@DavidCarlisle oh my. That's the advantage of being here from the beginning, you got to answer many elementary questions which every new user faces, and here comes the rep-flood. Btw. you're only place 3 this year, it seems...

@Skillmon I wasn't here really from the start I answered one question early on but then was more or less a year before I started (by which time egreg had already answered every missing % question) but anyway I said to compare with Gonzalo not me, he's still in the top 10 for this year and 4th overall and it's three and a half years since he was on site.

@Skillmon @barbarabeeton would complain about comma placement (she is so picky about these things)

@DavidCarlisle yeah, sure, @barbarabeeton. Not some Brit bloke who fancies ducks for dinner.

Hello, @Rmano!

@DavidCarlisle The "you" in the first half of that message was the unpersonal "you" meaning anybody. Only the last sentence was really meant as "you" as in 2nd person singular speech. So, I did compare that with Gonzalo.

@Skillmon Sie sollten kein Englisch verwenden, es ist Müll bei solchen Unterscheidungen

@DavidCarlisle What would've been better formulation to make this clear? (in German we have another word for the unpersonal "you", "man", so I'm not sure how to best express that in English)

@Skillmon see my previous comment:-)

@DavidCarlisle well, in a face to face scenario, or even just with verbal communication, it would've been more clear because of the emphasises. But as always written communication has its drawbacks.

@Skillmon actually without your final sentence (that was clearly referring to me) i would have read it in context as "you" being impersonal, referring to Gonzalo, but with the two together I interpreted you the same way in both sentences.

@DavidCarlisle That's why I put "Btw." before the last sentence, in the hopes this would make this clear :(

@Skillmon no harm done, unlike the typographical damage done with a mis-centred comma

@Skillmon Hi!

@DavidCarlisle oh, it's "impersonal" not "unpersonal" (English is strange, well German as well, but in German I know when which negating prefix applies)

@DavidCarlisle typographically it is bad to use a comma there in the first place.

@DavidCarlisle but I guess @barbarabeeton would complain about a misplaced thinspace as well :)

@Skillmon I agree. I have a signal generator in the labs that says 5.000,000 Hz for 5 Hz and that confuses the hell out of the students... (read it in Spanish and it's 5000 Hz)

@Skillmon I think the prefix is just randomly chosen to make English seem hard to learn although I found this site that claims to almost have some rule to it lawlessenglish.com/learn-english/grammar/negative-prefixes

@Rmano with German conventions it's 5 kHz as well.

@DavidCarlisle anyone claiming to have found rules for the English language clearly has no idea about the English language!

@DavidCarlisle That's language history for you. Worst thing that could ever happen to a language is language users XD

@Plergux and that's why I like Latin!

@Rmano It's the same in Icelandic. 1,5 and 1.500.

(jokes aside, I like Latin, though my vocabulary is close to non-existant, or nonexistant? or inexistant? or disexistant? or unexistant?)

@Skillmon non-existent :-)

@Plergux btw. is XD the contraction of XKCD?

@DavidCarlisle sooo close :(

(we randomly choose suffixes as well as prefixes:-)

@DavidCarlisle my English spelling really turned bad. I'm spending too much time with teh @DavidCarlisle

@Plergux really the traditional way here in Spain was to use a "raised comma", something like 3'14 --- but it changed with the introduction of computers. Elder people (e.g. my in-laws) still use it.

And the usage is not language-related, but region-related. For example, in México they use the decimal point like in the US.

@Rmano well, I've heard that according to some people in the US, Mexico is the only Spanish speaking country.

@Skillmon transparency bug --- they can't see through ;-P

Look at the table en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Decimal_separator (in Examples of use)... what a mess!

@Skillmon XD I don't know, I'm not very good at logic :p I only use it when I forget that in Icelandic context it can also mean "vote Conservative"... :l

All good COVID fun here ....

@JosephWright what happened?

@UlrikeFischer bbc.co.uk/news/education-54887526

I am a bit confused by ltshipout-doc. How do I have to replace \AtBeginShipout{\AtBeginShipoutAddToBoxForeground{...}} and \AtBeginShipout{\AtBeginShipoutUpperLeft{...}} with the new hooks management commands?

@Rmano LOL, WTF Romania?! :D

quack

@Plergux Romania? That one doesn't look so bad. The Chinese seem weird, though.

@DavidCarlisle stop posting the same stuff as comments as I do only seconds faster :(

@Skillmon stop being so slow

@UlrikeFischer there was a virus

@AlexG assuming that you want to add a special, you want probably \AddToHook{shipout/background}{\put(0,0){something}}

@UlrikeFischer picture mode takeover

@DavidCarlisle my comment is longer, so it's only natural that mine took longer to compose.

@DavidCarlisle why takeover? Wasn't it always the way to go?

@DavidCarlisle wasn't that the cunning plan?

@Skillmon amongst the discerning yes, but the commoners used AtBeginShipoutAddToBoxForeground, but now it's picture mode for all, the new democratic era

@UlrikeFischer Ok, so there is no such nesting of \AtBeginShipout... necessary as it used to be with atbegshi?

@AlexG no this hook is in a box (a picture) and it automatically inserted in the shipout.

@AlexG Nope: that was all rather barqoue

@UlrikeFischer Alright, thank you.

@JosephWright Yes, it always looked weird to me as well.

@AlexG We worked pretty hard to clean up here

@AlexG I hope you are liking the new facilities!

@JosephWright Yes, I am aware of this and appreciate it very much. Also your fixing the longstanding boxlevel-related bug in atenddvi.

@AlexG Closed! ;-)

@UlrikeFischer Hooray!

@UlrikeFischer :)

@Skillmon You mean the last one based on powers of 10.000? ;p

@Plergux hi sheep person

@PauloCereda Hi duck person! :D

@Plergux Yeah, that's funny. Easier than the Indian one, though. I see the only reasonable one the SI variants (we have U+202F   NARROW NO-BREAK SPACE for this, fortunately)

Here is a new one from the manuscript I'm cleaning when I need a break: \mathrm{\QTR{mathrm}{d}}, \QTR is apparently a macro from tcilatex and this use is the same as \mathrm{d}, so we now have \mathrm{\mathrm{d}} .... why?!?!

@Rmano We have siunitx for this, fortunately :)

@Skillmon yessss

@AlexG FYI stackoverflow.com/questions/64787733/…

@samcarter_preparing_for_xmas Done: stackoverflow.com/a/64789038/1878550

@AlexG Thanks a lot! The OP already asked this a week ago and I tried to migrate it to somewhere you might see it, but a mod closed it as "needs details or clarity" instead and the OP had to post again :(

@samcarter_preparing_for_xmas Yes, I remember you told it at that time.

migration is utterly broken :(

@samcarter_preparing_for_xmas hm, what happened?

@PauloCereda I think the basic problem is not enough reviewers on stackoverflow. So votes for migration will either simply age away or a mod is mass closing everything as "needs details or clarity", even though a question has a MWE and is clearly phrased. Neither helps the OP getting an answer...

@samcarter_preparing_for_xmas oh my

@PauloCereda ... and in addition this "the winner takes it all" approach in the close notice will then show my name as one of the users that closed as "needs details or clarity" :( Even mods get fooled by this display.

@samcarter_preparing_for_xmas :(

@Skillmon -- barbara beeton is totally sympathetic with the problems of commas. But right now, she is kind of hampered by the fact that her new laptop has a busted fan and overheats and makes a lot of noise. She is waiting for a service tech to call. Sigh. But congrats on your palindrome. (Maybe I'll get another one sometime ...)

@DavidCarlisle -- but some style guides say a hyphen isn't necessary, so "nonexistent".

@daleif -- Why? Because tcilatex should be put out to pasture, but the folks who instigated it don't pay attention to such niceties.

@samcarter_preparing_for_xmas -- That association of the 5th person voting to close as the "latest updater" is a bummer. I sometimes avoid closing such a problem question if I see mine will be the deciding vote, and I'm not absolutely certain it's a duplicate. This system leaves much to be desired.

That's so misleading!

@barbarabeeton talked to a colleague from economics today, he was also quite tired of the code from swp. Swp seems quite common in economics

Note, he did not use swp, but collaborators do

@samcarter_preparing_for_xmas say, the company for the users or the users for the company.

@samcarter_preparing_for_xmas when I see a question which belongs to some other place (regardless if in sx or somewhere else) I don't try to solve this with a vote, I leave a comment "better ask there ..." and let the OP handle it. I use votes only for duplicates, as there is a clear and wanted effect to link to the other question.

@UlrikeFischer migrated questions have the advantage, they will automatically redirect to the new site. With comments the stubs keep lying around and future users with the same problem will have trouble to find the answer from there.

@samcarter_preparing_for_xmas yes, I see the point in migrating, but I let the user trigger it. They can flag mods and ask for it, can't they?

@yo' The new slogan seems to be the site to "get unstuck" meta.stackexchange.com/questions/355416/… - removing the community and all their drama makes it much easier. The question is then just who gets them unstuck?

@samcarter_preparing_for_xmas yep, and who points them to the brilliant answers to their questions that already are on the website most of the time?

@yo' Just these dispensable 0.015% - who needs them anyway?

@samcarter_preparing_for_xmas right

(I have to confess I'm not one of them recently. As I'm invoilved with one of the important companies in the business, I refrain from heavy moderation as I'm probably quite biased.)

@yo' I am sort of borderline done for SE and SO...

@PauloCereda well, if you saw my activity over the last year, you'd find out it's mostly just on Overleaf-related business.

I wonder when they kick us all out of this chat room :D

@yo' :)

@yo' I don't think they remember that chatrooms exist, so could be a while :D

@samcarter_preparing_for_xmas :)

@yo' In my imagination their chat server looks like this: i.redd.it/addgclv9l6j41.jpg

@UlrikeFischer -- If the question should be migrated, I flag it, especially if it's brand new, and then hope a mod is around. By then, others have usually commented.

@UlrikeFischer -- A newbie may not realize that it's possible to flag to get a moderator's attention. That's why I do it instead. It usually gets the requested action, but not always. (Sometimes I suspect the mods may be tired of my nagging.)

@barbarabeeton well if the newbie doesn't know how flag, then a comment "flag the mod to migrate it" is imho better than a silent flag. I avoid to express my intentions through clicks on buttons. If I think a question is bad or need migration or something else, I don't vote, but add a comment.

\def\test#1{\openin1=#1 %
  \ifeof1 \typeout{>> (#1) false}
  \else   \typeout{>> (#1) true}
  \fi \closein1 }
\test{}
\test{""}
\test{\jobname}
\test{"\jobname"}
\stop

>> () false
>> ("") true
>> (test) true
>> ("test") true

@DavidCarlisle Regarding the empty file question: do you know why a quoted empty file name exists, but an unquoted one doesn't?

@DavidCarlisle If I run with -recorder it says the queried file is .tex in both cases...

@PhelypeOleinik don't complicate the message with tested reality

@DavidCarlisle :)

@DavidCarlisle It seems like some oddity in the implementation of quoted/unquoted name. I could look the source, but last time I went there it was not fun :)

@DavidCarlisle There is a challenging new question for the creator of the awesome LaTeX plane: tex.stackexchange.com/questions/570484/…

\documentclass{article}
\begin{document}
\begin{picture}(100,100)
\thicklines
\put(100,20){\line(0,1){50}}
\thinlines
\put(103,93){\circle{10}}\put(102,92){\circle{20}}
\put(101,91){\circle{30}}\put(100,90){\circle{35}}
\put(115,30){\oval(30,10){}}\put(85,35){\oval(30,10){}}
\put(115,40){\oval(30,10){}}\put(85,45){\oval(30,10){}}
\end{picture}
\end{document}

@Skillmon ^^^

@PhelypeOleinik already proposed a very inferior solution in comments

@DavidCarlisle You clearly managed capture the "the simplicity [...] of a simple uncomplicated sketch"

@DavidCarlisle you have my vote!

@samcarter_preparing_for_xmas true artists can adapt to a variety of design specs.

@DavidCarlisle Picasso calling?

\documentclass{standalone}

\usepackage{tikz}

\begin{document}

\begin{tikzpicture}
\draw[green!50!brown,line width=0.4pt] (-0.01,0.3) arc [start angle=-15, end angle=30, radius=0.7];
\fill[green!50!brown] (-0.1377, 0.7384) .. controls (-0.1775, 0.5828) and (-0.1479, 0.4649) .. (0.0072, 0.4246) .. controls (0.0570, 0.5636) and (-0.1529, 0.6447) .. (-0.1377, 0.7384) -- cycle;
\fill[green!50!brown] (0.1527, 0.7334) .. controls (0.1925, 0.5778) and (0.1629, 0.4599) .. (0.0178, 0.4196) .. controls (-0.0420, 0.5586) and (0.1679, 0.6397) .. (0.1527, 0.7334) -- cycle;

@samcarter_preparing_for_xmas looks more like a red daisy than a true rose shape as in my version, but good attempt.

Is anybody having problems with arara?

@DavidCarlisle Just a beginner - have still to learn the important things :)

@cfr CFR!!!!

@PauloCereda she is here!

@cfr Welcome!!!!

@samcarter_preparing_for_xmas Thank you so much.

@cfr Welcome back!

@cfr everyone? (@PauloCereda)

@cfr We missed you a lot!

@Skillmon Thank you, really. @samcarter_preparing_for_xmas That's very nice for you to say.

Things have been ... difficult, let's say.

@cfr ooh no, I hope you're well now!

@cfr Sorry to hear! I'll keep my fingers crossed that things will get better for you!

@Skillmon I'm OK, but my father was very ill. He is doing better now. We just have to keep him from getting the virus.

@samcarter_preparing_for_xmas Thank you. I'm good at avoiding things and not so good at dealing with them sometimes!

I seem to have broken arara.

@cfr in that case, all the best for your father and family! Stupid virus :(

@Skillmon Indeed. Thank you. The problem, I guess is that stupid things at the micro level can do clever dastardly things at the macro :(.

Though I don't think the virus broke arara. Probably.

@cfr Then do what you can best and avoid the virus :)

@cfr Unfortunately, I can't help you with that. I've never used it (but don't tell @PauloCereda)

@daleif That tcilatex file is only needed when you compile the document from SWP (TrueTeX). If the file was created with SWP5.5 it is better to export it as a standard LaTeX document and then apply the cleanup (there you remove a lot of unuseful macros)

@cfr What symptoms does the broken arara show? Fever? Coughing?

Exception in thread "main" java.lang.UnsupportedClassVersionError: org/islandoftex/arara/Arara : Unsupported major.minor version 52.0
        at java.lang.ClassLoader.defineClass1(Native Method)
        at java.lang.ClassLoader.defineClass(ClassLoader.java:808)
        at java.security.SecureClassLoader.defineClass(SecureClassLoader.java:142)
        at java.net.URLClassLoader.defineClass(URLClassLoader.java:443)
        at java.net.URLClassLoader.access$100(URLClassLoader.java:65)
        at java.net.URLClassLoader$1.run(URLClassLoader.java:355)

@samcarter_preparing_for_xmas A lot of coughing, but it isn't a dry cough, so I think it doesn't need a test. ^^

@samcarter_preparing_for_xmas I've heard that losing taste is one of the most clear symptoms.

@Skillmon It's definitely lost its aesthetic sense: how can it not like my java?

@cfr any Java update recently?

@cfr mmm, might need a consult of doctor @PauloCereda

@Skillmon Yes, but I can't work out what version it needs. The manual says OpenJDK 8-13 and I've got jre7-openjdk 7.u261_2.6.22-1, which looks too old. But it's inconceivable a recently updated Arch Linux has too old a version, so I think I don't understand the versioning. (Java always confuses me with its jars & JDK & JRE & js).

@samcarter_preparing_for_xmas I'm afraid you are probably right.

@cfr oh, Arch supports concurrently using different versions of Java

@cfr can you show the result of archlinux-java status?

Available Java environments:
  java-7-openjdk/jre (default)

@cfr Mmmm see (stackoverflow.com/a/32178062/1072121) I had the same problem some time ago because I was playing with the java versions :(

@Skillmon ^^

@DavidCarlisle Yes, a lazy solution indeed. Nothing compares to your artwork ;-)

@PhelypeOleinik Hola :D

@cfr install another version with pacman, e.g., for version 8 run pacman -Syu jre8-openjdk

@PabloGonzálezL Hi Pablo :) How are you doing?

@PhelypeOleinik You know, with my new sport, answering emails to parents :)

@Skillmon Thanks. Trying that now.

@cfr afterwards run archlinux-java status again to see the available versions' name and then run archlinux-java set <name of version> e.g., for v8 again: archlinux-java set java-8-openjdk.

@PabloGonzálezL Loads of fun, I imagine ;-)

@cfr after that arara should work (but that's all advanced guesswork I'm doing here...)

@PhelypeOleinik Jejej, are you thinking of dedicating yourself to the art of drawing (no picture mode @DavidCarlisle) using 'l3draw' :)

@Skillmon Thanks, I'm sure you're right. At least, I'm sure this is a problem. I didn't know I was running a particular version of java. I thought old versions of stuff ended up in AUR. Clearly not!

@PabloGonzálezL Nah, I'm no good at pretty stuff. I'll focus on fixing \usepackage that I broke ;-)

@PabloGonzálezL The good thing is that LaTeX is awesome as it is and people often don't need \usepackage ;-)

@cfr not in the case of java, as different java projects require different (and sometimes quite antiquated) versions of the runtime, so I guess it's best to have them all actively maintained in extra. And since Arch comes with a somewhat convenient way to switch between Java versions, I guess it makes even more sense.

@PhelypeOleinik Nothing like trying to repair what was already repaired after being repaired:)

@PabloGonzálezL That sums it up pretty well :P

@PhelypeOleinik I think this will be a memorable year oberdiek+hooks+dev=:/

@PabloGonzálezL Lucky us The Big Oberdiek Split™ was last year!

@PhelypeOleinik Hehe...there are always remnants for that sword :)

@cfr -- We're all very glad to have you back. Hope things get better.

@barbarabeeton Thank you. Once I installed TL2020, there was not going to be any escape!

@Skillmon Thanks. That's useful. I was surprised when I searched after an earlier comment and saw how many there are.

@cfr is it working now?

@cfr HI!

@cfr I MISS YOU <3

@cfr Yes, from version 5 on, we now rely on Java 8...

@cfr deeply sorry for the trouble. We have to raise the version bar, otherwise we would be stuck in a very old Java version (for comparison, the latest Java version is now 15.0).

[paulo@cambridge ~] $ java -version
openjdk version "15.0.1" 2020-10-20
OpenJDK Runtime Environment 20.9 (build 15.0.1+9)
OpenJDK 64-Bit Server VM 20.9 (build 15.0.1+9, mixed mode, sharing)

arara runs on Java 8+

Oh I miss cfr... :(

@cfr all the best for your father, for you and also for Lucy! We miss you a lot! <3

@PauloCereda you've done well :)

@Skillmon thanks for helping her, mr. rabbit!

However, nighty nighty to everyone! @cfr it was nice "seeing" you :)

Hello guys being far from Latex fro a while, which package is still updated and future proof to use it for cv? ctan.org/topic/cv

@Skillmon good night mr. rabbit! And to your family too!

I used to use moderncv with moderntimeline

ooh hi mr. C++ pacman :)

hehe hi :)

@Cfun I usually take a minimalist approach to CV's and use vanilla article for them. I am sure @JosephWright has a blogpost about it... Anyway, in this year's GuIT meeting, there was a nice presentation about a CV class named europasscv: ctan.org/pkg/europasscv

@Cfun moderncv still seems popular, browse the cv tag here, top voted question is a comparison:

@Cfun last time I made a CV I used article class as @PauloCereda suggested (but I have been in this job 22 years so it's been a while since I needed a CV:-)

Thanks both I will take a look thing is that I didn't find enough examples/samples for moderntimeline

@DavidCarlisle yea I remember I always see your name around here and there since the time, good to see you are here :)

@Cfun we probably never left. :)

Legends will never leave sure. I really miss Latex world, but I am happy my old cv is still compiling without a single error after few years ago :) (it's all about compilation for pacman :p)