The APL Orchard

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chrispsn

08:06

A bit random, but...

I wonder whether machine learning could help decide which types and primitives (eg whether booleans should exist instead of mere single bits; whether a 'where' function should exist) would be a promising approach for designing "restricted instruction" languages like APL, J and K.

If you have say n slots for concepts, where n is equal to the number of ASCII characters to which to assign an abstract idea, you could aim to minimise "# characters required" times "# secs required" (weighted as appropriate) given a benchmark suite of problems.

10 hours later…

Graham

17:50

@Adam. Karen was very helpful and I have Dyalog running on a couple of my machines. Unfortunately the differences between APL+WIN and Dyalog appear huge outside the basic glyphs. Most of my apps will need a complete rewrite if I am to move over.

2 hours later…

Graham

19:53

@Adam Karen has my email address which I am happy for you to use. I have imported several workspaces into Dyalog and nothing works. At the most basic level quad AV does not line up with ASCII so all my apps using compressed binary files fail as a consequence.

Adám

@Graham Ah, yes, that'll fail, but setting up a translation scheme should be trivial (but tedious)

Graham

@Adam That is trivial I agree but moving beyond that into TCP/IP, HTTP etc I would need to move over to Conga. APL+WIN allows a much lower level interfaces. I have other apps with multiple low level interfaces which I would have to rewrite if possible in Dyalog.

Adám

@Graham Dyalog does have a low level TCP/IP interface. Most people just prefer not to bother with that.

Graham

20:13

@Adam That might be true but having the ability to write these interfaces normally yields a lower footprint. My point is not to argue but to indicate what would be involved in migrating to Dyalog. I have yet to venture into graphics. The related Dyalog web pages are "under development"

Adám

@Graham Yeah, our website needs help. Which pages in particular are you looking at?

Graham

@Adam dyalog.com/tools/graphics-and-publishing.htm, dyalog.com/syncfusion-controls-examples-using-apl.htm All the Bowman links fail. Dick was the guy who got me into APL back in our CEGB days

Adám

@Graham Wow, an entire area of our website and product I have never seen/

Graham

@Adam That is not a confidence inspiring response. I would suggest we take our discussions off line and use person to person comms.

Adám

@Graham Eh, I'm not a manager, or involved with our website. Those things just have not been relevant for the work I do. You are of course welcome to communicate directly with me (adam@) or support@.

Graham

20:30

@Adam OK I understand. I will mail you.

Graham

21:15

@Adam Mail sent

Adám

@Graham And read.

@Graham I actually grew up with APL*PLUS (as it was called) myself. I still miss IDE features, and the "newest" version I ever played with was APL*PLUS II/386 from '92.

Graham

@Adam I still have a copy on my win98 machine.

Adám

I'd love to see what APL+ became, but you know, pricing…

@Graham At least you should learn Dyalog APL for golfing!

Graham

@Adam In fact some of the apps I developed on that system still work today. The one thing I have been impressed by with the APL+WIN system is that things just keep on working despite the passage of time.

@Adam apl2000.com/pricing.php

Adám

@Graham That's mostly true for all APL systems (except K), I think. I had fun porting a game from APL\360 to modern Dyalog. I only had to change a couple of ⌶s to system functions, and replace an old functionality that has disappeared.

@Graham Yeah, I'm sorry, I won't spend $1750 out of curiosity. Maybe that's just me.

Btw, @Graham you can respond to a specific message (makes it easier for people to follow conversations) by hovering over a message and then clicking the bent arrow in he lower left corner of the message.

Graham

21:28

@Adam It is not just you. I do not know their client base but they certainly are not interested in furthering the adoption of APL. OK I will try your hovering suggestion. Remember I am a newbie here

Adám

@Graham Not a problem. The chat interface is a bit odd, but there is a sandbox room you can use to experiment.

Graham

22:17

@Adam Sorry I just hovered over your last message clicked on the left arrow and nothing noticeable happened. I also went to the sandbox and you will see my reaction there. I guess it is time for me to sign off.

Adám

@Graham sorry, lower right. ⍨

Graham

@Adam lower right. ⍨?

Adám

@Graham I use ⍨ as a frown. Lower right corner.

Graham

@Adam :( is more recognisable. So I guess this is good bye. See you in code golf.

Adám

@Graham ○/ ← waving hand

Graham

22:26