The Classroom

12:18 AM

I'm so excited that we may be moving on!

I don't want to count chickens before they hatch - RC could come back and say that we are proceeding, but on a slower pace to see if we can keep dialing up activity

Gypsy Spellweaver

@BenI. Considering the time of year relative to the profession, that might not be so bad. Increase the likelihood of a successful Public Beta. Public Beta is virtually an eventually graduated site, but I wouldn't want to end up being the exception to the rule either.

Ben I.

Nice point

Gypsy Spellweaver

I'm not too worried about the pace of the progress, as long as it is progress. :D

Ben I.

I think I'm going to borrow your attitude. ;-)

thesecretmaster

12:33 AM

It seems significant to me that mod nominations didn't open late, in fact they opened early. It wasn't supposed to happen until tomorrow according to the CMs prior answer.

Ben I.

I was a little curious about that myself

Gypsy Spellweaver

I suspect that RC has a checklist of touchstones. Official, or merely what he's found useful. As we reach each touchstone he'll take the next step in the process. The calendar dates may just be either "typical" progress, or deadlines, and maybe both in different cases.

thesecretmaster

Also, I hope our fraud wasnt as bad as the refrenced payumoney proposal. I checked and payumoney reached committment in a month. That's a lot of fake users.

Ben I.

When they got rid of the fraudulent users, it looked to me like there were only 4 left :P

That's probably for the 4 employees that work there ;-)

Gypsy Spellweaver

Other than possibly watching IP addresses a little closer as we move on, I doubt that the incident will have much impact on us. Our progress iwll be based on our actions, not the actions of others who are now gone.

thesecretmaster

12:40 AM

I wish RC was more communicative about what is going on with our site

Gypsy Spellweaver

I think the problem with the payumoney proposal was that absent the abuse votes there was nearly zero support

Ben I.

For now, I'm comfortable with his silence

Partly because I don't think we're in perfect shape to be a public beta yet - we really don't have enough users or questions yet

Gypsy Spellweaver

Think of RC as the instructor in a creative class, and new sites as the students. Provide the guidelines of "art" but let the students find their own expression

Ben I.

@thesecretmaster It occurs to me that, even if you're still a HS student, the training your getting towards being a classroom teacher right now is amazing. While nothing is the same as running your own classroom, you are getting a really heavy dose of teacher perspective

And on this site, it is all from teachers who really want to be good - there are no dinosaurs here

(Dinosaurs are what I call the teachers who check out)

Gypsy Spellweaver

@BenI. :D

Ben I.

12:44 AM

@Gypsy I forget, are you a teacher?

Gypsy Spellweaver

Ex for all practical purposes

Ben I.

What's Ex?

Gypsy Spellweaver

Last class room experience was about ½ decade ago, and that was GED. Last CS related was around a decade ago.

Ben I.

Mike Zamansky isn't posting here much, but he's still watching the site. He's an incredible leader in the field, so I am honored that he replied to my post on his blog!!

Gypsy Spellweaver

High school age is the youngest I've instructed, 85 is the oldest

Ben I.

12:47 AM

I haven't done 85 year olds

But I used to teach piano to kids as young as 5

... Are we getting more fraudulent accounts??

I'm looking at a lot of our recent "users" that have been created, and we're getting small batches of users with 1 point and no other connected sites, and they don't post.

It makes me livid. How can we assess our viability if our numbers don't mean anything?

Gypsy Spellweaver

@BenI. Do you yet have access to IP comparison tools?

Ben I.

I hav enothing

... I suppose they could all be real, if our promotional efforts have just been doing a great job

Thinking through it, they started appearing at around the same time as I was sending out my emails and Peter was starting to tweet, so they could just be folks who want to check us out but otherwise have no SE accounts

Gypsy Spellweaver

With no other site affiliation, they don't have the rep to comment, and may be unsure of how to ask/answer yet. Some, maybe a lot, will be lookers that decide no. Since they must register to even preview, that's to be expected.

Compare the "join" date with the "last seen" metric, and that will help weed out some.

Ben I.

1:05 AM

Did I mention already that I am going to borrow your attitude? ;-)

Gypsy Spellweaver

XD

thesecretmaster

I don't think they're frauds because they have pictures. My guess is they came from one of the other SE sites (maybe though ads) and simply signed up to be able to see what we had.

@BenI. I also get to do a lot of teaching because of what I do at school. Not only teaching web development in a club and java for FIRST in another, but mostly in a different class.

Gypsy Spellweaver

1:28 AM

@thesecretmaster There's nothing wrong with getting experience early. My first gig was teacher's aid in a programming class my during my HS Junior year. They were learning Fortran, and I'd been using it for 8 years by then. I only took the class so I'd have access to the system, not to learn anything from the class. Professor saw that and tagged be to help rather than study.

thesecretmaster

@GypsySpellweaver Hahaha, that's sorta why I'm taking a CS class next year.

Gypsy Spellweaver

Computers are a lot easier to get to now.

thesecretmaster

It's also to show gulp colleges that I have interest.

Gypsy Spellweaver

What interest are you thinking of making your major?

thesecretmaster

Either CS or some other kind of engineering

Gypsy Spellweaver

1:33 AM

excluding the other kind of engineering, CS is a big field.

thesecretmaster

Web development? Still pretty big, but narrower.

I can't figure out if you're trying to mock my text formatting or not...

Gypsy Spellweaver

Have you gotten the course catalogs and degree program descriptions from anywhere yet?

[emphasis mine.]

thesecretmaster

Yeah, but I haven't really looked closely at them. I've been collecting them to go over when the school year ends (in a week).

Gypsy Spellweaver

I thought about saying BIG field

thesecretmaster

Hey...

Gypsy Spellweaver

1:37 AM

Depending on where you're likely to go, start by trying to figure out where your passion lies. Then look at the programs, and their specializations to see where that might fit.

Start with the goal, then build the road.

thesecretmaster

I'm passionate about things I don't want to make a career in. Things related only slightly to CS.

Gypsy Spellweaver

My passion is programming. Every programming job I've had it felt like they were paying me to play and it never felt like work

thesecretmaster

Programming is really exciting and interesting for me also, but I've spent ~4 hours/school day doing this other thing

Gypsy Spellweaver

Then find the road to that, even if it means getting the degree in something else that makes that better, or more fun.

Nothing says you have to be a professional in the field that is your hobby. Likewise, nothing says you can't have professional abilities, just because it is a hobby.

thesecretmaster

1:54 AM

Well, there are a number of things that turn me away from persuing this hobby despite that I already am very close to the professional level. CS is much more attractive as a profession to me.

Gypsy Spellweaver

Does your passion relate to what most of your experience is already?

thesecretmaster

I feel like I'm giving away my school here, but CS=what I want to do, tech theater= what I've been doing on average 4 hours a school day.

I've been doing tech and, y'know, I've gotten kinda attached to after doing it for 3 years. But CS is what I actually want to do with my life

Gypsy Spellweaver

You gave away your school when you linked to your web page ;P Why can't you do the theater scene as hobby and passion, and do the CS (web?) for "profession" at the same time? I'm sure that your contacts, eventually, in the theater realms can also lead to web/CS work, maybe as freelance.

thesecretmaster

Oh true. Whoops. Is that from my profile?

Gypsy Spellweaver

Yes. Some people actually read those.

thesecretmaster

2:01 AM

Ahh that website is embarrassing. It's really a work in progress. I was like "ooo html css ooo" and didn't put content in there. Whoops.

Gypsy Spellweaver

I saw that with the drop-downs. Good framework though. Just need to finish it.

thesecretmaster

That website is what made me hate z-index like never before.

Gypsy Spellweaver

I think that you can find a better tool than z-index now that CSS3 is widely adopted.

thesecretmaster

Yeah, true. But now I've made a workaround, and so why go back and do things the right way?

Just kidding

Gypsy Spellweaver

lol

thesecretmaster

2:06 AM

That is why so much stuff is so screwed up in the theaters at my school.

Gypsy Spellweaver

Schools have been cash-strapped lately as well. Sometimes things just have to "work" until they're beyond repair.

thesecretmaster

@GypsySpellweaver I can't do CS and tech at the same time because I'd have to disappear from my CS job for weeks at a time fairly often because theater is basically 1 week of 12 hour days then a couple hours every night.

Gypsy Spellweaver

Just think of all the things you understand better from working with relics :D

If you do CS as freelance, which is very common for web/programming, then you could control the impact of tech on the CS.

Even travel could be accommodated with that setup.

thesecretmaster

@GypsySpellweaver A thing that happened today: 2 used to be working things, 1 broke. How did we fix it? Swapped the working and not working ones and suddenly both worked. "Don't touch it! It works."

Gypsy Spellweaver

^\o/^

Don't breathe on it either.

I remember the flimsy colored sheets in the spots, brittle as sin.

thesecretmaster

2:11 AM

I don't know about freelance, I'd like the consistency of a steady job, especially if I could work on a bunch of different things in that one job.

Ben I.

There's plenty of money to be made in theater tech, especially for those who can program ;-)

Gypsy Spellweaver

If the job was with someone in the industry, then they'd understand the interruptions

Ben I.

Also, it's a much rarer passion than being on the stage, so it's easier to get employment

Gypsy Spellweaver

Another country heard from :D

Ben I.

I'm heading to bed

thesecretmaster

2:13 AM

@BenI. This is true, but theater is very much about connections from what I can tell.

Ben I.

You need connections? If we ever meet, I'll see what I can do for you

Gypsy Spellweaver

As much as you've done so far connections aught to come easy to you.

thesecretmaster

Goodnight.

Gypsy Spellweaver

NN Ben

Ben I.

I'm not well-connected in that world, but I know a few folk

l8r everyone

Gypsy Spellweaver

2:15 AM

Was thinking @thesecretmaster would have theater connections after all his work so far.

thesecretmaster

Well, it's mostly curricular. I have some friends going into tech though, so maybe I will have connections.

Gypsy Spellweaver

Odds are that there's been a few from "the scene" who've been around, maybe unnoticed, that have seen who does what in productions. I bet the instructor know a few as well.

one good word is all it takes.

thesecretmaster

I guess so. Also, tech has been useful because I've learned a whole lot of stuff "the hard way." I learned that by not asking questions to look competent, you can kill someone. If you don't test the things you make, you can kill someone. If you don't do it right the first time it'll never get done right, and you can kill someone. Also workplace etiquette, interviewing, advocating for myself, budgeting, etc. Also, I almost forgot listening.

Gypsy Spellweaver

All very good take-aways :)

I'll add in a twist on one of those too. If you don't have time to do it right, when will you have time to fix it?

thesecretmaster

What is this "fixing" you speak of? I only know of "working around the broken part".

In terms of my future career, I think I'm just going to take it one step at a time. I'll try to go to a good college that has decent CS/Engineering departments but also has an OK theater program. In college, I'll figure out what I want to do within CS/Engineering and if I want to do tech. Then I'll be all set.

Gypsy Spellweaver

2:35 AM

Colleges are used to students changing majors and minors. Happens a lot as they explore more in fields.

thesecretmaster

Speaking of tech and CS, the eOS CLI for programming lights is so un-*nix that I really dislike working with it. If any *nix wizards have extra time, a CLI for the DMX protocol would be amazing.

Gypsy Spellweaver

I know nothing about DMX, not even what it is, but, just for GP have you looked in the CPAN repository for a Perl module to handle DMX?

thesecretmaster

GP? CPAN?

There is a C open source library, but I can't really figure out how to use it.

github.com/OpenLightingProject

Gypsy Spellweaver

2:50 AM

GP: general principles. CPAN: Comprehensive Perl Archive Network. (like AUR for the Perl language)

thesecretmaster

I have not. I'm going to sleep now, I'll look into it tommarow. Thanks for an interesting conversation!

Gypsy Spellweaver

@thesecretmaster Looks like something to watch. At least the OLA project. Once you're more proficient at writing programs, you could use that to "abstract" the equipment, and write programs, or modules, to control the equipment.

NN

Henry WH Hack v2.0

8:52 AM

@GypsySpellweaver Are you in?

Gypsy Spellweaver

so far.

Henry WH Hack v2.0

Ok

Gypsy Spellweaver

Every once in a while I restart the browser to clear out memory leaks, but in essence this tab is open 24/7

Henry WH Hack v2.0

I am planning on becoming a: ___________

fill in the blank.

Gypsy Spellweaver

grown up

Henry WH Hack v2.0

8:55 AM

No

Gypsy Spellweaver

Good choice, it ain't no fun 'P

programmer?

Henry WH Hack v2.0

Well I am still a teen so. ;)

@GypsySpellweaver no

network engineer?

No

entrepreneur?

8:59 AM

@GypsySpellweaver no

Gypsy Spellweaver

custodian?

Henry WH Hack v2.0

Want the answer?

Gypsy Spellweaver

Sure, run out of guesses anyway.

Henry WH Hack v2.0

Are you sure?

@GypsySpellweaver Ok the answer is:

Gypsy Spellweaver

Is RightGuard close enough, or does it have to be Sure?

Henry WH Hack v2.0

9:02 AM

I am planning on becoming a SE community moderator also know as a moderator.

Gypsy Spellweaver

kewl

Here, or IoT?

Henry WH Hack v2.0

Well maybe on IoT.

Gypsy Spellweaver

You've been doing a lot of work on Ask Ubuntu too.

Henry WH Hack v2.0

@GypsySpellweaver ?

I only really do well edits and flagging

And I never have done those things in a while.

Gypsy Spellweaver

That's examples of how well you understand the community and it's standards.

IoT would be a lot less work, I imagine. Smaller is easier. Bonus is you get to help it grow and keep it nice instead of trying to clean up so many messes in a large site.

Henry WH Hack v2.0

9:09 AM

@GypsySpellweaver I have a plan to become a mod on a future SE site.

Gypsy Spellweaver

Is that site in Area 51 yet?

Henry WH Hack v2.0

Well when it comes.

VR.SE?

Maybe

Gypsy Spellweaver

Is that virtual reality?

Henry WH Hack v2.0

yeah

Gypsy Spellweaver

Is that for the 3D head gear type virtual reality, or things like Second Life?

Henry WH Hack v2.0

9:13 AM

106

Virtual and Augmented Reality

Proposed Q&A site for questions relating to products such as the HTC Vive, Oculus Rift, Microsoft HoloLens, and other Virtual / Augmented Reality devices.

Currently in definition.

Or maybe I can become a mod on my own proposed Area51.SE site.

Gypsy Spellweaver

Ok, the first type.

If it's one you propose, not likely to be anyone who cares about it more than you.

Makes you a perfect choice for mod

Henry WH Hack v2.0

111

Weapons

Proposed Q&A site for weapon experts and enthusiasts to ask Questions and get Answers about any type of weapon, from ancient edged weapons and archery to guns and modern tactical or strategic military systems.

Currently in definition.

Gypsy Spellweaver

Nice.

Henry WH Hack v2.0

Yes just 17 more to go.

@GypsySpellweaver Can you please do some voting on some questions if you are interested?

The ones that are below 10 upvotes.

I am not saying serial vote but vote if you want to.

Gypsy Spellweaver

How many commitments does it take to reach beta?

Henry WH Hack v2.0

9:18 AM

@GypsySpellweaver Well it depends.

Gypsy Spellweaver

I see

200 of any kind

100 with 200+ rep elsewhere

Henry WH Hack v2.0

Gypsy Spellweaver

Ironic. That would be a bad one for me to join.

Henry WH Hack v2.0

9:33 AM

@GypsySpellweaver I am your master!

You are under my control!

Gypsy Spellweaver

I doubt that. :D Not even my mother could control me. ;P

Henry WH Hack v2.0

You will tell the Journeyman Geek Hi.

thesecretmaster

10:42 AM

The number of questions really does seem to be declining now.

5 in 48 hours

Henry WH Hack v2.0

11:51 AM

1 hour later...

Ben I.

Well, there was 0 in one of those 24 hours, so that means 5 in 24

Clearly, we're on our way back up ;-)

Henry WH Hack v2.0

12:48 PM

@BenI. nice ;)

Itamar Green

1:21 PM

I sure hope so.

Peter

3:39 PM

Our user count is up 50 over the past few days and our page views are now averaging triple digits again

2

Great work to all on our promotion efforts

Henry WH Hack v2.0

Nice

thesecretmaster

Wooo!

Peter

4:06 PM

Anyone have the link to CS.SE's Twitter?

Aurora0001

CS Stack Exchange

@StackCompSci, The Stack Exchange network

A Q&A site for students, researchers and practitioners of computer science

9.9k tweets, 191 followers, following 0 users

Peter

Thanks!

Aurora0001

But, be aware that it's an automated account and not monitored by humans as far as I know

Peter

Gotcha - just wanted to follow it from our account

Aurora0001

4:34 PM

Fantastic work with the Twitter account and promotion, by the way

Peter

Thank you

I think it's been a good way just to get our name out there

Itamar Green

5:18 PM

It is a very good way.

Henry WH Hack v2.0

@Aurora0001 nice

Ben I.

Here's a question for the wisdom of the room. How do we deal with a poster like Oli?

He just joined and answered 5 questions all at once - great!

But the posts are nearly incomprehensible

I left a comment on the most recent one asking him to go back and edit his answers

I'm reticent to downvote, because we want to encourage new users, but I also know that this is what downvoting is for

What do you folks think?

Also, I'm hoping to ping @Gilles and @Aurora0001, since they clearly have a lot of experience

Henry WH Hack v2.0

Oli Howson

11 1

This guy?^

Ben I.

Yes

Aurora0001

Just having a look through his recent posts; I'll let you know what I think in a minute

Sean Houlihane

5:28 PM

Edit to improve readability, or comment saying 'this looks like more of a comment than an answer'. Just not everywhere!

Aurora0001

I can't say any of them are particularly low quality

They aren't particularly long/complex answers, but I mostly see what he's saying

Ben I.

It's not that the content is (necessarily) bad - it's that the writing is careless and poor quality

Sean Houlihane

Edit queue, if anyone cares to take a look at my efforts... Won't be upset if you reject...

Ben I.

That went fast - I didn't even get to see :)

Peter

5:45 PM

I agree with @Aurora0001. We can guide with comments, but they also look like posts you'd find at the bottom of a SO question: they simply stay at the bottom based on votes or lack thereof. That's the SE model at work.

Thanks for the edits, @SeanHoulihane.

Sean Houlihane

The 'anyone can edit' model is quite powerful as a training tool. I intentionally put lots of typos in my posts to encourage others to edit them for me :)

thesecretmaster

7:19 PM

I wonder why nobody else got nominated today

Ben I.

Aurora doesn't want it, and Sean and Gypsy haven't indicated any interest in moderating so far. I could be forgetting someone, but it seems like a lot of the heavy-hitters have been accounted for.

thesecretmaster

I guess so.

Peter

Could also be that of those active posters consensus has been reached

thesecretmaster

?

Peter

i.e. everyone approves of how it stands

thesecretmaster

7:31 PM

Oh. I feel like the SE overlords will reject me because it'd be a bit wierd to have a HS student moderating teachers, so that would leave it as Ben, Peter and Itamar.

Peter

It's not so much moderating teachers as it is moderating the site itself

thesecretmaster

Well, the sites target audience is teachers

Peter

Yes, but the SO philosophy doesn't change from site to site

A broad question is a broad question

Aurora0001

I'm aware of multiple mods that are quite young, so I don't think age is a concern really.

As long as you have the right qualities, and the record to prove it, you're a worthy candidate

thesecretmaster

I certainly think I can do it. But I don't know if I'd be accepted because it's a site for educators.

Ben I.

7:37 PM

Not being an educator means to me that your answers will likely not receive as many votes as someone who has been an educator for decades. But, if the purpose of moderators is to make sure that the site itself remains healthy, then lack of experience as a classroom teacher is not at all a disqualifyer

If you care about the site, and will tend to the site, and will watch the review queues and help with promotions and put your efforts into tending whatever needs tending to, then you are doing the work to keep the resource strong

Peter

I agree with Ben's perspective on this

thesecretmaster

7:59 PM

I guess so.

Itamar Green

Feels good to ask a new question. Finally managed to form it in my h

I'm still not sure I understand where we stand (that is unintentional rhyming) with the beta now...

Thanks, @BenI., For the edit. I'm on mobile now, so typing isn't easy sheepish grin

Ben I.

:)

I also just added some follow-up questions

Peter

Great question for HS-level CS...going to ponder a bit before responding

Ben I.

8:16 PM

It is HS level, though?

Ben I.

8:26 PM

@ItamarGreen Could you edit your question?

thesecretmaster

9:31 PM

This question seems to be on the edge of being primarily opinion based. I haven't close voted because I like the idea of the question, but does it need to be narrowed a bit?

Peter

I would think that there is enough context to give a specific answer. It's a precise enough issue, and I'm sure there is research/experience that can be added. It's on the edge, but I think it leans "Good Subjective"

thesecretmaster

9:47 PM

Wow. We've gotten a hundred new users since Saturday. Either there's new fake accounts, or our promotion efforts are really working. (And by "our" I mean "your" because I haven't been able to do much.) I honestly think it's the latter. If everyone reached 25 people, that's 100.

Peter

10:03 PM

I think Twitter has been a real boon for us...I've had people following and re-tweeting

thesecretmaster

Community ads have only 20 clicks :(

Peter

I don't think that's a bad thing...anything to get people...you never know whom you might reach

Peter

10:46 PM

We've been seeing lots of activity today

Encouraging to see

Gypsy Spellweaver

Earlier I went through our user list and found some interesting things. 70 users from other sites with rep>500 did hit and run (registered and haven't been back) in the first 10 days. An additional 23 of the same category haven't been seen since the first of the month. I started to count the low rep, or this site only users that did hit and run, but it was too large.

2

On the flip side, almost all the newer users - presumably in response to the marketing efforts - have been regular visitors, if not contributors at the moment. Additionally, from what is given in the profiles, most of the hit and runs probably won't be back since the site isn't really a fit for them. There were a few that looked promising, which I would really like to see come back, but not sure how to reach them.

2

Peter

Thanks for that insight. That's great to hear. It will make our marketing efforts much easier when we can link directly to a topic without the barrier of a log-in.

We are up 424 total users. That means around 75 have joined just today.

Or thereabouts

Gypsy Spellweaver

@Peter That I look forward to

Peter

We may also have people new to SE who are reading and just getting a feel for the site and the SE philosophy

Gypsy Spellweaver

That's why I used a cutoff of the first. That's after the marketing began. Prior to that it's mostly people from other SE sites, or Area 51 visitors. I didn't attempt to connect users to committers.

Gypsy Spellweaver

11:09 PM

General call: is there some way to get notified when there are items in the review queue? Something like the inbox or achievements in the header bar.

Or is it only there for higher rep users?

Peter

When you reach 350, you should be able to see the numbers

They do tend to get resolved quickly

Gypsy Spellweaver

I don't get anything in the header bar. I can see, and use, the queues. Most of them anyway. I just don't have any visual clue that there is something there that needs attention.

The link to the queues is there, empty or not.

thesecretmaster

I don't believe there is a way.

Also, @GypsySpellweaver thanks for the analysis.

Gypsy Spellweaver

I was also rather disappointed to see how low the "view" counts were for most of them. For many I was the only view.

thesecretmaster

Low profile views?

Gypsy Spellweaver

11:24 PM

Viewing a profile increments a counter, just like viewing a question does, that's displayed with the profile. Most of the profiles I viewed had only been viewed 1 or 2 times before. Many hadn't been viewed at all before I did.

Peter

Quite honestly I don't view many profiles...maybe I should start

I could track Twitter accounts that way although that could be stalker-ish

Gypsy Spellweaver

Actually, if I hadn't trashed my notes, there were a couple I seriously considered pointing you towards.

Peter

Good to know...I'll go persue

peruse*

Gypsy Spellweaver

lol

@Peter try user 112

Peter

k

Gypsy Spellweaver

11:30 PM

I was surprised how many users were uni level students. Self-directed students showing up here makes sense, the rest don't. I suspect that they were mostly early followers of the proposal, and that now that it's in beta and doesn't fit their use case, they will never return.

Once we are public beta, the ghost users should show up a lot less. Now they have to register just to browse. In public beta they can browse at will, and only have to register to participate.

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