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Anonymous
3:06 AM
Do people really feel 〜なきゃ is girly? But male speakers say it too . . .
 
Anonymous
@Schoko Yay! :-)
 
6:13 AM
@snailboat Not at all! I would even say 0% gender disparity for that one. (Compared to 〜なくちゃ which I guess is at least non-zero?)
 
Anonymous
@mirka Oh! Perhaps you would be willing to add a comment here? :-) japanese.stackexchange.com/a/28336/1478
 
Anonymous
After oldergod's comment, they edited their answer to say 'mostly feminine' for なきゃ
 
@snailboat Eek. I'm not sure how productive another comment would be, given the subjective nature of the matter… Nevermind my personal objections against labeling speech patterns as masculine or feminine, in this day and age! :)
 
Anonymous
@mirka Oh, I understand :-)
 
Anonymous
Thank you for your input!
 
4:12 PM
2
Q: Difference between ば and たら in this example

Ahmed Abdel Moneim Elket明日都合がよければきてください. 東京へきたら、ぜひ連絡してください. Why in the second example we can't replace たら with ば but in the first one we use ば. Aren't きてください and 連絡してください both requests or is there a difference?

I cannot think of a single coherent reason why 来れば連絡してください doesn't work. Even putting the keigo issue aside, 来れば案内するよ, 来るなら(ば)連絡してね, and 来ることがあれば連絡してね all work, but 来れば連絡してね is super weird! What's going on here??
 
4:29 PM
I think 〜ば〜ください never works except in the case of あれば.
Just a personal feeling, but 〜ば feels like it's lacking some important element. 来たら has the 〜た perfect element in it. なら(ば) has the copula なり in it. あれば obviously has ある in it. ば on it's on is just... blank.
(An argument from etymology, a.k.a not so great, but I think there is some related semantic property.)
Wait no, it definitely does work, argh. It doesn't work when it's like a normal active verb on the left. Needs to be stative?
いれば、あれば、できれば、わかれば、any i-adjective
 
Needs to be stative って気もしてんけど・・・
「都合がつけば来てくれ。」とかもいけるような・・・
ホンマむずい
「たら・れば」は
前に、誰か、「したら、すれば、すると」の違いを分析したページを教えてくれたけど、
見つからん
また明日・・
 
4:51 PM
What do you think of 間違っていれば教えてください?
 
いいと思います 「~していれば」stativeなかんじで
間違えば教えてください、はダメね
間違ったら教えてください、ならいいね
 
「間違っていたら」も問題ないですね。
 
そうですね~
ややこしいな~
ルールがいまいち分からん~
 
「間違っていたら教えてください」と「間違っていれば教えてください」は両方"if I am wrong please let me know"の意味ですか?(「間違ったら教えてください」の"if I make a mistake please let me know"の意味じゃなくて。)
あれ、「間違ったら教えてください」も"if I am/was wrong please let me know"を意味する場合もあるような気が…
 
 
1 hour later…
6:12 PM
@Schoko もしかしてこれ? japanese.stackexchange.com/questions/28171/…
これ、「着けば連絡するよ (I'll call if I get there)」と「着いたら連絡するよ (I'll call when I get there)」の決定的な違いまではきれいに説明つくんだけど、「明日都合よかったら来てね」と「来れば連絡してね」の前には無力なんだわ……
「都合がつけば来てね」「電波が届けば電話してね」「来れれば連絡してね」 all work
↑ Oh, are these all stative? Then I guess stative might be the answer.
 
6:28 PM
Yeah, potential forms are stative.
 
6:48 PM
Well, condolences to the OP, because I'm already confused with what verbs are dynamic or stative!
@DariusJahandarie I think you should convert your comment to an answer. I like your etymological explanation too.
It amazes me how many strict, logical rules we follow without even knowing what they are. This Stack Exchange experience has really led me to reconsider Chomsky…
 
7:16 PM
 
7:46 PM
@mirka Thanks. I want to turn it into an answer, but I don't yet understand why it matters that the condition be stative. Maybe because without it, the statement is sort of "floating around", not locked down to a specific time? With 来れば案内するよ, the 来る event is clearly in future thanks to the する, but with 来れば連絡してください it doesn't have a time?
I don't have a good enough intuition to figure out "where" or "how" it feels wrong...
 
8:17 PM
Yes, I can't get to the root cause too. Maybe it has something to do with when the if-clause subject is the same as the result-clause subject. (あなたが)来れば(私が)案内するよ is clearly ok. 熱が下がれば(あなたが)連絡してね or 電車が来れば(あなたが)連絡してね don't feel as glaringly wrong as (あなたが)来れば(あなたが)連絡してね.
(Sorry if 熱が下がる and 電車が来る are stative. I think they're dynamic, but I just learned this concept and don't fully understand it yet.)
 
Yeah, they're both dynamic. In the first example I think it's still (あなたが)熱が下がれば though.
Do 〜してください clauses actually have grammatical subjects? I think the actor of the verb is the listener, but it's news to me if you can actually put a が-marked thing in there -- is that just a short-hand?
 
Isn't it あなた 熱が下がれば?
(shoot, maybe i don't understand subjects either...)
 
That's certainly a more natural sentence if you were to actually include あなた, but my theory about how omission works in Japanese is that it's actually あなたは/あなたが being omitted (and the "possesion" between the subject and the other element is implicit, just like in 太郎は背が高い and 太郎は財布を盗まれた).
Maybe I shouldn't bring my fairly unsubstantiated theories into conversations though. :P
 
8:37 PM
あなたが○○○してください is totally a thing, if that's what you're asking? (google for "ば、あなたが*してください")
 
Oh wow. Didn't know that.
 
Gotta get to bed. I'm looking forward to what you guys figure out :)
 
Wait, now that I think about it, 〜が〜しろ is pretty common isn't it.
Night! Thanks for your help!
 

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