@AlanMunn -- I suppose you've already seen this: newyorker.com/magazine/2019/10/14/… A little scary perhaps. And I was rather taken aback when, in a "machine generated" passage, presented in a monospace font, an "ffi" ligature appeared. Hmmm.

@barbarabeeton No I hadn't. It's a bit creepy, but I can see the value in it in some contexts.

@AlanMunn -- I've experienced it a bit in gmail, but invariably ignore it. The other day, my husband's "smart phone" substituted "vacation" for "vaccination". Hardly equivalent! My opinion: a decision between whether one can do something, but should not

@barbarabeeton Yes, probably right. I don't use Gmail, so I haven't had the pleasure of its mind.... :)

@barbarabeeton Because I often accidentally hit the keyboard layout selector on my phone (which changes the language), I often get autocorrect in French or Portuguese.

@barbarabeeton 'vacation' and 'vaccination' = all things we want right now but can't have. :)

@AlanMunn -- I think I'm glad my husband's phone operates only in English. (As far as I know.)

@AlanMunn -- Well, we do qualify for the vaccination, and will certainly take advantage of that before any vacation! (If the predicted snow permits, my appointment for a jab is tomorrow afternoon. Whee!)

@JosephWright I just realised, \clist_map_tokens:nn is missing from expl3 (which is arguably one of the most useful of the _map_tokens functions, since it can be made expandable and a clist is a very common input type, unlike \seq_map_tokens:Nn in which the seq has to be set up unexpandably).

@barbarabeeton yay!

@Skillmon map_tokens is newer than the others, so I'm not surpried

quack

> Microsoft Announces the Next Subscription-Less Versions of Office

^^ for those who do not like the 365 subscription thingy

@JosephWright I know, I just found it curious that it was added for prop, seq and tl, but not clist.

@PauloCereda lol

<3

@PauloCereda XD

@UlrikeFischer you have mail (sorry:-)

@UlrikeFischer How are ICC profiles used? Can we treat them as a colour model or do they need to 'override' DeviceXXXX?

interface3 now nicely organised

@DavidCarlisle answered two of them, and which is the obvious flavour?

@JosephWright well I think if used as in my example, I think they are a new model.

@UlrikeFischer Yes, just reading over the docs to chedck

@UlrikeFischer I'm taking a look at pdfa.org/wp-content/uploads/2011/08/…

@UlrikeFischer Looks like as you say you add it as a separate model: for PDF/A one then needs a check on which other models are used, but that's likely outside scope for the color module (one would set a fixed device model compatible with the ICC profile, I think)

@UlrikeFischer We could have the color module track/complain, but outside PDF/A I think you are allowed multiple models

@JosephWright no such testing is not for the color module. I'm testing/ensuring in l3pdfmeta that there is only one output intent and this seems to work. And if more testing is needed we can add it later. Currently my main concern is that we don't have two independant commands to embed an icc file and to store the small number of infos needed for it.

@JosephWright I just pushed l3pdfmeta in the verify branch (I will merge to master if the tests show that I didn't break something at the last minute). There you can see how I load a profile and the outputintent dependent on the pdfstandard.

@UlrikeFischer Expect a PR soon

@JosephWright oh no

@PauloCereda Not a controversial one!

@JosephWright don't you dare

@PauloCereda ZOMG! Recorder solo! XD

@Plergux woo

Hi all! After 5 very nervous days of uncertainity I tested COVID neg yesterday.

@yo' Good

@yo' Why were you nervous? Symptoms?

@yo' Is your sense of smell fine?

@FaheemMitha C+ contact on Saturday -- spent a day with close friends

@JairoA.delRio yep, it is.

@yo' C+ contact? I don't know what that means.

@FaheemMitha contact with a person who later tested covid positive.

@yo' Oh, I see. Yikes.

I think this is probably a good time to be a hermit. Fortunately, I have plenty of practice.

@barbarabeeton That's good to hear!

@yo' Glad to know you're fine.

@JairoA.delRio thanks

@yo' yay!

@Skillmon Well, we picked a symbol palette as a quick dev project at Overleaf; we do have some ideas, so let's see how they go...

(we just wanted to grab as many examples of something like this as possible)

@yo' ^^^

@samcarter_waiting_for_summer :) <3

@samcarter_waiting_for_summer Wonderful

In South Korea a flower in the head symbolizes craziness. The more you know :)

@JairoA.delRio In Iceland getting a fly in your head means having an idea. :p

@samcarter_waiting_for_summer ooh twitter.com/hyxpk/status/1362794137351720960

@PauloCereda :) nice!

@Plergux Oh, wow. I'd think the opposite (a fly going around an empty head), maybe because of animated series :D

@Plergux a fly in ones head sounds very distracting

Is there some way to find out what code in a TeX file causes a given package to be loaded?

@FaheemMitha er well if the package is zzz it will be \usepackage{zzz} (or \RequirePackage} which is the same thing)

@DavidCarlisle I suppose @FaheemMitha is looking at why it is loaded --- I mean, to find which feature of the code needs a given package (which I fear it is not possible to know because sometimes you never issue a command related to a package --- think for example a4wide)

@Rmano oh but that is the opposite question: which package causes the code to be defined. But perhaps you are right. @FaheemMitha ???

@Rmano a4wide: loaded to annoy egreg. seems clear enough reason.

@DavidCarlisle Probably @egreg is not listening, trying to calculate A(4,1) tex.stackexchange.com/questions/584112/ackermann-function ;-)

I got stuck at A(3,9) in Python :-)

@Rmano A(3,8) already fails with TeX

@egreg extending the default recursion stack python is able to find A(3,9). After that it explodes ;-)... iter=11164370, A(3,9)=409

@Rmano I found an Ackermann function calculator that shows all the steps: I stopped A(3,3) after I got really bored.

@egreg 'iter=2432, A(3,3)=61' just 2432 iterations. That function is evil

@egreg ooh

@DavidCarlisle Sure, but in some cases, a package can be loaded by another package.

As appears to be the case here.

@FaheemMitha Yes --- in that case, you have to recursively search for \RequirePackage commands.

@Rmano I was hoping for something a bit slicker. And recursively search in what?

@FaheemMitha You can look at the log file; a ( is opened when a file is inputted and is closed at the end, so you can see what is loading what --- although is not so easy, I reckon.

@FaheemMitha look in the log-file, it tells you which file is loading which. Use \RequirePackage{structuredlog} for a better layout (assuming a new latex).

For example @FaheemMitha:

) (/usr/share/texlive/texmf-dist/tex/latex/amsmath/amsmath.sty
Package: amsmath 2020/01/20 v2.17e AMS math features
\@mathmargin=\skip49

For additional information on amsmath, use the `?' option.
(/usr/share/texlive/texmf-dist/tex/latex/amsmath/amstext.sty
Package: amstext 2000/06/29 v2.01 AMS text
 (/usr/share/texlive/texmf-dist/tex/latex/amsmath/amsgen.sty

amsmath is loading amstext which is loading amsgen... (or at least I think!)

@FaheemMitha the log will show you the tree of nested input

oh that's been mentioned while I was eating duck fish

@DavidCarlisle we will have fish (soup) and XXX ;-)

@JairoA.delRio lol

@samcarter_waiting_for_summer Well, ideas can be distracting. :p

Hey all, especially L3 folks. Can someone remind me of the naming convention for L3 packages? I know I'm not supposed to call a package l3hobby, but if I want to upload the interface for the hobby code with l3draw, what should I call it the relevant style file?

@AndrewStacey sorry? what do you mean by interface?

@UlrikeFischer My hobby package splits into several pieces, there's the underlying implementation of the algorithm which makes no assumptions on how the path will actually be rendered, and then there's interfaces with actual drawing packages. Originally, it was just TikZ but when l3draw came along I realised it would be easy to adapt to that (I think Joseph helped a bit) so I designed that interface as well.

I've been sitting on a few bug fixes for this package for a while and want to get them to CTAN, and I may as well add the interface to l3draw as well. At the moment, my file is called l3hobby.sty but I have a recollection that that type of name is reserved for the l3 core stuff so I should rename it.

@AndrewStacey yes l3hobby wouldn't be good. How would you call the tikz interface?

@UlrikeFischer The TikZ/PGF libraries are called tikzlibraryhobby.code.tex and pgflibraryhobby.code.tex.

The core algorithm file is in hobby.code.tex.

@AndrewStacey hm. life would be easier if you had called that hobbylibrarytikz.code.tex ;-)

@UlrikeFischer Err ... not sure if I'm missing something, but when you put \usetikzlibrary{abc} in the preamble then it looks for the file tikzlibraryabc.code.tex

@AndrewStacey ah sorry yes. well l3draw hasn't yet a library interface, so you could use what ever name you want can't you? hobby-for-l3draw.code.tex?

@UlrikeFischer I wasn't sure if there was a convention yet for l3draw in particular and l3 in general. I'll go for something like what you said.

@AndrewStacey looks like 413 so yes, a bit.