@UlrikeFischer Beat me to it ;-)

@PauloCereda I mentioned it: tex.stackexchange.com/a/575584/2388

@PhelypeOleinik did you want to mention albatross too?

@UlrikeFischer I was just writing an answer :)

@UlrikeFischer Since you're here: why do I get this message after most (all?) tlmgr updates:

luaotfload | db : Version mismatch; expected -2, got -1.
luaotfload | db : Force rebuild.

@PhelypeOleinik hm, don't know, I don't see them, but I have always the luaotfload development version active. Ask better @MarcelKrüger.

@UlrikeFischer Ah, no problem, I'll wait for him. No rush

@UlrikeFischer It must be something I broke, because it didn't happen before, and now it does rather often

@PhelypeOleinik perhaps you have a local database somewhere.

@UlrikeFischer Maybe. How do I look for those?

@PhelypeOleinik perhaps it is a permission problem. Luaotfload-tool has a few debug options you could try.

05:01 is that @barbarabeeton? :-o

@yo' -- I'm here, but I'm not sure I understand your reference/question. ???

@barbarabeeton In vimeo.com/492532561 at 05:01 timestamp, there's a figure that reminds me of you :-)

@UlrikeFischer I'll try that. Thanks

@yo' -- The critter in the red hat? Admittedly, you'll almost never find me without a hat (if not on my head, at least nearby), but I thought that individual was marmot in drag. (That is not meant negatively or unkindly. I suppose I could have said "in disguise".) All in all, the video is quite fun. I especially enjoyed the language lesson and the bagpipes.

@barbarabeeton well, I thought of that figure as a lady with good style for both hats and art :-) (I hope I didn't offend you!)

@yo' -- We should all hope for clear skies on Dec 21, when Jupiter and Saturn will be in conjunction. Best view for 400 years!

@barbarabeeton ah. The true art exgraved by the nature herself :)

@yo' -- No, not offended at all. It's getting harder and harder to think of myself as a spring chicken.

@barbarabeeton :)

@yo' -- Yes. Hard to beat. Now, if it were possible to tone down all the ambient city lights, ...

@barbarabeeton I better wouldn't ask for that...

@yo' -- But I'm sure you know where you can find a place where the ground lights don't drown out the delights of the sky Wouldn't it be nice to also have a display of the aurora at the same time!

@barbarabeeton oh sure! But I'm afraid I won't really travel 100km on Monday to get a good view.

@yo' -- It's really too bad that our local observatory (Brown's 1890 Ladd Observatory, only about a mile from our house) is closed to visitors on account of the virus. Somehow, if the weather be good, I suspect that at least one of the staff will open the dome and point the telescope in that direction. (Jupiter and Saturn have been favorite targets on many nights we've joined the throng of spectators.)

@barbarabeeton if I get to go view it, I would have to rely on my brother's handheld binocular

@yo' -- Well, good luck. And I repeat -- hope for clear skies.

@barbarabeeton yeah, that's gonna be an issue -- I'm afraid the deep Icelandic cyclone won't allow that really.

expecting overcast, 3C and rain.

@PhelypeOleinik You probably ran lualatex with root permissions and therefore created a database in the global directory. This didn't get updated in the last three months, so it still has an older format. Try deleting /usr/local/texlive/2020/texmf-var/luatex-cache/generic/. (Assuming standard UNIX paths).

@UlrikeFischer awww <3

also, quack

baa

@Plergux hi sheep person!

@yo' seen on an ad on TV (can't remember of what) : Dad: you didn't make any wish for Christmas, honey... Girl: er... Last year I asked to spend more time with you and mum and look what's happened...

@PauloCereda 'morning to all @Plergux

@Rmano hi mr. squirrel!

@PauloCereda Hello all :D @Rmano

@Rmano genesidiunaforisma.blogspot.com/2015/07/….

@DavidCarlisle /hugs

@PauloCereda /breakfasts

@DavidCarlisle oh no

I think the L3 team should use the xcoffins sketch from the Extravaganza 2020 video as manual for the L3 coffins. :)

I am finally beginning to look at expl3 and friends. But where is \DeclareDocumentCommand documented?

@HaraldHanche-Olsen xparse at the moment

@JosephWright Oh, right. Thanks. Is there a roadmap to latex3 related documents somewhere? I wonder what else I am missing.

> NASA's internet connection can reach speeds of up to 91 gigabits per second.

@MarcelKrüger That's a weird thing to do (so it's not unreasonable to assume that I did :). I tried your suggestion, let's see what happens. What I found weird is that that message usually appears after a tlmgr update --all...

@CarLaTeX Yes, that :-)

@PauloCereda the albatross answer got me already 10 upvotes and two badges. You should write more tools ...

@UlrikeFischer It should also give you an Albatross-themed hat :)

@UlrikeFischer ooh

@PhelypeOleinik OH MY YES PLEASE

@Rmano I'm probably too slow today (or too busy with work as it's my weekend rotation), but I don't get the joke :(

Good morning everyone, btw!

@yo' No lockdown over there in 2020? ;-P

academicbeards.blogspot.com/2009/12/…

I AM SORRY, BUT WHAT

@PhelypeOleinik ^^ :D

@Rmano ah this. Ok, point taken, thanks for explaining.

@PauloCereda It would be quite problematic if it was an actual Albatross...

@PhelypeOleinik oh no

@UlrikeFischer Only boring hats :(

And yes, we're in lockdown, but I'm probably of the very least impacted by it: remotely working, living alone, ...

@yo' Yes, I understand. Here the March-June period has been really different for children. No school, at home with their parent that were at home too --- a lot more contact hours really.

@Rmano Yeah, and actually, opening schools is the biggest factor in the subsequent waves, studies suggest :-( And with our gov't (Czechia) being a bunch of shitheads, we'll get a large-scale vaccination maybe next Xmas.

(I definitely plan to pay myself two trips to Germany or Austria as soon as it's possible to self-pay to get a shot of the vaccine there.)

Hmmm... does anybody really into TikZ (me? really not... ;-P) explain if it's expected that:

 \draw (0,0) to[] +(1,0) -- ++(0,-1);
 \draw (2,0) to[out=0, in=180] +(1,0) -- ++(0,-1);

act differently?

(never really liked the just-one-+ style coords, but hey...)

@yo' The numbers in schools were quite carefully tracked here and so we know that they were not a problem.

@UlrikeFischer I mean, careful tracking helps in any occasions obviously (Taiwan showed us that it's the difference between permanent lockdown and close-to-normal living); but I read about a study that really simply compared (using ANOVA or alike) increase in R and various measures the countries took, and opening schools and unis came as the second worst after allowing very large gatherings (festivals etc.)

@yo' I don't know about other countries, and it is quite possible that the school situation is there different (e.g if they have more boarding school etc). But in Germany it wasn't a factor.

@UlrikeFischer that's interesting and sligtly surprising to me. I truly wonder how much of the "Other" in dw.com/en/where-do-people-get-infected-with-the-coronavirus/… is actually schools (given children are most commonly the silent transmitters).

@MarcelKrüger Updated TeXLive and the message didn't show, so I think it worked. Thanks!

Is l3doc.ist still maintained?

@Rmano I dunno. I have never relied on the single-plus markdown as it behaved differently for to and --. That's also probably what you see here.

Also

@JosephWright I know that l3doc.ist isn't generated and distributed currently. Is the different sorting of I the only difference to gind.ist?

Ok, took a look myself, and the only difference currently is the page_precedence "rnaA" line at the end.

@Skillmon It should be generated from the .dtx, but if I remember correctly, the l3 documentation uses gind.ist

@PhelypeOleinik well, you can generate it from the .dtx (it currently isn't, via comment). And yes, it seems to be unused, except for menukeys, which uses it in its Makefile.

@Skillmon I wonder why menukeys uses it (I think there's a comment somewhere saying that the .ist file isn't distributed... perhaps it should)

@PhelypeOleinik the comment is directly in l3doc.dtx, as well as the information that gind.ist is currently used instead.

Stuff like \listoffigures puts small gaps between different chapters in the list, but the ones I make with \listof{stuff}{List of stuff} doesn't. Do you know how I can get the same effect in the latter?

@Plergux MWE?

@Skillmon ah, ofc. sorry, sec.

@PhelypeOleinik You have an email ^^

@PabloGonzálezL Reading it now :)

@PhelypeOleinik Jejeje...good :D

@Plergux maybe stackoverflow.com/questions/61517319/… ?

@samcarter_prepared_for_xmas Maybe, but I can't see how I would adapt it to my custom floats. :|

\documentclass{book}
\usepackage[T1]{fontenc}
\usepackage{tikz}
\usepackage{xcolor}
\definecolor{raudur.j1}{RGB}{200,73,10}
\definecolor{raudur.j2}{RGB}{158,9,32}
\definecolor{raudur.j3}{RGB}{110,9,9}
\definecolor{raudur.j4}{RGB}{230,59,9}
\definecolor{raudur.j5}{RGB}{136,8,40}
\definecolor{raudur.j6}{RGB}{255,14,72}
\definecolor{raudur.j7}{RGB}{204,16,29}
\definecolor{raudur.j8}{RGB}{228,139,120}

\definecolor{raudur.m}{RGB}{225,11,11}

\usepackage{float}
\floatstyle{plain}
\newfloat{wordlist}{tbhp}{lol}[chapter]

@Plergux if you look in the lof-file your can see that the space is a simple \addvspace command. So you can add it simply manually to your wordlist when needed:

\addtocontents{lol}{\protect\addvspace {10pt}}
\chapter{More figures and stuff}

\usepackage{xpatch}
\makeatletter
\xpretocmd{\@chapter}{\addtocontents{lol}{\protect\addvspace{10\p@}}}{}{}{}%
\makeatother

And after you learned this you can look if the package or something else offer some option to this automatically at every chapter ...

@UlrikeFischer @samcarter_prepared_for_xmas Thank you! :D

Friends, do you know if there's a dashed version of \vline?

@PauloCereda arydshln package, but be careful, it has to be loaded in the right order (and is not compatible with everything).

Design of learnlatex.netlify.app is progressing

WE have the 'forward'.'up'/'next' stuff in place (@DavidCarlisle)

@JosephWright reminds me of the German translation... :(

@Skillmon Ah, yes: that looks like a stub

@UlrikeFischer Actually I don't think the package can help me. I wanted to added a dashed line between two minipages. :)

@JosephWright think I found a bug in the current design.

@UlrikeFischer I could not find any command in that package...

@PauloCereda well you can use leaders, but tikz is probably faster.

@Skillmon Please log an issue

@Skillmon Jonas is working pretty hard at it

@JosephWright I know. Should I put issues regarding his design branch just at the top-level of our git?

@UlrikeFischer true...

@PauloCereda maybe tex.stackexchange.com/questions/257759/… ?

@samcarter_prepared_for_xmas Thanks! I think I will try with TikZ first. :)

@PauloCereda Instead of dashes you could use duck shaped foot prints with tikz :)

@samcarter_prepared_for_xmas ooh :D

Now, question is how to keep my TikZ stuff in between the two minipage thingies. :)

@PauloCereda tikzmarks?

@samcarter_prepared_for_xmas Heavens no, I just want a dashed line between two minipages. :)

@JosephWright minimalistic issue opened :)

@PauloCereda simply put them between the minipage (and perhaps use \tikz[overlay])

@UlrikeFischer derp, negative coords. :)

@UlrikeFischer I am an idiot. :)

@PauloCereda (crazy idea: place the two minipages in a side-by-side tcolorbox and let this draw the dashed line for you?)

@samcarter_prepared_for_xmas ooh that's clever too :)

@samcarter_prepared_for_xmas @UlrikeFischer I forgot about my TikZ ABC, sorry for the noise. :)

@samcarter_prepared_for_xmas, @UlrikeFischer thank you very much for the pointers, TikZ was indeed easier, despite me being an idiot. :)

@PauloCereda :D Have fun with tikz :)

@samcarter_prepared_for_xmas oh no :)

@samcarter_prepared_for_xmas @UlrikeFischer see email. :)

Finally found the time to take another look at the few changes I did to menukeys, so a new version is incoming, that allows active characters as the separators.

Next hobby-project: create a new PR for l3keyval to allow n-type arguments.

@Skillmon ooh can we have carrot-type arguments?

@PauloCereda I don't think there are carrot-type arguments in expl3, but you might ask @JosephWright or Frank to add them :)

@Skillmon ooh

@PauloCereda nice ;-)

@UlrikeFischer thanks to you and @samcarter. :)

I'm spending the weekend learning about \expandafter\@firstofone and such.

@LaTeXereXeTaL The joy of TeX ! Extra \fi :)

@PhelypeOleinik LOL

@JosephWright borisjohnson.info

@JosephWright I got the n-type arguments for l3keyval coded. Slowdown for 100 key=val pairs is 1% or 2%.

Ok, doing l3build doc in l3kernel was a bad idea...

@Skillmon I'm sure @DavidCarlisle agrees

@PhelypeOleinik What is the correct way to document \keyval_parse:nnn? Is adding it as a variant to \keyval_parse:NNn fine, or (since N and n types are treated separately elsewhere) should I put a second environment for \keyval_parse:nnn which references the documentation of \keyval_parse:NNn and say "but allows arbitrary tokens"? Or switch out \keyval_parse:NNn with \keyval_parse:nnn completely and just leave a note that \keyval_parse:NNn is still available?

@Skillmon I'd say one environment for each (with basically the same text) and a note saying that they share the same implementation. interface3 documents the user interface, and they have rather different usages (even if not so much), so I think a single environment is not good

@PhelypeOleinik just realised, the EXP flag for them is wrong, they aren't f-type safe. What's the correct flag for f-type unsafe fully expandable functions?

@Skillmon rEXP (r = restricted)

@PhelypeOleinik thx

@Skillmon or roughly EXPandable :)

@PhelypeOleinik well, they are fully expandable, just not in an f-type.

@Skillmon That's the marvel of "roughly". It fits the bill always. Better than rapproximately

PR done, please welcome \keyval_parse:nnn

@Skillmon If the implementation changed I think you have to change the updated date of \keyval_parse:NNn

@PhelypeOleinik point taken.

Please, does anyone have any idea why would the .out file start with something like this?

\protect \let \reserved@d =[\def \def \unskip \reserved@e {\reserved@f \relax }\protect \penalty \@M \hfil \protect \penalty -\@M {[1][-]}\futurelet \xdef 0{3}\advance \interlinepenalty \linenopenalty \linenoprevgraf \prevgraf \global \holdinginserts \thr@@ \@@@par \@tempdima \prevdepth \setbox \@tempboxa \hbox {}\dp \@tempboxa =\@tempdima \prevdepth -\@m \p@ \kern -\@tempdima \box \@tempboxa \global \holdinginserts 0\advance \interlinepenalty

-\linenopenalty \let \unskip \reserved@e {\reserved@f \relax }\protect \penalty \@M \hfil \protect \penalty -\@M \unskip \reserved@e {\reserved@f \relax }\protect \penalty \@M \hfil \protect \penalty -\@M \unskip \reserved@e {\reserved@f \relax }\protect \penalty \@M \hfil \protect \penalty -\@M [2][]{subsection.2.3

what puzzles me is that I thought it intended only for \BOOKMARK commands!

@yo' someone did put something quite fragile in a sectioning command.

@UlrikeFischer ah! Could be, yes! Thanks, you're a saviour!

(Also, could someone explain me why there's anyone thinking that making \begin{document} include \begin{somethingelse} without \end{document} including \end{somethingelse} is a good idea?!

Thanks again @UlrikeFischer, solved by \robustify\textsubscript (or maybe not... :-( )

@PauloCereda Thanks for the github link. That does look very useful indeed. So if I end up using Zotero it definitely will come in handy.

@yo' mdpi templates? Grrrr

@Rmano how did you guess? :D

And I have no idea why the pages are in a wrong order :(

@yo' 'cause I lost one hour of life discovering that you are supposed to \end{paracol} before the bibliography...

They make some strange thing with the float placement. I had to add a couple of clearpage to break a 200 loops and no progress errors from the output routine that will generate out of order pages.

Quite a mess

@Rmano yeah :(

@Rmano And who in the world specifies EPS explicitly in 2020?!

@Rmano You've got the to[...] in the wrong place. Try \draw (2,0) -- +(1,0) to[out=0, in=180] ++(0,-1); to get what you might have expected.

Should \include be made inaccessible before \begin{document}? Would it affect to many poor users?

@yo' it is nonsense, but normally works, and lots of people are using it there, I have to correct it all the time.

@UlrikeFischer yeah. Just had a user who did that, and also placed \documentclass into the included file. This throws Overleaf off-guard :D

Btw, we hope to soon release an improvement to the way how errors are displayed. If any of you use Overleaf and wanna check it out, you can opt in our Beta program (in Account Settings) as Beta users will see it first :-) (And if anyone was interested in even sooner pre-release, drop me an email to tom.hejda at company and I'll see what can be done)