@Rmano ooh

In abour 4 hours, I should be landing in Frankfurt. :(

@PauloCereda Abendessen

@DavidCarlisle oh nein

@DavidCarlisle see, my German is improving. :)

@PauloCereda Nach dem Abendessen spielt es keine Rolle

@DavidCarlisle oh no

(why do I keep getting timeouts in here?!)

@DavidCarlisle Abendessen with us was the plan :-((.

@Sebastiano Quantum mechanics?

Good afternoon. I hope everyone is doing well.

Anxious times in India.

@UlrikeFischer :(

@barbarabeeton @DavidCarlisle I think I have the empheq vs ams classes down to just multline and flalign being annoying. I will probably leave those for now at get the updated mathtools and empheq out the door for TL20

It is two minor fixes: set an internal length to \columnwidth if \displaywidth is larger than \linewidth and disabling \fullwidthdisplay during the typesetting phase via a hook. The first change make sure things are adjusted correctly, so the second one is not too bad.

@JosephWright During my empheq escapades, I made some extra tools that I'd like to keep with the bundle. Should I just add it in a subfolder to the repro or how is this normally done? It's written in perl and might not be useful for everyone (special modules are used), but useful for me as I work from several PCs (or just one at the moment, with no backup)

@daleif If it's not for distribution, I'd make a support/ folder and put it there

@JosephWright has xetex anything comparable to \pdftexbanner?

@JosephWright I'll do that

@UlrikeFischer No

@JosephWright pity, so no way to detect miktex here.

@JosephWright wasn't there a plan that "someone" normalised the engine web sources to have a generic banner command:-)

@UlrikeFischer the miktex question on texhax last night?

@DavidCarlisle yes, just wanted to mention ifplatform and how to test for the banner.

@UlrikeFischer I looked at the package "miktex" is entirely the wrong test anyway, (despite the package option being called miktex) it wants to know whether to use windows or linux in shell escape so needs [miktex] in windows texlive and does not need [miktex] in miktex on linux.

@PauloCereda you're still flying?

@Skillmonlikestopanswers.xyz no. :(

@DavidCarlisle I will mention this aspect too (imho there are a number of packages which still non-working miktex tests around ;-()

@PauloCereda oh, misunderstood the message :(

@Skillmonlikestopanswers.xyz /duck hug

@DavidCarlisle Yes, but it's not was simple as I hoped

@PauloCereda /rabbit hug

@Skillmonlikestopanswers.xyz awww

@JosephWright should we have a \c_sys_engine_banner_str? It could give \pdftexbanner and \luatexbanner and some home made banner for the rest.

Good morning, everyone. I'm having a little licensing issue. A pgfornament-han library was created using my pgfornament package. In this library there are Chinese ornaments that I would like to incorporate in my package. I sent a mail for a deal but no answer.

It is probably possible to get the ornaments from this library, but it would be more convenient to have them in the same folder. Am I allowed to use them?

@AlainMatthes ctan.org/pkg/pgfornament-han?lang=en says it's LPPL, so yes, but it's LianTze Lim, the Overleaf support so @yo' should be able to put you in touch

@DavidCarlisle @daleif All I need is the "han" folder (without any changes). I'll try to contact him again.

@DavidCarlisle @AlainMatthes You can surely go by the (reasonably permissive) LPPL license, but it's probably better to get in touch with LianTze directly. The easiest way is to write to [email protected] I think

@yo' Exciting times for learnlatex.org ;)

@JosephWright Some big news?

@yo' We've started on the content :)

@yo' github.com/learnlatex/learnlatex.github.io

@JosephWright interesting ionos message

@JosephWright yay!

@daleif Ah, that, well, I wan to actually be able to launch with a full site

@yo' thanks for the information !

@AlainMatthes you're welcome!

@AlainMatthes LianTze will reply to you. It seems that GMail marked some your messages as spam...

@yo' Those spammy package authors!

@Skillmonlikestopanswers.xyz :)

@FaheemMitha Very kind here in Italy and especially in the Sicily there is the caos. Bad bad times....I hope that this time will go to dead. Yes, they are some notes that I have written of my prof. for our books.

Good morning everybody into chat and I hope the good health.

@FaheemMitha Is clear my handwriting?

@Sebastiano You mean i.sstatic.net/ob2F0.png?

@FaheemMitha Also this. My line internet before it was off-line. Here it's raining.

@StefanKottwitz Hi, dearest moderator, best regards from Sicily....an excuse always very much for my mistakes for the flags

@Sebastiano You should ask someone who can read whatever language it is. It might be Italian.

@FaheemMitha No:-) it was only an example for my handwriting when I write fast

Now I have put some drops for my eyes and I not see very well.

some my students not understand my handwriting symbols. For my humble opinion it is false.

@Sebastiano Curfew was just declared here in Maharashtra.

Also, my yoga class was cancelled.

@PauloCereda My best regards always.

@Sebastiano likewise

@FaheemMitha Here there is confusion of different typologies.

@Sebastiano I forget where you are. On an island. Possibly Sicily.

They've sealed off the city too, apparently. Fun times.

The India-wide count is now over 400, and the govt has pretty much pulled out all the stops. Everything is shutting down.

It's weird to hear the birds chirping, and the wind in the trees.

@FaheemMitha welcome to my world. :)

@Sebastiano Hi My personal opinion: math is ok, I can follow it perfectly. The wording, thought, is challenging: the cursive italian style mix u, v, n, m, t, f. I had the same problem, especially when writing on-line, so I forced myself to use print style when writing words.

@FaheemMitha The same in Milan

@DavidCarlisle Congratulations!

Does somebody know the minimum reputation requirement for commenting? A new user asked a question and I added a comment for clarification, but I don't know whether OP is allowed to reply in a comment.

@DavidCarlisle I'm currently out of the loop ;-(. Some unfriendly user has been removed some days ago and I got +2 points from it.

@AlexG imho you can always comment your own question.

@UlrikeFischer Ah, ok. Sounds sensible.

Thanks!

@JosephWright I'm happy to contribute. Suggestions for most needed stuff?

@AlanMunn What's your GitHub user? We have a list of issues to let people pick which lesson(s) they are writing

@AlanMunn Pick a lesson and assign yourselve

Social distancing means we need to stay at least 1 tapir apart

@JosephWright please add tapir support to siunitx. :)

@PauloCereda breaking fake news?

@AlexG yes. :)

@AlexG 50 tex.stackexchange.com/help/privileges

@PauloCereda \DeclareSIUnit\tapir{tapir} ;-)

@AlexG Anyone can comment on their own posts, as far as I know.

@DavidCarlisle Thanks, but commenting own question is not mentioned here.

@Rmano ooh

@AlexG I've never tried commenting on my own question

@HaraldHanche-Olsen Yes, as @Ulrike said. OP already replied. (With 11 rep)

@AlexG Yes, I just noticed and was going to delete my response, but now I'll let it stand.

@DavidCarlisle You should try it.

@HaraldHanche-Olsen I've commented on all my questions now, so it seems to be sufficient to have 551155 rep

Is there an easy way to \OR two tex booleans without setting an auxiliary boolean?

@AlexG use expl3 infix booleans or use \ifnum\iffoo 1\else\ifbar 1\else 0\fi=1 ... \fi

@barbarabeeton ultrasparky.org/school/pdf/DanielRhatigan_Dissertation.pdf

@DavidCarlisle Thanks!

@DavidCarlisle Yay! My favourite trick

@JosephWright I felt I asked this on an earlier occasion but I was unable to remember!

@PauloCereda -- Yes, I know it. Thanks. How are you doing, and where are you?

@barbarabeeton I am fine, thanks. :) Safe at home, near Fubá. :) And you?

@PauloCereda -- But earlier today you said, "In about 4 hours, I should be landing in Frankfurt. :(" What's happening? (I just checked in, and haven't yet caught up.) As for us in Providence, we're hunkered down, but doing well, and the state government, for a change, is doing all the right things, although they're going to be running out of money pretty soon.

@JosephWright \ifthenelse more or less:-)

@barbarabeeton Oh I meant that if the current events hadn't happened, I'd arrived today in Frankfurt. :)

@JosephWright when one give a wrong value to choice keys of hyperref, one gets in the log a nice list of allowed options. Would it be possible to get this with l3keys too?

Package hyperref Warning: Values of option `pdfpagelayout':
(hyperref)                * `SinglePage'
(hyperref)                * `OneColumn'
(hyperref)                * `TwoColumnLeft'
(hyperref)                * `TwoColumnRight'
(hyperref)                * `TwoPageLeft' (PDF 1.5)
(hyperref)                * `TwoPageRight' (PDF 1.5)
(hyperref)                * An empty value disables the option.
(hyperref)                Unknown value `TwoPageLefts' on input line 35.

@JosephWright It's amunn

@barbarabeeton sorry for my English fail here. :)

@AlanMunn ooh

@AlanMunn twitter.com/davidrkadler/status/1241741594195304452 emphasis on flamethrowers.

@PauloCereda -- Ah, I was wondering if you were still traveling (although I didn't think so). or had managed to violate the laws of physics.

@PauloCereda Time for a lesson in the perfect. :) You should have said 'In about 4 hours I should have been landing in FFM'

@barbarabeeton ooh we ducks are not too good at physics. :)

@PauloCereda or English:-)

@AlanMunn ooh thanks! I was wondering what the correct phrasing would be.

@DavidCarlisle quack

@PauloCereda jantar

@AlanMunn "should have been landing". It does make sense, but I must admit it sounds so strange to a Brazilian. :)

@DavidCarlisle ó não

@PauloCereda What would the Portuguese phrasing be?

@AlanMunn Good question. Estaria chegando em Frankfurt, perhaps?

Argh, even that sounds... weird...

@PauloCereda Yes, maybe.

@PauloCereda C. concurs.

@AlanMunn Added

@JosephWright Ok. Now I see how it works. I assume we can use material from here properly attributed?

@barbarabeeton All the right things, as in...?

@PauloCereda Oh, I was wondering what could have possessed you to fly to Germany, and how that was even possible. Perhaps with unaided wing power? :-)

If nothing else, this catastrophe is improving my geography. Silver lining?

@FaheemMitha :)

@FaheemMitha -- All gathering places (theaters, bars, restaurants, gyms.) are shut down. Restaurants may offer takeout. She has a news conference every day and encourages people to keep their distance, and says that if any groups of more than 10 are spotted, they will be dealt with. Her staff has been in contact with local manufacturers who are able to make things like masks, with good effects. At news conferences she has the experts answer and doesn't criticize.

@barbarabeeton Who is "she"?

Indians have difficulty with the whole "social distancing" concept, so I think the govt has stopped playing nice here.

@FaheemMitha -- I don't usually like some of the governor's policies, and didn't vote for her, but she gets good marks for her approach in this situation. Her name is Gina Raimondo, and in addition to being governor of Rhode Island, she's the current chair of the Democratic (party) governors conference.

@barbarabeeton Oh, the governer. I see.

The bad news is that I'm probably not going to be getting my Amazon deliveries.

@FaheemMitha I can relate to that. I think mine will be delivered, but a tad late.

Any one know if it is possible to refer to a line number in a DTX file? I'm trying to improve the DTX for empheq a bit as it can be very confusing. For a particular part, I'd like to refer the reader to the line where this is being used.

Regards to all.

Found a solution that works.

@egreg 😩😩😩 excuse me very much...when you have a bit of your precious time, there is a limit on Math-SE. Thank you very much and thank you again.

@daleif -- Of course, some editors (emacs for one) have a function "go to line", so even if it's not universal, it's useful to give reference line numbers. (What's the solution you've found?)

@barbarabeeton \refstepcounter{CodelineNo}\label{goodandbad}\addtocounter{CodelineNo}{-1} (right before the codeline in question) then had to do some cleaning before running the ref.

A little latex-related social distancing. mtlblog.com/people/canada/qc/montreal/…

@daleif -- Interesting. So this refers one to the code line number, not the actual line in the ,dtx file. The code lines aren't numbered in the file itself, but the numbers show up in the pdf when the .dtx file itself is compiled. A reasonable approach, but should be documented clearly. (Or have I misinterpreted something?) I'll be happy to review documentation if you would like.

@barbarabeeton It is probably now worth it in this case. And the code documentation where I use it should be rewritten when time permits, it is describing some old code that comes further down the PDF (hence the ref) but this code is only there for backwards compatibility), and ought to be moved to the actual old code.

@daleif -- Although this is "temporary" in what you describe, it sounds like it could be useful to other writers of .dtx files. Do please keep that in mind.

@barbarabeeton Well, if there was a real need, someone else had probably asked for it by now.

@PauloCereda for texdoc.net you might want to add a <noscript> notice just in case people don't have javascript activated. For example at home I only have javascript enabled on trusted sources, so if I visit something new... It is not obvious from the page it self that it requires javascript to run.

@daleif Oh sorry.

Oh, joy! It's started to snow.

@PauloCereda You could get nasty and hide the entire homepage via css and then have javascript add a class to the body tag. No javascript no class and the website it no shown just the noscript message.

Good thing I bought a new office chair last week, stuck here for another 3 weeks.

@barbarabeeton Wow! It's quite cold also here, not as much cold, though.

@daleif we were just warned we might be home working for months rather than weeks

@daleif ^^^ :)

@DavidCarlisle same thing here.

@barbarabeeton yay!

@barbarabeeton wow, I'm envious. I had to cancel my Easter ski reservation... and the ski stations in the Pyrenees just this year have lot of snow. :-(

@Rmano -- Well, we're expecting only a few centimeters. Not nearly enough to ski or even snowshoe, hardly enough to require serious boots. But if you want to dream, here's something I just love; it's a story about what a couple of local skiers did to take advantage of a really good snowfall a few years ago: youtube.com/watch?v=Y-2UEacqDz0

@AndrewStacey HI!

@PauloCereda Hei Paulo! Strange times, so I figured I'd be myself again.

@AndrewStacey Throwing everyone for a Loop (Space).

@AndrewStacey Miss you, pal!

@AlanMunn ooh a loopity loop

@AndrewStacey Nice to see you!

@barbarabeeton We had snow about 2in of snow this morning, but it has already melted.

The only thing close to snow is inside my refrigerator when I got some ice cubes to put in my Coca-Cola. :)

@PauloCereda -- That's called "frost", and getting rid of it is "defrosting" in English.

@barbarabeeton ooh

@PauloCereda -- Frost also forms on windows, and it can be very pretty.

@barbarabeeton that's cool!

@PauloCereda Don't listen to @barbarabeeton. Everyone knows 'defrosting' is licking the icing off of a cake. :)

@AlanMunn ooh cake

@AlanMunn -- touché.

@barbarabeeton ooh fencing

@AlanMunn ^^

@PauloCereda my sister had Bday last week. My dad's tomorrow, my brother-in-laws by the end of the week. And we have tough time celebrating them together

@yo' ooh big cake! Happy birthday to everybody!

Btw, our PM will have a public speech broadcast on three major TVs. Many people will whistle from their balconies to protest against his actions.

@barbarabeeton wow! what a dump...

@Rmano -- Well, when you're stuck in the city, you take advantage of what the neighborhood offers, (We happen to live at the top of that hill, perhaps half a kilometer to the north. Not so easy to ride a bicycle up it, but when a hurricane comes, it's not going to be flooded.)

@yo' @DavidCarlisle Good news. I was able to exchange a few messages with LianTze. LianTze and his collaborator who created the ornaments are in agreement for the integration in pgfornament. Thank you very much!

@yo' @DavidCarlisle Other good news I also have Vinent le Moing's agreement to adapt other eps and pdf ornaments to pgf format. And I compile my documentation with lualatex. Nox I have a lot of work to adapt the ornaments !!

@AlainMatthes You're welcome; just please note that LianTze is definitely "she" :-)

@barbarabeeton That would be nice. Also here where I live there is a (smaller) hill, but the last snowstorm that left a reasonable snow to even start thinking skiing was 10 years ago...

Good evening to all users...my always sincere regards.

@Rmano Thank you very much for the name of that software.

For all information; in this time I have the health of my eyes very bad for constant use of the laptop due to distance learning.

Are they aligned the $1$ and $\hat 1$ into my answer? tex.stackexchange.com/questions/533806/…

@Sebastiano -- Yes, they are aligned.

Another empheq vs the world bug in the bag. Took all day.

@daleif -- Good going! Keep up the good work.

@daleif hip hip hurray!

@barbarabeeton I'm sitting here with 8 2-page PDF files as my controls. All eight autocompiles at each change to the sources. I'm down to flalign misbehaving under fleqn+reqno in both article and amsart

@daleif -- But I thought you always recommend reqno? (Glad that article and amsart behave the same.)

@barbarabeeton I do, I don't recommend flalign especially not with empheq, I don't really see the point.

@daleif -- I think one problem with flalign is that users think of it as "flush left", instead of "full length" which is the intended meaning. Haven't been able to think of a good way to get that concept across. (And, indeed, a true "flush left" facility seems to be wanted.)

@yo' I know but my english has holes as big as parts of my code.

twitter.com/EugeneinOregon/status/1241727432836579335

@yo' Although not in Mandarin. :)

@AlanMunn LOL

@AlanMunn :)

@AlanMunn gocomics.com/bloom-county/2015/10/01 ;-)

@AlanMunn -- I first read that as "Eugene Onegin". Not! (And I know there's no final "e" on "Eugen".) My husband showed that to me earlier today, and I nearly collapsed laughing, as well as forwarded it to my copyeditor friends. Hold that line ... er those spaces!

@Rmano lol

@AndrewStacey Well, long time no see! How are things out there on your island?

PGF/TikZ needs you! Can you reproduce this issue? github.com/pgf-tikz/pgf/issues/833

What in amsmath and in article and in amsart is exactly 15pt? I have things working if is negative kern by 15pt. And I have no idea where that came from.

@daleif grep shows me that \floatsep is 15pt plus 12pt in amsart.

@HenriMenke this is exactly 15pt no stretch

I was thinking \parindent but I've now set that to 34pt and it does not change anything

@daleif $ grep -r '15pt' "$(kpsexpand "\$TEXMFDIST")/tex/latex/"{amscls,base}

/opt/texlive/2019/texmf-dist/tex/latex/amscls/amsbook.cls:\floatsep=15pt plus 12pt    \dblfloatsep=15pt plus 12pt
/opt/texlive/2019/texmf-dist/tex/latex/amscls/amsbook.cls:\textfloatsep=\floatsep  \dbltextfloatsep=15pt plus 12pt
/opt/texlive/2019/texmf-dist/tex/latex/amscls/amsbook.cls:\setlength{\textfloatsep}{15pt plus 8pt minus 5pt}
/opt/texlive/2019/texmf-dist/tex/latex/amscls/amsbook.cls:\setlength{\dbltextfloatsep}{15pt plus 8pt minus 5pt}
/opt/texlive/2019/texmf-dist/tex/latex/amscls/amsart.cls:\floatsep=15pt plus 12pt    \dblfloatsep=15pt plus 12pt

@HenriMenke Yes, with the tl2020 pretest.

@HaraldHanche-Olsen Which engine, which OS, which viewer?

@UlrikeFischer We need to update l3build?

Hmm, I'll dig further. Regarding that PGF stuff, what exactly should we do?

I don't even understand the OPs question on this site. But that is probable because I never use externalize

@HenriMenke pdflatex and xelatex, same result. macOS 10.15.3. All the previewers easily available to me: skim, preview, pdfpen pro. The latter uses its own pdf rendering engine while the first two use Apple's.

@daleif parindent (and normalparindent) ?

@daleif Compile the MWE with different engines and open it in different viewers. Two arrows should show up, one red, one blue. If only one shows up, you reproduced the issue.

UK just massively increased its restrictions...

@HenriMenke Er wait, none showed up here. But in the figures/mumble.pdf, both do.

@HaraldHanche-Olsen What do you mean none showed up? Can you post a screenshot?

@HenriMenke I get a blank page with just the page number showing. Would make for a boring screenshot.

@HaraldHanche-Olsen which os and which viewer

@HaraldHanche-Olsen Do the arrows show up when you comment out \tikzexternalize?

@daleif see my response about 7 comments back

@DavidCarlisle Yup

@HaraldHanche-Olsen sorry, long day

This is the expected output.

@HenriMenke yes

@HaraldHanche-Olsen If you have Homebrew, can you install mupdf and see whether the arrows show up there?

@HenriMenke I added some letters before and after, and found that the nonexistent graphics takes up the expected amount of space (approximately).

@DavidCarlisle normalparindent? Though it might be 3 times \mintagsep

nope

@HenriMenke Haven't got homebrew, but mupdf is in macports too. Hang on … building now …

@HaraldHanche-Olsen Ugh, that might take a while. On Homebrew you can get binaries (that's also why it is generally more popular than macports).

@HenriMenke Macports has lots of binaries! Just not for this one. It compiled fast enough. And yes, the arrows show up in it.

@HaraldHanche-Olsen Okay, so it doesn't seem to be macOS-related. Is it possible to find out which rendering engine pdfpen is using? Maybe they fall back to the Apple rendering engine on macOS.

@HenriMenke Not sure, but I think they are using one developed in-house. But I'll poke a bit and see what I can find.

@DavidCarlisle can't be it, it is both seen in article and amsart, seems to be tag related somehow

@daleif yes was just looking for 15s

@DavidCarlisle I know. It is just such an oddly specific number. It is not related to font size either.

A lot of this stuff is not super well documented, so it is just a lot of trail and error typing out stuff

@HenriMenke Sorry, my poking produced no results. My main reason for thinking that they have their own rendering engine is that it (pdfpen) often works on files that both skim and preview have trouble with. Also, it looks different: The fonts seem to be rendered with less weight somehow.

@HenriMenke In any case, pdfpen is a pure mac app, I think. Well, that and iOS/ipadOS.

@HenriMenke I added a brief comment on github.

@HaraldHanche-Olsen Thank you. I don't know how Apple handles bug reporting, but it probably a good idea to open a ticket with them about this issue.

@HenriMenke Their system seems to be mostly a black hole. Only in one case have I heard back from them. That was when I reported a security hole in Safari. And even that took so long I had forgotten the details by the time they contacted me.

@HaraldHanche-Olsen Well, they were going okay until recently. I was going to say "Until 8:30pm today" but actually it's all the £&^"£$& idiots going out at the weekend that precipitated today.

@PhelypeOleinik Hi, I sent you an email :)

@AndrewStacey Yeah, @DavidCarlisle mentioned it above. I had a look at the Guardian, and the new measures look very strict indeed. Almost up to the Wuhan standard. We're not quite as tightly locked down in Norway, but people are remarkably disciplined about it. Some businesses are shut down. I can't get a haircut for example, but then I rarely do anyhow. The number of temporarily laid off workers rivals the 1930s.

@PabloGonzálezL Hello :-) I was just reading it

@PhelypeOleinik Hehe...just a crazy idea :)

@PabloGonzálezL Someone has to have them :-)

@HaraldHanche-Olsen I have this picture of Norwegians interpreting "social isolation" as "spend another week at the hytta", and a 2m distance seems like the right separation between skiers anyway.

@AndrewStacey The problem is, it is now illegal to go to your hytte. It would make sense as an isolation measure, and a lot of people did, but then the local communities say if all those people get sick, the local healthcare system doesn't have the capacity to care for them, so go home! And the government backed them and passed a law.

@AndrewStacey You know how Norwegians feel about going to the mountains over Easter? It looks like we can't this year. That is going to hurt.

@JosephWright sorry? did I miss something?

\begin{chat}

@merrybot \greetings

@Skill

oh what

@UlrikeFischer The thing on the TL list

@merrybot interesting ping (I got pinged)

@Skillmonlikestopanswers.xyz \HUGE{\hello}

@merrybot \HUGE doesn't take an argument, correct would be {\HUGE\hello}

@Skillmonlikestopanswers.xyz bfft facepalm

@merrybot It happened to all of us (except @DavidCarlisle, he would've failed writing something like {\HGUE\hello}).

well then.

@JosephWright ah yes. At some time l3build will probably need an adjustment here. Did you see Frank's review?

@Skillmonlikestopanswers.xyz rabbit pie