@UlrikeFischer Yes, I was slightly lazy with crating new objects every time. Part of that thinking though was to test how things would behave as I changed the font size. The check boxes don't scale automagically once the xform objects are created.

@UlrikeFischer, your test PDF is a bit flaky with Evince. It doesn't like the linked check boxes much.

@DavidPurton What happens?

@JosephWright @UlrikeFischer vergleichen und gegenüberstellen this or this

@cis I created a repository so that we can have feature requests in the issue tracker, so that we can keep an overview: github.com/Skillmon/ltx_quack

@Skillmonlikestopanswers.xyz ^^

@DavidCarlisle is that again a complaint that I didn't ping you as well? :)

@Skillmonlikestopanswers.xyz no:-) the ^^ was pointing at my comment, where I didn't ping you :-)

@DavidCarlisle I guessed as much :)

@Skillmonlikestopanswers.xyz I know:-)

@DavidCarlisle I have a small complaint: Can we have the numbers in the ToC right aligned so that we get a balanced look? The em-dash is wiggling.

@Skillmonlikestopanswers.xyz well yes but the plan is for the whole site to have some professional web design applied anyway so not too much done on styling, currently the single digits get a space so I doubt many people notice it's a bit out, I could use a figure-space which should be same as a digit but I wasn't sure all systems treated that well

@Skillmonlikestopanswers.xyz the actual question is should it be like that with the top level english or should the en version be brought down to match the fr with just some general language switcher at the top or should the en toc be mirrored at the top level and at /en (which is currently 404) or ...

@DavidCarlisle Excellent!

@JosephWright see question in comment above though

@DavidCarlisle forgot about that... It's not too annoying, I guess.

@Skillmonlikestopanswers.xyz I doubt many people will see that it is out of line

@DavidCarlisle the doubled heading in the French version's landing page, once as h1 and once as h2 is a bit strange.

@DavidCarlisle on my machine it's a bit worse.

@Skillmonlikestopanswers.xyz ah some of the special casing for the top level has been dropped (as /fr isn't the top level:-) I'll fix

@Skillmonlikestopanswers.xyz css just isn't quite the same as positioning things exactly with latex picture mode :(

@yo' in the end I removed the %!TEX comment before submitting then it works see the lualtex example here davidcarlisle.github.io/ll/en/more-14 at some point I may make a simpler html example without all the jekyll markdown pre-processing happening here but even as it is it's fine and a big improvement on the site I think to submit real multi-file projects.

@DavidCarlisle we should create the page with one of the LaTeX -> HTML converters... If it supports picture mode.

@Skillmonlikestopanswers.xyz unfortunately the static jekyll page generator wouldn't allow generating a latex document on the fly then running htlatex on it to get the table of contents, otherwise naturally we'd do that

@DavidCarlisle I'm not quite sure where I should look at. The french version has a bit overwhelming titles but apart from this what are the differences? My husband started the translation in german: Velcome to learnlatex.org! And he spotted a typo on the introduction ("we have therefore including"). How is the policy now to correct such things?

@UlrikeFischer typos as direct push currently.

@UlrikeFischer I am confident that the translations are perfect I used an infallible source:-) But actually main question is what do do with davidcarlisle.github.io/ll/en should the only english toc be there or should english continue to be promoted to the top level (or should it appear in both places) should there be cross links at the lesson level to translations those sorts of things.

@JosephWright @UlrikeFischer also, if the site mechanics are working but the translation is just 4 or 5 of the lessons auto-translated should I move it to learnlatex.org or leave it at the ll copy until real translations are in place.

quack

@PauloCereda petit déjeuner

@DavidCarlisle ooh French

I mean

oh no

@DavidCarlisle well at the end I would say there should be a pop-up menu for language switches at the top of every page - we don't know how people will reach the site.

@PauloCereda naturally as I am fluent in the language

@DavidCarlisle ooh

@UlrikeFischer yes I was thinking that, but then en only has language-01 but french has language-1,2,3 (which I added to think about exactly this question) so for some pages switching needs to be disabled or switch you to the table of contents or something

@Skillmonlikestopanswers.xyz ooh secret rabbit repository

@PauloCereda stop using copyrighted terms!

@Skillmonlikestopanswers.xyz oh

/non-copyrighted duck sounds

@Skillmonlikestopanswers.xyz ^^

@PauloCereda :)

@DavidCarlisle I see I hadn't look at the end. What about an common introduction page "language specific lessons" with a mini toc there? Then the switch can always go to this page for the language lessons.

@UlrikeFischer something like that,

@DavidPurton xform are like images. So if you want to get a content with a different font size you really need to create a new one. But in most cases it is imho unnecessary and so shouldn't be done by default. You can quite easily scale them by enlarging the annotation:

@JosephWright do we have somewhere something like a \dim_scale command? \dim_scale:Nnn dim {factor}{dim expression}? Or how would you do this?

@UlrikeFischer ooh

@UlrikeFischer No, nothing like that at the moment

@UlrikeFischer That's just \dim_eval:n { <factor> * <dim-expr> } isn't it?

@JosephWright \dim_set:Nn \l_tmpa_dim {2*\dim_max:nn {10pt}{15pt}} errors. \dim_set:Nn \l_tmpa_dim {\dim_max:nn {10pt}{15pt}*2} works, but \dim_set:Nn \l_tmpa_dim {\dim_max:nn {10pt}{15pt}*0.5} multiplies with zero and leaves the .5 in stream. It is a pain ....

@UlrikeFischer Well yes, e-TeX dimension expression syntax is 'interesting'

@UlrikeFischer We could add a simple scaling, which would come down to <factor>\dimexpr<expr>\relax

@JosephWright I would like a dedicated function \dim_scale or \dim_add_factor or whatever. It would make it much easier to define and use scale factors in commands.

@DavidCarlisle That I'm still wondering about: I imagine we might want a 'generic' index.html and say there that one can pick different languages. But at the same time, I'm reluctant to loose the current content of the index: I think just saying 'pick a language' is too vague

@UlrikeFischer One for the team list I guess

@DavidCarlisle I'd avoid mechanical translations: we don't want to put people off with half-done stuff in that regard

@DavidCarlisle I'm not sure how other people handle multi-lingual websites. We can restructure if we need to, so for the moment I'd go with the 'vanilla' site being in English and we can add explicit translations, then deal later with any rearrangement

@JosephWright yes I was wondering about havingthe english one where it is now and just adding a redirect page as the index for /en that bounces you up a level

@JosephWright Or should I add an issue?

@JosephWright yes I was wary of putting the google translate version on the .org site. But I could set it up there anyway with the /fr version being a copy of the english or just leave it all at ll until there is a real translation?

@DavidCarlisle bonjour

@UlrikeFischer Sure

@DavidCarlisle Sounds like a plan to me

@DavidCarlisle I'm still not sure about the 'look': really I think translations need to be led by people who are going to be able to carry them through, and that means native speakers

@JosephWright yes agreed but if we can get the site mechanics more or less plausible then it's easier for people to work on translations so I need something to test Originally I was testing with just a copy of the english text but then its easy to get confused which page you are on. google translate may have messed up the french but it actually did a pretty good job of not messing up the markdown so getting a few pages to look more or less french and work is useful for testing

@UlrikeFischer With Evince your linked check boxes do not link. Although on one occasion at least it got confused and one got stuck on and I couldn't uncheck it

@UlrikeFischer How did you scale the bear? It seems like I missed something when repairing the scaling of the mouth.

@UlrikeFischer OK, that's cool. My code sized the check box from the xform rather than the other way round, which it should be

@DavidPurton what happens if you create such groups with your code (by using identical names)? Can evince handle this? (I will be away in the afternoon, so won't be able to look more)

@samcarter_is_at_topanswers.xyz ooh bear tricks

@DavidCarlisle Perhaps put it in a branch that's explicitly about how to set up translations? So it doesn't show live, and we can put in an issue about translation

@JosephWright easier to keep it at ll :-) as all the weirdness is getting stuff through the liquid templating and that only testable on the main branch unless I install it all locally. I'll do that but probably move the scripting (and /en redirect) over to learnlatex.org at points where it seems stable.

@samcarter_is_at_topanswers.xyz no, that is only an artifact from the screenshot. In the pdf it is fine.

@DavidCarlisle when I read such sentences I quite feel with people confused about latex. What on earth is "liquid templating"?

@UlrikeFischer Same. They operate independently. Sometimes I've had evince crash too. Presumably a poppler bug.

@DavidPurton I can try here, which evince version do you have?

@UlrikeFischer Assuming it's actually legitimate to have two fields with the same name. I haven't read enough of the spec

@DavidPurton ok, so basically not a problem of my implementation.

@UlrikeFischer liquid is the language being used here <a href = "{{page.name | replace: "lesson-", "more-" | remove_first: ".md"}}">See more on this topic</a>` to generate the html that actually appears on the site

@UlrikeFischer Phew!

@PauloCereda GNOME Document Viewer 3.36.0

@PauloCereda Shall I make the bear jump through a loop?

@DavidPurton yes it is legitimate, it is the standard method to have the boxes work "in unison".

@UlrikeFischer so for example if the french pages need to say See more on this topic in French then there needs to be some extra conditionals there to insert a language specific text not hard code See more on this topic

@DavidPurton ooh you have a greater version than mine. :) Out of curiosity... Fedora 32? :)

@samcarter_is_at_topanswers.xyz as long it's not a fire loop, because it could hurt the bear. :)

Debian Testng

@DavidPurton bah :)

Koalas are good with testing. :)

@PauloCereda stick to windows 10

@DavidCarlisle I guess Paulo knows everything about this ;-) Why is it called "liquid"?

@UlrikeFischer why is German called German, I don't know, it comes from a system called shopify if that helps: shopify.github.io/liquid

@UlrikeFischer ooh a "liquid design', you mean? They give this fancy name to indicate the content accommodates to whatever display you have.

@DavidCarlisle ooh a template engine

@PauloCereda no specifically a template language called liquid

@DavidCarlisle ooh I know why German is called German! it's because of the Germans, so they give the name of the language to the name of the people, or something along these lines.

We ducks are very good with history of things.

Orange is orange because it's orange. So lemon should be called green...

ooh advanced language skills

@PauloCereda but because they have a scrambled keyboard they start the word with D rather than G.

@DavidCarlisle Also they not have a space bar, so you can have a verylongwordthatmeansanotherotherthingywhichmightbeveryimportantooohagermanword

@DavidCarlisle I guess that was rather my point: the 'live' pages should (to me) only be 'proper' content, so development of new languages would be in a branch until it's 'owners' are ready

@DavidCarlisle I think they might have a locale filter, let me check their docs.

@DavidCarlisle shopify.dev/tutorials/…

@JosephWright yes but I can't test the code in a branch (and I can't get the templating right without testing) that's why I originally set up the ll copy so I could test on a live github pages setup without messing up the commit history and look at the real site.

@DavidCarlisle Hmm, perhaps

@DavidCarlisle Once we get some translators ...

@PauloCereda yes although need to check with jekyll as its only using the liquid expression language not the full shopify system

@DavidCarlisle ah

@PauloCereda the whole github pages/jekyll/liquid stack is "interesting" (which is why its best to test on a live github pages site even if that means showing your mistakes in public:-)

@DavidCarlisle indeed... I am moving stuff to Hugo. :)

@PauloCereda Looks good ...

@DavidCarlisle Very true: Jekyll isn't perfect, but I think the relative ease of use compared to other approaches we've had is good

@PauloCereda I see they have multi-lingual support out-of-the-box

@DavidCarlisle From @PauloCereda's Hugo suggestion, I had a quick look at the structure of letsencrypt.org/(which uses Hugo): they go for the 'top-level = /en/' plan

@JosephWright yes works surprisingly well and for a range of different sites, your blog doesn't look much like learnlatex.org (or souldern.org)

@DavidCarlisle Well exactly. Most of the static framework ideas I think are pretty good, it's the detail that varies. Bottom line is using GitHub Pages -> Jekyll for sanity

@JosephWright yes learnlatex.org/en

@JosephWright ooh

@PauloCereda seems github pages doesn't expose all the i18n features out of the box but several people show similar approaches eg sylvaindurand.org/making-jekyll-multilingual

@DavidCarlisle ooh

Apparently the OP deleted their question shortly after I posted an answer, should I try and get the question undeleted or should I not bother?

tex.stackexchange.com/q/545434/35864

@DavidCarlisle Seems doable: should be easy enough to add a selector

@JosephWright yes

@barbarabeeton Thanks for new comments :)

@DavidCarlisle Will you handle @barbarabeeton's latest comments for learnlatex.org?

@JosephWright I forgot to check spotcolors, I think I will write something to collect all the various input/store/output syntax.

@UlrikeFischer Spot colors are even more 'interesting' than others :)

@JosephWright yes this evening probably (@barbarabeeton)

@UlrikeFischer I see a few bugs in l3backend: should I release?

@JosephWright I don't think I have anything open now apart from the uncompress stream and this needs more thinking anyway.

ooh Australian bread is good

@PauloCereda I would have expected that it is rather hard when arriving to brazil ;-)

@UlrikeFischer oh it's a fake Australian bread. :) The bakery nearby made one and labeled it "Australian bread". It must be true, as the bread was lying upside down.

@cis do you have a github account? Do you want to be added to quack as a collaborator

?

@DavidCarlisle -- I've found a few more. Will try to send before "evening".

@barbarabeeton Cool: thanks

I'd like to have a newline inside a table cell. I am using \makecell for that

\begin{tabularx}{24cm}{p{4cm}|p{6cm}|p{6cm}|p{6cm}}
  \makecell{\thead{Statement}\\(public or sent from $P$ to $V$)} & ... & ... & ...
\end{tabularx}

however, the text now overflows the column separation line

Basically, how can I have newlines while still respecting column widths?

A duck store asked to follow me on Instagram... duckyou-online.com I DON'T KNOW HOW TO READ HEBREW

@ComFreek You don't need to use \makecell inside a p-type column. You can use \newline instead.

@ComFreek Also, tabularx without a single X-type column is pretty useless.

@PauloCereda you could ask our local linguist, @DavidCarlisle.

@Skillmonlikestopanswers.xyz ooh

@PauloCereda see, I'm only online for a couple of minutes now and already solved everybody's problem.

@Skillmonlikestopanswers.xyz rabbit efficiency. :)

@PauloCereda It's simple

@egreg ooh Latin!

"Omnis domus indiget anatis!"

^^^ THIS

@PauloCereda also with more consonants

@egreg ooh

ooh

@barbarabeeton thanks

@ComFreek a p column is a parbox, use \newline or a blank line or ...

@Skillmonlikestopanswers.xyz @ComFreek not just useless it's completely broken (I should have made it an error)

@PauloCereda זה מאוד קל

@DavidCarlisle for a moment, I was expecting "dinner". :)

@PauloCereda אני לא רשע

@DavidCarlisle ooh shalom

@PauloCereda sunday roast....

@DavidCarlisle oh no

@DavidCarlisle @Skillmonlikestopanswers.xyz So I should just use tabular?

@ComFreek if you want to specify all the widths, yes, tabularx is when you want latex to guess some of the widths to use with p{...}

@CarLaTeX ^^

@PauloCereda Agreed :)

@DavidCarlisle It's quite hard to understand what's right and what not, so many different packages exist :)

@ComFreek blame the person who wrote the additional table packages.

You say I can insert a newline with just an empty line

How do I make a new paragraph then in a table cell?

(Not that I have any intention on doing, but just wondering)

@ComFreek instead of \\ use \linebreak, \newline or \par in a p-type or X-type column (all three have different results, the first is still justified, the second is like a \\ outside of a table, the third is a new paragraph, though the results of \par and \newline will look pretty much the same)

@ComFreek the same as anywhere else, just leave a blank line

@Skillmonlikestopanswers.xyz I'd use a blank line rather than \par but yes.

@barbarabeeton Thanks for the latest corrections: all looking good

@JosephWright is that the promised "extra set" or the set 4 that I already added? (I don't think I have seen the former) ?

@JosephWright I think I have language switching at davidcarlisle.github.io/ll/de more or less working now a dropdown on every page (needs restyling in the end) and configurable list of languages set in the config.yml:

langs:
   - en
   - fr
   - de

So I think I could probably update the scripts at learnlatex.org to get back in sync, but have an empty list in the config there until there are some real translations

@DavidCarlisle Yes

@DavidCarlisle Think we can adjust the font for texfaq?

@DavidCarlisle Looks excellent

@DavidCarlisle Yes, sounds good: gives people the sense they can help

@DavidCarlisle We should add something about translations to the contribtuting page

@JosephWright -- I've just hit "return" on email with collection #5. I do hope it's the last! (@DavidCarlisle)

@barbarabeeton :)

@barbarabeeton but you will need to read the french version to check all the french semicolons are suitably spaced davidcarlisle.github.io/ll/fr

@DavidCarlisle -- Mais oui! Certainement.

@JosephWright adjusting it is easy making it user-configurable a bit less so (questions like do you save the choice in a cookie and then need an accept cookie banner) personally I don't mind hitting ctrl+ if im tired and it looks a bit small.

@JosephWright does it include the wrong "including" in the introduction? (I hadn't the time to change it in the morning)

@DavidCarlisle looks good, it is only disappointing that the German page doesn't begin with Velcome; -)

@UlrikeFischer and not a single ß in the whole site

@DavidCarlisle trying to make a Swiss compatible version?

@UlrikeFischer since we are not allowed real English for fear of confusing @barbarabeeton, seems reasonable.

@DavidCarlisle Now that you have the language switch working we could make an en-UK and an en-UK version ;-) which spelling does the site actually use?

@UlrikeFischer we are trying to enforce us spelling for consistency

@DavidCarlisle sounds reasonable in view that Barbara is doing the proof reading

@UlrikeFischer I'll pick up the including as I do bb's comments

@UlrikeFischer -- Actually, I'm leaving some Briticisms, unless I suspect they would cause somebody on this side of the pond to get distracted to the point of losing the intended track. I got pretty good exposure to that helping to edit some ISO documents. In that context, the criterion was "will it translate without changing the meaning?"

@DavidCarlisle I would have pushed the multi-file projects to happen, but fortunately I didn't have to :-)

And considering the %! directives: I'm really not sure what's going on, but if you found a way, then it's probably fine :-)

@yo' as I say I may make a test file that is just html and an explicit form, it's always possible that I can't show the issue there and the problem is in my site templating, but I think I will probably be able to reproduce but it's not critical anyway, just caused me some worry getting it working again.

@DavidCarlisle ah yeah, well, Overleaf is just as any other piece of software, it has features, and it also has features.

@JosephWright learnlatex.org/CONTRIBUTING#language (should we link to CONTRIBUTING and AUTHORS somewhere or rather link to "about.md" somewhere eg from help, or do we just pick that in the "to be provided" site navigation

@DavidCarlisle -- Please fix "focussed" on davidcarlisle.github.io/ll before it creeps into the posted version again! (Jumps up and down, tearing her hair out.) At least I now understand how the degradation likely happened.

@barbarabeeton not me, I never copy text from ll back to the.org site (only the scripts) I occasionally copy the text in the other direction, which I'll do now:-)

@DavidCarlisle -- Thank you!

@barbarabeeton done:-) (may take a couple of minutes to rebuild)

What's with this massive flood of exactly duplicate “draw this for me” questions recently? Does anyone know where they come from?