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4:47 AM
@ken Problem with finding japanese native speakers is that they also need to be fairly fluent in english as well.
but i do agree with you that having more native speakers would be good.
 
 
9 hours later…
1:18 PM
nemui desu ka?
 
1:30 PM
Not particularly. Was a few hours ago though. ;)
 
fighting off the deer in nara wore us out today
 
Ali
Whatup homies
no one around?
 
kinda
 
2:21 PM
どうも有難う御座いました is this in kanji?
@hippietrail what does nemui stand for?
 
@Madcowe: i meant tired or sleepy but my conversational japanese is what i learned to call "very terrible"
 
@Madcowe Yes, parts of it are in kanji and other parts are in hiragana.
 
2:36 PM
oh sorry i ignored the kanji part since i don't know so much
 
@rcjsuen ah, so I take it it is quite often to mix the different idiograms (?) right?
 
"domo XX u XX imashita"
if you're asking whether we can see the kanji you're typing yes i can see it on my computer
 
@hippietrail no, I was asking if it was common on the japanese language to mix kanji, hiragana and katakana on sentences and such
 
@Madcowe: not just common but usual
the three serve mostly different purposes
4
Q: What are the differences/characteristics between katakana, kanji and hiragana?

MadcoweI already know that romaji is the conversion from those to the roman alphabet, so which are the differences or characteristics between those? Are they used on a different context? Is one of them more formal than the others? Do they have something in common?

 
@Madcowe Mixing happens all the time in writing. When you're first learning the language then you're usually just going to see hiragana and some katakana.
 
2:52 PM
@rcjsuen I see, kanji is like the most advanced part of the language isnt it?
@hippietrail funny thing is that I posted that question :P
 
I don't know if "advanced" is the right word to use here.
If you mean "learn it last" then yes, I think most schools and textbooks teach kanji later.
 
ok then, thanks ;)
there are a lot of them to learn arent there?
 
kanji takes the most time and effort to learn for both japanese and foreigners
 
Yes, there are thousands of them. But if you know about 1000 should be good enough for most purposes.
 
1850 standard minimum unless that number's been changed again recently but in practice you need more to be proficient. chinese has many more that are rarely used in japanese these days
hehe perhaps subjective then (-:
 
2:56 PM
@hippietrail Well, my "good enough" might not be the same as your "good enough". :)
 
Pretty much depends on what you want to do..
 
my japanese is definitely not good enough to have a chat but for some reason i can mostly communicate
reading a newspaper is a common measure
 
@Madcowe The government defines about 2000 for general use. So you can adjust that number yourself based on how familiar with the language you wish to be.
http://search.japantimes.co.jp/cgi-bin/ek20091021mn.html
 
おはよう
って誰もいないかww
 
only people with busted IMEs here :)
 
3:09 PM
ah
 
え? たくさん人がいるじゃない?w
 
hm..
 
i don't like fighting with my ime when the browser is in full screen mode
 
i'm not aware of any issues of ime, which ones are you using?
I simply use alt + ` to switch back and forth
it's the default behavior on pretty much all Japanese operating systems
 
I don't have IME setup at work so I use something like Ajax IME or InputKing. ;o
 
3:14 PM
oic
 
I tried asking IT for an XP disk to install IME but they didn't have one or something. I forgot what the deal was.
 
my old netbook had japanese windows and japanese keyboard. my new one lacks the extra keys for switching romaja/hiragana/katakana modes
 
Japanese IMEs are actually relatively easy to deal with
Chinese IMEs are hard
good thing i almost never have to use them
 
korean is easy too but you never need hanja (-:
 
i heard you need to memorize the korean keyboard for that
i've seen it once
 
3:19 PM
I can read Chinese but can't type/write Chinese. :)
 
Good that I usually write Japanese by drawing with my hand..
 
man you dont want to deal with writing Chinese on the computer
it's literally a bitch
well if you are a programmer you have to write code comments in Japanese pretty much so drawing with a hand isn't a choice for some people lol
 
@KenLi Well, I have a tablet.. :P
 
unless you want to spent 70% of your time writing Japanese of course
 
It is a good training ^^
 
3:22 PM
ic
 
i find the ime pad doesn't recognize some of my handwritten characters but maybe those are the ones when i mess up the stroke order the worst
 
did you ever had to write documentation / code comments in Japanese btw?
@hippietrail I never had problems with ime pad before, are you using the microsoft one?
 
@hippietrail I have installed the Japanese hand writing recognition for Windows 7, so I don’t need to use the IME’s pad. I instead have a little window that floats above all windows, where I can write a whole line that gets recognized automatically.
@KenLi My Japanese isn’t good enough yet to even consider that ;)
 
lol if you work for a Japanese company you pretty much have no choice i think
 
Hehe, I guess so, but right now I’m just learning Japanese because of personal interest ^^
 
3:30 PM
ic
 
3:59 PM
oh sorry yes just using the ones that come with windows
oh what is that handwriting recognition for win 7 called?
 
Uhm, it’s built in.. As soon as you connect a pen-like device, you get that window.
You need Ultimate to install other languages than your Windows-language though.
 
oh i don't have a pen-like device. i have a tiny netbook suitable for taking hitchhiking around the world (-:
i have starter since it came with the netbook and i was saving my money for travelling rather than gadgets
 
Actually except from that language thing, Ultimate isn’t worth it :D
 
for german i could only think of two questions and one of them is hotter than hot. for japanese i had lots of questions but i can't think of any more now
 
 
1 hour later…
5:28 PM
hey people
 
 
2 hours later…
7:04 PM
'morning person
 
7:15 PM
evening actually :P
 
meh... 'morning in japan :)
I'll use that as my excuse
 
7:33 PM
haha I understand
 
 
2 hours later…
Ali
9:05 PM
still nobody home?
 
I’m here..
 
Ali
こんばんわーーーー
 
こんばんは、おひさしぶりですね。
 
Ali
まそんなに時間がたっていませんが
 
...my work computer apparently hates Unicode. That's going to make this room very confusing
 
Ali
9:09 PM
お仕事は何ですか?
Hi Michael
Unix and Linux, oh hells yeah
oh
I wanted to ask all you other devs something
Has anyone got mecab working?
I'm completely frikkin useless with character encoding, so if I punch out some japanese in a file in vim, save it and run mecab on it, the output is garbled.
 
@Ali No, can’t read that xD
 
Ali
I output to a file, try opening it in vim, and no matter how much I screw around with the encoding options it doesn't show.
 
@Ali I've never tried it. You could try asking on UL
 
Ali
Perhaps I need to do set some bash env variable or it has something to do with my terminal emulator
 
Can't say I have either. I guess you could try opening it in a browser first to see if it was even saved properly.
 
Ali
9:13 PM
Yeah I would have thought I need to ask a developer who's worked with Japanese before
 
My exposure to Japanese is actually pretty limited, I'm just lurking in here because I'm nosy
 
From what he said earlier it seemed like @KenLi might've done something with Japanese and code before.
 
@Ali 計算機科学の学生です。
 
Ali
@rcjsuen good thinking, tried it and it borked in firefox
oh god I feel like such a king, I think I can actually read that!
 
私はEclipseのプログラマーです。
 
Ali
9:16 PM
not quite
 
Did you try tweaking the encoding in the browser a bit? Like to UTF-8 or UTF-16, for example.
 
Ali
大学でJavaまたはEclipseの開発をしましたが、最近はPHPかrubyばかり使っています。
 
I'm guessing something like gedit or Kate would probably let you set the encoding in the file dialog.
 
Ali
Yeah mecab claims to out put in EUC-JP, and that's what I've set the character encoding to
gedit dies on the output, doesn't even let me open the file
 
How nice.
 
Ali
9:18 PM
I'll figure it out, just need to bang my head against it a little longer
 
by the way, a "ー" extendes the last vogal of the symbol right?
*extends
 
Ali
also, there's a ruby gem that wraps the c library that seems to just work magically
yeah in katakana
except in らーめん when it's written in hiragana
I should ask that
 
@Madcowe I presume you mean vowel?
 
@Madcowe (You can edit chat posts, btw. There's a little menu if you mouse-over a message)
 
Ali
I have no idea why ラーメン is written hiragana so often
 
9:19 PM
yes I know, but I think I got lazy x)
sorry
 
@poke 何年生ですか?
 
Ali
Also, I learned this recently, you can make any katakana small by typing an x before it with, that's how you do all the magic katakana for which there are no hiragana equivalents.
2
 
@Ali 39
 
Ali
huh?
 
Very nice tip. Didn't know you can auto "lowercase" like that.
聞いたことないですか、39?「サンキュ」です。 "Thank you"
 
Ali
9:22 PM
You need to if you wanna パティー
 
@rcjsuen 6th 学期 (no idea which counting word I have to use there :o)
Also, you guy make me look up words a lot! xD
 
Yes, that's one of the words where I always get annoyed with.
That ィ
 
Ali
yeah, just type a little x before, just works
also
 
@poke Perhaps when I type in Japanese I should also put in my disclaimer-not-a-native-speaker TL after it. :)
 
Ali
this one wound me up, in your IME you can just hit F7 to instantly katakanify something
not sure if that's news but I find it really useful
 
9:24 PM
There's also F8 for the "compressed" thing.
 
Ali
yeah the half-width chars, any idea what those are for?
they look dog ugly
 
I've seen them online but don't know what they're for.
 
Ali
計算機科学って何ですか? Sounds something like statistical science? Calculated science? I'm probably miles off.
calculator studies?
 
Comp Sci?
 
Ali
Egg on face
I have a compsci degree, I should really know that one
 
9:30 PM
Not exactly the most intuitive translation based on the kanji.
 
Ali
calculating machine science
nah kinda makes sense, no ones studied calculators in this century at least
 
I'm heading out ノシ
 
Ali
またね
 
計算機科学 is in my dictionary as “computer science”.. Although I usually write “computer-gaku” in katakana, but I didn’t remember how to katakana-fy it correctly, so I just looked it up and found those kanjis instead :P
 
Ali
6 years?
dude that's a long time
 
9:33 PM
semesters
 
Ali
oh right, my bad!
 
so 3 years
:)
 
Ali
ah so you're nearly done
I barely passed my exams at uni, spent all my time plotting on how to get to Japan, getting drunk and chasing Japanese girls
5
 
Yeah, I’m about to start my bachelor thesis.. But I’m going for master directly after it too.
lol xD
 
Ali
good luck with that ;)
 
9:35 PM
Thanks :D
 
Ali
What's your thesis about?
or is it a secret?
 
@Ali lol
 
Ali
Oh man you didn't have to star that :P !
 
I don’t have the full topic yet, but it is basically about the OCCI standard for cloud computing.
@Ali Good idea, *starring*
 
@Ali of course I had hahaha
 
9:36 PM
Part of the issue is that the terms aren't standard internationally, even other the english speaking world hasn't settled on the relative meanings of "computer science", "computer engineering", "software engineering", and "information systems"
replace "computer" with "computational" and you get a few more
 
Ali
Yeah you see that a) actually sounds interesting and b) might actually contribute something
I did a shitty little plugin for Eclipse that barely worked. The only thing it succeeded in doing is immunize me against Java for the rest of my natural life.
 
情報科学 is the term for "Information Systems" (a programming degree) at a Japanese university I briefly attended
 
:D
 
Ali
Do they have the same IS/CS distinction in Japan?
jesus two stars for that? wtf guys :P
 
 
2 hours later…
11:43 PM
oyasumi nasai
did I get it right? x)
 
11:53 PM
@Madcowe yep ^^ Although I would leave the space out ;)
 

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