@Adám Just out of curiosity, if you have TryAPL, why do you need tio for it?

@AndrewSavinykh TryAPL is very limited. Examples of missing features: TradFns, Namespaces, OO, Control Structures, Multi-line functions, saving multiple lines in one permalink, files, utility libraries, ⍎ (execute), ⌶ (system services), any I/O, various system settings...

@Adám is it running a special version of Dyalog APL with those features removed?

@AndrewSavinykh No, it is running a real Dyalog APL, but input is filtered to remove potentially dangerous things. Dennis' system is just better, so it can allow much more.

@AndrewSavinykh Some things are not dangerous per se, like multi-line functions and control structures, but require a different mode (non-REPL), which isn't available with way TryAPL's interface has been set up.

@Adám yep, that makes sense

@AndrewSavinykh TIO, is opposite, it doesn't have a meaningful REPL, so the whole interactive ("dialogue") way of writing APL is gone.

@AndrewSavinykh My father (who was a great APLer) taught me a fully interactive, top-down way to coding:

First we define the top level of what we want: Average←{(Sum ⍵) Divided_by (Count ⍵)}

@Adám, APL reference do get stale fast. Was clicking from your links above (which are all good) but some references from dyalog site are no longer. Like this vector.org.uk or this aprogramminglanguage.com

Where did you find those links?

... Trying Average 3 1 4 5 causes APL to ask what Count means. So we tell it: Count←≢.

Trying Average 3 1 4 5 again, causes APL to ask about Divided_by. So we say Divided_by←÷.

Next, Average 3 1 4 5 asks what is Sum? Sum←+/.

Now it works!

A couple are on the links tab of tryapl.org, the other one is at aplwiki.com. Apolgies I misspoke I asumed that tryapl.org is Dyalog's; these are all probably third party sites you do not control.

@Adám ^^^

@AndrewSavinykh TryAPL is indeed run by us, although we try to keep it away from promoting Dyalog specifically. APLWiki is run by independent Kai Jäger, but if you tell me exactly which link is wrong, I'll tell him to fix it (he is German - he will fix it - fast).

@AndrewSavinykh AH, found the faulty Vector link.

@Adám His can be probably replaced by this one: archive.vector.org.uk/art10011550

@AndrewSavinykh Nah, just removing the www is enough: vector.org.uk

@Adám, one more question, I got the license for setting up tio and it's working fine, but I'm curious, and I'd like to try APL on Windows. What is a better option for me, use the unregistered version with nag screen or to apply for an additional windows license?

After all Windows is my main habitat...

@AndrewSavinykh Just ask for Windows being added to your license, It'll then show up on MyDyalog

@AndrewSavinykh Oh, do it. The IDE is a whole different experience. RIDE is getting there, but has a long way to go...

@Adám using the same form?

@AndrewSavinykh You can just throw an email to sales@

thanks!

I just noticed Please note: You will be entitled to download Dyalog APL and the patches for 14 days. After this time you are still entitled to use Dyalog APL but you will not be able to log in to MyDyalog to download or patch the software without applying for a full DSS Subscription.

Better download and save it somewhere then!

Lol too late, it's been 15 days already. That's what happen with people who do not read auto-generated emails ;)

@AndrewSavinykh But you should have full DSS like Dennis - Dyalog's recognition of your contribution to the APL community.

@AndrewSavinykh They can always reapply.

@AndrewSavinykh See, the thing is that Dyalog APL is really a commercial product. If a private person wants to give it a try, or even have it around forever to play with, that's fine. But there is really no reason to stay completely up to date, except on a real production system. Any major bugs would reasonably show up in two weeks, but if a non-DSS user does report a serious bug after 14 days, he'll be allowed to download the patches for that.

@Adám I do not. But that's fine. Karen responded that I need to apply again, which I did and I got Windows one this time. One bizare thing that the password to login the side is empty and that it works with empty password

@Adám It's not staying up-to-date that worries me, but simply that if I lost the drive I have nowhere to re-download from. Even non up-to-date version

@AndrewSavinykh That's not right. we agreed that you'd get DSS too. Hang on.

@AndrewSavinykh OK, our IT guy was already aware and is currently fixing this issue. Please email your username to sales@ and say you can login without password. Also remind her that you're mirroring TIO, and need DSS like Dennis. (Karen was there at my presentation of TIO last week.)

@Adám I appreciate you having looked into this for me. I emailed back to sales.

On a different note, the download is painfully slow 50 KB/s and while it's downloading, my.dyalog.com is not responding at all, I'm suspecting that it's limited to a single connection per IP on the server

@AndrewSavinykh The Vector links are being fixed as we speak. I contacted aplwiki and Optima Systems (who run Vector).

@Adám, thanks you!

@AndrewSavinykh Fixed. Thanks.