start closing questions that don't specify the cultural context. I just went through a bunch of new questions and downvoted/left comments.

Also, communication is incredibly broad. Someone should remove it.

I wish I had more rep so I could do some mod tasks for y'all.

Anyway, I made some suggested edits to try to fix these problems

Zizouz212

04:18

We have a europe tag?

The Question Mark

0

Q: My coworker invited me to go camping. I hate camping but instinctively agreed. How can I back out?

I'm an idiot and I've always had the "nice guy / pushover" mentality which I've been working on personally and have steadily gotten a lot better at overcoming. This one caught me by surprise and I instinctively said yes. The truth is, I hate camping. It is one of my least favorite activities to d...

saying-no

Hamlet

@Zizouz212 :(

Zizouz212

I never noticed :/

Avantgarde

I gotta go camping

Zizouz212

@Hamlet I've started, but I've only gotten the close votes privilege like... yesterday :/

Hamlet

04:20

I thought the tagging situation was bad on literature, but I realize that it was just me gripping about a few tags I don't like

Zizouz212

And I'm sure stuff like this doesn't help: interpersonal.stackexchange.com/review/close/908

I sometimes forget to read the comments sorry! The societal context is in the United States. I am not sure if the other requests we're directed at me as they're copied and pasted. — Joe S 5 hours ago

Catija

You can't close things if there's no consensus. The fact that we have people answering questions that should be closed and other people upvoting those answers is the problem.

Zizouz212

Ayayayaya

Hamlet

@Catija can't build a consensus if you don't leave comments on questions

Catija

No. you just get everyone annoyed at you because you're being repetitive and taking away the fun of them answering questions.

Zizouz212

04:26

@Catija I've found though that we have a bunch of >100 rep users who have been asking and answering questions too though

Catija

@Zizouz212 Which is exactly my point.

I've seen one of our highest reputation users answer a question about the UK with an answer that talks about the US only.

Zizouz212

I feel like I should start measuring the site's success by how many questions go unanswered...

Catija

Probably.

Hamlet

@Zizouz212 how many questions get good answers

Zizouz212

Difficult to measure "good"

But if we can define good as "has an accepted answer", then exactly 50.2% - interpersonal.stackexchange.com/search?q=hasaccepted%3Ano

Hamlet

04:30

@Catija what's the alternative? making posts on meta that no one reads? It's not like you're asking people to do something difficult.

Catija

@Hamlet There's no metric for it. The questions here are "easy" to write answers for and get tons of upvotes... but upvotes mean nothing other than that someone thinks your answer sounds good.

Zizouz212

But then for the workplace, the accepted answer rate is 49.7%

Catija

I've rep capped three days in a row for it.

-1

A: Is it rude to use a driveway to turn around in the road?

I am speaking as an American. Most Americans would consider it an "imposition." But few would consider it "rude" because it is seen as a "necessity." It's a bit like asking people to get up so that you can walk past them to the restroom. It is definitely an "inconvenience" but most would also co...

Zizouz212

^^^^ And that's a key issue. I think many people think that "Oh! Yeah, I would do this" rather than "This is definitely relevant for the situation that the OP is in, and I can empathize with the question and the answer"

@Hamlet By the "hasaccepted" metric, we're average for questions that get 'good' answers

Catija

But we also have people who accept answers because they think they're supposed to without necessarily finding the answers useful.

Zizouz212

04:44

@Hamlet Some quick data would show that the accept rate is fairly normal:

Interpersonal Skills          50.2%
Biology                       46.9%
French Language               71.7%
Travel                        45.6%
English Language Learners     51.8%
The Workplace                 49.7%
English Language and Usage    51.0%
History                       50.2%

Take this all with a grain of salt. *Every* question here on IPS has a physical answer that *can* be accepted. Other sites, especially places such as History and Biology have many questions that do not have any answers. So while IPS may appear to be in the "middle", when adjusted, we're probably closer to t…

Hamlet

@Zizouz212 yay, you have no problems!

Zizouz212

I say we annoy the French mods and find out their secret

Hamlet

(these kinds of stats rarely tell you useful things).

Zizouz212

Actually, wait.

Hamlet

Positive news today: someone edited their question to add a country tag

Zizouz212

04:45

We're really crappy. That also assumes that each question on the site has an answer, which is True for us, but not for any other site

Hamlet

Could you add a country tag to this question, and edit this question and add some information about the cultural context? The answer to this question will depend on your cultural context. — Hamlet 26 mins ago

-1

A: Courtesy and etiquette: Can we make the difference clearer or synonymize them?

Both tags are being used in similar ways as politeness. etiquette and courtesy are both used almost exclusively for questions about how to be polite. If you look at the definitions of courtesy and etiquette, you'll see that this makes sense. Etiquette is a set of (unwritten) rules about how to ...

Zizouz212

05:12

On a separate note, when are we getting da mods!!!!

Catija

Never, probably. Tomorrow Robert is going to burn the entire site down.

2

Hamlet

Also, when it comes to tags, y'all need to stop getting hung up on dictionary definitions. Yes, two words can have slightly different definitions. No, that does not mean that there should be two separate tags.

Tags have a specific purpose: to help people find questions they can answer.

If a tag doesn't do that, chuck it out.

Zizouz212

@Hamlet Re boundaries: They have different definitions, but if one class of question doesn't fit, then it would make more sense to keep them as different tags. Worst comes to worse, they can have both. And of the questions with the [boundaries] tag, only 1 has [saying-no]. It's a difficult call - perhaps others may have stronger opinions?

Hamlet

@Zizouz212 well, the worst case scenario is questions get tagged with five tags, and you need to add a sixth country tag.

The country tag actually helps people find questions they can answer.

You have too many tags. Some of those tags are unnecessary.

Zizouz212

Yeah. We're talking tags waaaay too late

Hamlet

05:22

saying-no and boundaries aren't exact matches, but they're really close.

@Zizouz212 I actually think it's good to let tags grow organically during the private beta.

Then take stock, identify problems, and start aggressively pruning.

Zizouz212

The aggressive pruning part isn't always effective though ;)

SQB

@Hamlet saying no is a way of asserting your boundaries.

Zizouz212

But boundaries in reference to what?

SQB

@Zizouz212 oh, you've been to Science Fiction & Fantasy.

Zizouz212

Saying no to a simple question may not be asserting boundaries.

Hamlet

05:25

@SQB exactly, I'm trying to say that they should be synonyms.

Zizouz212

@SQB lol what? I abandoned that place decades ago

Hamlet

@Zizouz212 that tag isn't being used for questions like "Do you like toast? no." And if it were, then it would be a dumb tag.

SQB

Where we're fighting (well, I am) against every minor character from Harry Potter getting their own tag.

Zizouz212

Maybe boundaries just isn't the right term in my mind. I'm starting to see what you're saying though

SQB

@Hamlet and I'm trying to say that they should not be.

@Hamlet how about "do you like the toast I made for you?"

Zizouz212

05:28

(on a side note) - is [boundaries] appropriate for this? And is it broad? interpersonal.stackexchange.com/questions/631/…

SQB

If the toast is atrocious, one might want to say no, but without hurting the feelings of the maker of the toast.

@Zizouz212 I'd vote to lose [boundaries]. Good question, though.

Hamlet

@SQB that's a politeness question

Zizouz212

Like I feel that saying-no is also akin to something like declining-offers or something like that. Boundaries kind of feels more like personal-space

Introverted Meta Man.

I

Want

Indian

Food

Zizouz212

~~omg~~ That's better

Catija

05:33

:?

Zizouz212

He seldom speaks. We have to get the words out of him to see what's on his mind.

Also, is this more of an [etiquette] question than [boundaries]?

Catija

This is probably stupid but I'm still really bugged that the main site bot got changed. I helped name it and it was designed to pair with the meta one... now they're mismatched and I don't even feel like I had any say in it at all. I would really like it if we put it back but I don't know what happened to the old avatar.

3

Zizouz212

We have a [self-improvement] tag??

@Catija Should I put it back? I can probably find the avatar again

(It's bugged me too, but I've tried to keep quiet)

Catija

We're a site about interpersonal skills and we can't even talk about stupid crap like this without being worried of offending someone.

I think there's more important things to deal with right now, so I didn't want to take it to Meta but I think it would be nice to put it back and discuss it before changing them again.

Anyway, I have to go to bed now.

Zizouz212

Night :)

SQB

05:49

For what it's worth, I thought there were "too many men" among the bots, too.

I agree that they made a good pair, though.

Zizouz212

And back again.

If anyone has issues, meta it is

Yvette Colomb

alright I've been followed around and requested I put a location of where I am in my posts @Hamlet

Personally I am really not sure that is the best way to go

I added a australia

it feels too specific

SQB

I do like how Meta Man reminds me of Mega Man.

Yvette Colomb

@ExtrovertedMainMan so who changed this back?

@Zizouz212 ? do you know?

@Catija well you did it unilaterally without any consensus from the site - twice now

I'm really concerned about you moderating the site, with this attitude.

Catija

@YvetteColomb I didn't do it ever... Please don't make accusations.

2

SQB

05:55

@YvetteColomb That's the exact problem with location tags — we don't know. Australia implies western, Judeo-Christian culture, because that's (looking at it from about as far away as one can be from Australia) the predominant culture there. But there's Aboriginal Australian culture to consider as well, and specific Australian culture on top of that, too.

Yvette Colomb

@Catija you have complained about it persistently since it was changed.

And it was your complaint that got it changed back

Hamlet

@YvetteColomb thank you

Yvette Colomb

I'm writing a meta post about it

Hamlet

@Catija I thought you had to go to bed :)

Zizouz212

@SQB That's been on my mind. 'Country' tags don't work well. I've always preferred having [demonym-culture] e.g. [indian-culture] or [aboriginal-canadian-culture]

Catija

05:57

So you get tomake all of the unilateral decisions and I get to be accused of them? How is that my fault? Three people wanted it changed back, that's not unilateral.

SQB

@YvetteColomb May I suggest that post just being "what do we want to call our chatroom feeds?"?

Zizouz212

In hindsight though, I never said anything though :P

Yvette Colomb

@Catija if you become Mod here - you will need to tone the opinions down - as you will be a high rep user and with the authority of a mod - it will be intimidating on the site and in chat

Zizouz212

@YvetteColomb @Catija Why don't we put this to Meta.

Yvette Colomb

@Zizouz212 I'm writing a post

@Catija No I was making a change until it went to meta - I said clearly if you don't like it take it to meta

Catija

05:58

Being a mod doesn't mean that I can't have opinions.

Zizouz212

Yvette, I changed the bots' names, because they were bugging me too. Catija and I created the bots, thought of the names. You supported it too, so to have it reversed without telling everyone isn't exactly setting the model either, is it?

But accusing someone of doing something without having at least try to provoke constructive conversation, or not pursuing unprofessional routes doesn't improve things either.

Hamlet

@YvetteColomb Moderators are supposed to be exception handlers, i.e. depending on the circumstances they, yes, act unilaterally.

33

Q: How is consensus determined on Meta sites?

On our main sites "the best answer" is somewhat fluidly defined as the superposition of the highest voted answer and the accepted answer. Truth be told, the system is rather insistent on allowing multiple "right answers" and that's one of its strengths: you can be the judge of who you believe. ...

discussion per-site-meta policy self-governance

Yvette Colomb

0

Q: The names and avatars of the chat bots

We currently have two chat bots posting feed into the chat room, The Awkward Silence. There's Extroverted Main Man - all the new questions to the main site are posted with this user profile. This is the avatar. There's Introverted Meta Man - all new meta questions are posted with this user pr...

discussion chat

@Zizouz212 I know you changed it. It's obvious once I read back through the transcript

@Zizouz212 I supported it, only because I thought it was a temporary thing.

@Hamlet definitely not over community based decisions

Zizouz212

So if nobody talks, then this is how confusing and differences start. Not exactly fair to hold us to a higher standard, if you didn't exactly say anything either. My impression of your reaction was that you supported it, and liked the names.

Yvette Colomb

@Zizouz212 I was sick of the complaints that kept coming - and there was no meta post - just chat snipes - that's not professional and I asked you when I changed it and you did not object

Hamlet

06:06

@YvetteColomb thank you for creating a meta post

@YvetteColomb and now there is a meta post, so let's move conversation of this issue to said post.

Zizouz212

@YvetteColomb Exactly. So let's quit holding each other on higher standards, and just sort it out like civilized people to meta

Yvette Colomb

@Catija yes you can have opinions, but sounding off in chat is not a good idea - better to take it to meta. You will have a lot of influence here if you become mod - you have a strong personality (like me) and it's important to temper that in a mod position

Catija

@YvetteColomb I don't understand why you didn't create a meta post asking they be changed in the first place. If you really were bugged by them, the solution is to address it on meta and explain your feelings, not to make the decision to change the chat bots without asking. You're holding us to a standard you aren't requiring of yourself and then accusing me of being unfit to moderate a site.

2

Zizouz212

And my response:

0

A: The names and avatars of the chat bots

Keep it! The Extroverted Main Man and the Introverted Meta Man are perfect because they are relevant names for bots to the site's topic: Interpersonal Skills. If there truly is a serious gender imbalance issue, then we can just change the names (and avatars consequently) to something like "Extr...

Yvette Colomb

@Catija yes I should have done that- I figured it was done unilaterally (2-3 users is not a consensus - it's a unilateral arm). I kept telling people here - if they didn't like it - ask about it in meta and it was changed again like it was added in the first place. The thing that bugs me about it - is you and @Zizouz212 might both become mods and this is not the way to handle it. It's ok that I bring this up.

Hamlet

06:12

@YvetteColomb no. You, Catija, and Zizouz212 are all already mods, albeit on different sites. Which mean that in chat, your names are all blue and you are identified as being mods. Which means that y'all need to act like mods.

Zizouz212

Fun. Three answers, saying opposite things, all at -1

SQB

We'll probably end up going with the one with the least down votes.

Hamlet

It doesn't matter if they are (or might be) mods on Interpersonal Skills in the future; what matters is that in chat, you three are all already mods.

Yvette Colomb

@Hamlet ok I can accept that comment.

@SQB we need to find something ~~everyone~~ a majority loves

SQB

in The Restaurant at the End of the Universe, Jun 15 at 19:01, by DaaaahWhoosh

condolences to anyone who tries to moderate the place, though

2

in The Restaurant at the End of the Universe, Jun 15 at 19:01, by SQB

Yeah, they'll need some good... oh, wait.

(When talking about this site's Area51 proposal)

:)

Hamlet

06:18

@YvetteColomb so let's not accuse people of acting unilaterally when you also acted unilaterally. Like you all have experience with the network, you all know how meta works.

Zizouz212

@SQB tries not to burst out laughing because everyone in the home is asleep

Yvette Colomb

My apologies to @Zizouz212 and @Catija and everyone else for changing the chat profile and for accusing you of doing things I myself did. You're right it's a double standard

Hamlet

@YvetteColomb thank you.

Yvette Colomb

Personally I don't like the default setting on gender being male - it's about time it changed. Not here - everywhere

Zizouz212

@Hamlet (on a side note) -> interpersonal.stackexchange.com/questions/1307/…

Hamlet

06:27

> I'm voting to close this question as off-topic because it does not specify any cultural details that are relevant to answering the question.

:O

Yvette Colomb

@Zizouz212 omg that question - given I'm on my high horse about gender - there's a guy wanting to know

> How can I tell my girlfriend to do a task when telling her makes her less likely to do it?

Zizouz212

@Hamlet Meh. It's hot. Not sure it will get closed.

Yvette Colomb

@Hamlet I want to vote to close it as I don't like the concept.

SQB

Well, actually reading the question, it isn't bad at all.

And it is squarely on topic.

Perhaps change the title from "girlfriend" to "someone".

Zizouz212

@SQB Just saying off-topic but it's really "too broad"

Hamlet

06:30

@YvetteColomb ugh, I could go on a whole rant about the questions about gender on this site.

SQB

@Zizouz212 what makes it too broad?

Zizouz212

@SQB No! Changes the question completely! It's just missing information that I want for quality - and besides, making it hot isn't a great thing right now...

@Hamlet I read that as rand -> rand'al Thor :P

Yvette Colomb

@SQB yeh, but that's still a can of worms .. it needs to be clearly defined, as it's no one's position anywhere in most people's lives that I know to remind anyone to do things

Hamlet

@SQB well, answers depend on the cultural context/country. Without that info, answers could be about any cultural context. Hence too broad.

Yvette Colomb

Except a PA or a parent

Zizouz212

06:31

@YvetteColomb That sounds like an answer, not a reason for closure

Yvette Colomb

@Zizouz212 lololol

SQB

@YvetteColomb I disagree with that, being on the receiving end of this.

Yvette Colomb

@SQB you are often reminded to do things?

All I'm saying - in my culture - it's a no no - the person would be perceived as controlling or arrogant

SQB

@YvetteColomb Yes. Of things I should do, or should've done. (Full disclosure: I'm male). There are things I agreed to do in the household, but that I either just plain forget, or only think of at inopportune moments. So I need to be reminded, but at the same time dislike being reminded.

I think (or hope) I've fixed it:

8

Q: How can I remind my girlfriend to do a task when reminding her makes her less likely to do it?

I have a bit of a problem with my girlfriend, in that things aren't getting done because she is forgetful about things she doesn't like to do. We've had many discussions on the topic, and we both agree these are things that need to be done, and she agrees that she needs to do them. I do my part t...

conversations behavior difficult-people tasks

Reading the question, it's clear that it's not really telling her to do something, but rather reminding her, which should be all right.

Yvette Colomb

@SQB oh I couldn't stand that - I hate having to remind people to do things - or being reminded lol

SQB

06:37

Also, the question makes it clear that it's about things they've agreed on.

Zizouz212

@YvetteColomb No, I'm serious. A potentially toxic relationship doesn't make a question off-topic - if anything, it would make it more on-topic.

2

SQB

The answer might just be "get a good, shared to-do app".

Yvette Colomb

@SQB yeh, but she hasn't agreed to him reminding her - personally - I could not be in a relationship like that - it reminds me too much of parenting

SQB

Ah, I see the top answer does suggest that.

Yvette Colomb

@Zizouz212 I removed it

@Hamlet it frustrates me and I think as a woman - I see other women, as they get older in our culture get less tolerant of being discriminated against. The discrimination doesn't make us more patient, just angrier. And discrimination can run in many different forms.

SQB

06:42

The top answer really is a good answer.

Also,

@cheshire I agree, but I also don't control the actions of others, and want to see them succeed regardless. The point isn't to judge them on their maturity level, but find a way to work with it as is, as that is something I can control. — Anoplexian 9 hours ago

Zizouz212

Also, SQB, just saying so it doesn't slip off of my mind, but the term 'culture' should be interpreted broadly. e.g. This is how our relationship works, we have 'such and such' for each other and so on... Since we have an "all-relevant-information-inclusion" requirement, I'd rather we hold that standard for all questions, even if it may [in our view] not be completely required.

SQB

@Zizouz212 is that an argument for all locational tags, all the time? Or do you mean something else?

Zizouz212

Not for the tags, but the "cultural" requirements for questions

SQB

Ah, yes, I agree with that.

What I tried to express is that it'll be hard to find good locational tags.

Zizouz212

Oh, that reminds me

I'll probably take it to meta tomorrow, but

53 mins ago, by Zizouz212

@SQB That's been on my mind. 'Country' tags don't work well. I've always preferred having [demonym-culture] e.g. [indian-culture] or [aboriginal-canadian-culture]

SQB

06:52

Exactly that.

Introverted Meta Man.

1

Q: The names and avatars of the chat bots

We currently have two chat bots posting feed into the chat room, The Awkward Silence. Main There's Extroverted Main Man - all the new questions to the main site are posted with this user profile. This is the avatar. Meta There's Introverted Meta Man - all new meta questions are posted with ...

discussion chat

Zizouz212

@IntrovertedMetaMan. Super late to the show pal

Zizouz212