Japanese Language

I like the way how this is addressed at Java Ranch: Be Forthright When Cross Posting To Other Sites ...keep in mind that this is not generally in the interests of the posters who might be responding to your posts - those folks may find they've wasted their time. You certainly don't want to a...

Flaw

(what's difference between そうです and そうなのです?)

Anonymous

@Flaw I still think your "combining two adjectives" question was a good one. Did you get an answer to it?

Flaw

Oh I did not post a question for it

Anonymous

Oh, I saw that you didn't post an official question, but I wondered if you had come up with an answer yourself

Anonymous

2:38 PM

or found an answer elsewhere

Flaw

I came up with たり～たり

I guess it isn't a strict "or"

Anonymous

Ah, I found it!

Anonymous

Apr 10 at 13:40, by Flaw

How do I say "can become A or B"

Flaw

blue or red > 青かったり、赤かったり

Chocolate

I have noticed Donet-san posts on WR too but he posts here only when he doesn't get satisfactory answers on WR

Flaw

2:42 PM

I'm not going to be very good at braining for the next few moments. I'm occupied with Leontief Model and Markov Chains.

Anonymous

Ah, understood!

Anonymous

Markov chains are fun.

Anonymous

I've generated a lot of gibberish with markov chains :-)

Flaw

マトリックスを勉強しています

Anonymous

Also, I'm glad you asked that question about 多い, because that Bag o' Wisdom answer was really helpful to me, and I'd never have found it otherwise

Flaw

2:44 PM

Bag o' Wisdom?

oh!

知恵袋

Anonymous

Hehe!

Flaw

I guess I'm braining pretty decently afterall haha

Anonymous

Woo hoo!

Anonymous

I'm braining at maybe 50% capacity.

Flaw

Did you manage get good sleep?

Anonymous

2:45 PM

I did! ^-^

Anonymous

I just bundled up lots of blankets around my ears. Hehe!

Anonymous

I'm learning Japanese grammar, little by little.

Flaw

I want to go read the link on 多い properly. But I have to do my math.

Anonymous

My dream is to someday write a Lang-8 post that doesn't require very many corrections.

Anonymous

行列！

Flaw

2:48 PM

I'm not having much fun with math now. Maybe I should take a break and read the page on 多い instead =D

Anonymous

Hehe! Well

Anonymous

detail.chiebukuro.yahoo.co.jp/qa/question_detail/q1119466121

Anonymous

Apparently 連文節 is the term for combining those things together into a larger modifier

Anonymous

They give the examples 事故の多い交差点。人口の多い国。

Anonymous

And say that that sort is okay, even though 多い人 is not

Flaw

2:52 PM

because 多い doesn't modify 国; it is the predicate to 人口.

Then the entire clause 人口の多い modifies 国

Anonymous

Yes, that

Flaw

So 多い is strictly predicative?

ssb

i believe it is

Anonymous

I think that's right, as long as you don't include 多く in that definition

Flaw

I need to improve my Japanese more.

I can't read that post without having to refer to dictionary for almost every other word.

Anonymous

2:58 PM

Keep gaining experience points!

Flaw

If only life was so easily quantified.

Anonymous

I was happy when I was adding kanji to anki all the time.

Flaw

And by killing practice questions we gain exp points to level up skills in some field.

Anonymous

It gave me a score!

Anonymous

I got up to about 2600 kanji and then I stopped adding very many.

Anonymous

3:00 PM

Now I feel like I haven't made any progress because I haven't gotten many points.

Anonymous

Must get more points!

Anonymous

In the game I was playing the other day, a character said:

「ほっほっほっ。マックスにイワン。
また、ともに戦う事になってしもうたのう。」

I was a bit confused by the use of に. I looked up に and found it could be a 並立助詞, so I think that's what it was. I'm not sure though. Daijisen says:

［並助］並列・列挙・添加・取り合わせを表す。「バター―チーズ―牛乳」「月―むら雲、花―嵐」

Anonymous

That looks like it could be it, but I don't know that use of に

Anonymous

I was trying to figure out if it could be some other に.

Flaw

2

A: Differences between listing particles と, や and に

I have the feeling that に under the relevant usage is used adverbially and implies "remembering the item one after another while listing", and I think it requires at least three items. Two is too short for remembering one after another. 　AにBにCが来た ?* AにBが来た　AにBにCが結婚した ?* AにBが結婚した ...

Anonymous

3:04 PM

If that's right, then I was thinking of asking a question about this use of に (how it differs from と)

Anonymous

Oh!!

Anonymous

Requires at least 3 items?

Anonymous

Is this a different に then? like マックスにイワン（まで？）

Anonymous

I should turn this into a Question somehow...

Flaw

I don't know. What are マックス and イワン?

Names?

Anonymous

3:08 PM

They are people that the speaker hasn't seen in a while

Flaw

I suppose that satisfies "remembering"

Anonymous

So would that be the implication? The speaker (ヤマモト先生） was trying to remember their names, and if he had said と, there would be no such implication?

Anonymous

Too bad it's not in the Makino grammar dictionaries.

Anonymous

I should check my other books

Anonymous

Have you heard of this giant 日本語文法大辞典?

ssb

3:14 PM

this use of に refers to things that come as a set

i see it often in reference to food

Anonymous

Yeah, the 大辞泉 example listed 3 foods

Anonymous

Well, one example did

ssb

without context i'd say your sentence matches that usage of ni

especially since afterward he references fighting together

jkerian

Kuno includes に in his "listing" chapter... which was a bit of a mystery to me when I first read it

Anonymous

Hey, the Kenkyusha has tons of examples.

Anonymous

3:19 PM

Where are you, grammar book

Anonymous

Ah! This one talks about に

Anonymous

(this is my other grammar book amazon.co.jp/… )

Anonymous

The section is titled ～に～累加や取り合わせを表す形式

Anonymous

And its first example is food, too

Flaw

@jkerian Which chapter was that?

jkerian

3:29 PM

Maybe I'm mistaken, but I thought it was one of the earlier ones (5 or 6 or so)

Anonymous

4:06 PM

～に～　-累加や取り合わせを表す形式-

(1)　大根ににんじんに、えーと、それからトマトをもらおうかしら。
(2)　「月に雁」とはよく言ったものだ。

これだけは
◆「～に～」は先に挙げたものに付け加えて後の要素を挙げたり（累加）、
特定の取り合わせとして要素を挙げる形式です。
◆累加の「～に～」は先に挙げたものに付け加えて後の要素を挙げていくと
いう意味から、思いつくまま挙げるという印象が感じられます。

(3)　イタリア旅行ではいろんな都市を訪ねたね。ローマにフィレンツェ
でしょ、それからミラノにヴェネツィアも行ったかしら。

◆「～に～」には(2)や次の(4)のようによく組み合わされるものを並べて言う
ときにもよく用いられます。

(4)　ビールにおつまみはいかがですか。

もうすこし
◆累加の接続詞「それに」はこの用法の「に」が含まれています。
◆「ＶマスにＶ」という形が用いられることもあります。

(5)　自分で考えに考えて出した結論を先生は尊重してくれなかった。

この場合、「念入りに、操り返しねばり強く」などの意味を持ちます。

◆「ＶマスにＶ」はサ変動詞には使いません。

jkerian

wall of text crits for 1000!

Anonymous

The chat was fatally wounded :-(

jkerian

Stack Exchange chat will return shortly, we're having some fun on the database transfers to New York

Tweeted by StackStatus on April 16, 2013 at 3:57 PM

well... that didn't work at all... phixed

Anonymous

It doesn't look to me from that description (or from the examples in dictionaries) like に requires 3 coordinates

Anonymous

4:24 PM

Also, it says 思いつくまま, which I think is a little more general than "trying to remember"? Like, if you're thinking to think of things (but not from memory)

djahandarie

5:24 PM

Explaining things can be hard...

I've modified this answer so many times.

Very good practice to think about this so hard though.

I really want to make a website explaining Japanese grammar in a more logical / laid out way, but I simply don't trust myself enough to do that.

It will happen one day though. Maybe in a year or two.

djahandarie

8:23 PM

@Chocolate Does my edit to that answer seem a little better?

Chocolate

「国へ帰る時、かばんを買いました。でもやっぱり帰りませんでした。」は、
「～～。でも、結局、帰国できませんでした。」とか
「でも、結局、国には入れませんでした(←何かの手違いで入国できなかった感じ)。」とか
「でも、結局/その後、帰国できなくなってしまいました。(何か起こって、出発できなかった感じ)」とかの方が自然かなと思います

「道を（毎日）走る時、宇宙人を見たことがありました。」は、
When I was running は、日本語でも「走っていたら」とか「走っていると」とか「走っている時(に)」と、「ている」を使う方が自然なので、どうしたら「走る時」を使えるか、考えていますが・・・

困ってます。＾＾；

djahandarie

Well, I'm not trying to use the progressive. For example... 彼が毎晩寝る前に読む本はコミックミステリいだった

I'm doing the same thing that 読む is doing in that sentence.

"Habitual".

Chocolate

「この道を走る時(は)、いつも~~」とか、習慣を表すなら、良い例文が出来そうな気がしますが、どうでしょう。

彼が毎晩寝る前に読む本は、いつも、

コミックミステリーだ・です or だった/でした。

とか。

djahandarie

8:38 PM

Hmmm

Chocolate

「この道を走るときは、いつもエイリアンを見る」というと、ちょっとびっくりするでしょう。

「いつも犬にほえられる」なら、ありそうですけど。

エイリアンを毎日見ていたらコワイです。

djahandarie

Yeah, that's not what I'm trying to say either. I'm trying to say "when I used to run every day, one time I saw an alien."

Chocolate

ああ！それなら

「時」ではなく、「頃」というかも・・。

djahandarie

Hmmm.

Chocolate

「毎日走っていた頃、一度、エイリアンを見たことがある。」みたいな。

djahandarie

8:43 PM

Yes, that's certainly more natural, but I was trying to bang it into the same form that the rest of the sentences were using... but maybe that's not a good idea.

Chocolate

また、「走る」が「走っていた」になってしまった・・・

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