I just got a simple kvoptions example working! This is a great day for me!

@DavidCarlisle ooh

There are rumours of another lockdown...

@PauloCereda here, too

@CarLaTeX ouch

@AlanMunn you can also define a command to create a letter comma, e.g.

\ExplSyntaxOn
\edef\commaspace{\char_generate:nn {44} {11}\c_space_tl}
\ExplSyntaxOff
\includepdf{foo - bar - Oct 23\commaspace 2020.pdf}

@UlrikeFischer The newest commits in luotfload implement the Default case mapping algorithms in Unicode for upper and lowercase completely. (So Greek accents are still not handled, but the final sigma, Lithuanian and Turkish should work now. ) (Requires the git version of unicode-data, therefore Travis is very upset right now)

@MarcelKrüger if I understood @JosephWright correctly some of the greek stuff is not in unicode, but he used ICU as reference. Do I need to download the unicode-data stuff manually?

@UlrikeFischer Right, that's why it's not done yet: I started with Unicode before continuing with the crazy stuff... Yes, currently you have to install unicode-data manually (or just copy github.com/latex3/unicode-data/blob/master/… into an appropriate directory) but if @JosephWright doesn't want to add anything there I will send the new unicode-data to CTAN lter today.

@Skillmon Alright, so what's the alternative?

@MarcelKrüger oh, if it is already in our repo, then it is easy.

@MarcelKrüger how do one "activate" Turkish? Joseph had the example \text_uppercase:nn {tr} {Hulûsi} which adds a dot in the final I, but I don't see how to get this. Do one need a font which explicitly supports turkish?

oh no, flatpak

@UlrikeFischer It uses the "language" "feature". In current fontspec versions this only be forwarded to luaotfload if the font supports Turkish, but since the latest luaotfload commit the node shaper automatically falls back to the default language, so I hope that after the next luaotfload release we can get a change into fontspec to always forward this.

Until then, loading the font without fontspec or maybe RawFeature={language=trk} should work.

@MarcelKrüger it naturally helps if one uses the right key ;-) I had only tried lang=trk with language=trk it works.

@UlrikeFischer @PhelypeOleinik github.com/davidcarlisle/dpctex/tree/master/mylatex

@DavidCarlisle is the test \ifx\@execute@begin@hook\@undefined needed? I mean if is not defined it should matter much what you do here?

@UlrikeFischer I was thinking it might be clearer with it there but possibly not. It does avoid defining the csname in case anything else is testing for it but that seems unlikely

@DavidCarlisle well if you test, perhaps someone else would do it to, so keeping it undefined is perhaps better.

@UlrikeFischer note it's not me doing the test I have made sure to document any blame goes to @PhelypeOleinik

@DavidCarlisle do you need someone to test the new version?

@DavidCarlisle Oh, cool :-)

@UlrikeFischer well the original people on the maxima list confirmed it worked in old and new formats respectively, and it worked for a couple of test cases I tried so it's probaby safe enough, and anyway we can blame @PhelypeOleinik if not. I'm splitting it at the ctan level I am just wondering if I want to use your sword on the dpctex github repo but that may be too many changes for this morning.

@DavidCarlisle oh, you could perhaps document the windows command: I now found out that I have to excape the & with ^: pdftex -ini ^&pdflatex mylatex.ltx file

@UlrikeFischer Doesn't quoting the & work? Like pdftex -ini "&pdflatex" mylatex.ltx file

@UlrikeFischer OK will do that (is that miktex and texlive, ie a windows cmd comandline feature?)

@PhelypeOleinik quotes in the cmd syntax are... painful:-)

@PhelypeOleinik yes, that works too.

@PhelypeOleinik quotes in the cmd syntax are... painful:-)

@DavidCarlisle There, fixed ^^^

I suppose I could mention that there is no command called initex these days as well...

@DavidCarlisle it seems to be a cmd/batch feature, it works for me in miktex and texlive.

I think I need to keep that paragraph on oztex though, got to keep mac users like @JosephWright informed.

@UlrikeFischer @PhelypeOleinik github.com/davidcarlisle/dpctex/commit/…

pdflates

@DavidCarlisle teh tpyos :)

@PhelypeOleinik I can blame you

@samcarter_is_at_topanswers.xyz ooh bits of TikZ

@DavidCarlisle Drat!

@PhelypeOleinik see the documented proof in the starred comment on the right

@DavidCarlisle That @Skillmon bloke turned me in :(

@DavidCarlisle We should blame him instead

@PhelypeOleinik getting too complicated, just blame @UlrikeFischer

You win or you bug

@PhelypeOleinik ooh House of Carlisle

@PhelypeOleinik see Canageek's comment: naturally I win:-)

@DavidCarlisle Going well! Next step: deity :)

@PauloCereda ducks are very good at stalking :D I thought about collecting the cupcakes and doughnuts there :)

@samcarter_is_at_topanswers.xyz ooh

@PauloCereda maybe also some cookies?

@samcarter_is_at_topanswers.xyz ooh

@PauloCereda said Paulister of the House of Ceredaly Rock, with the sigil of a golden duck on a field of crimson, having the official motto "Hear My Ooh!" and the inofficial one "A Paulister always finishes his PhD".

@StefanKottwitz ooh the plot thickens

@PauloCereda \plot [thick] \equiv air [thin]

ooh

@PauloCereda how is it @ ~/, U+2200 U+2713 ?

@StefanKottwitz we are fine, thank you. <3 Expect a poking later on today. :)

@PauloCereda here in Hamburg it goes uphill

@StefanKottwitz oh sorry to hear... the situation here is terrible as well, we are about to enter lockdown again... also, there's been a rumour the president veto'ed one of the vacinnes to be used...

@PauloCereda the only vaccines so far come from Russia and China -- do you wish to trust these?

@yo' no...

Also, our healthcare system is about to break down. And our politicians -- in particular the Minister of Health -- set an example by blatantly breaching any lockdown rules. You love this country.

@yo' The German minister of health got COVID-19

@yo' oh my, sorry to hear :(

@StefanKottwitz oh fingers crossed

@DavidCarlisle don't you need "&pdflatex" instead of "&latex" if you want to extend pdflatex/s?

@UlrikeFischer oh grr

@UlrikeFischer that's what comes of trying to be modern and 21st century

@DavidCarlisle you could add some instructions for lualatex that would be avant garde ;-)

@UlrikeFischer Thanks.

@UlrikeFischer "don't try to dump lua state or opentype fonts"

@FakeMod unfortunately I don't know any, but as long as menukeys loads catoptions it is problematic. catoptions did evil things and wasn't really compatible with LaTeX and many packages anyways, it just finally broke with the kernel updates of 2020-10-01. The culprit really isn't menukeys.

@UlrikeFischer Well, with some code restructuring and perhaps a few twists and turns here and there I could switch to interface3 and get rid of that happy macro.

@PhelypeOleinik I'm not even part of the team, you can't blame me!

@Skillmon well the author of menukeys knows since quite a long time that catoptions is dubious and clashing. And if you look at the tex.sx link in the docu, you can see that he also got a suggestion for an expl3 implementation. It was his decision to use catoptions instead.

@Skillmon I'd like to fulfill your license. Can we meet @MUC for that?

@StefanKottwitz You mean the airport? That seems too far for that.

@Skillmon I could do @NUE (flights unchecked)

ooh FRA

@StefanKottwitz That would still be an hour, but seems like a better idea :)

@StefanKottwitz When do you travel back to Germany?

@Skillmon @I'm @CGN every week, are you near sometimes?

@StefanKottwitz Not really, I'm living in Bayreuth and when I'm visiting my parents I'm near Kassel. But I don't travel much in Germany else.

@Skillmon I'm double employed by 2 airlines, and before my burnout, I'd like to meet you near some airport. @NUE sounds good! Send me a message whatever way you like?

@Skillmon I owe you a beer.

@StefanKottwitz I honestly hope you don't have any burnout!

@StefanKottwitz you don't owe me anything, that's not the message of the license :) But if you want to meet we can try to arrange it (and then you're free to buy me one if you think anything was worth it).

@Skillmon Sometimes close to it. Can easily happen to anyone when self employed or being a consultant or at a service provider.

@StefanKottwitz you got mail.

ooh beer

@Skillmon Thanks, I got it!

@Skillmon It's just, talking to people, as long as it's possible, better not postpone it, get to know each other. I took the beer license as a pretext to meet you.

@StefanKottwitz unnecessarily complicated :) You could've just asked how we could meet. Further communication regarding this via mail?

@Skillmon I don't take the easy way (I never try looking at registration mail addresses, for privacy) but I got your mail now, thanks!

@StefanKottwitz Which is much appreciated, that "unnecessarily complicated" wasn't related to contacting me here or misusing the registration but starting the documentation with the beer license.

@Skillmon beer is a good start

@Skillmon I'll bring you a real beer and I'll find a way!

@StefanKottwitz oh, that "documentation" should've been conversation. I think I'm a bit damaged from writing too much package documentation...

@Skillmon ooh documentation

@PauloCereda yeah, I devolved, from writing duckumentation to documentation.

@Skillmon oh

@PauloCereda call it doohcumentation

@StefanKottwitz "teh doohcumentation"

@UlrikeFischer David and Paulo write it together?

@CarLaTeX Before C lockdown, I'd like to be in Italy a day. Would you like to send me an email so we could meet perhaps?

@MarcelKrüger I get test failures with xelatex in the pdfresource repo, because xelatex seems to no longer add a CIDset entry to the font. Do you think they did this by purpose?

@UlrikeFischer Are you creating PDF 2.0 files? There was an intentional change recently to only add CIDSets for older PDF versions.

@MarcelKrüger no 1.5. if I compile this I see no cidset entry:

@UlrikeFischer TeXLive, MikTeX, or a custom dvipdfmx?

@MarcelKrüger texlive 2020, but probabyl a rather new dvipdfmx (as Akira update during the year)

@UlrikeFischer The conditionals are inverted, the CIDSet's are only created when generating at least version 2.0. I'm pretty sure that that's a bug.

@StefanKottwitz It's not a good period for meeting :'( Anyway, you could use prof. van Duck's email address to contact me, you can find it on his articles

@MarcelKrüger you are right with 2.0 it is there again. I will set a message to the dvipdfmx list.

@CarLaTeX Thanks I will check the address in the TUGboat! Yes, it's a dark period, that's why I really like to see friends before it's too late.

I do homeoffice, nobody notices if I fly to Italy and back in a day.

I'm usually in Monfalcone, Marghera (Venice), Sestri Ponente (Genoa), Ancona, Naples, nowadays not for work but for meeting friends.

@StefanKottwitz I'm in Milan, but it's not safe to travel nowadays

@CarLaTeX That's @MXP and I can be there easily and safely, I'll let yo know.

The pandemic is a death threat. Before that, I'd like to meet some people in person or on video.

@StefanKottwitz Better on video, via zoom or similar :) youtube.com/watch?v=yKEcd86zvaQ

@CarLaTeX She is very good. She also gave a very good explanation to us Germans (I don't have a link)

I saw a perfectly clear and understandable explanation by her, about what we need to do, seeing she is a scientist and not just a politician.

@StefanKottwitz Yes, I know she's a scientist, Italian politicians are on average of a lower intellectual level

@CarLaTeX In general, I guess that politicians grasp it but some may play a power game for reign and ruling :-(

@PauloCereda I got your poke but not sure if I respond to yes or to nicetotalk :-D anyway it's weekend.

metafilter.com/189158/Efficient-text-editing-on-a-PDP-10

"So I started to dig around in the SAILDART archives, and quickly found Donald Knuth’s TeX working directory, because this actually was the system TeX initially was developed on! Not only the early TeX78 can be found there (look for the TEX*.SAI files), but also the source code of TeX82, written in literate Pascal, which essentially still is the core of today’s TeX setups. 1400 words from Leah Neukirchen on some deep UNIX roots."

@PauloCereda You just got noise above, I removed it.