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12:09 AM
It's used a lot in legal contexts.
I've also noticed Unger uses it in his linguistics writings when referring to sources.
I always just read it as "section", FWIW. :)
 
Anonymous
It's used in lots of books
 
Anonymous
What prompted me to think about it today was when I was copying a section out of CGEL and realized I didn't know how to type it :-)
 
I've almost never tried to input it, except once ages ago in a Word doc, when I resorted to Insert > Symbol and scrolled through. :)
 
 
2 hours later…
Anonymous
2:06 AM
@EiríkrÚtlendi I saw a comment someone posted on the question you answered, but they deleted it
 
Anonymous
It said all of どうしようもなく流れる濁流のように急激な was one phrase that modified 感情の波
 
ssb
6:20 AM
Are any of you good with Mathematica
 
@EiríkrÚtlendi 濁流っていうと、こういうイメージなんで google.co.uk/…
@snailboat 学校の教科書や問題集に「§」が使われてる時があって、「セクションいち」「セクションに」とかいう感じで読みますけど、
それ以外には、あまり使われてないので、あまり馴染みはない気がします
 
ssb
6:36 AM
@snailboat clearly it's a simoleon!
 
(「~~は無い気がします」って打とうとしたら「~~鼻息がします」って変換される)
@snailboat え、わたし?
ちゃうやんなあ・・・
 
Anonymous
6:54 AM
@Choko Oh not the deleted answer, there was a deleted comment (by 非回答者さん)
 
Anonymous
I don't know how long it was there before he deleted it
 
sad -- I just learned that NHK is very expensive here.
I mean I know that my cable TV has news channels from many places around the world. Things like CNN, BBC, CNBC Hong Kong, a Chinese news channel, TV5 Monde.
 
Anonymous
When I lived in Illinois, I didn't have any Japanese TV broadcast locally
 
And I thought I had NHK too, but I don't. :( If I'd like to have it, I will need to pay almost the double of what I pay every month.
 
Anonymous
Here, we have a channel called テレビジャパン
 
7:08 AM
@snailboat Oh! So you had to learn Japanese from some other things, I think. :)
 
Anonymous
By the way, テレビ = TV
 
Anonymous
@DamkerngT. I started out with reading mainly
 
Anonymous
But I had a friend who taught me some Japanese when I was starting out, which helped
 
Anonymous
My path over the lasts umpteen years has been pretty inefficient, really… :-)
 
Anonymous
Some people here like ssb or Earthliŋ have learned a lot faster, I think
 
Anonymous
7:09 AM
But I'm persistent! :-)
 
@snailboat Me too! :)
 
Anonymous
Participating in Japanese.SE has been pretty educational for me.
 
Anonymous
Plus, I've had the opportunity to ask some pretty dumb questions :-)
 
Anonymous
@ssb Oh, I have The Sims! :-)
 
ssb
The Sims is good of course, but I'm a diehard simcity fan
 
Anonymous
7:12 AM
@Choko Ooh! I didn't realize until just now I could type セクション and get § :-)
 
Anonymous
@ssb Reticulating splines
 
ssb
I remember watching a video with the developers before simcity 2013 came out
 
Anonymous
@Choko Hehe!
 
ssb
And one of them said that "reticulating splines" refers to splitting splines into several parts
But later I read that 'reticulation' was completely made up!
 
Anonymous
The last one I played was Simcity 2000
 
ssb
7:13 AM
I felt completely the fool
 
Ahh... Simcity brings back some good old memories.
 
ssb
I've played every version except simcity societies
 
Anonymous
@ssb Hey, nice use of felt with a predicative complement with an intensifier!
 
I'm not sure which version I played though, but I'm sure it's a very old one.
 
Anonymous
I don't think I've ever noticed anyone do that before
 
ssb
7:15 AM
Yeah I often get complimented on my intensified predicative complements
 
Anonymous
I've been reading about Japanese adjectives
 
Anonymous
One claim I've read in two places is that unlike in English, all Japanese adjectives (both 形容詞 and 形容動詞) are gradable
 
Oh, I remember that my Simcity had a Godzilla visit sometimes!
 
Anonymous
Although の-adjectives aren't, if you admit their existence (they're not considered to exist in 学校文法 though…)
 
Anonymous
@DamkerngT. ゴジラ!
 
ssb
7:19 AM
In the SNES version it's Bowser
 
Anonymous
> 1.     白い羽
> 2.     白の羽
> 3.  とても白い羽
> 4. *とても白の羽
 
Anonymous
Those are examples from a paper
 
Anonymous
(I think though that 白い羽 is more normal than 白の羽)
 
Anonymous
> 5.     わずかなお金
> 6.     わずかのお金
> 7.  もっとわずかなお金
> 8. *もっとわずかのお金
 
Anonymous
(Examples from The Internal Structure of Adjectives in Japanese by Chigusa Morita)
 
Anonymous
7:26 AM
Word of the day: equipollent
 
(message moved to ELL)
 
@snailboat おおお・・・
TNのおじさん・・・じゃなくて・・・Hのおじさん
 
ssb
7:49 AM
oh no..
 
 
1 hour later…
Anonymous
8:52 AM
Does anyone have 日本語文法入門ハンドブック?
 
9:27 AM
@snailboat もってないです・・・
図書館にあるかなぁ
@ssb Dariusさんですかね
 
> とてもたくさんの
> とても多くの
But they can be consider as adverbs.
> ほんの わずかな
> ほんの少しの
What role does ほんの play? I think it is more like an adverb.
> もっと前のこと/時代
In Chinese, I think only red, white and black are gradable adjectives.
 
 
1 hour later…
Tim
11:05 AM
@snailboat Fraid not.
@snailboat: BTW, thank you for that paper on copulas. it is a real revelation - so many things I have been wondering or at best working out for myself. Can't understand why this area is not taught properly.
I am now looking for a good reference on use of particle と,especially for quotations. Does anybody have any suggestions?
 
 
1 hour later…
Tim
12:15 PM
@snailboat What do you need to know? Is it a specific page?
@YangMuye They are just for emphasis arn't they? I was about to suggest ほんに少し
when I saw you had included it. In English it correlates very well with with "just" a little (sugar) rather than a little: the person requested will be careful not to add more sugar than you¨want and will probably confirm that they are not going to add too much.
(Is this what you wanted to know?)
 
12:46 PM
Despite its form, which is clearly adnominal, ほんの has an adverbial function. I found dictionaries listing it under 連体詞, but I don't think it's really an adjective.
Nevertheless, some words are both adjectives and adverbs, such as すごい/すげー
You can say ほんのわずかです, but you can't say ほんのです. In this respect, ほんの is different from すごい.
 
 
3 hours later…
3:22 PM
お土産やお中元を渡すときに言う「ほんの気持ちですが・・・。」の「ほんの」は、形容詞みたいだけどね
たいていの場合「ほんの」は副詞的に使いますよね
「すごい」「すげー」を副詞的に使って用言を修飾する使い方は、若者中心に見られる、近年の口語的な用法ですけどね。
小・中学校などで、作文に「すごい大きな木が・・・」と書いたら、「すごく大きな木が・・」と直されると思います
 
Anonymous
3:53 PM
@Choko 明鏡国語辞典 says that it's a 連体詞 and gives examples like 「ほんのおしるしです」「まだほんの子どもで…」
 
Anonymous
But then it says 「ほんの少ししかない」のように、副詞としても使う。
 
Anonymous
大辞林, 大辞泉, 集英社国語辞典, 精選版 日本国語大辞典, 広辞苑 all list it as 連体詞
 
Anonymous
岩波国語辞典 lists it as 連体詞 but says 「ほんの少し」「ほんの時折」のように副詞を修飾することがある。
 
Anonymous
So only 明鏡 and 岩波 mention that usage, out of the 7 monolingual dictionaries I checked
 
Anonymous
明鏡 is still my favorite monolingual dictionary :-)
 
Anonymous
4:01 PM
@Tim No, I was just looking through it on Google Books and it seemed pretty interesting, and I wondered if I should get it
 
4:35 PM
@snailboat Thanks, yeah, I can now see deleted posts too. :) Choko's reply is what prompted my question earlier, before he (she?) deleted it. And now I see it's been reinstated.
 
4:48 PM
@Choko やっぱ、「激しい」とはこっちの辞書に書いてなかったのです。ご啓蒙ありがとうございます。(^^)Chokoさんの回答を読んだしばらく後、「さぁ、濁流ってもしかした‌​ら*豪雨*によって濁った水かな」、と思うようになりました。掲載になったGoogleのイメージを見て単なる「濁った水」よりも「鉄砲水」のようなものでしょうね。あとで‌​自分の回答を編集するつもりです。
@snailboat Huh, didn't see that, but that's essentially what Choko said. Getting a better understanding of 濁流 changes the かかりあい for me, I'll have to edit my post later.
 
Anonymous
5:03 PM
@Tim I've read several papers on と now, but I'm not sure what to recommend because I still don't really have a coherent picture in my mind
 
6:24 PM
@YangMuye I'd agree that it's adverbial in those cases, but it's also somewhat of a 連体詞 in that it can only adverbially prepend 形容動詞 (or other 連体詞 like 小さな), which tend to be more noun-like. ほんの cannot adverbially modify a regular old 形容詞, AFAIK.
 
Anonymous
@EiríkrÚtlendi It can modify 副詞
 
Anonymous
@EiríkrÚtlendi How do you tree examples like ほんの短い間 and ほんの軽い冗談?
 
Tim
11:26 PM
@snailboat Thanks anyway.
 

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