deutschsprachiger Raum

Astrum

01:25

@NevikRehnel I hope you're ready to get your tool kit out, I have another trainwreck coming your way =D

thekeyofgb

calls mechanic

or should I say

ruft Mechaniker an

Nevik Rehnel

06:45

@Astrum i'm always ready :P

shakthi

07:10

Guten Tag!

Nevik Rehnel

Moin @shakthi

Takkat

Hallo zusammen :)

Nevik Rehnel

moin @Takkat :D

shakthi

Moin alle ;)

Kashi

heyho

Takkat

07:18

ich mag, ich mochte, ich habe gemocht, ich werde mögen, ich werde gemocht haben, ich hätte gemocht haben sollen, ...

...da ist kein Konjunktiv II ;)

shakthi

I fail the pronounciation lessons in german :( I make 30 attepts at 'isst' and cant get it right.

Takkat

@shakthi like "east" with a short e ...

Nevik Rehnel

@Takkat warum hast du einfach "ich würde mögen" ausgelassen? D

Takkat

Es geht mir um ich möchte...

Nevik Rehnel

welches mit ich mag synonym ist

zumindest bei mir

Vogel612

07:20

moin @ all

Takkat

Es wurde behauptet "ich möchte" sei kein Konjunktiv!

Nevik Rehnel

@Takkat ferner wäre das der Konjunktiv I, nicht II

die IIer sind die mit dem würde ;)

sozusagen die würdevollen

Takkat

@NevikRehnel ich möge mich kaum irren. --> I

Du mögest hier nachschauen: canoo.net/inflection/m%C3%B6gen:V:haben

Aber ich bin da auch immer konfus.

Und musste das erstmal nachschauen... ;)

shakthi

@Takkat yeah i tried a lot. rosetta expects learners to pronounce the same way like the teacher, little variations leads to fail.

Nevik Rehnel

@Takkat die Tabelle halte ich für veraltet :D

wie erwähnt wird m.E. mögen und möchten heutzutage synonym verwendet

zumindest von allen außer Sprachwissenschaftlern

Vogel612

07:28

alternativ kann man ja immer noch "ich will" sagen

Takkat

@NevikRehnel "möchten" ist kein Verb.... ich möchte, ich möchtete, ich habe gemöchtet??? <-- geht gar nicht!

@Vogel612 Man könnte, wenn man wollte. :)

So man nicht will, kann man auch sagen Ich mag nicht! (ganz ohne möchte).

Nur bei "Ich mag dich!" sollte man kein möchte nehmen, um Missverständnissen vorzubeugen :P

Nevik Rehnel

@Takkat ich möchte, ich mochte, ich habe gemocht

wird zumindest ugs. genau so verwendet

Vogel612

@Takkat Es sei denn man möchte möchten...

Nevik Rehnel

wobei die verwirrung verstärkt wird durch die tatsache, das gemocht ja die tatsächliche vergangenheit des tatsächlichen mögen ist :D

Takkat

Wer nicht gemocht werden will, mag noch so mögen, er will es nicht.

jaha "mögen" heißt das Verb!!!

Vogel612

07:35

@takkat wat?

Nevik Rehnel

Et ceterum puto, Carthaginem esse delendam.

Takkat

mögen und nicht möchten, meine ich.

Vogel612

[] -> ()
^ |
| v
() <- []

Takkat

Quatsch war das.

Nevik Rehnel

@Vogel612 {} + []

Vogel612

07:37

verflucht

leerzeichen fast alle geklaut.

Nevik Rehnel

es leben das whitespace-ignorierende rendering :D

shakthi

A good Deutsch vocabulary list with english meaning is here ocr.org.uk/Images/68532-vocabulary-list-by-topic.pdf

Vogel612

@nevik problem ist, secure space wird escaped..

Nevik Rehnel

@shakthi i find the french words surprisingly irritating

@Vogel612 s/escaped/zensiert/

I furthermore want to point out that I think @Astrum is full of hot air and has not delivered the train wreck I was promised.

Vogel612

@takkat es nennt sich brainfuck... und quatsch ist es auf jeden fall...

shakthi

07:41

@NevikRehnel aww is it ? i dont know french either. :(

Nevik Rehnel

@shakthi no, the list you pointed out is DE-EN

Takkat

habe ich schon mal erwähnt. dass ich ein Grammatikhasser bin?

Nevik Rehnel

but on the page before the list starts, there are some very noticably french words

@Takkat bei jeder gelegenheit :P

Takkat

;)

shakthi

:D

Astrum

08:02

lol

@NevikRehnel I'm just touching it up a bit

Nevik Rehnel

@Astrum that sounds.... ambiguous

though I might just spend too much time on the internet

Astrum

I'm online more than you, don't feel too bad

Vogel612

@Astrum i would not be so sure about that..

Astrum

I'm just giving you a fair warning, I went outside my comfort zone here, and it might be too much to tackle in one session....

Tying to write about renewable energy in German was not easy

Nevik Rehnel

@Astrum I doubt that

Astrum

08:11

@Vogel612 I'm online for like... 9 hours day

Vogel612

wow... that was reaaally ambiguous before you added the second sentence..

Astrum

oh jeez

shakthi

@Astrum Thats it ?

Astrum

you dirty Germans

Vogel612

@Astrum poor you.. 11-13 hrs. daily..

Astrum

08:11

@.@

Vogel612

gotta sleep and eat sometimes..

Nevik Rehnel

indeed

Astrum

impressive

if I got a mechanical keyboard, I'd spend more time here as well

Nevik Rehnel

lol

Astrum

plus a screen that was easier on my eyes

Nevik Rehnel

08:12

excuses

Vogel612

well i am kinda working online, soo you can actually subtract 3-5 hrs. daily for real working time..

Nevik Rehnel

true denizens do not let mere hardware hinder them

shakthi

15 hours online on mobile, nearly 13 hours on Laptop. I thought it was less.

Vogel612

@shakti mobile is not counted here...

Nevik Rehnel

TIL: @shakthi is online 28 hours a day

shakthi

08:13

LoL

Vogel612

IndexOutOfBoundsException: the day has 24 hrs. only..

Nevik Rehnel

@Astrum btw still waiting :D

Astrum

@NevikRehnel one sec

shakthi

@Vogel612 If the day is static. If its not, its expandable :P

Nevik Rehnel

tic

one sec has passed

Vogel612

08:14

CHOOO CHOOOOOO

Nevik Rehnel

mother-- *PG-13'd*

Astrum

@NevikRehnel before I post my text of shame, I'd like to ask you how one would say "to leave the computer on"

Nevik Rehnel

nice, escaping asterisks actually works

@Astrum very literally, "den Computer an[geschaltet] lassen."

Vogel612

@Nevik you only need to escape the first though (afaik)

Nevik Rehnel

@Vogel612 yes. that's what i did

Astrum

08:16

I thought it would be den Computer einschalten lassen

Vogel612

they just get parsed in direct contact with text so you can alternatively * leave a whitespace in between *

Kashi

seufz Telefondienst ... die Erfüllung meiner kühnsten Träume

Nevik Rehnel

@Astrum that would be "let the computer switch sth. on" haha

@Vogel612 whitespace is for the weak

Vogel612

no. have the computer switched on would also be a valid translation

Nevik Rehnel

oh yes, that as well

Vogel612

08:17

see following question: german.stackexchange.com/questions/7241/…

Nevik Rehnel

@Vogel612 i just didnt consider computer as the object in that snippet :D

Astrum

so - warum ließt du den Computer an?

Nevik Rehnel

@Astrum yup

Vogel612

well I wrote the answer.. and usually the computer does not switch on that many things..

Astrum

cool

ok, time for the post

Nevik Rehnel

08:19

@Vogel612 gotta read more fantasy!

Vogel612

ahhh. i'd prefer "warum hast du den Computer angelassen" though..

Astrum

Ich habe mit mein Freund über Erneuerbare Energie diskutiert. Er denkt dass, es möglich ist, nur Erneuerbare Energie zu benutzen. Ich liefert die Sonnenenergie und ich habe entscheide mich. Sonnenenergie kann nicht genug Energie liefert.

Der Weltenergiebedarf ist rund 1.43 X 10^14 Kilowattstunden. Das ist ein Menge Energie! Die Sonne strahlt viele Energie zu die Erde, tatsächlich, ist 4.2 Kilowattstunden pro Meter (Erdoberfläche) pro Tag. Der Weltenergiebedarf pro Tag ist (1.43 X 10^14)/(365) = 3.92 X 10^11 Kilowattstunden. Wenn die Wirksamkeit von der typisch Solarkollektor rund 15% ist,…

Vogel612

@Nevik lolwhy??

Nevik Rehnel

@Vogel612 ugs vs hochsprache :P

Astrum

I think the numbers are the only thing I got right =D

Vogel612

08:19

mit meinem*

and that second sentence is wrong on so many levekls..

Nevik Rehnel

e*rneuerbare (no caps)

it's not @Vogel612

it just has a comma too many

oh wait

it's just misplaced

Astrum

I think I might use too many commas

Nevik Rehnel

nah, you good

Vogel612

ohhh.. missed a fullstop... i meant the third..

Astrum

I need to figure out how to write more efficiently

Vogel612

08:21

~~liefert~~ liefern (you use infinitive here)

Nevik Rehnel

yeah the third sentence doesnt make sense

discussing such a huge snippet here is annoying though

it gets pushed out of scope

Vogel612

Erde is femininum, but strahlen zu requires dative..

--> ~~zu der~~ zur Erde

Astrum

Hm

is there another way?

Vogel612

sentence by sentence..

and the third please with an original english one..

can't star that much text ;)

Nevik Rehnel

well, giving the whole snippet first is good, so we can get the context. but for discussion it's easier to get one at a time

Astrum

08:23

Ich liefert die Sonnenenergie und ich habe entscheide mich = I researched solar energy, and I have come to a conclusion

the numbers are right, I didn't pick them out of my ass

Nevik Rehnel

now i wanna know how you found "liefern" for research

Astrum

wiktionary !

Vogel612

lolwut??

Nevik Rehnel

@Astrum the numbers are irrelevant to the translation though :P

Astrum

en.wiktionary.org/wiki/liefern

Nevik Rehnel

08:24

arg

that's why you should look at examples

Astrum

sure, but there's valuable information there, it shows that solar isn't all that practical

I couldn't find any

Nevik Rehnel

"Informationen liefern" means "provide information"

Astrum

oh, haha

ok, that was a dumb mistake

Nevik Rehnel

yes, i can see it spectacularly lacks examples :(

Vogel612

the wiktionary entry for research actually gives the perfect translation:

de.wiktionary.org/wiki/research

Nevik Rehnel

08:25

@Astrum why did you look it up that way anyway. why not look at research instead

Astrum

sometimes it has them, most of the time not. It's why I only add words that I come across in reading (usually)

because I had thought I knew what the word meant

and didn't need to look it up =/

Nevik Rehnel

ha

@Vogel612 that's lacking the verb though

Astrum

I know the noun for research, yeah

that should have been a red flag for me

-_-

Nevik Rehnel

@Astrum the verb research isn't easy to translate because it depends on context

Vogel612

de.wiktionary.org/wiki/Forschung @Nevik schau mal in die herkunft

Nevik Rehnel

08:27

in this case, the german recherchieren is appropriate

Astrum

looks liek the verb rechnen

Vogel612

untersuchen (investigate)is also fitting though.

Nevik Rehnel

@Vogel612 ich meine den research artikel

da wird komplett ignoriert, dass research auch das verb ist

Vogel612

ja... wiktionary... ziemlich schlecht eigentlich :(

Nevik Rehnel

@Astrum recherchieren (derived from french) has the same roots as research in english

the word just took a detour to come to german, haha

@Vogel612 nur das deutsche

das englische wikt is wesentlich vollständiger

@Astrum back to your sentence. the second part, "[i] have come to a conclusion" sounds a bit weird, even in english

Vogel612

08:30

wiktionary, y u no link to english wiktionary when asked an english word??

Nevik Rehnel

@Vogel612 ?

Astrum

@NevikRehnel not really, it sounds like somebody making a declaration "I have come to a conclusion!", or in a formal setting it could be like "the panel has come to the conclusion that..."

Nevik Rehnel

@Astrum i think you'd usually say "[i] have come to the following conclusion", or something like "[i] have found the following:"

@Astrum making that anouncement sounds awfully childish to me D:

(and last time i checked, you are not a panel :P)

Astrum

er, no, it's nothing that would make anybody raise an eyebrow

sure, it was an example

Nevik Rehnel

well, literally, "I have come to a conclusion" is "Ich bin zu einem Schluss/zu einer Schlussfolgerung gekommen."

Astrum

08:34

forum.wordreference.com/showthread.php?t=1436497

Nevik Rehnel

but i still think that the indetermined article in that sentence is weird

@Astrum it's not about the word conclusion :P it's about the stuff around it

"I have come to a conclusion!" really sounds like you're super proud to announce you finally managed to make a decision

after like deliberating for 2 years

Astrum

Hm, I don't really think it sounds weird, but if I was writing it in English, to stay in English, I would have probably written the entire thing differently.

Yes, the "!" is supposed to have that effect

Nevik Rehnel

my point is, since your actual conclusion follows right after, you should just introduce it as such

Astrum

but as it stands, eh, not that weird, it's certainly not the most eloquent way it could be written though, that's for sure.

Nevik Rehnel

i.e. "I have come to the conclusion:" or "the following" or whatever

im probably spoiled by all the papers ive had to read lately :<

where there is abundance of conclusions and "following"s

anyway

Astrum

08:38

maybe, because I really don't think it's that weird! You wouldn't write this in a formal piece, but as something written to a friend, it sounds fine.

Nevik Rehnel

let's get on with this cause ive got other stuff to do :o

Astrum

alrighty

Nevik Rehnel

did you catch the complete version of this third sentence?

Astrum

you mean Ich bin zu einem Schluss/zu einer Schlussfolgerung gekommen.?

Nevik Rehnel

and also the first part of it

Astrum

08:40

I can't find it

but I'm sure it's there somewhere

Nevik Rehnel

"Ich habe Solarenergie recherchiert und bin zu einer Schlussfolgerung gekommen."

Astrum

first bit I get fine, secon one... not so much

why is it intransitive?

Nevik Rehnel

hm?

Astrum

or transitive, I get name mixed up

"bin"

Nevik Rehnel

what would you have expected

Astrum

08:41

no "bin", just as is

Nevik Rehnel

oh, you need the bin because the first main clause uses "habe" for the Perfekt form of the verb

Astrum

erm, ok

Nevik Rehnel

"Ich bin gegangen und dann angekommen." <--- can leave out the second "bin" because it's the same.
"Ich bin gegangen und habe dann gesehen." <--- can't leave out "habe" because it's different

@Astrum it's just the normal Perfekt form of both verbs. you could use Imperfekt but in colloquial we use Perfekt most of the time

Astrum

ok, I think I understand

Nevik Rehnel

next sentence!

please provide~

Astrum

08:44

yup, one sec

from the very top, or from the 3rd sentence on?

how much of the first two were wrong

mit meinem - I got this correction

Nevik Rehnel

the first two were pretty fine. "erneuerbare" has no capital letter (normal adjective), and the comma is before the "dass", not after it

ah yes and that too

Astrum

Der Weltenergiebedarf ist rund 1.43 X 10^14 Kilowattstunden. Das ist ein Menge Energie! Die Sonne strahlt viele Energie zu die Erde, tatsächlich, ist 4.2 Kilowattstunden pro Meter (Erdoberfläche) pro Tag.

pro Jahr, probsbly should come after Kilowattstunden

because that's a yearly amount

Nevik Rehnel

The first two are alright. the third one should be "zur Erge", as @Vogel612 had pointed out

Astrum

oh, can I ask something else related

about "Area"

Nevik Rehnel

and yes, if you want to make it clear, add a "pro/im Jahr" or "jährlich"

sure

Astrum

08:47

Erdoberfläche is earth's surface

Nevik Rehnel

yes

Astrum

and oberfläche - is general area

?

Nevik Rehnel

oberfläche is surface area of a 3D body

Astrum

as in, die Oberfläche von X ?

Nevik Rehnel

yes

Astrum

08:48

what about R^4 =D

hypercube!

Nevik Rehnel

area is "Fläche" in general, when meaning something like the area of a lake or the likes

Astrum

and Ober is...?

Nevik Rehnel

area in the meaning "general area" or "region", is "Gebiet, Gegend, Region"

@Astrum ober is a prefix for "upper, top"

Vogel612

@Astrum well if you have the sqare root of a length as r then r^4 will actually be an area..

Nevik Rehnel

literally, at least

Astrum

08:49

but Gebeit is not a mathematical term?

I meant \mathbb R (as in 4D) @Vogel612

nvm

Vogel612

takkat had a message about that yesterday or the day before...

Gebiet --> Area

Nevik Rehnel

@Astrum not in the meaning of area. We use "Gebiet" in relation to technical/scientific stuff to mean "field" as in "research field" or "field of interest"

(and then, there is the mathematical structure field, which is "Körper")

Astrum

I thought that was Bereich =(

Nevik Rehnel

that too

lots of overlapping meanings

Astrum

I noticed

much sad

ok

. Der Weltenergiebedarf pro Tag ist (1.43 X 10^14)/(365) = 3.92 X 10^11 Kilowattstunden. Wenn die Wirksamkeit von der typisch Solarkollektor rund 15% ist, benötigen wir (1.43 X 10^14)/(15%)(4.2) = 6.22 X 10^6 km^2 {oder 6,220,000 km^2}. Was meint das? Der Flächenbedarf ist einfach fast so groß Australien.

Nevik Rehnel

08:53

okay, a couple things

Kashi

phew

Nevik Rehnel

first one of those is fine. but the second one has a few points

by Wirksamkeit you probably mean efficiency?

Astrum

yes

I had trouble finding a word for that

Kashi

you could just use Effizienz

Nevik Rehnel

in technical context, that is "Wirkungsgrad" (physical variable eta, power output over power input)

Kashi

08:54

or that :P

Astrum

Wirkungsgrad - this one has a nice ring to it

Nevik Rehnel

but kashi is right, Effizienz would also be acceptable here

@Astrum it literally means "degree of effect(iveness)" :D

Astrum

so why was Wirksamkeit wrong? what does it mean?

Nevik Rehnel

it means "effectiveness", which isn't entirely wrong but seems a bit weird here. as you would expect something more about the "efficiency" (Effizienz, Wirkungsgrad)

Astrum

yeah, I see

marked

Nevik Rehnel

08:57

the next part is in the wrong case. It would then be "Die Effizienz eines typischen Solarkollektors" (genitive)

Astrum

I get confused sometimes about when to use "von" and when to use genitive case

Nevik Rehnel

note that solar collectors generally refer to water-/fuid-heating panels.

power-generating panels are usually called solar cells, though the distinction is not as strict in english, i think

we call them Solarkollektoren vs Solarzellen

Astrum

oh

Vogel612

Photovoltaik-Zellen

Nevik Rehnel

@Astrum "Effizienz von typischen Solarkollektoren" would also be fine here

Vogel612

08:59

oder einfach PVZellen

Nevik Rehnel

@Vogel612 odda, wenn's da Frange sacht, Foddowoldaig!

Vogel612

ein Glück bin ich Schwabe und muss die Halbbayern nicht verstehen,...

Nevik Rehnel

@Astrum Photovoltaik is usually only used in formal and technical contexts though

normal people just say Solarzellen

@Vogel612 ja gell, die weintrinka muas ma o ned versteha

Astrum

we forgot this sentence - Sonnenenergie kann nicht genug Energie liefert.

I forgot it

Nevik Rehnel

@Astrum ah. @Vogel612 had already pointed out that it must be "liefern" at the end. otherwise that one is fine

Astrum

09:02

oh sorry, hard to follow everything

Vogel612

can you not update the text in realtime??

Nevik Rehnel

no worries

to summarize that other sentence. "Wenn der Wirkungsgrad typischer Solarzellen rund 15% ist/beträgt, ... [rest is correct]"

the next sentence should be "Was heißt das?"

or "Was bedeutet das?"

@Astrum to mean, when used for words, phrases or facts, is "bedeuten". "meinen" is used when people mean or think something

Astrum

Ah, you can't use "meinen" like that,

gotcha

Nevik Rehnel

"heißen" is synonymous with "bedeuten" here, though a slightly lower language register. and it doesnt nominalize (meaning in this context is "Bedeuting", but there's no synonymous noun from "heißen")

Astrum

stick with bedeuten

Nevik Rehnel

09:06

:D

the final sentence of that paragraph is fine as it is

Astrum

and the last bit

Ich verstehe, dass du anderen Arten benutzen möchtest, aber Solarenergie ist die effizientesten. Ich finde Solarenergie eine gut alternativ, aber es kann nicht die Hauptquelle

Vogel612

eine ~~gut~~ gute Alternative, aber es kann nicht die Hauptquelle (missing at least a verb here)

Nevik Rehnel

i love how @Vogel612 always starts somewhere in the middle with his suggestions, instead of at the front

Astrum

haha

sein*

I forgot to put sein

Vogel612

but everyone knows where i am or not??

Astrum

09:08

I see where you are

Vogel612

that would work perfectly

Nevik Rehnel

@Astrum the first sentence is fine except for the last word. it's either "die effizienteste" or "am effizientesten"

Astrum

why two?

oh ok, cases

Nevik Rehnel

yup :D

Astrum

and we're done, thanks a lot guys

Nevik Rehnel

09:10

well, and personally i would use "Energiearten" instead of just "Arten", to make the context a little clearer

Astrum

yeah, I'll make the sub

Nevik Rehnel

but that one's optional :P

Astrum

that went a little better than I expected. Aside from one true train-wreck of a sentence

Nevik Rehnel

haha

Astrum

there's always one train-wreck

Nevik Rehnel

09:11

well, you delivered what you promised :P

Astrum

\haha, I'm not full of hot hair

sorry for putting you through that, that took a while

If you have low expectations, you can never be disappointed, I suppose

Nevik Rehnel

haha

anyway, gotta do some uni work now. spent all of yesterday bs'ing >.>

Astrum

alright @NevikRehnel see you later, thanks again!

Nevik Rehnel

sure, no problem

later :D

Astrum

byeeee!

I'm gonna get a snack, AFK for a bit

shakthi

09:50

bis bald Astrum

shakthi

16:02

Gut nacht !

Vogel612

17:03

@shakti Gute nacht

Nevik Rehnel

@Vogel612 late reply is late

Vogel612

@nevik at least reply is reply at all ;)

Nevik Rehnel

@Vogel612 touché

Nevik Rehnel

19:26

damn. i just missed the power to edit a sent line on IRC

first time that this chat seems to have a feature superior to irc D:

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deutschsprachiger Raum