deutschsprachiger Raum

Astrum

06:53

A long cylindrical shell of radius $R$ carries a uniform surface charge $\sigma _0 $ on the upper half and an opposite charge on the lower half. Find the electric potential inside and outside the cylinder

oh joy

Astrum

07:10

@NevikRehnel what's the word for a physical position? "I was in a sitting position"?

dict.leo.org/#/…

Haltung?

@NevikRehnel fgafbhhjjh JRYKSKAQW AFHRKASKA

Nevik Rehnel

Haltung/Körperhaltung, yes

Stellung might also work, depending on context (it's mostly used when lying, etc)

Astrum

I checked Stellung out, and it seemed to be refering more to a work position or something

Nevik Rehnel

that as well

Takkat

usually we just use the adjective without nouns... ich sitze, der Kasten steht aufrecht, wir liegen krumm, ...

The noun comes in when the position is not defined: Nimm Haltung ein - In welcher Stellung befinden wir uns?, or in composites such as Sitzhaltung, Liegeposition, ...

sitzende Haltung is awkward.

Gute Morgenstellung allerseits ;)

Nevik Rehnel

moin @Takkat :D

Astrum

07:20

My phone says something like this: Zum Entsperren über den Bildschirm streichen

what's up with "Zum Entsperren"? I would have thought something like "Streichen über den Bildschirm, zu entsperren" (I hope that makes sense)

@Takkat greetings

Takkat

argh - diese Smartphonebewegungen sind immer arg seltsam übersetzt.

Astrum

so it is a weird way to say it?

Takkat

Ich warte noch auf: "Streicheln sie Ihr Telefon zärtlich, damit es anfängt zu vibrieren" :D

Nevik Rehnel

@Astrum both are equivalent (except that you have an extraneous comma in yours)

Astrum

ah, I thought the comma was needed

so is the way my phone says it a little odd, or is it more idiomatic than mine?

Takkat

07:22

@Astrum your sentence would need ", um ihn zu entsperren"

Wischen ist ein häufig benutzter Begriff

Astrum

but I thought the subject was implied here

Nevik Rehnel

@Takkat that's nonsense

Takkat

Zum Entsperren is the dative object, den Bildschirm the accusative object in the original message but for a complete sentence a subject is missing.

Nevik Rehnel

ther object is clearly there

oh damn

i augmented too much in my mind

@Astrum get your act together man, stop using half sentences

Takkat

~~Streichen~~ Wischen entsperrt den Bildschirm. <-- proper sentence

Nevik Rehnel

07:27

but wouldnt be used in this case because it's not an instruction

Astrum

but... why does it need to be a full sentence?

Takkat

Because.

Nevik Rehnel

@Astrum it doesnt need to be a full sentence, it just needs to be grammatically correct

Astrum

so...

Takkat

No reason, really. Telegrammstil does not need any grammar.

Astrum

07:28

ok, I think I get it

Nevik Rehnel

@Astrum btw "swipe the screen to unlock" is a full sentence

the difference is that you dont need the pronoun for an imperative in english

and you only need it in german for the polite address

Astrum

alright, so back to the original sentence

Takkat

Das Fuchteln am Bildschirm lässt das Handy frieren.

Astrum

the way I read it literally is "swipe over the screen to the unlocking"

that's confusing

Takkat

--> to do the unlocking

Astrum

07:31

I didn't see any word for "to do" in there

Nevik Rehnel

"For the unlocking, swipe the screen"

the problem is that you dont usually use the nominalized participle like this in english

Takkat

Wir haben halt kein present continuous

Nevik Rehnel

indeed

Astrum

since when does "zu" mean "for? I'm allll confused now

Takkat

To unlock swipe the screen

Astrum

07:33

but that would make "unlock" a verb

Takkat

Entsperre den Schirm durch Wischen

Astrum

I understand it, but I can't make it make any grammatical sense in my head

Nevik Rehnel

4 mins ago, by Nevik Rehnel

the problem is that you dont usually use the nominalized participle like this in english

explains why you cant

there IS no equivalent form in english

Astrum

I can't find anything about it through google, either

Takkat

<-- believes the human brain is not made for grammar rules

Grammar rules were invented after people talked. Not vice versa.

5

Imagine a coding language with a syntax close to spoken languages... Chaos. Fraktal apps.

Astrum

07:39

isn't that the truth

is there a fancier way to make "X [verb], dass ......" sentences?

Takkat

If my_conditions are sort of true
    then think over
        what you_did
    before
smile

Astrum

I feel as though this is a simplified way of writing/speaking

Takkat

@Astrum we can do that with nominalisation of verbs.

Nevik Rehnel

with lots of genitives!

oh, the snobbiness!

Takkat

Rettet den Genitiv!

Astrum

07:44

is there a stereotype attached to this?

Takkat

Des Hundes Haare sind der Hausfrau Feind.

Nevik Rehnel

Des Menschen Wolf ist der Mensch.

Astrum

The wolf of man is the man?

Nevik Rehnel

@Astrum no stereotype. higher language registers use more nominalizations and more genitives

Takkat

Man's wolf is man.

Nevik Rehnel

07:45

@Astrum yes. "Homo homine lupus."

@Takkat dont you mean "wolf"?

Takkat

had it 1/2 plural

Nevik Rehnel

lol

Astrum

Wouldn't "the wolf of man" be a better translation?

Nevik Rehnel

hoof, hooves --> roof, rooves?

Astrum

hmmmm

lol, roofuckers

Nevik Rehnel

07:46

@Astrum "To man, man is a wolf." would be more accurate imo

Takkat

@Astrum no genitive :(

Astrum

buttcheeks

Nevik Rehnel

there's not dative in english, so you cant accurately translate the latin

Takkat

Dem Mensch sein Wolf ist der Mensch -- this would be modern replacement of genitive case

Astrum

@NevikRehnel you went to Oz, right? Surely you heard that from Kiwis?

Nevik Rehnel

07:47

the proper translation into German is "Der Mensch ist dem Mensch ein Wolf."

@Astrum heard what from them

Astrum

the kiwis call them roof-uckers

roo-%#%ers

kangaroo

roo

... I thought it was pretty funny, actually

Nevik Rehnel

no, i have not heard that

maybe i didnt hang out with people as vulgar as you :P

Astrum

from my experience, Australians are mighty vulgar, and they drink a ton

the two go hand in hand, I guess

I can never figure out if the kiwis really hate the aussies, or they're just screwing around

@NevikRehnel how about sneaky nuts, ever seen him?

Nevik Rehnel

no

Astrum

I probably shouldn't link it here because it's not PG-13, but you can find it on YT with the title sneaky nuts angry boys

Nevik Rehnel

07:51

anyway, i gotta head to work

Astrum

hokay

have fun

Nevik Rehnel

later boys

Astrum

waves

o/

-----?
----/
-o/

a man with a hook hand

Takkat

O_.

take my cookie

Astrum

@Takkat that looks like a swollen eye, you might want to get that checked out

Takkat

08:01

,'.

all eyes and nose closed.

Astrum

...?

Takkat

|

^^Germany's Next Top Model.

Astrum

ew, stick figures

Takkat

Heidi Klum's TV show with pretty girls so slim you can't see them without stretching your screen horizontally.

Astrum

I thought she was American

Takkat

08:05

does more harm to my daughter than any X-rated stuff.

@Astrum No she only lives there.

Astrum

eh, I don't pay attention to that trash

skinny is not sexy

Takkat

you don't but my daughter does... how I hate those shows.

Astrum

how old is she?

Takkat

She's 9 - that's exactly when they start defining their bodies from beauty.

Astrum

assuming she's hetero, ask her is she likes skinny guys (my guess is she doesn't)

oh dayum

O.o

isn't nine a bit young for this?

Takkat

08:08

Not nowadays... she's looking after boys already.

Astrum

that's pretty weird...

I remember back in the day, that stuff didn't really start until maybe 12-13

that was like... 7 years ago

I'm getting old

Takkat

Frag' mich erst! ;)

Astrum

look at the bright side, Germany has lower teen pregnancy than the US

Takkat

Bei uns ging das aber auch so mit 13 los.

Astrum

I guess it's pretty much the same, then (was)

Takkat

08:10

@Astrum wir dürfen mit unseren Kindern über diese Dinge reden.

Astrum

12-13 was really when most kids started showing interest

sex?

true sex ed (protection etc.) doesn't start until 8th grade in the US

Takkat

Wie bringt der Klapperstorch die Kinder, und warum haben Bienen kein Glück darin.

Astrum

well, in my state, at least

in a lot of other states, they don't even have sex ed

Klapperstorch?

Takkat

Wir haben derzeit eine Riesendiskussion über einen geänderten Aufklärungsunterricht in den Schulen.

@Astrum de.wiktionary.org/wiki/Klapperstorch

They bring the kids.

Astrum

haha, the stork

I heard a quote once about having kids

"Have a son - worry about one dick, have a daughter and worry about them all"

I'm so glad I don't have kids

I was pretty well behaved as a kid (I think)

Takkat

08:18

Es gibt keine wohlerzogenen Kinder.

Die tun nur so.

Astrum

perhaps not

but I could have been sent to jail or something...

so I figure I turned out alright

Takkat

Wenn du meine Kinder untereinander reden hörst, verlierst du den Glauben an PG-13.

Astrum

haha

Takkat

Immerhin halten sie mittlerweile den Schnabel, wenn Erwachsene dabei sind (PG-64)

Astrum

you use a lot of adverbs I haven't seen before

will you still need me, when I'm 64

Takkat

08:31

@Astrum in case you need a translation, tell me... they are common colloquial

Astrum

I think I understand them, I've just never come across them before

Takkat

Na, dann lernst du ja was!

Astrum

I really think I'm ready for a book like Im Westen nichts Neues

Takkat

go for it

Astrum

you've read it?

well, let me get your opinion on something, either way

dw.de/05032014-langsam-gesprochene-nachrichten/a-17476628

Takkat

08:33

Nein, ich kann ja nicht alles lesen ;)

@Astrum that's a cool link!

should go to our "resources" question.

Astrum

this is what I'm reading (I'm still slow with listening), and this is a bit too easy for me. It's not that there aren't words/phrases I don't understand, but that there aren't enough of them for me to really learn new words quickly

sure, the entire Deutsche Welle should be added there, they've got a bunch of stuff

so, do you think that book will be a decent level for me?

or a book in general

Takkat

@Astrum you will find out by reading.

When I read "The Lord of the Rings" I thought I will never get it finished.

But over time I improved, and managed all three books.

17 I was then.

Astrum

how much English did you know at the beginning?

Takkat

It was 7 years of English at school.

But there it was not really taught practically useful.

Astrum

if your courses are anything like our "language" courses, you didn't learn much in it

Takkat

08:39

We didn't.

Astrum

yeah, ours are BS

you have to take 2 years of a language, and nobody learns anything

Takkat

One thing I realized was that we should not look up words we don't know when reading but just go on with the story. Understanding will come by itself then.

Astrum

you think so?

Takkat

it was so with me.

Astrum

hmmm

that might work with common words, but if it doesn't show up again, I'd imagine you'd forget it

Takkat

08:42

It does not matter if we can't understand each and every sentence but we still enjoy the story.

Only if a word popped up on each and every page I eventually felt like I wanted to know what it means.

Some words can be guessed from context.

Astrum

that's true

Takkat

This will lead to understanding but not to being able to translate.

Only then language works at it is supposed to.

Create images in your brain - not create translations.

Astrum

that's probably the right way to do it, but not the quick way

I'm pressed for time here

I've got about 7 months

Takkat

if you do it with reading and watching movies it is not quick but it is fun

But the books your read or the movies you watch must be interesting to you.

Astrum

sure

but still

it's slooooow

I still want to watch Das Leben der Anderer

Takkat

08:48

You get faster by doing so. (well movies may not work that well)

Astrum

Books, certainly

I'm convinced there's a faster way than what I've been doing, though

I bet it's possible to be fluent in a language in 2 months of total immersion

Takkat

Moving home to Germany is the fastest.

Astrum

maybe not fluent, but certainly good enough for most things

Takkat

Yeah, total immersion. Stop talking English.

Astrum

I know, I suppose if I go through with Wien, I'll get a ton of practice in a short period of time

OregonGhost

08:53

Moin zusammen :)

Astrum

English....

@OregonGhost greetings

Takkat

Aber du wirst dort Wienerisch lernen.

Huhu @OregonGhost

OregonGhost

Wiener sind auch ein spezielles Völkchen.

Astrum

@Takkat I was under the impression that they're kind to foreigners, and they'll speak normal people German

Takkat

Ich würde Wienerisch nicht als "normal" bezeichnen wollen... ducks away

Astrum

08:57

no, but don't they speak Hochdeutsch too?

Takkat

They try to.

OregonGhost

Und das aus dem Munde eines Schwaben ;)

Astrum

so I'd have an English + Wienerisch accent

awesome

do you guys tell the difference between an American accent and British one in German?

there probably is not an appreciable one

OregonGhost

That is totally beaten by a French and a Spanish coworker (at a customer), both living in Austria and therefore with Austrian accent, and then talking English to each other. Awesome!

Takkat

@Astrum klar, den Unterschied hören wir sofort

OregonGhost

08:59

Ohja, sofort.

Ich bin mal beim Standup.

Astrum

really?!

well, do tell

Astrum

09:16

Vossische Zeitung - what does "Vossische" mean? I search wiktionary and leo - nothing came up

Takkat

> Nachdem Johann Andreas Rüdiger 1751 ohne männlichen Erben gestorben war, übernahm sein Schwiegersohn, der Buchhändler Christian Friedrich Voß die Zeitung.

(de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vossische_Zeitung)

Astrum

oh, so it's from a name

boring

Takkat

People in Berlin then named it "Tante Voß", or "Vossische Zeitung".

very boring-

Astrum

Rufmordkampagne - leo gives me the translation ratf^#@ing @.@

is it vulgar?

Ratfucking

Ratfucking is an American slang term for political sabotage or dirty tricks. It was first brought to public attention by Bob Woodward and Carl Bernstein in their book All the President's Men. Background Woodward and Bernstein's exposé All the President's Men reports that many staffers who had attended the University of Southern California such as Donald Segretti, Tim Elbourne, Ronald Louis Ziegler, H. R. Haldeman and Dwight Chapin had participated in the highly-competitive student elections there. UPI reporter Karlyn Barker sent Woodward and Bernstein a memo "Notes On the USC Crowd" that...

TIL

I've never heard of this word in my life

Takkat

@Astrum nein "Rufmord" ist nicht schön, aber das Wort ist keinefalls vulgär.

LEO might have come across this by translating from English to German, then it had it in their database.

Astrum

09:27

I think it's time for a snack

Takkat

Oh btw. in Vienna whenever you hear a composite ending with -rat it has nothing to do with rodents!

OregonGhost

Hast du mal ein Beispiel für ein Wiener Wort mit -rat?

Takkat

> Der Reichshofrat war neben dem Reichskammergericht und in Konkurrenz zu diesem eines der beiden höchsten Gerichte im Heiligen Römischen Reich Deutscher Nation.

OregonGhost

Ach so, in dem Zusammenhang. Ja, gut, hier gibt es auch einen Stadtrat ;)

Es gibt natürlich auch ein Stadtrad...

... und ein Stattauto...

... sehr schöne Kombination.

Takkat

Das ist der Unterschied zwischen Räten und Ratten.

Manchmal kaum einer.

Astrum

10:14

Obama visited the university I went to, 10 minute drive away

I feel special

Wie Hemingway benutzt Remarque den Begriff der „verlorenen Generation“ für die jungen Männer, die aufgrund ihrer in jungen Jahren erfahrenen Kriegstraumata nach dem Krieg große Mühe haben, im zivilen Leben wieder Fuß zu fassen.

@Takkat @OregonGhost I'm a bit confused with this sentence

OregonGhost

Warum? Das ist doch ein hervorragender Satz ;)

Astrum

@OregonGhost maybe that's the problem

Well... let me first tell you what I think it means, and after I need to ask some "why" questions

"Like Hemingway used Remarque as a concept of "the lost generation" for the young men which because of their early exerience with PTSD after the war..."

I really don

I really don't understand it

I need some help to break it down

Takkat

10:34

Remarque schreibt wie Hemingway. Junge Männer erleiden im Krieg ein Trauma. Danach haben sie es schwer im zivilen Leben. Das wird "verlorene Generation" genannt.

^^ broken down

Astrum

@Takkat thanks, so now I just need to understand the grammar...

Takkat

...subordinate clauses without end.

Astrum

so, let's start with the first sentence...

Wie Hemingway benutzt Remarque den Begriff der „verlorenen Generation“ für die jungen Männer

Hemingway, like Remarque, used the concept of "the lost generation" for young men - good?

Takkat

good.

Astrum

ok, next sentence

part*

Hemingway, like Remarque, used the concept of "the lost generation" for young men who have experienced great difficulty with PTSD after the war, and who have had difficulty rejoining civilian life

liberal translation, I guess...

Takkat

10:41

very good.

Astrum

Wie Hemingway benutzt Remarque den Begriff der „verlorenen Generation“ für die jungen Männer, die aufgrund ihrer in jungen Jahren erfahrenen Kriegstraumata nach dem Krieg große Mühe haben, im zivilen Leben wieder Fuß zu fassen.

Takkat

to experience

Astrum

why is the verb not right after the comma?

what I mean is, why is it not "..., die erfahrenen...."?

Takkat

it's used as an adjective to Kriegstrauma

Astrum

oh

I guessing " jungen Jahren" is a good fit for "youth"?

Takkat

10:44

in their youth

Astrum

these higher level sentences are confusing

thanks for the help

bed time now

Takkat

good night @Astrum

Astrum

see ya!

Vogel612

12:50

Hey @Takkat, hast du schon den Knatsch hier gesehen?

Takkat

@Vogel612 nein, denn ich habe gerade viel echte Arbeit um den Kopf... werde das mal lesen.

@Vogel612 ach du je, da hagelt es nur so an Mißverständnissen... Kann man denn nicht einfach eine Frage generieren, in der nur eine Frage steht, aber in der alle Antworten möglich sind? So etwas wie: Wie benutze ich "tut mir leid"

Vogel612

Das wäre ja viel zu offen formuliert..

eher 3 Fragen:

Takkat

na dann kommt wieder jemand und schreit DUPE...

Vogel612

1) ist "tut mir leid" audrucksstärker als "Entschuldigung"

2) Kann man auf "Tut mir leid", nichts zu entschuldigen antworten

3) Kann man "tut mir leid" sagen, selbst wenn man nicht schuld ist

und wenn da noch jemand DUPE Schreit, soll er herkommen und sich hier beschweren...

Takkat

und was machen wir mit den beiden Antworten....?

Vogel612

12:59

du kannst die, zumindest soweit ich weiß rumschieben...

die von PMF ist ja sowieso nur für 3.

Takkat

Ich kann nur alles zu einer Dupe Mutterfrage mergen..

Vogel612

und die von DisplayName ist für 1)/2)

hmm.. das ist natürlich doof...

Takkat

eben... am Besten wäre, man kann eine Frage daraus machen... z.B. worin unterscheiden sich "tut mir leid" und "Entschuldigung" im Sprachgebrauch.

Dann ist alles drin, und zu broad auch nicht.

Vogel612

ich habe jetzt schon "too broad" gevotet...

Takkat

Erst Edit, dann Vote ;)

Du kannst aber dein Vote zurücknehmen, nachdem du die Frage editiert hast.

Nur kannst du dann nicht mehr close-voten, wenn jemand ein rollback anstößt.

Vogel612

13:05

Ich glaub ich lass den Vote erstmal "liegen"

ich hätte die Frage sowieso gerne aufgeteilt....

Takkat

ich bin mir fast sicher, c.p. auch, aber jetzt ist das schwieriger.

Wenn ich jetzt wieder nur den Titel ändere, aber den Body lasse, kriege ich wieder ein Rumgemoser zu hören...

Vogel612

@Takkat das wäre aber auch faul...

Takkat

Faulheit ist die Wurzel der Intelligenz!

Vogel612

stimmt auch wieder..

aber hey: german.stackexchange.com/posts/10815/revisions

schon wieder geändert..

das artet ja echt in Edit-wars aus..

Takkat

... scheint so... aber jetzt scheinen alle soweit zufrieden.

Transcript for

deutschsprachiger Raum