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12:56 AM
"The sink was draining slowly" sounds like a real (as in actual, existing, not as in serious, difficult) problem. — user403 42 secs ago
#13954 user403 (101 rep) | Q: Asking someone to stop something that is technically illegal but don't want to seem like I'm hiding something (score: 31) | posted 22 hours ago by bighouse (502 rep) | edited 2 hours ago by bighouse (502 rep)
Matched regex(es) ["possible-aic"]
 
1:34 AM
@Ash I can totally sympathise with people answering with suggestions that are already explained in the question :D
I had a question where I basically said "this is not a loan, but a gift" and I got 5 answers saying "situations like these loans can be tricky, a great new idea would be to gift it instead! :O"
>_>
 
user15026
I appreciate peopel want to help but I wish they'd read things a little closer.
 
at least you can get some helpful flags :/
 
 
1 hour later…
2:56 AM
0
Q: My mother does not approve of my boyfriend and she is not getting past it

suprita shankarMy mother does not approve of my boyfriend. Emotional Context To provide context - my boyfriend worked with my Mother. She was the executive of the company. I referred my current boyfriend(back then he was my friend) to the company. They hired him. After he started working there we started dati...

 
 
2 hours later…
4:40 AM
The role of DM isn't any more or less fictional than the role of Chief Executive Officer of a company - it's a position of authority which means investing time and effort in the continued well-being of the group of people depending on that person for leadership. Sure, the stakes are different, but if a CEO spends 1-on-1 time helping/training/educating an employee, figuring out their role in the strategic plan, etc., only to have that employee abruptly quit, then yes, some frustration is understandable. OP knows this is real life, the question is how to waste DM's IRL effort without offending. — A C 1 min ago
#13974 A C (101 rep) | A: How to kill off my DnD character, without upsetting the Dungeon Master who has invested time into creating his backstory? (score: 2) | posted 17 hours ago by Astralbee (11762 rep) | edited 14 hours ago by Astralbee (11762 rep)
Matched regex(es) ["+1"]
 
A J
5:39 AM
@apaul o/
 
'ello
 
A J
what's up?
 
Not much, just checking the chatter.
 
6:04 AM
Seems like it may be time to poke a CM...
 
6:16 AM
0
Q: How to tell my GF I´m willing to listen to sensitive topics?

patchAbout us We are a European couple, I´m 23 male and she is 24 female, from Spain. We have been together for about 5 months. Context My girlfriends mother passed away a couple of years ago, and she hasn´t really talked to me too much about her. Some nights ago, while we were in bed about to slee...

0
Q: Sudden romantic feelings for long-term friend - how to deal with it

AlvisAlright, I apologize if the question might sound a bit too general. Yet I feel I need advice from the outside, so... Here is the story I am 22 now, and since maybe 13-14 I've been hanging with the same guy in school. We did not have any romantic feelings for each other (whereas he could come to ...

 
@ExtrovertedMainMan Any question that has "deal with" is an immediate red flag indicating that it will probably not have a sufficiently outlined goal. Not that I have read it yet
and it is as I thought, don't worry though I'm on it ;)
 
6:48 AM
It is 34°C inside this bus.
 
Free sauna !
 
7:19 AM
Other than my comment, is there anything else I can do? Insightful answer but because of a small false presumption it is promoting something we really want to discourage on IPS. If OP had given a little more context i'm sure this answer would have been absolutely lovely. interpersonal.stackexchange.com/questions/14018/…
 
what is reflective listening?
 
you reflect what you think is the underlying and explicitly unsaid meaning behind what they are saying to ensure that you are both on the same page
 
ok. so exactly what the name suggests. thx :)
sorry, it's still early in the morning xD
 
I think it is actually EXTRA useful over text since its easier to miss-understand the underlying meaning without body language. Making it feel like unwanted counselling is OBVIOUSLY a bad use of the technique but that doesn't mean we should just dismiss it
this is IPS!
 
agreed
can be very effective to prevent misunderstandings
I also think the question would profit from a nice edit. now it focuses too much on 'is it appropriate?' and 'should I use it?'. Better would be 'How do I use it effectively?'
 
SQB
8:05 AM
35
Q: How to politely tell a friend that I want to hang out with her, but not invite others?

VahnI have a crush on my college friend and want to take her out to cinemas or other places. When I ask her out, she always asks me if her female friend could go along with her. I know it's not a date just hang out together. But, I really only want the two of us. How do I politely tell her about it?

Might need protection, judging be the number of bad / already deleted answers.
I'm voting to close this question as off-topic because it's 1. about an intrapersonal problem (how to deal with this kind of feelings?) and 2. opinion-based (should I try to approach this guy?). Please edit your question, and narrow down to an interpersonal skill to use/improve in order to achieve a clear goal. We can't tell how you should handle your feelings, neither can we make a choice for you. — OldPadawan 2 hours ago
Very good comment and perhaps one to put in a custom VtC: OT reason. It contrasts Interpersonal Skills with Interpersonal Problems.
 
8:27 AM
@SQB interpersonal problems are not off-topic per se. actually, the vast majority of all the questions here are about interpersonal problems, and not about specific skills. This one here is just too broad and primarily opinion based.
 
Agreed, but as you stated : exhausting. It's hard to fight on every fronts... — YCN- 1 min ago
Matched regex(es) ["chatty"]
 
SQB
9:09 AM
Ah, I see @Tinkeringbell has protected it. I think the "answers" need culling as well, but I'm not sure how to proceed.
 
@SQB What do you think needs culling?
 
SQB
@Tinkeringbell I think we could do without some of the chattier answers.
 
@SQB Pick one and gimme a link :P
 
SQB
interpersonal.stackexchange.com/a/14007/146 and down (everything scoring subzero, basically).
I'm not sure if they should be deleted, but that question has a lot of bad answers.
 
@SQB That's what downvotes are for... And comments, if you see anything that can be improved (back-up? Clarification as to why it's different from others?)
Cultural specifics...
etcetera, etcetera... :P
 
SQB
9:22 AM
I guess you're right. I think I've voted down what I could.
 
TBH, I haven't been a big fan of the question from the start.... We had to ask for cultural background (which was provided, that's of course nice) but it already had a boatload of answers when that was given. Now, there's not much room to ask answerers to reconsider their answer, and whether their 'logic' would apply to Malaysia as well .... And there's still a comment asking 'how long has this been going on for', which can be pretty valuable info IMO
 
9:51 AM
@IPSCommentBot go ahead and flag it as nln, together with the comment above it ;)
 
0
Q: How can I politely inform my grandmother that I cannot provide my mother's contact information

DanielMy mother has a strained relationship with her family, particularly her mother. As children, we only met my mother's side of the family on rare occasions and now that my siblings and I are grown, I don't believe my mother is in any kind of communication with her mother or brother. I don't really ...

 
10:33 AM
0
Q: How to say hello without asking "how are you going?"

Tom HaleI try to say what I mean, and mean what I say. Sometimes I just want to say "Hi" or "Hello" without asking the person how they are going. I like to ask how they are or how they are going only when I am genuinely interested in hearing the response. The thing is, if I just say "Hi", it can seem c...

 
11:16 AM
So. Does anyone here have a knowledge of DevOps?
 
nope sry.
How did your presentation go?
 
I think I do but I'm unsure I could call myself a DevOps specialist or something.
 
They're making me write a proposal, and I think the manager is going to get into trouble, but... I'm not sure. As far as I know, if you do DevOps, it means a developer should in principle be able to take on operations tasks, and vice-versa? The manager is like arguing very hard that this isn't really necessary, that a DevOps team is simply some sort of interdisciplinary team, where there are developers and operations people in the same team, but with clearly separated roles and knowledge...
@Cashbee I don't have to present anything, they're just having me write stuff down I don't have any knowledge of. So....
I think he'll get into trouble if he's offering the client a DevOps team, while it's only a multi-disciplinary Agile team, that'll get hold-up if the operations guy takes a holiday (for example)
 
"Offering a DevOps Team"
More like offering a team which happens to follow the DevOps principle.
 
@Loki which doesn't even happen to follow the DevOps principle
 
11:25 AM
I think they call it a DevOps team mostly because it sounds fancy
 
it sounds like specOps
 
"I can propose my Agile Team of C# Gurus to your service"
"Oh and they use blockchain !"
 
devOps guys are military trained and merciless IT nerds
 
They are trained to kill the bugs and clients expectations.
 
@Loki mention blockchain at least 3 times a day = get a raise in a week, tops
 
11:27 AM
Yeah, I guess that's the reason ;-) ... I dunno, I was always taught that if I wanted to be successful in a DevOps team, I'd have to improve my knowledge of things like AWS, automatic deployments and release management...

And that's not what I'm getting from this proposal...
 
@Tinkeringbell I think you should have knowledge of these systems if you want to be able to lead such a team, using them isn't that hard to do and only require minimum understanding of the technology
 
@Loki Sure :). But I'm at the level where I haven't used any of them, I've never set up an automated build or made a release
I'm going to ask on de DevOps SE :P
 
0
Q: How to ask why I was not included without causing a scene?

JaneDoe1337My partner has a friend from way-back, T. We sometimes hang out with him and his family and go on day trips together. I've known them for 5 years but the contact is not always as frequent. While we both ran into T, my partner was invited to a BBQ for T's birthday. He specifically mentioned I sho...

 
11:43 AM
Important to devops is a shared responsibility. If people can "toss it over the wall" and say "that's an ops problem" or "that's a dev problem" you're doing it wrong.
A multidisciplinary team is better than separate dev and ops teams but you still have a separation of responsibilities.
 
@sphennings But, that's kinda exactly what'll happen: A team with different roles, where people can toss it over like 'it's John's problem'
 
11:59 AM
That's a recipe for problems.
 
I know... But he won't listen to me 😬
I guess it's time to just throw all common sense overboard, and just start writing whatever they mananger wants to have in his nice little document. If it gets problems, at least I can tell him 'told you so'
 
I would say "Show dont tell" but I have no idea how to show how this will fail badly.
 
Because I don't want to spend the entire weekend/monday on this as well...
 
A J
evening
 
@AJ heyo
 
12:04 PM
It's still 14:00 in my country
:(
 
A J
lol. it's nothing. it's 12:05 PM for @doppelgreener
 
13:05, we've got daylight savings :)
 
14:08 here :D
 
A J
@doppelgreener Ah. DST. It's quite confusing.
We don't have DST. We have GST.
 
goods & savings time
generally suspicious timekeeping
gargantuan superloud timepieces
 
A J
12:12 PM
@doppelgreener Goods and Service Tax.
 
Sid
@doppelgreener Goods and Services Tax.
 
Personally I'd want to document my issues the managers request, that way when things go bad I wouldn't be held responsible.
 
not goliath's stopwatch (temperamental) then?
i lived in Brisbane up until a couple of years ago, which had GST and no DST :)
 
@sphennings I'm doing this voluntarily: It's not my job to write proposals (I'm a developer). But I'm in between assignments for the moment, hence I had time to help him out when he asked for it. It's documented, I send an e-mail and he replied ;-)
 
Good!
It's 08:15 for me.
 
Sid
12:20 PM
I never understand why the British do what they do. I mean, what's the point of following one time for 8 months in a year and another time for the remaining months?
 
it ain't just the Brits...
lots of places have daylight savings
 
But the Britowan, and the britdrens too.
 
Most of the United States does it. I think most of Europe does as well
 
@Rainbacon Yes :). And for fun facts: When the clock changes an hour here, my brother's shifts move with half an hour (later/earlier, depending on the change). He's a zookeeper, and apparently the animals can't take an hours change in feeding times :D
 
@Tinkeringbell That's quite interesting. Do they get fed right at the beginning of his shift?
 
12:29 PM
@Rainbacon No, but they do have 'set' times.
 
Why do they not just shift when in his shift they get fed?
 
He works mainly with the fish, and he says that if you come at the wrong time, the bigger ones won't come up to the platform if it's 'the wrong time'.
I can guess the same goes for the land animals ;-)
 
Interesting
Animals are strange. Fortunately I like strange things
 
@Rainbacon Ermm.... because animals like the giraffes get fed at the end of the day: They get their food in their stables, so they come in voluntarily ;). If you change that too much, it apparently causes stress
 
I think many countries that have a DST have been considering to disestablish it, but it is not so easy to get rid of because of (amongst other reasons) the massive amount of IT systems that would need changes.
I can't back that up though, I just heard this somewhere
 
12:37 PM
@apaul @apaul I know HOW to deescalate. I just often choose not to ;)
@Cashbee DST is utter nonsense, it was obsolete before it was even implemented.
 
@Cashbee When I was growing up my state didn't do daylight savings time but all of the others did. I liked not switching the clock, though it meant that the TV schedules switched twice a year.
 
12:52 PM
21 messages moved to Trash
 
Why do I not have a button to remove my messages?
Is there a period of time after which I can't delete them?
 
2 minutes
If you need something older than that deleted, raise a custom mod flag on it and ask
or ping a friendly neighborhood mod
 
@Rainbacon you can edit or delete your message in a 2-minute window unless your name suffocates and turns blue
 
Ah, I was going to remove my flag-plz reply to IPSCommentBot since the message got deleted, but it's not a huge deal
 
are you telling me I'm dead?
 
12:58 PM
omae wa mou shindeiru
 
@Rainbacon the message was moved, so if you click on the reply arrow thingy, it'd throw you in trash so you can see the message
 
then how are you still typing
 
@Loki nani???!
 
@Tinkeringbell I just saw your question about devOps. I can give you a bit of context as to how I've seen it used in industry. For context, I am a consultant and have worked for a variety of clients in a few different industries. At every client I've been at, devOps has been used to refer to a team of people who are in charge of managing the relationship between hardware and software.
Essentially, they handle code deployments, environment configurations, server upgrades, etc... As far as I can tell, that's not the point of devOps. I think a lot of companies heard the term and just renamed their operations team.
Part of me really wants to tell this person to tell her friend that she pities the fool who doesn't invite her to his BBQ
 
1:17 PM
@sphennings could you please take a look on my edited answer?
 
@Marcus I'll take a look at it in a little bit.
@Marcus To me it would be much clearer if you removed everything you've added except that last paragraph.
 
@RichardU On SE, that's... generally not the recommended course of action.
 
@sphennings if i remove that can i restore it in case someone views it different? if so i'll shorten the answer. feels bad since i put in effort
 
@sphennings @Marcus funnyly enough, I think the exact opposite. I think the last paragrahp makes a lot of assumptions. it could use some sources. I thought the answer was very nice until i read the last paragrahp. not only bc beforementioned reasons but also because I think I did not completely understand what you mean.
 
@Marcus You can view the entire edit history of a post by clicking on the link that says "edited 20 minutes ago" at the bottom.
That also allows you to revert posts to previous edits.
 
1:28 PM
i'll set up a poll and edit the post according to the winning opinion Kappa
 
@Marcus Don't set up a poll.
 
This situation does not require ultra-detailed explanations of it's phychological background.
@Marcus KappaRoss
 
@Cashbee i see your point and agree.
 
@Mithrandir deescalating is not the recommended course of action? COOL!!!!!
 
... I meant psychological ofc. too late to edit
@Marcus oh and my last nitpick: your formatting is a bit aggressive, so many headings.. ;)
 
1:33 PM
not enough headings
 
I think that I may be personally keeping the pharmaceutical industry afloat. :(
 
0
Q: Am I the only one out there that accualy care for closed topics?

YCN-It's been few week that I'm reading posts here, but unfortunately it seems that a lot of the interesting one get closed down. Either for being to broad or intrapersonal instead of interpersonal, but why shouldn't this forum be broader ? People come to seek for help regarding their relation, why...

 
@Cashbee feel free to edit the format into defensive stance for -10% downvotes received :-)
 
@Marcus so.. 0.1 less downvotes? that will be hard to achieve :D
I don't think the amount of DVs is stores as Double/Float.
 
how about a 10% blockchance then (DV doesnt hit)? shields up
 
1:39 PM
@Marcus sure, I'm in.
rolls 1 D20
 
You know, Frankenstein doesn't scare me. Marsupials do.
 
@Marcus hehe I was just about to save my edit. your's is better ;)
 
@Cashbee im not sure about swapping the italic and normal part. usually italic is meant for comment, isnt it?
 
@Marcus there is no definition for when to use italic. Use italic where it makes sense to you. I think it's fine in this case, seeing how you used the quote-formatting already for phrasing examples and bold was used enough already too
 
1:59 PM
@IntrovertedMetaMan. can't help but laugh and think of this whenever someone says "I am the only person who _"
 
@Rainbacon Yeah, that's kind of the impression I get here too: There'll be 1 team, that will be responsible for all of it. Except that within that team, the roles are still so very much separated and defined that it's still going to be 'John's problem, Jane's job'... instead of saying 'I can do that'.
@IntrovertedMetaMan. Why is that so heavily downvoted though?
 
@Jesse i always expect a moral argument to be following
 
@Tinkeringbell Probably because the question is taking a position on the issue that a large number of people disagree with.
 
@sphennings That's.... ideally only used for feature requests :/. But yeah, maybe.
 
@Tinkeringbell Because the question is essentially "I think interpersonal skills should not be the only thing on topic for IPS"
 
2:02 PM
I think the downvotes are opinion votes indicating that the user feels the closed questions deserve to be closed. We all know that a large number of people end up disagree/agree voting rather than voting to indicate content problems
 
@Tinkeringbell when i was reading the question i translated it to "you guys are heartless people, you should be ashamed for not helping those in need"
 
@Jesse Downvotes shouldn't be used to indicate that a question should be closed.
That's what close votes are for.
 
@sphennings not what I was saying
 
> People come to seek for help regarding their relation, why are those off topic when people are not here only about their interpersonal relation.
That's just asking, why are these things off topic if so many people want to ask about them
 
@sphennings "the questions" as in the questions the one meta post was referring to. Not just any old question they think should be closed. Downvoted the META because they disagree with it.
 
2:05 PM
2
Q: Co-worker is too offensively trying to make friends

IanWe have a new colleague. He comes from another region (same country: Germany) and is rather outgoing: He talks a lot (sometimes too much), is generally very friendly and is rather cheerful. He moved here, which means he has (to my knowledge), no social contacts here besides us. The problem is: E...

 
@Jesse I see. You were talking about the specifics of why people were downvoting that question.
 
Everyone always tries to make the moral argument. What about the amoral one?
 
Thanks for clarifying.
@RichardU That's still a moral argument.
 
8
Q: Voting on meta-questions

DanielI have a question about voting in meta on Questions I read several comments now stating something like: Note that on meta, votes are typically interpreted differently, since they do not come with a reputation benefit/penalty. Down votes frequently indicate general disagreement. On the other h...

 
@Tinkeringbell I really should compose my thoughts and add an answer to that.
 
2:06 PM
@sphennings Yeah, because right now it's advocating that if you ask a question, it shouldn't be downvoted into oblivion.... ;)
 
@Jesse good edit, thank you.
 
@RichardU Thanks xD I thought it really pointed into the spot OP had wrong
 
Since many questions on meta already take a position, it's a bit clunky to add an answer saying "I agree with the OP" and restating the arguments already provided unless the OP missed a particular point. Because of this there often isn't an answer supporting the OP's position to downvote, just answers disagreeing with the OP.
Am I making sense with that?
 
@Jesse it's a shame it's getting down-voted (the question) because it is a sentiment shared by many. Unfortunately, that sentiment has been the mischievous little hobgoblin that has been plaguing this site since it's inception.
 
@RichardU Has that question been asked before?
 
2:10 PM
@sphennings Yes, but... it still doesn't really rectify downvoting (to me)
 
@sphennings I don't think it has been put so succinctly before if it has, but it does speak to a core issue of this site. The urge to help people versus what this site was set up to be.\
 
> One of the first things I was taught about using meta was that it's important to keep your question and your opinion on the matter you're questioning apart from each other. For me, only then can I properly make the distinction between voting solely on the question or voting for my opinion on the matter discussed.
 
@Tinkeringbell This would be less of a "We should do this!" answer and more of an explanation of why the behavior will occur.
I think the best way to try to avoid it is to try to have a neutral tone on meta questions.
 
@RichardU It... has certainly been mentioned and argued in comments over and over and over and ..
But I don't really know an answer that says 'no, that's not our goal' ;)
 
@RichardU I know I've had many arguments in the comments about it. Do you know if there's a duplicate meta question.
 
2:13 PM
how about questions have two votings 1:question quality 2:Agree/Disagree devils advocate
 
Perhaps someone should attempt to create a cannonical meta question for the issue. Asking "Why is the site policy the way it is?"
 
oh and same goes for answers
 
@Marcus I'm not a fan of devil's advocate answers. They tend to be argumentative for the state of being argumentative and not actually adding anything productive to the table.
 
@Marcus We already have the ones for quality 😉
 
Welcome to IPS-Meta. Critique is not welcome and since mainly the same users that moderate the site are active here, every critical question gets down voted and answered with a set of the same standard-replys. — Daniel 57 secs ago
rolls eyes
 
2:26 PM
@Tinkeringbell we do but maybe ppl perceive them as one of those two, depending on personal view
 
@Cashbee HAH! yes, the users who have been around for a while and know the rules somehow end up repeating those rules over and over to new users who don't know which way is up. You are right Daniel, they sound like such patient and lovely people I think they deserve a pat on the back ;)
 
@Cashbee that comment hits too close to home
 
@Marcus if you have users telling you the same advice over and over then maybe you should look into reading through the help section to understand what it is they are talking about
 
@Jesse new users aren't 'foolish' 😉 What if a new user walks in here and sees that?
And the user that made that comment has been around for long enough not to be a 'new user' anymore...
 
@Tinkeringbell I would assume that they'd feel foolish
 
2:33 PM
the funniest part of that comment is that those users actually upvoted the question to compensate for the many DVs of others xD
 
@RichardU ahah, but no @Tinkeringbell I did not mean that all new users are foolish. there are plenty of great new users. and anyway all I meant by "foolish" is that they don't know every rule on the site.
 
@Jesse right. The correct term is that new users are ignorant.
 
@Jesse I'd go with 'unknowing' then personally. Foolish does carry a pretty heavy negative association ;)
 
@Tinkeringbell I will never get the knack of how people get offended by words that are accurately descriptive.
 
@RichardU Yeah, I had to learn it the hard way too. Did you ever look at the edit history of my first question?
 
2:37 PM
@RichardU There are plenty of ways to be very hurtful while just speaking the truth.
 
It takes some time, but ... that's the second layer of language you don't learn in class.
 
You'll end up making a fool of yourself if you foolishly make the foolish assumption that all new users are fools.
 
There are ways to express the same sentiment, still speaking the truth, without being hurtful.
 
> Flee, you fools!
 
*fly
 
2:39 PM
The comment kinda deserved a little negative association, sounded to me like an "its everyone elses fault but mine" sentiment... if everyone is having to regularly tell them to do the same stuff over and over then perhaps its time to take a look at yourself instead of blaming the people who have been putting in effort to be patient and helpful with you
 
@Mithrandir wait what
I can see you are correct, but that makes no sense xD
in german, it's flee
 
fly is interchangable with flee
 
@Jesse And this is probably the reason why it's a bad idea to pick on specific comments in a public chatroom to begin with, other than 'what's the best way to reply to this' ;-)
 
@Jesse TIL thx
 
@sphennings If the truth hurts, who's fault is it?
 
2:40 PM
(Or can I get flags, or 'can someone step in here?')
@RichardU Well, if we're going to anthropomorphise truth to the point that it can hurt, I'd take it further and say it can take the blame as well...
 
@RichardU There are many ways of wording things. Some are more hurtful than others. It's up to the speaker to choose their words carefully and be responsible for their decisions.
 
@Tinkeringbell What I really wanted to do was lift up/defend the people they were blaming and putting down
 
Interesting thing about the word fool, it has a rich history and the tarot card "The Fool" simply means untapped potential.
@sphennings what responsibility does the listener have?
 
@Tinkeringbell it was me who linked the comment here. I wanted to put some attention to it but I forgot ask you to step in
 
@Jesse I get that (You weren't the one that posted the comment in the first place ;-) @Cashbee! don't do that again :P).
 
2:42 PM
@RichardU To make a good faith attempt to determine what the speaker intended to say.
 
@Cashbee Ah, look, now we're getting somewhere ;). I'll go and take a peek at what I can do :)
 
@Tinkeringbell will keep it in mind
 
@sphennings that's not much responsibility, is it?
 
nothing wrong with a good bit of complaining
 
@Cashbee Just... ask instead of eye-rolling ;-)
 
2:43 PM
@sphennings though, that does explain quite a bit about the current state of affairs.
I've noticed that I get into far more trouble speaking the truth than I do by deceiving.
 
@RichardU Communication isn't deterministic and predictable. Both parties can at best only make a good faith attempt to communicate clearly and interpret that communication correctly. Mistakes will be made.
 
@Jesse Err... seen the blog posts from SE and the discussions on MSE lately? We all need to be bit nicer, so if we can minimize the complaining in chatrooms to what is absolutely necessary and preferably constructive, that'd be nice :)
 
An historical note. In the Eddas, Loki was only hunted down and punished by the gods the one time he spoke the truth.
 
Is someone is hurt by what you've said hiding behind "I was only speaking the truth" is a poor defense.
 
@sphennings why?
 
2:45 PM
This is assuming that you aren't wanting to hurt people.
 
"The sting of a rebuke is the truth within"
@sphennings I don't like to hurt people, but I am very good at it.
 
@RichardU Because it implies that it isn't your duty to make a good faith attempt to not hurt them.
 
@Tinkeringbell I saw a few related things. I did not see anywhere indicating there was a problem with our chat though. Just response to comments and answers
 
@sphennings How am I, or anyone else to know what will hurt someone?
unless you crystal ball is better than mine.
I would cede the point that one should not be malicious.
 
@RichardU Note how I'm using the phrase "good faith attempt" a lot
 
2:46 PM
@Jesse Nah, chat is getting some scrutiny too: meta.stackexchange.com/questions/309645/…
 
@sphennings yes, I noticed, I just don't put stock in that phrase as it means nothing.
What is good faith anyway?
Is not being deliberately malicious good faith?
 
@Tinkeringbell ooooooo my
 
@RichardU You were just the other day talking about how people should assume good faith more often.
 
If you have the 10k rep networkwide, you can see chat flags. I've seen them more frequently since that MSE post ;)
 
@sphennings no, assume good intentions, there is a difference.
 
2:48 PM
So if I'm coming across as more strict... well, I want this place to succeed 😛 To be a model citizen XD
 
@sphennings if we're talking about good faith, then I should be allowed to be far more offensive than most as most of the time, I do not intend to offend.
so, going by that, am I not acting in good faith?
 
Not at all.
 
@sphennings but I'm acting in good faith.
@sphennings “Do not correct a fool or he will hate you; correct a wise man and he will appreciate you.” – Proverbs 9:8
 
In this hypothetical, Are you really?
 
@sphennings yes. I rarely act in malice, and when I do it is with great cause and little mercy.
 
2:52 PM
@Tinkeringbell ahah im definately not a model citizen, I do a few of the things mentioned in that meta :D When there is something outrageous I have often brought it up in chat to vent and feel like ive got some support. Which includes linking and saying why I don't like it... I have been extra careful being nice in Questions Answers and Comments but have been going rampant in chat :D I am the problem :O
 
Good faith/intentions here mean that people point out to a user that what they have said may have been a perfectly accurate description, but that the word used holds a negative connotation as well. Instead of outright kick-muting the person for it, they get a gentle correction.

It doesn't mean they get away with e.g. using rude language. It does mean it can be handled differently, if the people on the other side shows they're willing to accept this gentler form of moderation, and shows improvement after that.
2
 
@sphennings I stress and keep stressing to assume good intentions because it is the only thing in your power to control.
@Tinkeringbell what is one getting away with?
 
@Jesse Don't worry, I'm pretty sure TAS is still in the 97 percent that's a great place to hang out in ;-).
@RichardU Better?
 
@Tinkeringbell I'm confused.
oh, nevermind!
I get it now.
 
@RichardU (I'm kinda happy with abusing that 'moderator can always edit a chat message' privilege XD). Sorry, next time, I'll answer directly.
 
2:55 PM
@RichardU I don't disagree that assuming good faith is important. It lets people who accidentally do something hurtful, be given a chance to learn from their mistakes. However if someone doesn't learn from their mistakes, and repeats the behavior, it becomes harder and harder to assume good intentions. In this context acting in good faith is making the attempt to change your behavior once something is pointed out.
 
@Tinkeringbell I agree. and in so doing, it takes the p1ss out of the trolls, as they want a fight, and it spares the feelings of one who simply chose poorly.
@sphennings I'm very active with autistic and brain injured people, including myself and members of my family. Some people don't learn right away, so continuing to assume good intentions is not a bad thing. Now, if someone RESISTS correction, that is a different thing entirely.
BTW, this conversation is highlighting why many of us who are on the spectrum feel like we landed on the wrong planet (This is not an accusation, I'm pointing out the differences in cognition)
Perhaps the most useless phrase to ever use on me, at least, is "how would you feel if...." as the answer would most likely not be what you expect.
 
@RichardU How do you feel about me asking you this question?
 
@RichardU How would you feel if you were a unicorn?
 
I knew this coming from miles away
 
@Marcus ahaha
 
3:01 PM
And i was resisting.
 
@RichardU What I've been describing is assuming a neurotypical person. If someone is having difficulty learning/changing their behavior I think this should be communicated and people can be more patient/lenient in the future.
 
@Cashbee I assume, with my horn, as it would be the front most appendage.
 
@RichardU I see what you did there
 
@sphennings which brings my back to the importance of assuming good intentions. It's what you can control. As an added bonus, it frustrates trolls.
@Cashbee the funny thing is that growing up, I'd answer questions like that for real and was assumed to be a smartass. So I hid my literalism by learning what a smart ass was. Then when I screwed up, people assumed I was clever instead of retarded.
 
@RichardU There are other types of problematic individuals besides trolls.
 
3:07 PM
@RichardU Yet your feet would always be on the ground, while your horn wouldn't. Are you saying you wouldn't have any feeling for the terrain you're walking on?
@sphennings True, and they get frustrated too. I've seen that happening before. Just be nice, and if someone isn't showing improvements after several nice attempts, there's now 4 moderators that can handle the flags ;)
 
@sphennings what does problematic mean, and what types do you mean?
 
@RichardU People that aren't trolling, but still think they're right and the rest wrong, and that are being rude about that, even after having been explained the rules and reasonings a lot of times?
 
@Tinkeringbell the main diffenrece being that trolls do it intentionally
 
@Tinkeringbell ah, I get it now. Thank you. That's another thing I have a hard time with. My skills are a bit scattershot.
 
Anonymous
And now, there is an awkward silence in here.
 
3:17 PM
@IceInkberry only because you just made it awkward by saying that it is awkward. noooooooooo
@IceInkberry Good day to you
 
@IceInkberry Nah, that's only on weekends. Then this is a desolate place, where only the comment bot posts a message every 2 hours 😉
Hello! Welcome to the Interpersonal Skills chatroom. Feel free to break the awkward silence, maybe with a big celebrations of International StarWars Day? May the Fourth be with you! (And I've gotta run, they tasked me with cooking dinner tonight. We'll catch up later! :P)
 
@Tinkeringbell have a nice weekend
 
@Cashbee Hah, I'll be back in no-time after dinner 😛 See ya! :D
 
@Tinkeringbell Well, I will be gone by then ;)
 
One thing I have a problem with is while I do understand many things about interpersonal interaction, they've all been learned by rote, and so I understand WHAT but not the why, and because of this, I find that I cannot extrapolate concepts, but must rather learn and memorize.
This results in people thinking I am more of a smartass than I actually am
Example: someone might say "Don't put that there! " when they mean "put it away", but I take it literally and don't put it where they pointed to, but put it somewhere else which is also not away.
 
3:25 PM
@RichardU Problematic: "a thing that constitutes a problem or difficulty."
 
@Tinkeringbell must implement a function for if the child room is quiet for long enough to send out a randomized message to break the silence
 
@Mithrandir that would be awesome
in theory
 
@RichardU Unless your definition of troll is any problematic person online, there are going to be people who aren't trolls who are still a problem. What is your definition of troll?
 
Mithrandir has added an event to this room's schedule.
3
 
@sphennings I'd love it if the word "problematic" would be forever cast from the lexicon. It is about the most vague term possible.
A user who has difficulty in English could be a problem.
 
3:33 PM
@Feeds runs
 
@Feeds uuuhm.. what?
mutiny? for real, @Mithrandir?
 
@sphennings not everyone who creates a problem is disruptive and not everyone who is disruptive is a troll.
So when I said that assuming good intentions frustrates trolls, I meant that it frustrates trolls.
 
@Cashbee Of course. Feel free to remove it, though. (This is a reference to something that happened... April 25)
 
@RichardU In this case the vagueness is intentional. I'm not talking about severity, or specifics.
 
@Mithrandir I am not aware of the happenings of April 25th. I am assuming good faith and will let it pass, hoping @Tinkeringbell intervenes if this is some shenanigans
 
3:39 PM
@RichardU Unfortunately there are more than trolls that cause problems on this site, so only discussing solutions that work for trolls is insufficient.
 
Apr 25 at 18:23, by Tinkeringbell
Hi @MatthewBarclay! Sad to say, you just missed the regular mutiny :D but welcome to the IPS chatroom :)
Anyway, it is an attempt at some levity. If it's unappreciated, feel free to prevent mutiny :P
 
@sphennings one size fits none. Assuming good intentions avoids the games that trolls play. As for other difficulties, give me time. I will find the answers.
 
@RichardU It seems to be a common point that you come back to "Assume good intentions it frustrates the trolls"
 
@sphennings do you disagree?
@Mithrandir I'm sorry, did I hear eight bells being sounded?
 
@RichardU Just making an observation. If I disagreed with you I'd let you know.
 
3:48 PM
@sphennings but it's more than that. It gives you peace of mind. If you assume good intentions, then if you're wrong, at worst, someone can be corrected later, at best it stops ill intent.
in any event it avoids unnecessary conflict.
I've had far too much of the necessary kind to indulge in the unecessary
 
Anonymous
@Cashbee Haha, good day to you to! :D
 
4:38 PM
@Mithrandir It has my blessing 😉 I like it
Although it kinda needs people other than moderators to register for it to be a real mutiny :P
 
5:08 PM
I'd like some extra eyes on this one: interpersonal.stackexchange.com/q/13889/1599... I'm thinking it lacks a whole lot of detail, enough to warrant a closure?
 
@Tinkeringbell I agree that it needs more detail. I'm not sure about closing it though. I don't think any of our close reasons really fits it
 
@Rainbacon For not enough detail, you can pick 'unclear what you're asking' > "Or add additional details to clarify what you need"
 
Close, then edit, then reopen
 
It just picked up a CV for off topic. That's definitely the wrong close reason
 
@Rainbacon That's... indeed not the correct one. But if enough people pick unclear, that's the reason that will show up ;)
 
5:13 PM
I gave it an unclear and tossed an upvote at your comment
I'm not sure if the OP will do anything with it though. They've already accepted an answer and the other comment asking for more information has been sitting there for over 24 hours without being addressed.
 
@Rainbacon Which is... kinda weird because they did respond to a comment asking for clarification on their location ;). Maybe they're not here every day
 
Last seen 6 hours ago
I guess we shall see
 
5:57 PM
0
Q: Is there a procedure in place to refer people to professional help

Richard UI've noticed posts on suicide, abuse, potentially dangerous situations, lovelorn questions, and some posts referring to behavior where professionals should be called in ASAP. Should these questions be shut down quickly and are there resources we know of which may be of service to these people th...

 
 
2 hours later…
8:23 PM
0
Q: How to get rid of an unwanted gift from in-laws without hurting feelings?

BenA few months ago, my wife's father and his girlfriend told us they wanted to get us a big leather chair for Christmas. We didn't really want a leather chair, nor did we have anywhere to put it, so we told them "We really appreciate the offer, but don't really have room for that right now. If yo...

 
 
1 hour later…
9:42 PM
1
Q: Can question #13889/455 be reopened?

OldPadawanHow to politely tell a friend that I want to hang out with her, but not invite others? This question has been closed as unclear what you're asking. The reason seems rather weird to me, because OP has explained a problem, a goal to achieve, and asked a question related to IPS. It's nicely and c...

 
0
Q: How to assert a friendship relation

aretuyiHow should i assert whether a friend is no longer interested in keeping a relation ? similar: How to find out if a friendship is really being shut down? but a different context 'single friend, with a good relation, for 5 years'. also i should include that we live in the same city, knows that ...

 
10:32 PM
Hi users, I have a question that may be a bit subjective, but I feel awful about it and I have to stop it from happening in the future.
Today, I realized one of my colleagues was being cyberbullied.
All but one of her close friends either was a bystander or actively 'doing' the cyberbullying
I never realized that she was cyberbullied, even though it was obvious:
avoiding hallways, she even used to be one of the most outgoing of our colleagues
How can I stop a situation like this from happening in the future?
(I'm not one of the close friends)
Since I've gotten basic training about this, I felt awful about not being able to use it
 
11:35 PM
0
Q: going to meet the mother of the girl i like

Pirovaldoi asked the girl i like if she wanted to do something in the weekend and she told me she was going to the beach with her mother (she is german) and said i could go too, i asked if it wouldn't be a problem (maybe hoping it was), she said it wasn't. i really want to go but i am extremely nervous, ...

 

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