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2:58 AM
Q: use BIBINPUTS to specify other location for .bib file

NoahRI'm trying to run bibtex from a different directory than my .bib file. According to the description in 'man bibtex', I should be able to set the envirorment variable BIBINPUTS to include the location of my .bib file. This is not working for me. What am I doing wrong? $ # Mac OS X 10.7.4 $ bib...

Possibly TL, because of the OP's comment?
4 hours later…
7:08 AM
@andrew in my opinion there was nothing rude about suggesting to you that you waste your time +others ifyou just google on a complex program rather than spending some time on learning the basics. Because if you don't you are bound to end up with some fairly problematical results and this will cost you hours
@FrankMittelbach As Andrew has not been to the chat room that I know of, I am unsure he'll see this. To be on the safe side, let's use the 'notify any user' tool: @@tex.stackexchange.com/users/2141/andrew@tex.stackexchange.com
@JosephWright I thought he would see that on his notifications anyway ... but that may have been only my guess
@JosephWright guess I'm blind ... what is the "notification tool"?
@FrankMittelbach Using two @ signs: may be mod-only, I'm not sure
Btw, shouldn't arara come here too?
A: Who are the package maintainers here?

Marco DanielSupport Scripts checkcites: Enrico Gregorio (egreg) and Paulo Cereda csv2latex: Alan Munn ctanupload: Martin Scharrer dosepsbin: Heiko Oberdiek (la)texdef: Martin Scharrer latexmk: John Collins mkjobtexmf: Heiko Oberdiek pdfcrop: Heiko Oberdiek pedigree-perl: Boris Veytsman sty2dtx: Mart...

7:55 AM
Q: Problem With Bibliography

VangelisI am trying to input Harvard style bibliography in my master thesis but I cant do it,in the Pdf file,I see the references but either they do not have the names at all, but they have the title of the book the publisher and the year or they are not placed in the appropriate position or either the u...

Does this look like a dupe of the question linked in the comments?
@FrankMittelbach As "andrew" hasn't yet been in chat, the @andrew defaulted to the nearest "andrew" who is ... me.
@AndrewStacey ahhh ;-)
8:43 AM
@JosephWright using to @ signs on what? and where?
@FrankMittelbach If you put two @ in a row, you (or at least I) get a box popping up to notify 'anyone' of a chat message
@JosephWright no popup
@FrankMittelbach Must be mod-only then: I was not sure
ok so you informed him?
@FrankMittelbach Well I hope so
1 hour later…
9:56 AM
@tohecz The next release hopefully will hit CTAN, so I'll add an entry there. :)
I found this "unusual" monospace font called monofur:
It's set on my Vim. :)
10:34 AM
@JosephWright It was working for me too but now I don't see the list.
@percusse I think it used to be general, but might have been altered by the Powers That Be
11:11 AM
@PauloCereda Does it implement small caps dotted İ correctly?
@Brent.Longborough I have no idea. :)
@PauloCereda It's a joke...
@Brent.Longborough I'm scared with that font! Look at dat L!
@PauloCereda LOL A bauhaus cedilla, and a jaunty, Malandro tilde.
@Brent.Longborough LOL love that Malandro note. :D
11:17 AM
@PauloCereda The capital Œ (as in subpŒna) is pretty scary
@Brent.Longborough ooh. :)
@PauloCereda And the ASCII-art box-drawing corners are nice, too!
@Brent.Longborough Oh I missed that.
I'm gonna try it out for some {lstlisting}s
@Brent: Oh my, it's cool! :)
For those who are curious. :P
11:30 AM
@PauloCereda The characters are a bit too wide for me. s/curious/perverted/ ? What a nasty little table! ROTFL
Back to Liberation Mono
@Brent.Longborough LOL I'll try that font for a while, let me see if I'll be corrupted. :D
I feel awful. I had to go back and remove a grocers' apostrophe from one of my answers. That has just ruined my day.
11:46 AM
@percusse Hasn't @PauloCereda finished this, yet?
@percusse @Brent Oh work in progress!
@PauloCereda It's what keeps us out of the bars...
@Brent.Longborough LOL
1 hour later…
Go UK! :P
@DavidCarlisle Aaaaggghhhh. I need to get one of my sockpuppets to vote for one of my questions to make us even again.
Either that or you can buy me a pint.
@AndrewStacey much to my dismay (as I was getting close) I felt compelled to give you a vote for that tikz foreach question this morning (I looked at it yesterday and gave up:-)
@DavidCarlisle I'm quite pleased with that one. I feel it shows that not all TikZ questions aren't real TeX ones.
2:01 PM
@DavidCarlisle How the mighty are fallen: tex.stackexchange.com/users?tab=reputation&filter=all
@AndrewStacey I'm sure enough people will ask questions requiring an answer of "use \protect" that I will get back ahead.
2:19 PM
@DavidCarlisle Or, as it turns out, \showoutput.
@AndrewStacey :-)
2:56 PM
Oh @PauloCereda: Now you are under pressure :-)
I have a project in mind, but it's still a work in progress. :(Paulo Cereda 3 hours ago
@MarcoDaniel I'm doomed. :D
Q: What's the relation between NbibTeX and biblatex?

ChristianBoth projects want to replace BibTeX in a way but with different goals. Searching for both search terms at the same time is a rather frustrating experience. Is there any mutual recognition at all? Can both be used together? Does the roadmap for Biber development aim to include the functionality N...

In some ways a reasonable question, but can anyone other than @PLK give an answer?
What's NbibTeX?
@PauloCereda Like BibTeX, but it does a full text search on cite key text
@JosephWright First time I heard from NBibTeX.
3:04 PM
@PauloCereda Never been sent to CTAN, that I know of
@MarcoDaniel Ah right
@JosephWright ooh, sounds like arara. :P
Robin would love it too.
Anyone heard of MlBibTeX? More tricky: anyone ever managed to see a copy of it? (I've never managed the latter, and I have tried)
@PauloCereda Yes: pity he does not pop by the chat
@JosephWright Can you lure him to register? :)
@PauloCereda He has got an account here, but said to me he finds the 'turnover' too fast (by the time you've thought about a question, it's been answered)
@MarcoDaniel That's why I added the links
@JosephWright Oh. :) Tell him to join the chat then. :)
3:25 PM
Dear reviewers, could you take a look in the interview draft? I could not add the code format, trying to fit every piece of question/answer/comment into the right place was challenging. :P Don't worry with the formatting, I'll run my interview fixer later. :)
@JosephWright There are several videos of talks about MlBibTeX available.
@StefanKottwitz Yes, I know
@StefanKottwitz Try finding any actual code
@JosephWright I'm sure the presentations show a link to homepage and source
> This raises another concern and that is: what is the future of ConTeXt
> is Hans "get hit by the bus"? (Of course, we even do not want to think
> about it...)

The answer to this question is quite obvious if you have read Douglas
Adams' books: the bus will think about the impact of its actions on the
universe for a moment. Then, deeply immersed in gut-wrenching shame,
it will travel back in time half a minute and push its own breaks for
an emergency stop.
@StefanKottwitz I really have tried to find something runable - I've never succeeded (been a little while)
3:32 PM
@PatrickGundlach: your "Installation chant" comment in the ConTeXt wiki humour page made my day! :) I wanna print and frame it over my development machine. :) Mr. Gundla. LOL
@anyone and @everyone: who's the TikZ-dev person that's registered here?
@AndrewStacey Christian Feuersänger? (pgfplots)
@JosephWright I thought that there was someone else who was a bit more involved with TikZ/PGF itself.
@AndrewStacey: Hope you don't mind my "editor's note" in one of your questions in the interview. :)
3:51 PM
@PauloCereda Ha ha.
@AndrewStacey :P
@JosephWright A-ha: it's cjorssen.
@JosephWright Next question: what's the easiest way to draw someone's attention to a question/answer? Is it to leave a @message on an answer of theirs?
@AndrewStacey They get notified of a @ message if the question (or answer) is theirs or if they've commented on something
@AndrewStacey At least in theory the special 'mod @@ chat messages' should reach them in all cases, if required
Ah, @PatrickGundlach, did you see the ConTeXt question that is bothering me?
@JosephWright no, I've just had a sightseeing tour in Berlin (self made tour :) and came home
@PatrickGundlach Oh, very nice. Berlin is a great place for a tour
3:58 PM
For example
this "underground" train goes through a normal house. really strange
@JosephWright do you have a link?
Hmm, I don't like leaving random comments unrelated to the q/a concerned. But @cjorssen has been in chat before so this might be enough.
Q: Text in outer margin of multiple columns

thestoneageI want to put some text in the outer margin (by which I mean on the left side of the page of even pages and on the right side of odd pages) of the page. My naive approach of using \inoutermargin{Text} fails when I use it with columns. Then the text is printed in the outer margin of the first colu...

@cjorssen Do you have any light to shed on the circumstances relating to this answer: tex.stackexchange.com/a/67227/86 (thinking about Henry's follow-up question)?
@JosephWright So aditya retired now after his interview? I miss an answer from him
@PatrickGundlach I hoped he might chime in, but nothing just yet. Perhaps he too is touring Berlin :-)
4:28 PM
@JosephWright no idea
@PatrickGundlach Phew: not just me then :-)
@JosephWright But I haven't used ConTeXt in ages
@PatrickGundlach I had quite a trial working out what I did: the wiki seems to be rather out of date on this
@JosephWright: is there a biber/biblatex mailing list for me to join and bug you guys? :)
4:49 PM
@PauloCereda Yes here
@MarcoDaniel I've been trolled. :)
@PauloCereda LOL
@JosephWright Done, thanks. :)
@JosephWright: will I find you, Audrey and PLK there? :)
@PauloCereda Yes
5:00 PM
@JosephWright Yay, party! :P
I won't invite @MarcoDaniel though, he trolled me. :P <3
I'm kidding, he's in. <3
@PauloCereda LOL
@JosephWright Personal I don't like such mailing lists. :-) I think based on the popularity of biblatex stackexchange need a new subpage ;-)
Q: Item in PaloAlto theme Beamer

user17602I would like to change the color of bullets in the PaloAlto Theme. I tried : \setbeamercolor{itemize item}{bg=my_color,fg=black} \setbeamercolor{enumerate item}{bg=my_color,fg=black} but then I still have a blue item... (my_color is almost orange)

Dupe based on last comment?
5:21 PM
Q: Should sorting logic be placed in the model, the view, or the controller?

Ryan KohnI have a drop down list that displays values from a table to the end user. I would like to have these values be sorted alphabetically. According to proper MVC design, at what layer should I place my sorting logic: the model, the view, or the controller?

Software Engineering. :P
I want to throw my Pressman book at someone.
6:19 PM
So, everyone remember that presentation I told you about, with the almost-as-bad-as-comic-sans font?
Here is what it wound up looking like
Which is too bad, as most of it was actually well done
6:52 PM
Hey @DavidCarlisle
7:15 PM
@Canageek ping
7:31 PM
@TorbjørnT. or @N3buchadnezzar How would you say the "standard game" words in Bokmål? "Game over", "High score" (and "score" itself)?
@DavidCarlisle Care to comment on the above presentation?
@Canageek 'a Cyclic Oligomers'?
@JosephWright Didn't even notice that. Opps. I'll have to mock him for that in addition to the font.
@Canageek my original comment (which I deleted before sending) was that at least the font choice made it noteworthy and gained international attention, which is more than can be said for most chemistry talks:-)
@DavidCarlisle heh. I saw a bunch at TRIUMF in comic sans.
7:39 PM
@Canageek No one ever checks the title page, etc. A friend of mine asked me to check his thesis recently. Typo on the cover page :-) (Luckily still writing, so it could be corrected)
@Canageek What were you up to at TRIUMF?
@JosephWright This was a page buried deep inside it, a second title. Also, the whole document was in this font, I just picked this page since I can't talk about stuff we haven't published yet.
@JosephWright I worked with the Starosta research group out that way last summer
@JosephWright Monitoring the radiation arriving in BC from Japan. My group was part of the TRIUMF collaberation though, and my prof wanted me to see 'how science is done'.
@Canageek Did you meet Donald Arseneau:-)
@Canageek Ah right.
@DavidCarlisle My thought exactly
@DavidCarlisle I'm trying to come up with a reason to do something at TRIUMF, rather than our own similar facility, so I can actually meet him :-)
@JosephWright we met him when TUG was in Vancouver years ago
@DavidCarlisle He is the one doing research into rate consants of H2 formation in H-H, H-D, H-T and H-mu right?
7:43 PM
@Canageek who cares what science he does:-) he is the source of all TeX knowledge
@Canageek Yup, that's him
@DavidCarlisle No, though I tried. I wanted to ask him about the lifetimes of his species, but I couldn't catch up to him. He put up a TeX document on screen, but oddly just through up a paper instead of an actual presentation.
@Canageek Have you done any muon experiments yourself, then?
@JosephWright No, that was the first I'd heard of them and wanted to learn more about htem
@Canageek 15-20 microseconds :-)
7:45 PM
@JosephWright Yeah, not long enough to be fun.
Sadly they don't use TeX, being organic chemists.
@Canageek I was down at RAL in Oxfordshire about 18 months ago, doing some muon work. We (UK) are pulsed, they are continuous
@Canageek I've got an organic PhD :-)
@JosephWright Did you use TeX during it? I'd only heard of it till I went to BC and worked with physics and math people
@JosephWright Well, here is our latest paper; I might be a coauthour on the next one in that series since I made one of the compounds that will go into it for Ying-Li dx.doi.org/10.1021/ja304211v
@Canageek No, but more because there was no 'local expert'. Someone else in our group thought about it, but in the end it did not happen. So my thesis is in Word, which was not much fun. That's 10 years ago now, and LaTeX was not so accessible then.
@Canageek I did quite a bit of chemistry-related work when I started with LaTeX, which is how I got into TeX programming
@JosephWright I know someone that did their thesis in word. It crashed at least once an hour and she had to relink her table of contents and figures 3+ times since they kept giving REFRENCE NOT FOUND
@Canageek That happens. I'm pretty good with Word, as it is the standard choice for most chemists.
7:50 PM
@JosephWright I've used it and OpenOffice.org a lot. I used to be really good, but I've let my skills atropy
@Canageek I've never got on with OpenOffice, I guess because it's so much about copying Office that if you have access to both it makes sense to stick to 'the real thing'
@JosephWright I don't think I have ever used a wysywig system to produce anything except once I gave a seminar at the EU and they insisted on powerpoint which was a pretty scary experience. I have word but it's a read-only system as far as I can tell.
@DavidCarlisle I'm used to doing chemistry diagrams, which really do work best graphically, so ...
@JosephWright I suppose these days you just put the chemical formulae into tikz, it works out all the reactions and draws necessary diagrams and all you have to do is publish?
@DavidCarlisle I like most of powerpoint; far easier to use then Beamer. I just wish they'd put some decent professoinal looking templates back in.
7:55 PM
@Canageek Certainly the beamer approach is very different: at least in part it depends on how you structure your slides. A similar story with posters.
@DavidCarlisle Well, there is ChemFig, but I still find it very awkward compared with ChemDraw, and the output is not great. For example, I suspect @Canageek would struggle to draw anything from the paper he linked to with ChemFig.
@JosephWright I struggle to draw the things in those in ChemDraw!
@JosephWright You should have 1 image and/or 3 points on each slide. 2 images are acceptable if you are comparing things.
@Canageek Well yes, I can see that too
@JosephWright I am getting better at it, but whomever designed the UI needs a good smack upside the head. Also, I don't trust it chemically, so I use Chemsketch for atomic weights and such
@JosephWright Is there any chemistry support for Lyx?
@Canageek For 'talk' slides, I favour the 'no text at all' approach, as they are supposed to support what you say. No sure yet about lecturers: will report back. I'm old enough (just) to have had lecturers with real slides as an undergraduate :-)
@StefanKottwitz Nothing 'special', although it does work with my achemso class
8:06 PM
@JosephWright all my undergraduate lectures were given with real chalk
@Canageek I guess it depends on what you are used to. I find it pretty straight-forward
@DavidCarlisle Most of mine were too, with a smaller number on OHP
@JosephWright Is there a corresponding layout file?
@StefanKottwitz Yes, I think so, although it's nothing to do with me
@JosephWright Just read such as Question on LC, minutes ago, and saw you talking about chemistry here
8:10 PM
@JosephWright correct
@StefanKottwitz The problem often is people say 'equation', which to me would be something like mhchem, but they mean 'scheme', which is what @Canageek and I are talking about, and which need specialist editors to write. There are a few, but integrating into Lyx would be I think too much to ask.
@JosephWright besides a .bst question I could not answer :-| even dealt with several LyX Qs today
@Canageek Have you tried ChemDoodle?
@StefanKottwitz Which one?
@JosephWright Never heard of it
PhD student just sent her thesis out to people. Discovered right after Word had changed the formating of every caption from Figure 3.12 to Figure 39.
@JosephWright modify bst file - he even send me urgent PM, but I'm not used to BibTeX styles
8:14 PM
@Canageek New-ish competitor to ChemDraw, etc. Available cross-platform, and cheap (compared with ChemDraw). At the moment, they've not got the 'round-trip' editing right, but do have NMR prediction for about $40. I'm tempted to buy a copy for that alone.
@JosephWright Thorsten and Clemens are on holidays, so currently not many answerers there
@StefanKottwitz I see. Will pop by and answer a few if I can :-)
@JosephWright Great!
@StefanKottwitz So most of the work is done by three of you?
@JosephWright Yes, us three and some occasional answerers, while a lot of beginners visit
8:25 PM
@JosephWright I still have ChemDraw from my uni (though only Standard), and ACD Student. No prediction, but I've never really wanted that --At least not for proton NMR
Sorry, had to get an NMR experiment setup, and the shimming on it was way out of wack, so it took forever.
@Canageek Also ChemDraw Std here, although I also have my own license from when the uni did not
@StefanKottwitz I do pop in most days :-)
@Canageek Sample depth OK?
@JosephWright I'd like to invite you to the powers that be, there, to retain a great contributor ;-)
@JosephWright I hope so; Not sure of the coil length on this thing, but I shouldn't be able to shim it at all if I'd not put enough solvent in.
@StefanKottwitz Fine with me: I did consider volunteering when the initial call went out when the site was set up
@JosephWright But no, I didn't ram my NMR tube into the probe fi that is what you are asking
8:30 PM
@Canageek :-) Our depth gauge has a dodgy bottom. The first thing I always check when asked 'why won't my sample shim' is 'did you check no-one moved the depth gauge' :-)
@JosephWright Oh, great news! I did not dare to ask earlier because I saw you doing so much already.
@StefanKottwitz Quite busy, of course. Will get busier, I guess, with new jobs. We'll see :-)
@JosephWright We'll have a party in a week or so, when Clemens returns ;-)
@StefanKottwitz :-)
Hmm, latest TeX Live update has picked up l3experimental but not l3packages or l3kernel (tomorrow, I guess). Expect someone to complain.
@JosephWright Ah, I didn't have much compund, so I used onjly a few hundre uL of solvent, so I just balanced it around the center
8:35 PM
@StefanKottwitz You'll notice that my contributions to beamer and biblatex are basically 'fix really urgent bugs'
Hello all
@JosephWright Yes, I noticed. Already very good to have that!
What's a quick way to get started using LaTeX for Maths?
@saadtaame texdoc mathmode
Where do I type this? I've never used LaTeX before.
8:40 PM
@saadtaame If you don't have it installed, it's also here: mathmode
@saadtaame Type it at the command prompt, i.e. cmd on Windows or in a terminal on a Mac or on Linux
@StefanKottwitz Ah yes, the mighty texdoc.net. How much is that costing you?
@JosephWright I pay about 70 euro each month for hosting several servers
@StefanKottwitz Non-trivial: does sponsorship for The LaTeX Community cover it?
@PauloCereda I took a quick look at the interview draft: looks OK
@JosephWright I'm the only sponsor ;-) I removed all ads and the donate link, when I started to host it. I like the site to be adversisement free and pure LaTeX. I can afford it, with my job I can cover it.
@AndrewStacey Not entirely sure actually ... "Spillet er slutt" perhaps, for "game over". For "high score" one could use "rekord" or something like "høyeste poengsum". As for "score", "stilling", e.g. "stillingen er 2-3".
8:45 PM
@StefanKottwitz Goodness, that is quite a commitment. Haven't been tempted to ask the various user groups for support?
Do you guys know of any light-weight program that I can use to try some LaTeX commands?
@JosephWright I did not thought of that. I also don't know if a user group cares.
@saadtaame You mean without a full installation?
@StefanKottwitz In Windows 7 one can type it in the search field in the start menu. Quite handy actually, just hit the Windows key, type texdoc lshort or whatever and hit enter.
@JosephWright I want the program installed on my machine (running Windows Vista). I don't have a decent Internet connection so..
8:50 PM
@TorbjørnT. Thanks, good to know!
@saadtaame You could try an online compiler first, before installing:
Q: Compiling documents online

ViviI have heard rumors that you can compile documents online, and more specifically that Google has a free online compiler, but I have never been able to find any. Is there a way to compile documents online, so that I can write and compile documents even if I don't have a TeX distribution installed ...

@saadtaame You can't get much smaller than a minimal MiKTeX or minimal TeX Live, but you can get TeX on DVD
@JosephWright Are the DVDs distributed for free (not as in freedom)?
@saadtaame They are available from user groups, often as a benefit of membership so not free normally.
@saadtaame However, there can be exceptions made
@saadtaame I'm secretary of UK-TUG, so I have lots of DVDs available :-)
@JosephWright I'm joining TUG.
@saadtaame They also give out DVDs
9:05 PM
/me snarls at columns and TLC plates and all they entail
@Canageek Probably I'm the only person here who feels your pain
Hey! Quick bibtex question. Or I should say natbib, right?
@JosephWright Quite likely. I wonder if there is a package to typeset TLC plates
@Canageek I've never wanted to reproduce them outside of my lab book, so I've not looked
Suppose I have 2 articles that I want to cite in text. Suppose the authors of the first articles are named A, B, C, and D, published in year 2000. Suppose the second one is by A, C, E, and G, published in 2003. In the text that would be A et al. (2000) and A et al. (2003). Is it possible to combine them into A et al. (2000, 2003) even if they are 2 different sets of authors?
9:09 PM
@JG Technically, I guess 'yes', but almost certainly any style guide would say 'no'
@JosephWright why would a style guide say no?
@JG Normally, 'et al.' with more than one reference means that they have the same author list
@JG The two lists are different, so the 'et al.' is more or less wrong here
@JosephWright Yes good point. The situation is that the first author is all I really want to refer to. They were articles spearheaded by her with just different sets of research assistants that made authorships.
@JG In my area, we'd say 'and coworkers', but then we don't use author-year referencing so it's one by hand. (The lead author in chemistry is given last in most cases, so 'et al.' is not what is wanted anyway.)
@JosephWright These are medical / public health studies. Like JAMA (journal of american medical association)
@JosephWright But I would effectively like to say coworkers. However, I want to link to the 3 articles in the bibtex so they appear in the references.
9:16 PM
@JosephWright Good point, I was just wondering. I'd be more intrested in NMR line spectra anyway.
@JosephWright Please excuse me if I am using the wrong terminology. Normally I hyperreference (or is it hyperlink?). And I use natbib and bibxtex. When I do \citet or \citep the reference appears in the text and if I click on it in the .pdf, it takes me to the bibliographic information in the reference section.
@JG You might manage it with biblatex: something like tex.stackexchange.com/questions/67033/… might give a clue
@JG Not sure about natbib: you could of course ask a question on the main site :-)
@JosephWright Thank you for showing me the thread! However, I do not understand most of it. What exactly is the problem?
@JG The idea in that question was to turn off the check that 'X et al.' should only be used if all of the authors are the same, which seems similar to what you want (just check the first author)
@JosephWright Oh ok. I could not tell. And what is the solution? I could not follow that either.
9:24 PM
@JosephWright Most, but not all. snarl. Then you have the people that put them in alabetical order vs the ones that put them in order of importance.
@Canageek Well yes. Personally I favour alphabetical, as it's 'mechanical', but as that's not what others expect it's not so easy to do. Handily, my surname will almost certainly place me last in such a scheme :-)
For example, that papre I linked before has the primary authour (The prof last), but then the first authour listed is the grad student that did the work, followed by the other two in the order they helped.
Alright, screw this, I'll just mix all the fractions together tommorw, I don't have enough compound to worry about purity, I'm going to have to do it again anyway
@Canageek The scheme I'm most familiar with is 'first author did lab work, last author is boss, near the front probably did some lab work or writing, near the end probably co-supervisor'
@JosephWright Yeah. A freind and I once spent ages going over a paper trying to figure out who was the primary authour (There were 10 or so) as they all had symbols by their name, and were all from diffrent insitutions. Then we realized it was alphabetica, picked our prof, because why not, and cited it that way
@JosephWright Strange, we always list the authors sorted by the surname ...
9:30 PM
@tohecz Most areas I think list 'most important' author first, as this makes sense with author-year citing
@tohecz Some people do favour surname-ordering: as I say, I think it's most logical
@tohecz Different conventions in different fields.
Well, in maths, you most often cite by numbers
@tohecz Same here, but you still need to be able to refer to for example a set of papers by one research group.
but I understand that in astronomy, most times only one name is written, even in the bibliography
@tohecz 'Foo and coworkers [1-5] have described ...'
9:33 PM
@JosephWright none of my papers ever exceeded 15 citations, so listing 5 of them is not that much a problem
@tohecz yep, different conventions
@JG Exactly
@JosephWright Did not mean to stur such a debate with the et al! :)
@JG No problem. It's come up before on the 'author-year or numerical' question :-)
@JG Most of it is about conventions, so there is not really a 'right' answer
@JG it's fine when the chat is on-topic, and not about food and football all the time...
9:35 PM
@tohecz I tend to keep the number of refs. down compared to some people, but I'd still expect around 40-50 for a full paper.
@JosephWright To cut down, I like to cite survey articles and just say see the survey, provided that it is a well regarded (credible) survey.
@JG If it works :-) We're expected to do that plus a good selection of original literature.
@JosephWright I see, what exactly do you do?
@JosephWright Well yes, I think the good selection of the original literature will inevitably come up. I just mean to cover the articles that you have absolute zero interest in citing because they are on the same topic but really not that related.
@JG Conversly, I prefer citing the original papers, as far as it really makes sense.
9:38 PM
@tohecz I'm a chemist. I'm starting as a lecturer in September
@tohecz Oh sure. I didn't mean it like that. I meant more like recent papers by big shots in the discpline. Sometimes people might expect their papers cited, but sometimes the paper is so not related. Or papers that are just not well done.
@JosephWright grats!
teaching is fine
well, been there, done that, and looking forward to more
@tohecz what are you doing next?
@tohecz Thanks
@JG starting double-supervised PhD, which prevents me from teaching at my home university
9:40 PM
@tohecz Yes, I'd done a selection already. No real lectures to date.
@tohecz what does selection and supervised mean?
where did I use "selection"? And double-supervised means that I will have 2 thesis leaders, one in Prague and one in Paris
so if any of you guys stumble across Paris, hit me up :)
@tohecz 'selection' was me, I think, meaning I've done some tutorials, lab cover and course design
@tohecz paris is great! lucky you
@tohecz That will make for interesting meetings
9:43 PM
@JosephWright really?
something specific on your mind?
@tohecz I've no idea how it works in your area, but in mine having two supervisors normally involves meetings in which the two argue while the student sits and wonders what to do. That sort-of requires everyone can get into one room easily.
@JosephWright no no no, that's completely wrong. My Czech supervisor is a wise lady, she's led me for 3 years already and she knows that as far as I work, I don't need much from her. So she'll be completely happy with my French supervisor giving me instructions.
@tohecz That sounds fine, then
@JosephWright yes, I really look forward to it. Anyways, I wanted it, I wanted these to person to supervise me, so everything's fine here
I wish you best at your position
@TorbjørnT. Interesting that there were no terms that "sprang to mind". The best I could find on the web were that the English terms were used (Google translate is funny: start writing "Game over" and it starts with "spillet" until you finish, whereupon it swaps to "Game over" as the translation).
9:50 PM
@AndrewStacey 'Mr Flibble says 'Game over, boys'?
@JosephWright Of course! And the dictionary file will start with Dictionary["smeg"] = true.
Well, I'm off to bed, so have a nice time doing whatever you're doing :)
spillet er over
slaget er tapt
says the dictionary
@JosephWright Authour-year citing is a abomination that should be banished from the earth
@JosephWright Cool, what university? Are you in South Amarica or the UK, I forget?
@Canageek I was about to say 'watch it, that is the sort of thing that gets starred', and a star appeared :-)
@Canageek UK: UEA
9:55 PM
@JosephWright I am fine with my opinion on that being known.
@JosephWright tohecz quits silently
@JosephWright Huh, one of my coworkers is moving to the UK. Says the Marie Curie grant is hell to fill out.
I'm not on the staff list yet, but feature in uea.ac.uk/che/pickettc/resgroup
@Canageek I've never tried EU money (yet): to come soon, I guess
Right, like @tohecz it's time for me to be off
@AndrewStacey there's the word skår for score. perhaps toppskår.
@JosephWright How would this be for a cool package; Embed .cif files into a PDF, so you could roteate and fiddle with crystal structures IN THE PDF
10:24 PM
@Canageek very!
@Håkon amusingly, one website gave me "score" as the Norwegian for "score" from the English, and the English word "score" from the Norwegian "skår".
@JG I've seen it in PDfs, but no idea how one makes it

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