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00:00 - 19:0019:00 - 00:00

12:12 AM
What are the criteria for HNQ questions? I say that, because the question above has the message This question was selected for the Hot Network Questions list. and it's not exactly a great question
 
@JoKing upvotes over time i guess
 
What, 3 upvotes?
 
in one hour
idk
 
Anonymous
Activity in general over a given timespan, relative to activity across the network in the same timespan
 
So all the comments by people confused about the question
 
Anonymous
12:15 AM
I don't know how much of an effect comments have, but it certainly seems like they do
 
plus all the edits to clarify the question
 
12:32 AM
@ASCII-only yes and no, huge paper due tonight for me, soz
 
12:44 AM
remember when i used twitter
ha
 
1:38 AM
It has a structure of some sort but I don't recognize it.
It's very fractal like
 
Looks like a super distorted Sierpinski gasket.
 
Yeah.
I'm noticing a few patterns. Each part seems to have a matching transpose.
 
2:05 AM
There is an image of n=29 for clarity if anyone was actually interested
This is for this code-golf if anyone was wondering
 
2:49 AM
huh
wait are you wheat wizard
 
I was
I went ahead and posted it on math.se now.
 
 
3 hours later…
6:04 AM
CMC: A bigot is a program that reads a program and outputs whether that program is a bigot.
Bigots are impossible in any Turing-complete language. Define a programming language with the highest computational class possible, but which still accepts bigots.
 
I think he's pretty accurate with the distorted sierpinski gasket
@EsolangingFruit Wait, is that just a recursive definition?
 
@ThePlasmaRailgun Problem?
 
No, that makes it more interesting
I'd like to see an example of a bigot in non-turing complete language though...
 
Take the language in which every program ignores its input and prints 1. Every program is a bigot in that language.
 
6:06 AM
Ah
 
[citation needed]
 
The pattern kind of looks like this: en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sierpinski_triangle#/media/…
Where the angle is just increased slightly and then the entire thing is skewed.
 
0
A: Sandbox for Proposed Challenges

J AtkinPerfectly stable code You are a.... Let's say prepared, programmer. You are working on the code to end all code, and it must be perfectly stable. No crashes, memory corruptions, mispellings, or anything else must get in your way. Everything else was set, but to your horrer you discovered that yo...

 
 
1 hour later…
7:11 AM
@EsolangingFruit If the program has an ! in it, output if the input has a ! in it, otherwise remove !s from the input and act as a normal Turing complete language.
 
@JoKing Busted! This reminds me of some discussion over at the esolang wiki about TC languages without quines (the example was a language where a program couldn't start printing with its own first character).
 
@ØrjanJohansen Do you have a link to the page in question?
 
I always have trouble finding it again, let me see...
 
@EsolangingFruit There may be many groups of bigotry. All programs in each group only recognise each other but no other programs. There may be non-bigots that can correctly determine whether a particular program is a certain type of bigot, without that program being a bigot.
 
7:31 AM
@EsolangingFruit Here, bigot and bigoT are bigots, while bigott isn't, even though it can correctly identify bigots.
 
My initial thought was a trivial example where a language wouldn't output until the program had halted, and only if the output didn't match the program itself
@Adám Ah, so in my example, I wouldn't need to remove the !s from the input
 
@EsolangingFruit Wait, do you mean that all programs that correctly identify bigots must counted as bigots?
 
that kinda contradictory, right? bigott identifies bigots, so it must be a bigot, but it doesn't return true for itself
 
If all programs that correctly identify bigots must be identified as bigots, then yes, that's seems impossible in sufficiently powerful languages.
 
oh right
I think my ! example still holds for that then
 
7:57 AM
@JoKing No, a TC language program would be able to obtain an ! without containing one explicitly (e.g. by using the ASCII code), and then check if the input has that.
 
otherwise remove !s from the input and act as a normal Turing complete language
ignoring the part i said later sorry
 
@JoKing Hm, that might just work. Also: if the program has an odd number of bytes, it returns whether the input has an odd number of bytes, otherwise the program run like normal on the input followed by a trailing newline. In this language, trailing whitespace is insignificant (as long as the program has an even number of bytes).
 
8:27 AM
@Adám That doesn't work I think, you need to append a trailing newline only for one input parity.
Otherwise you could make a bigot with an even number of bytes.
 
 
1 hour later…
9:34 AM
@ØrjanJohansen My spec doesn't add a newline to the input if the program has an odd number of bytes.
 
Well my point is that your spec doesn't prohibit writing an even length program that checks whether the input has an odd number of bytes.
It's the parity of the input I'm talking about, not the program.
 
@ØrjanJohansen Oh, I see what you mean. Yeah, that was not well written.
 
Right, it should say run like normal on the input padded to even length with newlines
 
Much better.
 
9:45 AM
0
Q: Javascript Nodejs (Converting Strings Into An Integer)

Karandeep SinghDave is learning about JavaScript. He just learnt an awesome function to convert a string into an integer. Six months ago, he had written a useless code, which produces a random string 'line' of alphabets (uppercase & lowercase), digits and whitespaces. It has no special characters Now he wants...

 
10:24 AM
-1
Q: How To Process Large Records With Scripts

Karandeep SinghBeing a developer, you should know how to process a large number of records with scripts. You are given records of T customers of your company. Each record has the following information in the following format: <customer_name>,<customer_no>,<date_of_birth>,<record_processing_date> Where: 1.: N...

 
11:21 AM
-2
Q: Converting Strings Into Integers Using Javascript & Nodejs

Karandeep SinghDave is learning about JavaScript. He just learnt an awesome function to convert a string into an integer. Six months ago, he had written a useless code, which produces a random string 'line' of alphabets (uppercase & lowercase), digits and whitespaces. It has no special characters Now he wants...

 
11:46 AM
> I Know Bassdrop. But I Plz Need Your Help In Solving These Two Questions Only. I Am Very Behind On My Syllabus & I Have Just Started Javascript. It Would Be very helpful Of You Guys If you Help Me On This One. Plz – Karandeep Singh
 
12:08 PM
lol
 
Target of programming languages can not be the smart one people , but average IQ people... If one write something nobody but the CPU understand: Where is the gain?
 
@RosLuP It gets the one-off job done.
@RosLuP Winning AoC.
 
@RosLuP If it works and doesn't need to be understood after the fact
 
No there will be the time someone has to modify that or someone find a bug...
The real problem is to do all easily...
If possible
 
My code never contains any bugs
/s
 
12:11 PM
@RosLuP Target of my speech's keywords' slip cannot be the speaker, but average IQ people… If one writes something nobody but the speaker understands, then what is the point? /s
 
@Fatalize all we write bug too
 
Ven
I don't. Why would I do that?
 
Yes you nor write bug, but one day someone will use your function out of the range your function is tested to operate => bug..
 
@RosLuP Obviously, Ven's functions always check that their arguments are appropriate.
 
@Adám What checks that the arguments to the checker are appropriate? :p
 
12:21 PM
@Fatalize Its checker, of course, what did you think‽
 
@Adám ( ͠° ͟ʖ ͡°)
 
@RosLuP who said programmers were above average IQ...
 
Programmers that project one language has above average IQ...
 
0
A: Sandbox for Proposed Challenges

Kevin CruijssenCould you please stop shuffling the deck and play already?.. code-golfarray-manipulationintegernumber Challenge: Input: A list of distinct positive integers within the range [1, list-size]. Output: An integer: the amount of times the list is riffle-shuffled. For a list, this means the list is...

 
@RosLuP project?
 
12:34 PM
my question exactly lol
 
maybe he meant "focus on"
 
Or "expand beyond"
 
Or "transcend"
 
"project one language" could be wrong possible better "write axioms or laws for a language"
 
12:38 PM
0
Q: The (Easy) Road to Code

Kevin CruijssenInput: An integer \$n\$, which is guaranteed to be \$\ge3\$. An integer \$d\$, which is one of \$[-1,0,1]\$. Output: A road of size \$n\$, which will be in a north-west direction if \$d=-1\$; a north direction if \$d=0\$; or a north-east direction if \$d=1\$. The road will always be three ch...

 
@RosLuP not exactly
 
@RosLuP You mean document the language? Are able to reason in the language?
 
@Adám I think he means "designs a language"
 
@Fatalize It will be really hard to verify that claim.
 
with how powerful languages are now, and how many libraries are available, even people like milkyway me can create a language >_>
@Adám that's what i assume as well
 
12:44 PM
I think problem-solving is a more important skill than programming. Euler failed most elementary Math early on in life. But now he is the most widely praised in Mathematics and the father of many fields.
also, IQ is a poor indicator of intelligence, it's just the way society assigns social value. You have access to knowledge and the time to focus on it is more a measure of social fitness and wealth. I think drive and passion is a better indicator of intelligence.
IMHO
 
Ven
1:04 PM
@Adám { trivial; }
.oO( left_as_an_exercise_for_the_reader; )
@Martin Ender all the documentations, examples and wiki for retina target 0.8.2, right?
 
1:23 PM
@Rick problem solving is the only skill :P
 
@NewMainPosts ugh, so many Charcoal bugs
@Ven iirc only the examples are for 0.8.2
@ASCII-only so there's this version which draws the lines in the wrong place because Extend doesn't move the origin
 
oops, sorry :/
guess i'll need a lot more testcases
 
and then there's this version which just crashes :-(
 
:/ very sorry, but it's late here, i'll look at the bugs i haven't fixed (i remember there are more, just gotta find them) asap tomorrow
 
1:54 PM
0
Q: Get f()()('l') to return 'fool

David van ZylIntroduction I got this in an interview and am basically here to appeal for solutions for my own curiosity and learning. Puzzle Expression => Return Value f('l') => 'fl' f()()('l') => 'fool' f()()()('l') => 'foool' var a = f(); a('l') => 'fol'

 
2:21 PM
@ASCII-only found one... RotateTransform(3)
 
3:02 PM
lol true that! man am I redundant XP
 
3:40 PM
@Adám mandelbrot ascii art program? Hmmm.... Looks fun. Puts on To Golf list
...i wonder
how welcome would a MOV only x86-64 golf challenge be? (MOV has been verified as TC, github.com/xoreaxeaxeax/movfuscator)
 
ngn
4:06 PM
@moonheart08 how does rust manage memory allocation?
 
@ngn Rust usually tries to avoid allocations, but it uses the system allocator by default, and can interface with C when necessary
 
ngn
@moonheart08 so, malloc?
 
Box<T> is usually the type used when you want to put a T on the heap explictly
@ngn malloc on UNIX, yes
Rust also allows you to choose/write your own allocator if you feel like it
(Mainly aimed at embedded/low level/libcless development)
 
ngn
@moonheart08 how is it better than c with -nostdlib?
 
@ngn Rust's borrowchecker is basically the whole advertising point
when you're not working in a unsafe {} block with raw pointers, the borrow checker will give you a nice fat "no" if it can't prove your code wont UD
result is, if you learn to work with the borrow checker (It's not magic, you have to cooperate with it and learn to work with it!), a lot of common C/C++ errors basically vanish
i.e. nullpointer deref is outright impossible without unsafe blocks
(Well its suppost to be, the occasional bug shows up in the rust STD, but that's pretty rare)
what i find hilarious is that originally, rust was suppost to be more like Erlang, with a large runtime, and now it's a low level language intended to compete with C
 
ngn
4:14 PM
@moonheart08 i've seen some fastest-code winning answers on ppcg in rust, so maybe i should look at it more closely. what puts me off for now is its extreme verbosity
 
Ven
It's misleading said that way :P. The "borrow checker" exists in any unmanaged environment. It just usually results in UB
 
@ngn verbosity has greatly reduced over time
i.e. the annoying old ::<> (Turbofish) has nearly become absent from normal code now
also, due to rust's safety first design, some really cool projects that depend heavily on it's type system have cropped up
I.e. in specs' case, it can automatically dispatch systems in parallel thanks to being able to verify what is used where
and unless you use unsafe code in your systems/components, specs' can maintain the "your stuff wont break when we parallelize system execution for you" guarantee without issue
oh i just realised i mistakenly tried to take over the APL orchard with rust
 
ngn
@moonheart08 fyi, this is one of the answers i was talking about
 
sorry Adám:P
@ngn bonus fact: Rust's optimizer still isn't near peak performance
they've mostly been focusing on usability, not speed, and just recently switched focus
 
ngn
@moonheart08 well... i'm trying to implement the fastest language on earth
 
4:24 PM
it's still pretty damn fast even then, that's my point
 
ngn
so i'll probably stick to c
 
give rust a chance ):
at least give it a speed comparison
 
ngn
yeah, i'm trying to keep an open mind
@moonheart08 i did, it was 50% slower than c, see the comments there
 
@ngn Why not move to b?
 
oh, rip
also, i think it's more that fastest code solution is verbose, because that's verbose even for rust
 
ngn
4:26 PM
@Adám is it free software? if a.w. releases it under a permissive licence, i'll probably consider it :) but it's unlikely
 
i wonder how well that answer performs with newer rust
 
ngn
@moonheart08 that guy (kaseorg) is amazing, btw, he quickly comes up with these incredibly efficient algorithms, and that's probably the reason why his code is verbose
 
heh, probably
i'm good at coming up with small algorithms for golf, but thinking outside the box for speed generally takes me a good while
 
ngn
he simply didn't put in effort to golf it
 
@ngn also, benchmark game, albet being a game, is a OKish speed comparison. Rust does better than C (GCC) for a good half the given benchmarks. benchmarksgame-team.pages.debian.net/benchmarksgame/faster/…
i.e. it's much faster at pi digits than C (EDIT: Turns out the timing is off, it's near the same, probably because the devs for it just embedded gmp via bindings)
however it seems rust currently has the fastest n-body impl of the bunch
bugs me that they told the rust compiler not to do reordering in the n-body code, but eh
(Sometimes rustc can be really smart about reordering structs)
 
ngn
4:37 PM
@moonheart08 can rust code link with c code?
 
Yup, Rust supports bindings to C code
cdecl structs/functions
 
ngn
it might be worth making an experiment with a small part of my language
of course, first i'll need to do a lot of reading...
 
ngn
@moonheart08 thanks
 
Note: Rust and C strings are different, rust natively treats strings as UTF8 and they are not null terminated, instead just keeping track of length
Conversion is required for interop there
 
4:42 PM
57 messages moved from The APL Orchard
 
@Adám sorry for the invasion
 
@moonheart08 No problem. Trust me, this wasn't the first time the APL Orchard went off-topic.
 
Ven
whistles
 
@Ven ?
 
My Problem with Rust is that the tooling isn't great.
cargo is awesome but the rust langserver isn't all that amazing and there's no good IDE
 
4:53 PM
??? Rust's cargo toolset is really nice in my opinion
 
...yes, it is.
There's more to tooling than a build system
 
good point. What part of it is a sore spot for you?
 
There's not anything that's particularly broken about it, the RLS is just missing many of the features I expect from, say, IntelliJ, or Visual Studio.
 
ah
RLS is still a WIP, those features will come eventually, but i dont blame you for that
but i personally never spoiled myself with features from IntelliJ and Visual Studio, mostly been a Atom person, and have been happy with the smaller featureset there
 
Also the standard library is small and it hasn't been around long enough for there to be a really solid buildup of useful crates.
But Rust is an amazing language, and I look forward to when the ecosystem around it becomes more mature over the next few years.
 
Ven
4:58 PM
@Adám Guilty as charged.
 
Same
Stuff like NAlgebra is already in a feature complete state too
so it's usable for some tasks already
(To the point that an entire OS was written in it :3)
 
Ven
what's this, the Doom test? :-)
 
@Ven I'm just waiting for you to update that post with description of the input format and , to award the bounty. Also, you have a "bytes" link in the TIO.
 
i also hope Cargo doesn't end up like the dependency hell that is NPM, but i'm pretty sure people learned from that
 
Ven
@Adám Oh, right. Oops. Went in a meeting and forgot.
 
5:01 PM
NPM is an exceptionally bad package manager. Much better ones have come before and after.
 
good point :P
 
@Pavel We are working on an APL Package Manager. Which package managers should we be inspired by (instead of NPM)?
 
Functionally cargo seems to be a combination of MSbuild and NuGet (Used for C#, Visual C++, etc.) but with different syntax for everything.
@Adám Depends if you want package management to be global or per-project.
 
Ven
@Adám ruby's or perl's
 
@Pavel I don't even know enough to answer that. Care to enlighten me?
 
Ven
5:05 PM
@Adám Don't you need to wait a week to award the bounty?
 
@Ven No, not when it is already destined for a specific answer.
 
Ven
@Pavel Package management should always be local. Ever heard of Dark Pip the Unwise? :P
 
@Adám C# package management with NuGet is per-project. For each project, you have to have a file dedicated to declaring dependencies. After installing packages for one project, you need to do it again to use them in a different one. Python packages with pip are installed globally. You just install them once and can use them from any python code run on your system.
 
@Pavel Ah, local then.
 
@Ven CPAN, the Comprehensive Perl Archive Network, is an amazing package ecosystem. cpan.pm, the package manager used to install these, is shite. cpanm.pm is better but I still wouldn't use Perl as an example of good package management. Also it's global.
 
Ven
5:09 PM
@Pavel oops, I meant perl 6, not 5.
 
@Adám NuGet is good then. There's also a .NET Core form of it, which makes it easier to use from a CLI.
 
@Pavel Oh, btw, it seems we're going to get .NET Core support relatively soon.
 
Projects are managed by a .csproj file, which contains all metadata for it, such as dependencies, defined symbols, target architectures, and such.
 
Damn, codegolf.stackexchange.com/questions/3105/… is closed, so my code wouldn't be accepted.
 
The dotnet build and dotnet run commands automatically restore packages if they aren't already, and you can easily add package with dotnet add package whatever.
Most package managers, even local ones, are happy to restore packages from configuration files for you but .NET Core's interface allows you to manage your project's dependencies without editing configuration files by hand.
 
5:17 PM
@ThePlasmaRailgun looks in ok that's a very impressive x86 16-bit program
 
404
 
You need enough rep to be able to see deleted posts, my bad
 
oh, it's deleted, that explains it
 
6 hours ago, by Adám
> I Know Bassdrop. But I Plz Need Your Help In Solving These Two Questions Only. I Am Very Behind On My Syllabus & I Have Just Started Javascript. It Would Be very helpful Of You Guys If you Help Me On This One. Plz – Karandeep Singh
 
5:21 PM
I need to do more x86-64 golf
 
Ven
Oh, my rep on SO works to see deleted posts on SE, nice.
 
@moonheart08 What, the 64 bytes DOS one? I love that one.
 
yea it looks awesome
if only it was that lightweight to make an answer like that in x86-64 for linux
i mean i could write my own OS for golf, but that's a bit much :p
 
how would 64 golf work? I thought most useful operations 32 bit. you're just going to get truncated answers.
 
i just do it in x86-64 because it's A) familiar and B) has 16 registers, which can be quite helpful
 
5:26 PM
^
And most computers are 64 bit anyways
At least nowadays
 
32bit only has 8 GPR: EAX EBX ECX EDX EBP ESI EDI and ESP
 
@Ven I'm pretty sure it doesn't work that way
 
@Ven yeah, I agree that we should probably raise the privilege levels sometime... although there is a (slow) evolution towards that :P
 
ESP is basically forbidden if you want to use the stack
 
You only need 2k here to see deleted posts
 
5:27 PM
and EBP is sometimes forbidden, depending on the calling env
 
I really want to get more rep, but I'm just plain trash at golfing.
 
tbf for some problems tho, 32-bit would do better
i'm just more at home in the 64-bit env
i.e. codegolf.stackexchange.com/a/180783/77964 couid get a reduced bytecount just by taking my code and converting it to 32bit
 
I read something really exciting today. That matrixes can be represented as bipartite graphs.
It literally blew my mind
 
Ven
@DJMcMayhem well, it does
 
uh... how?
you already have 2222 rep here
 
Ven
5:39 PM
it's 10k to see deleted answers
 
Not on PPCG
 
Ven
wait, it's not the same as on SO?
 
Ven
ohh. OK. my mistake.
 
PPCG is undesigned, and therefore has lower rep requirements
 
Ven
5:40 PM
stale backlog, I only read the @, sorry DJ :).
 
51
Q: Can we raise the privilege levels?

DJMcMayhemPPCG has graduated. Some features for graduated sites come immediately after graduating. However, other features are held off for an indefinite amount of time: The site gets a custom theme, and Privilege levels, which are initially lowered to help growing beta sites grow, are raised to match th...

No worries :)
The only times that rep on one site affects other sites is assoc bonus (200 rep) and chat (10k)
 
chat.SE, where sites with 200+ rep count IIRC, more specifically :P
 
Ven
isn't assoc bonus 100?
fairly sure I have 101 rep pretty much everywhere :)
 
Yeah, it is +100. I meant it kicks in at 200 (I think)
It's been a looong time since I earned assoc bonus lol
 
yes, it's at 200 rep on one site
 
Ven
5:42 PM
oh, right
well, I haven't contributed much to SO/SE since 2017, so I forgot most of the details :).
 
no one shares my love of graphs :'(
 
Assoc bonus?
 
the association bonus, where you automatically earn +100 rep on every SE community if you have at least 200 rep in one; it's referred to as "assoc" in the reputation log
 
Weird
My frustration with the idea of raising the privilege levels is that it's already kinda difficult to earn rep
Like, I spent 3 hours on this Brainfuck answer and I haven't even earned a single bit of rep off of it codegolf.stackexchange.com/a/180597/75773
 
Tbf, that question is 3 and a half years old...
 
5:49 PM
well here, take some rep. Brainfuck answers will always impress me :P
 
Thank you
Oh, I didn't even realize it was 3 years old lol
I just clicked on questions on the left, I thought it was sorted by time
 
you must click the "Newest" tab to sort them from newest to oldest
 
Anyone else here have their caps lock key disabled to use it as a macro/etc?
 
Haven't felt the need to but I probably could considering I only use shift for caps
 
yea, same here, hence why i reconfigured it
 
6:07 PM
No, I might though now that you say that
 
6:21 PM
I can't remember the last time I've un-accidentally hit the Capslock key...
 
-1
Q: Develop a C++ program to sort items of a structs-of-array with struct inovice consisting unsigned int custNo; unsigned short amount; string owner;

sushma patilDevelop a C++ program to sort items of a structs-of-array. Assume that the struct is struct invoice { unsigned int custNo; unsigned short amount; string owner; }; Create an array with 20 invoices, which are randomly initiated with custNO (100-10000), amount (100-2000 as dollar amount), owner (...

 
My sister turns caps on and off to capitalize a single letter. shudders
 
wtaf
 
That's what I thought
 
6:54 PM
in speed typing using caps key is faster than reaching for the shift
 
....?
doesn't seem to be the case for me
 
i think i read it off play.typeracer.com a while ago
when being a fast typer was cool.
 
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