Codenames

Gareth McCaughan

01:00

naughty MikeQ

Mike Q

Also unsure how coin -> red

Gareth McCaughan

SM mustn't say such things

Mike Q

But that's not how coins work

Wen1now

def flip_coin():
room.send_message(random.choice(["Red", "Blue"]))

Gareth McCaughan

I know. But shut up. :-)

Jan Dvorak

01:00

Yacht, 2

ffao

while it's better that he shuts up in general, I think it's obvious by this point that gym was not meant to clue ground :P

Gareth McCaughan

oh, for sure

but it's the principle of the thing

ffao

!board

Shiro

thecoder16

port

idk second one

ffao

01:02

to make it clear, if you suggest a word and I agree with it, I'm guessing it, so be careful :P

port

thecoder16

okay :P

Jan Dvorak

blue

thecoder16

loch ness because that and the clue are both in water, but that could've been better clued possibly

although he might've wanted to dodge well

Wen1now

Then just boat right?

Why yacht?

Gareth McCaughan

better that than dodging badly

thecoder16

01:04

is this completely collaborative now

ffao

those were my thoughts too, it could be loch because they're both in water

Gareth McCaughan

no, I'm heckling

thecoder16

!beatup @GarethMcCaughan

Gareth McCaughan

oh, but Wen1now is collaborating again

stop it, Wen1now

thecoder16

i'm going for it

ffao

01:04

I looked for connections with other words specifically to yacht, but I couldn't find any

thecoder16

LOCH NESS

Mike Q

Blue

thecoder16

2 more fromo cold war

@ffao give me your top 2 guesses for that

ffao

plane, port

thecoder16

red, blue respectively

!flipcoin

Shiro

01:06

Blue

Gareth McCaughan

you already had port

thecoder16

wait port is already blue :P

then plane

lol

PLANE

Jan Dvorak

plane is blue

thecoder16

ayyy

[passing] [out of guesses]

hmm i thought that would trigger shiro

Wen1now

!board

Shiro

01:07

Gareth McCaughan

uh oh

ffao

@thecoder16 It considered your input as passing** **out of guesses

thecoder16

why would it do that

Gareth McCaughan

longest match

thecoder16

i didn't put asterisks in between

Gareth McCaughan

01:08

so then passing] [out of guesses

same problem

Jan Dvorak

Is this a valid clue? @mike onetimesecret.com/secret/6fdru5yjdsho5ysav1nxidyla0gjp3k

thecoder16

i almost clicked

Mike Q

@JanDvorak Yes, although you probably should not have told me that

Jan Dvorak

Thanks

Oops, sorry. Should have waited until your clue.

Mike Q

Red: Weightlifter, 3

Gareth McCaughan

01:12

all these physical-sporty clues!

ffao

weightlifters go to the gym, so GROUND

Wen1now

Plate, bottle, figure?

Gareth McCaughan

@Wen1now do you know anything more than I do about weightlifting?

(note: if you know anything then you know more than I do)

Wen1now

Um, I think the aim is to lift the most

Gareth McCaughan

all seem kinda plausible (not sure I understand plate, though)

in hindsight I think FIGURE should have been an obvious guess for gym

thecoder16

01:13

weightlifters are probably strong enough to climb the HIMALAYAS

Gareth McCaughan

and maybe we should guess it first

Wen1now

Circular weights?

Gareth McCaughan

mmmmaaaayybe

Wen1now

I think BOTTLE -> FIGURE -> ???

thecoder16

weightlifting has existed since DINOSAUR times

Wen1now

01:14

Bottle

Gareth McCaughan

there was a once-upon-a-time-famous weightlifter called Charles Atlas, and I think both Atlas and Himalayas are names of mountain ranges, but that's probably even more ridiculous than thecoder16's attempted-sabotage reason :-)

Jan Dvorak

red

Gareth McCaughan

FIGURE

thecoder16

weightlifting - weight - heavy - large weight - large force of gravity - large down force - down - you flip a switch DOWN

Jan Dvorak

red.

thecoder16

01:15

that actually took some thought.

Wen1now

Plate or circle? Which one?

They're my only ideas

thecoder16

extremely pro weightlifters lift plates, not weights

Gareth McCaughan

dunno. We probably need two more guesses to avoid doom, because most likely blue can win if they get a turn

thecoder16

weightlifters are also strong enough to MUG someone

Wen1now

Plate=red, circle=blue

!flipcoin

Shiro

01:16

Red

Wen1now

plate

thecoder16

see? it even matches my idea.

Mike Q

Red

thecoder16

lol

Wen1now

Pass?

Or circle?

ffao

01:17

knowledge gaps are a funny thing. for everything Gareth knows about, he doesn't know that what weightlifters lift are called weight plates

thecoder16

is that serious? i can't tell

ffao

that was my #1 guess

Gareth McCaughan

I think if we pass we die. But let me think a bit in case something more convincing than circle comes to mind.

Wen1now

I mean like weightlifter was a three

Gareth McCaughan

the only thing we had left over was 2 from gym but those were quite likely bottle+figure.

Wen1now

01:18

I say pass

Gareth McCaughan

yeah. On the other hand, if blue get a turn they're likely to win. On the other other hand, if we guess something at random it's quite likely to do us no good.

Wen1now

Let's do some calculations

What is the chance of winning from two clues?

I mean having two things left

thecoder16

100%

Wen1now

I would say 50%

Gareth McCaughan

unfortunately that's rather hard to calculate, and depends e.g. on what if anything is left over from previous turns

Wen1now

01:19

Let's go with 50%

thecoder16

2.2% if random guesses

Gareth McCaughan

ok I guess

Wen1now

Then the chance of us guessing their clues with a random guess is

!board

Gareth McCaughan

but you're going to need an estimate of how that changes if we guess something

Shiro

Gareth McCaughan

01:20

and most of the time when we guess wrong it's yellow not blue

Wen1now

No guess -> 50%

Guess -> 10% immediate win

10% immediate loss

thecoder16

by the RNG shiro rule, you will most definitely guess blue if you guess

Wen1now

20% they get a free clue so 20% they win instantly

And 60% neutral so 30% win chance for them in this case

Gareth McCaughan

wait, why was that last one 10%

thecoder16

no one is following you anymore

Wen1now

01:21

Therefore the chances are the same ?!

Gareth McCaughan

if they get a free clue then they win 100% next time unless they're incredibly stupid

because then they only have one to guess

Wen1now

Okay good point, I think I got confused

Therefore we have 40% win chance if we guess

Gareth McCaughan

assuming we guess completely at random, 10% we win immediately, 20% they win immediately, 70% they are made slightly more likely to win because we took a yellow

Wen1now

Assuming with 2 words left there is a 50% chance of winning

thecoder16

just flip a coin and pray, this isn't going to get you anywhere

Wen1now

01:23

And with 1 word there is a 100% chance of winning

Gareth McCaughan

anyway, (1) with those numbers we should pass but (2) the margin is small enough that small changes in the numbers can change it. In any case it sounds like you would prefer to pass so let's do that/.

[passing]

Shiro

ffao

I'll just say that if I were red my "random" guess would be WELL, because Jan quite clearly explicitly avoided it

Gareth McCaughan

possibly

thecoder16

i'll just put my money on that being the assassin now.

Wen1now

01:25

Yeah, it was the assassin

Gareth McCaughan

in any case I think any calculation of that sort has to pay a lot of attention to details that vary from game to game

Wen1now

Is there a codenames chance lookup table anywhere?

I mean, just overall stats

Gareth McCaughan

no, because the actual probabilities depend hugely on details that vary

incidentally, if WELL is assassin then SOUND was a dangerous clue from Mike

thecoder16

not seeing it

Gareth McCaughan

anyway, I thought Jan had a clue lined up...

thecoder16

01:26

@JanDvorak here?

Jan Dvorak

Aye. Thinking.

Gareth McCaughan

@thecoder16 to sound is to measure the depth of, which is exactly the sort of thing you might do to a well

(but I guess also to a lake, and clearly that didn't bother Mike :-) )

ffao

probably wasn't thinking about that sound at all

thecoder16

sometime you have to be aware your word knowledge is far superior to the rest of us :P

Gareth McCaughan

(more specifically, to measure the depth of a body of water)

Jan Dvorak

01:28

Luck, 1

thecoder16

WHAT?

ffao

what.

thecoder16

is jan sending us a message saying GUESS RANDOM WORDS

Wen1now

Good luck guys :)

ffao

casino

thecoder16

01:28

CASINO

Jan Dvorak

blue

thecoder16

i swear if this is red

okay then

do we have one from cold war?

ffao

looks like red didn't need to worry so much about passing

thecoder16

any possibles left?

!board

Shiro

thecoder16

01:29

avoid well, circle.

14.3% chance!

ffao

let's go well and die in style :P

(not)

thecoder16

WE- oh, oops

Jan Dvorak

O_o

Let's reserve bold for actual gameplay

thecoder16

ah, i understand shiro well enough :P

Wen1now

^^

Jan Dvorak

01:31

ok

thecoder16

so what do we do? @ffao

Wen1now

Pass, that's probably best

ffao

we have no clues, we can't do a lot

we can just think about what would be hard to clue with casino

Wen1now

If you've got one word left with no clues then pass, that's what we did

ffao

or with the other clues we got earlier

thecoder16

01:32

dinosaur

ffao

and it also has to be a word that doesn't match any of the red clue

thecoder16

dinosaur is probably the most out there

ffao

dinosaur sounds reasonable

thecoder16

that or himilayas

red and blue

!flipcoin

Shiro

Blue

thecoder16

01:33

actually not himalays

dinosaur then?

ffao

dinosaur

Mike Q

Blue

Jan Dvorak

blue.

Gareth McCaughan

wow

thecoder16

crosses fingers

Mike Q

01:33

HOW

thecoder16

WHAT

Jan Dvorak

Well done last turn O_O

ffao

WOOOOO

thecoder16

LMAOOOOOOOOOOOO

Wen1now

Did we win?

Mike Q

01:34

No. Blue won by a completely random guess.

Wen1now

Yay! Team blue wins!

Gareth McCaughan

so I was convinced that ",1" meant not "please guess" but "there is an obvious leftover which you should try to find"

and that the obvious leftover was BUTTON (from Cold War)

and I am still having difficulty believing it wasn't

Wen1now

^

Mike Q

--

thecoder16

how BUTTON?

Gareth McCaughan

01:34

and I have absolutely no idea what the hell happened there

thecoder16

!finalboard

Wen1now

!finalboard

Jan Dvorak

"Luck" kinda meant "I can't clue both. You're screwed guys."

Shiro

Gareth McCaughan

BUTTON because in the cold-war years it was common to talk about so-and-so having their finger on the button, meaning the one that launches the nuclear missiles

ffao

01:35

I thought cold war was plane, port, as I said earlier

Jan Dvorak

Awesome job deducing dinosaur, @thecoder16

thecoder16

lol we were choosing between assassin and winner

Gareth McCaughan

(e.g., Tom Lehrer's satirical song MLF: "We've got the missiles / Peace to determine / And one of the fingers on the button will be German.")

Jan Dvorak

Yep - and the coin told you to go for assassin.

thecoder16

well gg guys, that was interesting

Mike Q

01:36

That was an incredibly frustrating game, and if yall really want me to shut up more in general, then I won't SM.

thecoder16

for some reason i felt dinosaur lol

ffao

I thought thecoder was going to go for it

I don't know why he decided not to pick himalayas at the end there

Gareth McCaughan

@MikeQ sorry if I caused offence

ffao

some seventh sense stuff going on here

thecoder16

@ffao i don't know either :P

Gareth McCaughan

01:37

but I do think it's best practice for SMs to be super-careful about not saying anything remotely out of turn

thecoder16

i just thought himalayas had more connections

Jan Dvorak

The first clue was a bit of screw-up on my part. Luckily it got drowned in the gameplay.

thecoder16

what was the first clue intended?

press, pants, ?

ffao

I completely forgot about that o_O

thecoder16

same

what was the third intended part

Gareth McCaughan

01:38

oh yeah, that was another reason I thought probably BUTTON for the cold war clue

Jan Dvorak

ironing board was supposed to clue plane + press + pants. Then I dropped board to strengthen press, which killed plane.

Gareth McCaughan

for what it's worth I did wonder about PLANE for that (but of course didn't say so)

Jan Dvorak

cold war was moscow + plane + port + missile

thecoder16

how plane

Gareth McCaughan

not by thinking ironing -> board -> plane but by thinking ironing -> flat -> plane :-)

Jan Dvorak

01:39

because an ironing board is a planar surface

ffao

given those two clues, I agree button was a very reasonable guess

thecoder16

gg, bye, wow

Gareth McCaughan

bye @thecoder16

Jan Dvorak

Do yachts typically have casinos? I think they do - but somehow Nessie appeared to be a better match.

ffao

but hey, it's good to do the wrong thing if it turns out to be the right thing

Gareth McCaughan

01:40

@MikeQ just out of curiosity, was sound,2 meant to clue ring,track or ring,well or something else? (I guess ring,track as we guessed)

I'd thought yacht->casino was quite likely simply because yachts and casinos are both stereotypically the playthings of rich playboy types.

Jan Dvorak

That. Also, the clue was yacht. Not boat. Not ship. Yacht.

ffao

we noticed

but I didn't think it was a good connection

Mike Q

So this was a very difficult board because it contained so many words dealing with "circular objects" and "things related to liquid". Meaning that those were unsafe candidates for clues.

ffao

apparently neither did coder

Jan Dvorak

ok

gotcha

Gareth McCaughan

01:42

anyway, I have to go now. That was an interesting game.

Jan Dvorak

Bye

Thanks for the great fun

Wen1now

04:13

You too

n_palum

12:56

o/ o/

Business Cat

pokes head in door

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