@DavidCarlisle -- Have you looked to see if any other math letters have such a small IC? If the value for "R" is the only one, maybe it should be reported as a potential bug. (Still a couple of days to submit bugs for this review.)

@barbarabeeton Isn't our entire state like 15 minutes across? I thought it was the PEI of the states

@Canageek -- Where are you located? (Indeed, Rhode Island is the smallest state in the U.S., but a little larger than 15 minutes across when traveling on the ground.)

@barbarabeeton Right now BC, but I should be graduating in a few months so I'm applying for jobs all over. I was turned down for one in Oregon, applied for one in Liverpool yesterday, and am applying for ones in MN and Guelph, ON this weekend

I'd love to live in Guelph, I spent a lot of time there when I was an undergrad, AND a lot of my high school friends moved there when they were priced out of where we grew up

@Canageek -- Never been to Guelph. Most of my traveling by car in Canada has been to the east. But the parts of western Canada I've visited (arriving by plane) have been exceedingly copacetic. I found Victoria particularly attractive, but I suspect it's outside our price range. And I didn't explore the theater scene, which in Rhode Island was amazingly robust and varied until the virus took over, and I miss it!

@barbarabeeton Guelph isn't in the west, but yeah. My parents live on Vancouver island, it is lovely

Guelph is right next to Waterloo, which you might have heard of, I know it is big in the math world

@AlanMunn -- A question I hope you can answer. A question on texhax asked what is the meaning of .fot as in the extension on a couple of files (e.g. `trip.fot) in the ur-TeX distribution. David Fuchs identifies this as being "meant to suggest "Fotograph" (of the screen)", but wants to know what the technical term is for this sort of "abbreviation". It's sort of second-order, as "fotograph" is already not a standard spelling. I hope you can help.

@Canageek -- Oh, I know that Guelph is in Ontario. By "east" I meant Ottawa and farther east, especially along the St. Lawrence River.

@barbarabeeton Ah, generally I count "east" as "East of Quebec City"

@Canageek -- Fair enough. The Gaspé is a wonderful area to explore. We've reached it from both ends. (Halifax has a truly impressive harbor; the only more impressive that I've visited is Hamburg.) And one of my favorite memories is a time in one of the provincial campgrounds (do they still exist?) chasing after a big brown owl that kept moving around in the treetops.

@barbarabeeton I've never been further east then Quebec city, sadly. I lived in Montreal for a couple of months, but it was January when I moved in, and a cold winter even for Montreal so I didn't go outside much.

@barbarabeeton I've been in Halifax when I was serving in the Navy - impressive tides, over there. And good seafood!

quack

@PauloCereda A DUCK

@PauloCereda 早餐

@JosephWright ooh

(begin
  (display "oh no")
  (newline))

@DavidCarlisle ^^

/quacks in Scheme

> Microsoft's Latest Windows 10 Test Builds Includes Promised x64 Arm Emulation

> Gmail Will Now Let You Edit Office Documents Directly From Email Attachments

ooh Sephiroth in Smash

@PauloCereda oh no, Jenova's boy gonna smash them all out of the ring.

@Skillmon ^^ you were saying :)

@PauloCereda oh, long Masamune.

ooh rabbits are good with Final Fantasy lore <3

> The Muppets’ Swedish Chef available now in Overcooked: All You Can Eat

@JosephWright ^^

@PauloCereda pretty good, I completed 7 several times (as well as 6 and 10, been halfway through 9 when the CD died down, started 12 but didn't like the new "leveling" system, next I want to play through 1)

@Skillmon FF is great :)

Final Fantasy AND Firefox. :)

@PauloCereda yep, my favourite browser.

@Skillmon mine too! <3

@PauloCereda and the games are among my favourites as well (clearly my favourite story driven games)

@PauloCereda oh, a Firefox carrot. <3

@Skillmon ooh

@Skillmon ooh

@PauloCereda gotta pump those numbers up?

@PauloCereda 9447 two more and you have a palindrome.

@Skillmon ooh

@PauloCereda OH WOW

@PauloCereda the big question is, will he try to summon Meteor to win every fight?

And are Cloud, Tifa, Barret, et al. also included?

@Skillmon I think it's his Final Smash

Those were the days. When I got no responsibilities and could play FF7 with my brothers. I miss those days.

@Skillmon no, perhaps one might join the future...

@Skillmon ooh a rabbit gathering <3

> Rats love driving tiny cars, even when they don’t get treats arstechnica.com/science/2019/11/…

Wait, WHAT?!

@Skillmon someone in Twitter just drew the following... What if Kirby absorb Sephiroth?

@Skillmon Seven and Ten are the best ones. :D Auron is much cooler than Sepiroth though. :p

@Plergux my favourite is probably Kefka. Just too wicked and over the top, and the twist he gave to FF6 was just amazing. I wish I could replay those games without knowing their story.

@Plergux my little sister once deleted my FFX save in which I had everything perfect except for HP-stats, Luck, only 3 out of 7 perfect armors, and Blitzball. I hadn't yet beaten all the dark Aeons. I lost a play state with >300h on the clock back then. And why did she remove it? Because she needed the space for her new The Sims 2 save state :(

@Skillmon Yeah, it's the "Joker" vibe. :p Same as Hisoka in Hunter X Hunter. :p (and a little nod to Kafka, perhaps? :p)

Here I am, the group's linguist fluent in as many languages as google translate, and yet I have no idea what anyone in this room is saying.

@Skillmon OHMYGOSH!!! That's one of those scarred for life situations! I didn't play much games back in the day, but I have four younger siblings so I can relate to a certain level. :p

@Plergux but game wise, yes, seven and ten are the best ones so far (I haven't played them all, though, and there are too many I started and never finished because something came in the way).

@DavidCarlisle see, there is more to language then just words. It's always tinted by the cultural background. But you, as a natural, knew this of course :)

@DavidCarlisle What is more your area of expertise? Wodehouse? Debussy? Peter Lorre? D. A. Cruse? Dante? Jellied salad? :p

@Skillmon no, me neither. The first ones are before "my time" :p and I think it was in eleven or twelve where they made it into a railroad which took half the fun out of it :|

I was worried there was a bug in siunitx ... luckily not tex.stackexchange.com/questions/574491/…

@Plergux well, 10 was already the start of the railroad, it only became more open late in the game. But 10 had a brilliant story which made up for this.

@Skillmon That is true :) But my favourite games are when you can pretty much forget about the story and do whatever. :p Like the Elder Scrolls games. :)

@JosephWright good call: not only blame the OP for input error in this document, blame all other users for the interface design, leaving you completely in the clear.

@DavidCarlisle :)

@JosephWright but I think a different output is wanted, not rads, but rads-1.

@UlrikeFischer I get these weird requests: whenever I ask for published examples, I get 'Oh, I just prefer it' or 'it's for teaching units' (which is really out-of-scope)

@UlrikeFischer I'm trying to address the 'why is there an error' part

@JosephWright right.

@JosephWright I corrected a small error in the color stack code for lualatex. Beside this it works fine. But I'm wondering about two things. The init command assigns an int, and as this should stick, something like \__kernel_color_stack_init:Nnn\c_transparent_stack_int {}{0~g} would look sensible, but this errors with debug as the int is not declared. What is good practice here?

@Skillmon OH NO

@DavidCarlisle ooh

@JosephWright and the second question is what to do with dvips/dvipsvgm. I wonder if I can get there at least a bit support (but I need to think about it later)

@UlrikeFischer The issue we have is we have two different mechs for defining the int: pdfTeX provides the number, we have to pick it for dvipdfmx. So I thought one would use a scratch int here, and then do \int_const:Nn \<name> { <scratch> }

@JosephWright that is what I did then, I only wondered if I missed something well-known to assign a constant int without this step.

@UlrikeFischer If you can think of a better plan, let me know :)

@JosephWright convince people to start using Word?

@JosephWright well the init code could do \int_const:Nn #1 ..., but it is probably not a good idea to force an N type to be a special variable type at this level.

@UlrikeFischer It's an internal abstraction, so we could do: the people using it should just be us

oh wait

@JosephWright Would it be possible to release beamer v3.60 to ctan?

@samcarter_preparing_for_xmas Ah, yes: I got held up with a build issue. I'll sort it

@JosephWright Thanks a lot!

As this answer by @egreg says, I don't see why latexmk treats an empty dcoument as an error, and it's causing me problems.

Does anyone know if a feature request for this has been made?

I don't see a public repos for latexmk. The man page mentions a John Collins is current maintainer.

@FaheemMitha does it matter? If you don't like the behaviour, write the maintainer.

@UlrikeFischer If there was a bug tracker, I would be avoiding duplication.

@FaheemMitha yet if you don't voice it, the maintainers will either keep the "issue" low-priority or simply mark it as wontfix. IMHO it's better to write.

@PauloCereda I'm not actually aware of a bug tracker, so such priorities may not exist.

@FaheemMitha then you have nothing to lose in writing it. :)

@DavidCarlisle When I don't understand what someone is saying, it's often about video games.

@PauloCereda Nothing to lose but my chains!

Sorry, wrong conversation.

Is a PDF file notionally printed output?

@FaheemMitha sorry?

@FaheemMitha politburo

@UlrikeFischer Is it correct to describe a PDF file as printed output?

I think worrying about paper these days is considered old fashioned.

John Collin's email obfuscation is do good it even fooled me.

@FaheemMitha well it is not always printed. Actually many are never printed.

It'll fox the spammers for sure.

@UlrikeFischer Yes, I know. But can one consider the act of creating a PDF file to be printing?

@FaheemMitha In my opinion you generate a PDF. Then you can print it If you want. The PDF has more info than the physically printed thing.

TIL: If you shift your hand slightly over your keyboard and you type subfigure, you'll get sinfigure.

@yo' Impressive that your shift affects the one u but not the other ;)

@DavidCarlisle the next package which destroys your carefully written picture code:

\documentclass{book}

\AddToHook{shipout/background}{%
    \put(\hoffset+1in,\voffset-1in){blub}}
\usepackage{pictexwd}

\begin{document}

zzz

\end{document}

ooh blub

@TeXnician I correct the position of the hand in-between :D

(btw, it applies to all sub* package equally I'm afraid.) /stopping now before I offend several zillion package maintainers out there...

ooh now I want to play Mortal Kombat and select SubZero

@PauloCereda Or watch Yellow Submarine :p

@Plergux vvvv

In the town where I was born,
Lived a man, who played with 'C'.
And he coded his whole life
On a stack of Function Keys.

So we traced to his data schemes,
Til we found a 'C' routine..
And we lived beneath the SAVES,
In our yellow Sub-Routine...

Chorus:
WE ALL live in A YELLOW SUB-ROUTINE,
YELLOW SUB-ROUTINE, YELLOW SUB-ROUTINE .... (ETC)

When our friends are on the boards,
Many MODEMS RETURN NEXT:FOR
Then the BAUD RATE goes astray...
(B-B-BEEP, BEEP BEEP B-B-BEEP..)

Chorus (IF YOU CAN STAND IT!)

@PauloCereda LOL!

@UlrikeFischer % This is prepictex.tex Version 1.1 9/10/87 tis the season for dragging up ancient code.

@UlrikeFischer why didn't \let\put=\!latexput work to put the latex one back? (no time to look now, work meeting in 5 mins)

@DavidCarlisle no idea, I thought it better to let the OP decide if he wants to use pictex before starting to consider to setup a "secret repair pictex group" ;-)

@UlrikeFischer % G"andertes PiCTeX.TEX mit weniger Dimensionsregistern % big words no spaces, clearly your department not mine

@DavidCarlisle it breaks with \usepackage{pictex} too.

ooh 12 days of JadeTeX?

@DavidCarlisle ??

@JosephWright see @UlrikeFischer's comment above, pictex broke

@DavidCarlisle actually the problem is that the shipout hooks use \put outside a real picture environment. So similar to this:

\documentclass{book}

\usepackage{pictex}

\begin{document}

xx\put(\hoffset+1in,\voffset+1in){blub}

\end{document}

@UlrikeFischer ah

1.Buy a 3D printer
2.Print a 3D printer
3.Return the 3D printer

ooh success

@Plergux ^^ :)

@PauloCereda LOL I can't wait until I have room/money to buy a 3D printer. :p

@Plergux ooh same

@DavidCarlisle this seems to work \AddToHook{shipout/before}{\cs_set_eq:Nc\put{!latexput}}

@UlrikeFischer yes or we could define an \@@put in the format and use \@@put in place of \put` in internal uses.

@DavidCarlisle Yes, that would be an idea. We could then add \let\put\@@put before the shipout hooks and user code would work there without all this odd old picture packages interfering.

@UlrikeFischer better use @PhelypeOleinik's fancy copy command thing though as \MakeRobust\put

@UlrikeFischer probably should make a 2e issue

@UlrikeFischer although it would work (and be faster) with \let just as the pstricks save with !put works as pstricks doesn't over-write \put<space>

@DavidCarlisle yes, but we can't rely on other package to be so considerate too. But pictex overwrites more: \multiput, \frame, \linethickness. Should we really reinstate all picture commands all the time because of it?

@UlrikeFischer the alternative of course would be to put a 0 sized picture mode around the \put use (I know we discussed that) then pictex would restore them... Or we modify pictex to leave the latex definitions the top level and only use its comands inside pictex code (but that likely to break something)

@UlrikeFischer there can't be many people using pictex now, so doing as little as possible so it works would be good...

@PauloCereda When you visit Germany, you can use my printer for step 2.

@MarcelKrüger 4. explain to customs what this strange 3d printed thingy is

@MarcelKrüger ooh <3

@samcarter_preparing_for_xmas it's a souvenir <3

@samcarter_preparing_for_xmas hopefully he won't be flying via London or he'll never get anything through customs :(

@DavidCarlisle oh

Depending on what you want the printer for, I've actually gotten better results with Shapeways then even a tens of thousands of dollars printer

It isn't very expensive if you stay in the cheaper plastics, though of course you can't do endless iteration like you can with your own

Also: If the issue here isn't related to kpfonts I'm asking that in another question. I hate that I have to load it and have it do a metric buttload of side effects just so chemmacros can load a few glyphs from it. I with there was a way to say 'provide this font from this package, ignore all the other stuff in it"

@Canageek yes which font do you want, basically skip the package and something like \usefont{OML}{jkpttvos}{m}{n} zzz ?

@Canageek if you use the package and set some Greek, adding \showthe\font will show the NFSS parameters being used, then \usefont as above with those parameters should select the same font without the package, most likely.

@DavidCarlisle Leaving this open in a comment for now.