Codenames

Jan Dvorak

01:00

next up, china?

Helka Homba

3 mins ago, by Jan Dvorak

there are robots that peel fruit, too

Mike Q

Robot is blue. 1 guess remaining this turn.

Helka Homba

but robots do everything

Jan Dvorak

Robots don't th... Watson.

Helka Homba

I vote CHINA

Jan Dvorak

01:00

CHINA

Mike Q

Blue

Helka Homba

now we have one more

Jan Dvorak

We're out of tries, and probably out of clues

Mike Q

No, that was 3 of 2, so now it's red's turn

boboquack

!board

Helka Homba

01:01

oh

Shiro

Gareth McCaughan

well, this looks promising

Jan Dvorak

three remaining. Great pressure on red, who needs six.

Gareth McCaughan

@JanDvorak thanks, we'd noticed

Helka Homba

Is messing with the other team discouraged?

Jan Dvorak

01:03

Trolling is allowed, but it should be funny.

Gareth McCaughan

not if it's in small enough amounts that it's more funny than annoying or actually damaging

Rubio

RED: ANIMAL (2)

Gareth McCaughan

(sorry, that was "not discouraged" replying to HH, not "not allowed" replying to JD)

platypus and vet?

ffao

I only mind if it's so much that it drowns actual discussion

Gareth McCaughan

I mean, strictly ninjas are also animals but I don't think that's going to help

Jan Dvorak

01:03

Animals cast shadows

Gareth McCaughan

PLATYPUS

Jan Dvorak

some dogs also wear dresses

ffao

platypus is fairly safe, yeah

Rubio

I only mind when it goes past trolling to reach the point where people have to check the list of team membership with every message to see if they're being helpful or deliberately misleading.

PLATYPUS is RED

Gareth McCaughan

VET

Rubio

01:04

VET is RED

Gareth McCaughan

OK. Now we have 4 to get, they have 3, and it's their turn. I wonder whether we should make a semi-random guess on the grounds that that's our only realistic chance of survival.

Jan Dvorak

Red still has one try

Helka Homba

You have one more optional guess, no?

Gareth McCaughan

@HelkaHomba that's what I'm speculating about, yes

Jan Dvorak

Yep, they could stab in the dark

Gareth McCaughan

01:06

I mean, otherwise blue win if (1) Mike can link all their three, or (2) he can do 2+1 and Rubio can't do all four of ours next turn.

ffao

if we do have to stab at random, I think I'd rather do it on our final turn

Gareth McCaughan

@ffao well, we might have to do it twice

Jan Dvorak

If you keep stabbing in the dark for long enough, you'll find the dark stabbing back at you eventually, though

Gareth McCaughan

but you might be right. I'm not sure what optimizes our winning chances...

At any rate, we haven't anything non-stabby to do with our last guess, so far as I can telle.e

Helka Homba

IVORY is lucky, go for that

Gareth McCaughan

01:07

(dunno where those "e"s came from, sorry)

ffao

it's an interesting question what optimizes our chances

Jan Dvorak

stabbing in the dark optimizes for drama / enjoyment

ffao

I'll trust your math instincts for now

Gareth McCaughan

aargh, that means I actually have to think about it

Jan Dvorak

!board

Shiro

01:09

Gareth McCaughan

actually, it's not really a mathematics question. I mean, right now we have a 4/14 chance if we stab (maybe a bit better if we are able to avoid some on the basis that they're too close to earlier blue clues, or something). If, say, blue get 2 on their turn and then R is able to clue 3 of the 4, then we have 1/7 chance for a final stab. BUT ...

Helka Homba

you may have just guessed BUT

Gareth McCaughan

... if we stab successfully this time, we may pick something that R was always going to be able to put into a group. And if we stab unsuccessfully this time, we lose even-more-for-sure.

Jan Dvorak

Luckily, BUT isn't on the board

Gareth McCaughan

@HelkaHomba Pretty sure Shiro ignores things that aren't on their own, and things that aren't on the board

@ffao And those issues aren't very mathematical at all.

Jan Dvorak

01:11

@GarethMcCaughan that's a known bug

Gareth McCaughan

Of course, for all we know Rubio has a brilliant 4 up his sleeve.

Helka Homba

just do something

Jan Dvorak

Assuming he wears sleeves

Rubio

For all you know Rubio is a dog

Gareth McCaughan

But I'm inclined to think that if there were a brilliant 4 he wouldn't have given us a 2 just now.

Helka Homba

01:12

@JanDvorak he only needs one technically

Rubio

@HelkaHomba I may be unbalanced but not that unbalanced.

Jan Dvorak

Aargh, I hate asymmetrical clothing

ffao

There is the possibility that he is holding the 4 waiting for a blue word

but I agree that it is unlikely

Gareth McCaughan

yup

Helka Homba

@GarethMcCaughan IVORY is just as much animal as VET so I'm confused too (not that I'm trying to help red...)

Jan Dvorak

01:13

Not trying, but... ;-)

Rubio

Blue is always welcome to help Red. Well, unless I'm on Blue.

Jan Dvorak

Shush, SM ;-)

Helka Homba

@Rubio A platypus might have a single beak-sleeve

ffao

assuming we do guess

Rubio

Hm. You've given me a new idea for a clothing line for a lot of animals. Say, elephants and anteaters and pretty much any critter with a proboscis

ffao

01:15

to maximize our chances of winning, we should pick a word that is hard to group others with, especially the ones that have been clued already

Jan Dvorak

speaking of stabs, nail and spine seem kinda related to stabbing

ffao

and possibly eliminate some based on blue clues, but I don't see any

Gareth McCaughan

@ffao yes, that makes sense. There are some I would mildly avoid because of blue clues.

of course there's also the risk of assassination

maybe we should be cautious and just lose gracefluly

Jan Dvorak

always die with a bang. It's more Fun.

Gareth McCaughan

@ffao your preference between, say, IVORY and SPINE and <pass> ?

Jan Dvorak

01:17

Reckless attempts are catering for the audience.

Gareth McCaughan

(sorry, team red -- your compensation for all this delay is that you almost certainly get to win the game anyway)

Rubio

hehe

Mike Q

Gareth, you are team red

Gareth McCaughan

(also sorry, Rubio, for whom this discussion may well be agonizing)

er, I mean team blue

whatever team I'm not on right now

Mike Q

Rubio is also team red

ffao

01:18

the main problem I have with not guessing now is that Rubio can't make a (2) clue next turn

Gareth McCaughan

@MikeQ yeah, my broken brain had managed to grasp that Rubio and I are on the same team.

Helka Homba

there should be a time limit >.>

Jan Dvorak

Yeah, it's less agonizing for the SM whose team isn't considering assassination :-D

ffao

so I say we agree to guess, say, IVORY and SPINE next turn, and if Rubio gives an unlimited clue we take it as a (2)

Jan Dvorak

What if he gives a (1)?

Gareth McCaughan

01:19

@ffao not sure I understand the advantage of that

ffao

hmm, but then if one of them is yellow we're in trouble

Gareth McCaughan

ah screw it

IVORY

Jan Dvorak

:-D

Gareth McCaughan

apologies if we just got killed

Rubio

IVORY is red

Gareth McCaughan

01:20

woooo

Helka Homba

nuu

Jan Dvorak

blue turn

ffao

I was fine with being assassinated there

Mike Q

Blue: First, 2

Rubio

!board

Gareth McCaughan

01:20

it would have ended the pain

Shiro

Jan Dvorak

first part? But capital, wake also seem related

unless it's a meta-clue

ffao

I'm still not 100% sure, but you've almost convinced me that random guessing at that situation is optimal

Helka Homba

first part, first to wake, idk

Jan Dvorak

PART

Mike Q

01:22

Blue!

Jan Dvorak

CAPITAL

Mike Q

Capital is blue

Helka Homba

gasp

boboquack

Yay

Jan Dvorak

Now, we're in the same spot as red was

Helka Homba

01:23

!board

@JanDvorak red?

Jan Dvorak

wake seems safeish.

!board

Shiro

boboquack

Don't guess

1 is much easier than 3

Helka Homba

^

Jan Dvorak

[PASS]

Shiro

01:24

Jan Dvorak

Screw the audience :-P

Gareth McCaughan

what, all of them?

Rubio

one sec sorry

boboquack

@JanDvorak Sp isn't watching anymore :P

Gareth McCaughan

it'll take a lot longer than one sec

Jan Dvorak

01:26

Actually, audience is getting properly hyped now :-P

might as well call it a commercial break if I didn't have adblock on :P

Rubio

ok sorry RL intervened briefly.

Gareth McCaughan

how dare it

Helka Homba

@Rubio shadow ninja bugle?

Jan Dvorak

attack isn't on the board

Rubio

RED: Chang's Martial Arts Academy (2)

Helka Homba

01:32

BUGLE definitely

Gareth McCaughan

well, if that's a thing I have no idea what it is beyond the obvious

let's begin with

NINJA

because if not we're soooo screwed

Mike Q

Red

Gareth McCaughan

ok, so we need two more, only one of which is actually clued

Jan Dvorak

>:-)

Gareth McCaughan

is it maybe something in a James Bond movie? Then we could guess BOND

except

ffao

01:33

where did that clue come from o_O

Gareth McCaughan

that if BOND were good then Rubio might well have given Nitrogen (3) instead of Nitrogen (2) before

Jan Dvorak

sun-tzu? Sun looks a bit like COTTON.

ffao

I don't think it's a bond thing

Helka Homba

the martial arts student/master BOND

Gareth McCaughan

what about pupil?

because academy

ffao

01:34

pupil was my guess

Jan Dvorak

What DRESS did these monks wear?

ffao

because academy

Gareth McCaughan

if it's wrong then again we're screwed

boboquack

Ohh... I see what it means

Gareth McCaughan

PUPIL

Mike Q

01:34

Red

Rubio

PUPIL is RED

Gareth McCaughan

ok...

Helka Homba

!board

Gareth McCaughan

so now one more, for which so far as we know we have never had a clue

ffao

so we're in random guessing territory again

Helka Homba

01:35

!sp

Jan Dvorak

!board

Shiro

Gareth McCaughan

we haven't really used the "Chang" part of our last clue (I mean, if it was meant to point to NINJA then why Chang -- Chinese -- rather than something Japanese?)

Helka Homba

it never boards when I board :/

Jan Dvorak

@ffao privs pls^

ffao

01:36

!whitelist 121917

Jan Dvorak

nice

Helka Homba

oh, fancy

Gareth McCaughan

but I don't see anything very Changy on the board

ffao

my guess is that is some academy Rubio knows and came to his mind

Gareth McCaughan

(but, again, maybe it's a reference I don't get)

ffao

01:36

and he can't just replace the name, otherwise it's not a thing anymore

Gareth McCaughan

yup

that's true

Jan Dvorak

chemical BONDs chang-e all the time

Helka Homba

just "Marital Arts" is a valid phrase (not helping, not helping!)

ffao

but we needed academy for pupil

Jan Dvorak

@HelkaHomba remember you're blue

Gareth McCaughan

01:38

ok, so we would ideally like to find a final guess that has nothing to do with smartphones, rinds or firstness and that fits OK (but not too well) with nitrogen/animal/martial arts

Jan Dvorak

Did they wear HOODs?

Gareth McCaughan

I infer from the general silence that @ffao has no more ideas than I have

ffao

that would be a correct inference

Helka Homba

@GarethMcCaughan Rubio doesn't care enough about you to give clear clueing, just pass on him

Gareth McCaughan

SPINE

ffao

01:41

maybe spine, but I'm fine with any

Helka Homba

what happened to DL?

Gareth McCaughan

oops

Mike Q

ASSASSIN

Rubio

boom.

Gareth McCaughan

ha

Mike Q

01:41

Rubio, who is Chang? Why not just say "Dojo, 2"?

boboquack

!board

Jan Dvorak

Nice!

ffao

of course I always guess the assassin

boboquack

!finalboard

Shiro

Rubio

01:42

No idea. Some random martial arts academy I've seen.

Shiro

Rubio

our last was NAIL

Gareth McCaughan

incidentally, the appearance of reverse-causality above is all illusion. I accidentally edited a comment instead of making a new one, and my "oops" was about that

ffao

not much we could do about an unclued word than random guess

Gareth McCaughan

wtf NAIL wasn't the other one for RIND, then?

Rubio

01:42

The board screwed me. I couldn't do much to mega-clue without hitting SPINE

Gareth McCaughan

so what was the other RIND?

Mike Q

Orange part.

Gareth McCaughan

oh!

Jan Dvorak

nice

Helka Homba

@MikeQ as in slice?

Gareth McCaughan

01:43

incidentally, smartphone(5) was very impressive

ffao

that clue won it for blue

Mike Q

The tech ones were really easy. The other ones not so much.

@HelkaHomba Yes, but if I said slice, surely one of you would have said ninja.

Jan Dvorak

glass / tablet / china / model / robot?

Gareth McCaughan

actually I think every single blue word other than BUGLE and CAPITAL fits smartphone

Helka Homba

Again?

Jan Dvorak

01:44

orange doesn't fit smartphone

Mike Q

@JanDvorak Yes. @Helka Sure, but I'm not SM.

Gareth McCaughan

oh yes it does

ffao

orange is a carrier

Gareth McCaughan

Orange is the name of a mobile phone operator

Mike Q

I was unaware of this because I am an uncultured American swine

Jan Dvorak

01:44

oh, these guys

Gareth McCaughan

at least in the UK and I think maybe elsewhere in Europe

Rubio

If you guys hadn't lucked into VET, I would have gone with "Tooth and Claw" as a next clue

Helka Homba

not in the US

boboquack

I can play again, but missing for 5-10 minutes starting nowish

Rubio

a Doctor Who episode name

speaking of which

Gareth McCaughan

01:45

I can play another but may leave part way through

Jan Dvorak

I'll guess

Rubio

I'm going now to watch last weekend's episode.

ffao

I'm with Gareth

Rubio

Have a happy

Gareth McCaughan

bye @Rubio

don't get eaten

Jan Dvorak

01:45

night then

Helka Homba

people are coming from TNB

Gareth McCaughan

so it seems

Downgoat

hello

Jan Dvorak

count me in

user165474

We were called?

Gareth McCaughan

01:46

hello newcomers

user165474

What is this?

musicman523

am here

Wheat Wizard

I am here

Gareth McCaughan

it's a game; see the pinned comment at right beginning "CODENAMES RULES"

Helka Homba

@HyperNeutrino chat game. See chat.stackexchange.com/transcript/message/37582018#37582018

Gareth McCaughan

01:47

a new game is about to start

user165474

thanks

Mike Q

Newcomers: The point of the game is to enter "!board" as many times as you can.

Helka Homba

and then get kicked as less as you can

Jan Dvorak

Yeah, let's stress-test her :-D

user165474

Count me out; I'll observe a round.

user165474

01:48

Wait is this game controlled by a bot?

Wheat Wizard

@HyperNeutrino Can't hurt to play

Helka Homba

How do we start a new game?

user165474

Oh @Shiro?

user165474

!help

ffao

you should play, hyper, you'll get the gist of it

Wheat Wizard

01:48

@HyperNeutrino There is a bit that keeps track of the score

user165474

nope lol

Jan Dvorak

I'm assuming this'll be a training session

user165474

Oh okay, count me in then

Jan Dvorak

hop in

ffao

and of course the bot author never bothered to write a !help command

Downgoat

01:48

is tehre link to game?

musicman523

I know how to play the game but not how to use the bot

Wheat Wizard

Why are our masters?

musicman523

Can someone explain how the bot works?

user165474

s/y/o/

Mike Q

Okay gather round children

First we decide who's on one team

Gareth McCaughan

01:49

ok, I have some round children

Helka Homba

@musicman523 it mainly makes new board images like puu.sh/woYqR/5d42429b98.png

musicman523

Noobs vs vets!

Wheat Wizard

@musicman523 It will automatically display the board and stuff, just let people who know how it works handle it

musicman523

Sounds good

Mike Q

Then somebody says "!newgame <various usernames separated by commas>" and that starts a new game with 2 teams

user165474

01:49

then why are there three parameters?

Helka Homba

I don't mind being a spymaster

Wheat Wizard

I'll be one

Gareth McCaughan

(note to newcomers: the bot mostly ignores people it doesn't have on its whitelist so, e.g., if you say !newgame it may ignore you)

Wheat Wizard

@HyperNeutrino There are more than three you input all the players and it assigns teams iirc

Gareth McCaughan

@HyperNeutrino always 2 teams, however many people

musicman523

01:50

Always two [teams], there are; no more, no less. - Yoda

Gareth McCaughan

first two people named in newgame command are "spymasters"

Jan Dvorak

We should try a 3p once

Mike Q

On each team's turn, that team's spymaster says a word and a number. This is the number of words on the board that are "clued" by that word.

Wheat Wizard

So myself and Helka are masters? any objections?

ffao

nay

Jan Dvorak

01:51

nay

Gareth McCaughan

@WheatWizard have you played before?

Wheat Wizard

@GarethMcCaughan I've played ~8 games

I've been spymaster 4 times before

Mike Q

The team tries to figure out which words the spymaster was cluing, and then submit the guess by putting the word in bold.

Gareth McCaughan

ah, ok, sorry for not remembering that

Wheat Wizard

np

Gareth McCaughan

01:52

then add me to the list of those who have no objection to the proposed SMs

boboquack

nay

musicman523

same

Mike Q

If the team makes as many guesses as the spymaster specified, then they can either guess another word, or [pass] and the next team goes

If the team makes a bad guess, their turn ends

The board also has an assassin word; if the team chooses that one, then they immediately lose

Helka Homba

soo

!newgame Helka Homba, Wheat Wizard, Mike Q, Gareth McCaughan, Jan Dvorak, musicman523, boboquack

Shiro

RED: Wheat Wizard, Gareth McCaughan, Jan Dvorak, musicman523

BLUE: Helka Homba, Mike Q, boboquack

RED spymaster only, please click on this link to see the seed: https://onetimesecret.com/secret/a9yqomn8juzvmci2tfaboquit93o921
BLUE spymaster only, please click on this link to see the seed: https://onetimesecret.com/secret/cwd7h60jti64g5xps5owkgm7310d085

Please save the seed somewhere! As a last resort if any of you happens to forget the seed, you can type !recall to get a new link.

BLUE goes first!

Helka Homba

01:53

I think I missed some people

Mike Q

Site is here: https://ninjabunny.github.io/KodeNames/#. If you are spymaster, copypaste the secret number into the space next to the Reset button.

Shiro

Gareth McCaughan

you missed ffao

Helka Homba

but they can !join

user165474

!join

Shiro

01:53

Hi Hyper Neutrino, you'll be joining team blue!

musicman523

I noticed in the rules that a clue with 0 indicates unlimited guesses, however I believe in the official rules of the game a clue with 0 should have only 1 guess. I don't have my box with me because I'm out of town but I'll look

Shiro

BLUE: Helka Homba, Mike Q, boboquack, Hyper Neutrino

ffao

!join

Shiro

Hi ffao, you'll be joining team blue!

musicman523

how do we communicate with our fellow operatives?

ffao

01:54

did Shiro get rate-limited?

Helka Homba

which team goes first?

Mike Q

Blue goes first because they have 9 and red has 8.

Gareth McCaughan

blue goes first in this case

Helka Homba

ok

Gareth McCaughan

(1. Shiro -- the bot -- said so earlier; 2. team with more words goes first)

Jan Dvorak

01:55

Of course, they can still miss their first guess

Gareth McCaughan

@musicman523 all communication happens here in chat

boboquack

!showteams

!teams

Shiro

RED team: Wheat Wizard, Gareth McCaughan, Jan Dvorak, musicman523

BLUE team: Helka Homba, Mike Q, boboquack, Hyper Neutrino, ffao

Jan Dvorak

@HelkaHomba thinking?

Helka Homba

yeah

well

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