« first day (1425 days earlier)      last day (1196 days later) » 

4:35 AM
prnt.sc/x9fhkw how is the answer infinity here? (this is a past year paper of KVPY too!)
 
5:28 AM
Hello @JohnRennie sir
 
@PrateekMourya hi :-)
 
Sir i want to check my thought on one question
 
OK ... ?
 
Question: a container fitted wtih massless poston at top
Filled with ideal gas
Mercury is slowly poured over
Find maximum High of mercury that can be poured
Now i thought of this limit like this
 
Aha, I've answered this question already for someone else. Give me a moment and I'll find it.
in Room for B & J, Jan 4 at 6:15, by John Rennie
Without any mercury the piston is at the top of the tube and the air in the tube is at atmospheric pressure. Yes?
 
5:35 AM
Ok
What i also thought that at certain point the pressure of trapped air increases more that added mercury column
 
Exactly yes, that's how it works.
 
Ok
Sir do you know the pressure dependence of ideal gas with hight when gravity is taken in account?
Poe^-(mgh/rt)
 
I did learn the derivation, but then forgot it again. I'd have to Google for the details to remind me how it's done.
 
Its called barometric formula
 
Yes
 
5:39 AM
I asked why gravity was not taken in account while derivation of ideal gas equation
Then how can we appy it here
Then my teacher said you can for smaller sections
Now
Sir please wait 10 mins
 
The change in pressure with height is small because the density of gases at everyday temperatures and pressures is only around a kg per cubic metre.
When you are doing measurements in the lab the effect of gravity is too small to be measured.
 
5:52 AM
Hello sir
1
Q: How can we take pressure of ideal gas be equal to pressure of atmosphere if container is open

Prateek MouryaI can better put my doubt in form of problem: The temperature of a gas placed in an open container is raised from $27^o$ C to $227^o$ C. The percent of the original amount of the gas expelled from the container will be: Now in the solution we apply ideal gas equation and say that pressure remains...

Inspired from this answer i made and explanation
We can still apply it on smaller sections
Since it can be assumed to be isolated from other sections
Simce sometimes the molecules from outside this section enter
And sometimes escape
Sometimes nothing at all
So on average the number of moles can be assumed to be Constant
So it becomes a small container filled with ideal gas
Wehre just now the pressure is change simce the pressure on container is changed
Due to surrounding layers
Is this justified?
Since we can neglect effect of gravity on motion of molecules of this lay
But the weight of above layes cant be neglected
@JohnRenniesir
 
 
1 hour later…
7:26 AM
@PrateekMourya hi, sorry, i was working and missed your post.
 
7:39 AM
@Physicsismylife hi :-)
@Physicsismylife ping me when you are around and we can discuss this.
 
 
1 hour later…
8:52 AM
@JohnRennie sir I will ping you in 30 -40mins from now or before
 
@Physicsismylife OK :-)
 
9:36 AM
@JohnRennie hello
 
@Physicsismylife hi :-)
 
Yes, I have sth to show
 
OK ... ?
 
2nd paraph 7th line
the second condition means that parts ....
till end
I didn’t understand its meaning
This tells why pressure is always perpendicular to a object
@JohnRennie
 
I think there is a simpler way to see that the force created by a pressure is always normal to the surface.
 
9:39 AM
ok
 
Suppose we have a fluid in contact with a surface. By "fluid" I mean anything that can flow so it could be a gas or a liquid. The same argument applies to both.
 
The fluid is the light blue region and the horizontal black line is the surface.
 
The pressure in the fluid exerts a force per unit area Ff on the surface as shown by the blue line
 
9:41 AM
Yes,Downwards
correct
both the forces will be equal right due to Newton’s third law ?
 
But Newton's 3rd law tells us that the surface must exert an equal and opposite force Fs on the fluid, as shown by the red arrow. OK so far?
@Physicsismylife yes
 
I said the same thing I think.K
 
If the forces are not normal to the surface that means the force the surface exerts on the fluid will have some horizontal component i.e. a component parallel to the surface. Yes?
 
Ok.That means like this
@JohnRennie
 
@Physicsismylife Like that.
 
9:46 AM
K
There is also fcos theta?
Upwards right
@JohnRennie
 
But the fluid can flow, so if there is any component of force parallel to the surface than the fluid will flow parallel to the surface. That means what I've drawn above cannot be the situation at equilibrium.
If the forces looked like that the fluid would start to flow, and it would continue to flow until the force became normal to the surface.
 
Yes but if there is equal and opposite force
then it is in equilibrium rught
 
@Physicsismylife Fs cosθ would be vertical. I haven't drawn it because it isn't relevant to this discussion.
 
@JohnRennie ok got it
But
The first situation you drew
then even that can’t be at equilibrium
 
Why?
 
9:49 AM
Water can flow , so if you apply force from up, water will rise up
Like , water will move right
 
No, because there is nothing to fill in the gap in between the water and the wall.
The water can move parallel to the wall, but it can't move towards or away from the wall.
 
Ok.
got that
Then @JohnRennie
 
Yes ... ?
 
Still
vsin theta is perpendicular force
fsintheta
in my book , it says we can draw a perpendicular force from left or right as well
Also ,if it makes a components like Fs sin theta = Ff sin theta
then it is equilibrium
 
I'd need to see what your book says ...
 
9:53 AM
Newton’s third law
There is perpendicular force from left and right in the image
 
You mean figure 5.3?
 
Yess
@JohnRennie
 
In my diagram I drew the surface horizontal because that made a nice clear diagram. I could have drawn the surface at any angle. Whatever the angle of the surface the force created by the fluid at the surface must be normal to the surface, because if it wasn't we'd get fluid flow parallel to the surface.
So if the surface is vertical the force created by the fluid on the surface must be horizontal.
 
Also , the way you told me sir . Then we can draw horizontal components right . Those horizontal components will also be to each other due to Newton’s third law . Fssintheta = Ffsintheta
What do you think about this sir
If the horizontal components are equal , then fluid is not flowing and horizontal components are also perpendicular
@JohnRennie
 
If there is a horizontal component of the force the fluid exerts on the surface then there will be an equal and opposite horizontal component of the force the surface exerts on the fluid:
 
10:01 AM
Yes
Then fluid is in equilibrium
 
Like this.
 
But the two parallel forces do not cancel each other out because they are acting on different objects. The red force acts on the fluid while the blue force acts on the solid.
The parallel forces would only cancel if they were both acting on the same object, but this is not the case.
 
OK.IN perpendicular case
they were acting on different objects
still
 
Because for the perpendicular forces there are other forces acting that I haven't drawn.
The container is made froma solid, and there can be forces in that solid because solids can't flow.
 
10:05 AM
Yes solid can’t flow
 
If you have a metal sphere and you put pressurised fluid inside it then the metal cannot flow away from the fluid inside it and get bigger because, well, it's a solid.
 
Right
That is true
 
Although if the solid is a rubber balloon then of course it can expand because it stretches. That's exactly what happens when you blow up a balloon.
 
The normal force on the balloon from the air inside it makes the balloon expand.
 
10:07 AM
But can be tangential too right
 
But it only expands until the elastic force in the rubber is equal and opposite to the normal force of the fluid inside it.
@Physicsismylife you can get tangential forces in a solid, yes.
 
Why not in fluids but
 
Because fluids can flow in response to a tangential force, but solids cannot.
 
ok
but they can also flow if it is perpendicular from sides
right
that is also parallel
 
21 secs ago, by Physics is my life
that is also parallel
 
10:10 AM
 
I'm not sure what that means. Parallel to what?
 
Ok
that is perpendicular
but from sides
then fluid can flow
 
In your example above didn't tangential mean parallel to the surface?
 
It meant if it is in a slanting kind of way
Think of this solid as fluid
that’s what I meant as tangential force
 
I don't understand what that is showing.
A solid rectangular box?
 
10:13 AM
just give me a min
I will explain all in one page
 
OK ... ?
 
So in the 1st one
a disturbance is caused for the fluid right
even if its perpendicular
that makes the fluid move
 
I guess the question is why the parallel force can make the fluid move while the normal force cannot.
 
I am sorry if I made you understand my question wrong
 
46 secs ago, by John Rennie
I guess the question is why the parallel force can make the fluid move while the normal force cannot.
Is that what you are asking?
 
10:19 AM
@JohnRennie parallel force can ofc make the fluid move right because no Newton’s third law can be formed as well
my question is different
 
Then I don't understand what you are asking
 
M books says forces on a body in liquid is always perpendicular
from left right
And from up and down
my question is why not in a slant
Forces exerted by a liquid is always perpendicular to the body it is acting on
that’s what my books says
and I am not getting it
@JohnRennie I hope you got it now
 
If the forces were like that the water would start flowing.
 
no , why ? Forces will cut each other right
Newton’s third law
 
The water would start flowing as shown by the red arrows.
 
10:23 AM
Why
I mean
forces should get cut right
so no movement
How does it flow like that
@JohnRennie sir
 
The forces would be pushing the water into the centres of the faces of the cube, and that would compress the water and increase its pressure. Since the pressure at the centre of the faces would then be higher than the pressure in the rest of the container fluid would flow away from the centres of the faces out into the rest of the fluid.
 
The force direction I drew is the force by fluid which is pushing the cube.No one is pushing the fluid right .
I did not understand what you meant to convey to me @JohnRennie sir
 
I've run out of time I'm afraid ...
I have to go now.
 
Ohk.Pls do come soon
Sorry for using a lot of your time @JohnRennie
Thank you for all the time you gave
 
 
6 hours later…
4:03 PM
Hello @JohnRennie sir
Sir i too went to coaching
 
@PrateekMourya hi :-)
 
Sir can you confirm my explanation I posted few hours ago
 
@JohnRennie do you have time?
 
@JohnRennie above this
 
I'm just about to start my lunch I'm afraid.
 
4:06 PM
OK
 
Ok no problem sir just whenever you come tomorrow again please confirm it
 

« first day (1425 days earlier)      last day (1196 days later) »