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DuttaA
DuttaA
06:54
@DukeZhou art in strict sense...But the essayist is probably trying to argue that the AI is creating art based on learning and training rather than thru that subconscious impulses created by our social experiences. But then again maybe in the future we will have AI with social experiences.
 
11 hours later…
vzn
vzn
17:52
this is a ~½ century of philosophers arguing against AI, ever since it was proposed, some very high reputation. while many are well spoken/ articulate/ plausible they are all wrong and their arguments are getting more contrived and desperate. its true there are some remaining "last bastions" of human intelligence uniqueness such as creativity but they are eroding right before our eyes.
DukeZhou
DukeZhou
@DuttaA A very good point, but I'd still argue that Kelly's take is fundamentally flawed. Tech Review did publish a brief counter argument by David Silver in which he concludes that "A baby doesn’t worry about its career, or how many kids it’s going to have. It is playing with toys and learning manipulation skills. There’s an awful lot to learn about the world in the absence of a final goal. The same can and should be true of our systems."

https://www.technologyreview.com/s/612923/how-alphazero-has-rewritten-the-rules-of-gameplay-on-its-own/
@vzn Yes. Now that I can see what the landscape looks like for human artists, I horrified to have to make counter arguments, but ignoring the math never leads anywhere good.
High art may be the last bastion of human exceptionality, with Shoenberg potentially more difficult to replicate than Lucian Freud or Rothko, but the bulwark is not the false notion that creativity is the exclusive domain of humans, rather the combinatorial explosion.
vzn
vzn
@DukeZhou kelly is quite enamored with Schoenberg. seems like he could pick a more solid argument. anyway art is a very slippery concept that verges into fashion. kelly didnt cite google deepdream once which is already highly influential on art field. just saw it in maroon 5 "cold" video.
DuttaA
DuttaA
18:15
@DukeZhou art is not difficult for a trained AI, but maths will be....Art is abstract in a subjective sense, but maths is abstract in a true sense. Can an AI bring out something out of nothing? Can an AI prove that e^iπ=-1? When this kind of intelligence is achieved then we can consider AI as our contemporary.
DukeZhou
DukeZhou
18:41
@vzn Kelly would do well to read Graves' The White Goddess to understand that there is both high art and low art, and, at different times, one or the other is dominant. (Case and point--rap is the dominant contemporary form of poetry, not ivory tower content.)
@DuttaA A very good point. And it does seem that those with a strong grasp of the math agree.
I'd go so far as to say that any philosophy not grounded in math, at this stage of advancement, is not particularly salient.
vzn
vzn
19:15
> A machine could not surpass us massively in creativity because either its achievement would be understandable, in which case it would not massively surpass us, or it would not be understandable, in which case we could not count it as making any creative advance at all.
> "If those books are in agreement with the Quran, we have no need of them; and if these are opposed to the Quran, destroy them." en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Library_of_Alexandria

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