TeX, LaTeX and Friends

Sebastiano

00:02

@manooooh Hiiiiiiiiiiii :-)

Hi David and everybody ...connected here

manooooh

00:16

@Sebastiano ohh, hello! My apologies for all the disaster that the Coronavirus is causing in your country. My best wishes to all of you

\newenvironment{mytabularx}{
\medskip
\centering\tabularx}{
\endtabularx\medskip\par
}

\newenvironment{mytabular}{
\medskip
\centering\tabular}{
\endtabular\medskip\par
}

@DavidCarlisle ^^^^^^ are the new environments well defined? Is the syntax correct? Thanks!

daleif

11:11

@UlrikeFischer @DavidCarlisle whos responsible for the webdsign of the latex-project homepage? There seems to be an issue with the CSS on that page. Look at the very bottom there is an overlap between the footer and the bottom of the bug report or whatever that is.

It comes from the negative margins on the div.wrap in the design. Actually the last one of the settings on that wrap. Set it to zero and the page looks fine again. (nice feature in firefox where the dev tools lets to mess with a pages css right there)

cis

11:26

Hello my friends in the Anglo Saxon areas!

@ How to Use Commas in English Writing
I found a sentence:

I bought apples, tomatos, and carrots.

Do you write down the second comma here? Looks strange.

Marcel Krüger

@cis It's called Oxford comma. If it is used or not seem to depend on the region and personal opinion of the author. (Or at least the style guide the author used)

cis

Mhhh, I think you do not set this commas:

The house, that I built. Or: The house, that I built, is green.

In German you would set a comma here.

Marcel Krüger

11:50

@cis I would write a comma there, but I'm German, so I might not be the most reliable person to ask.

Skillmon likes topanswers.xyz

12:26

@JosephWright With "below 80 characters long", do you mean l <= 80 or l < 80?

David Carlisle

@cis You can not win, as Marcel says it's the Oxford comma because the Oxford University press style guidelines recommended its use, but (at the time) common use and most other style guides recommended it not be used. these days it is more or less completely inconsistent. some people always use it some never and some just use it in cases where the list items are compound terms that may include "and"

Skillmon likes topanswers.xyz

@cis the comma before the "and" can help disambiguate the meaning. One of the favourite example sentences is "Two prostitutes, Dave and Jack walked into a bar." vs. "Two prostitutes, Dave, and Jack ...", the former can mean that the prostitutes are named Dave and Jack, the latter is clear. At least that's what users of the Oxford comma say...

Sebastiano

@manooooh Thank you for your kind thoughts. Unfortunately, the situation is not at all simple. In the South of Italy, especially in Sicily, no one has the mask. There aren't any. Just think that still here in my country only a couple of people have coronavirus but people do not respect the rules. I hope very much that we will live again and I think that this evil is the cause of all the evil we are doing to our Earth and between us. A big hug.

David Carlisle

@daleif I guess we are responsible now, although the original setup was done with outside help

Sebastiano

Good morning everybody from Sicily to all users .....and my best regards.

I wish you all the best.

Paulo Cereda

12:37

quack

David Carlisle

@PauloCereda dinner

Paulo Cereda

@DavidCarlisle oh no

Paulo Cereda

13:24

> If Harry Potter can live under stairs for 11 years, you can get through a few months of self-isolation.

Hmmmm

barbara beeton

14:01

@cis -- (Grammar pedant here.) In this sentence, the comma before "and" isn't needed, since there won't be any confusion.

-- Wrong comma use in English. "that I built" identifies a specific house. On the other hand,
"The house, which I built, ..."
merely points out something special about the house.

barbara beeton

14:47

Anybody here who's comfortable with the use of multirowin tabularx? (See tex.stackexchange.com/q/533462 ) @DavidCarlisle? I could probably keep experimenting, but predict at least a couple of hours, not counting having to dig up and read documentation. I know someone else can do it quicker and better.

David Carlisle

@barbarabeeton I do wish people would stop using my packages:-)

@barbarabeeton just looking at your answer, the over sized entry is in \thead so requires manual breaks doesn't it?

Faheem Mitha

@PauloCereda If that is a quote, where is it from?

barbara beeton

@DavidCarlisle -- You mean likr indentfirst?

David Carlisle

@barbarabeeton I just tried your answer and get ! Missing \cr inserted.

@barbarabeeton this comment seems to have been wrapped leaving the }} uncommented ?

 \textbf{{\small Condition }} &fasfasdfafa %&\multicolumn{4}{c}{\textbf{\small \
jkhjhhk}}

Faheem Mitha

@Sebastiano Greetings from India.

barbara beeton

15:00

@DavidCarlisle -- I think so, but it took me an hour to get to where I did. And since I've managed to acquire an eye infection, I'm not seeing well at the moment.

David Carlisle

@barbarabeeton I have a cleaned up version, do you want me to edit your answer?

It is sadly lacking in teh at the moment.

@barbarabeeton if you say no to the above I'll revert the edit I just pushed:-)

barbara beeton

@DavidCarlisle -- Oh, you're welcome to put in your own answer. (I was 10 points from a palindrome, just before someone accepted an answer. Now I also have to figure out how to add exactly one point to have a hope of matching the next ten thousand level.)

mickep

@barbarabeeton /nick barbararabrab would get you a palindrome easily.

David Carlisle

@barbarabeeton haven't actually read the question properly and I just deleted a \thead and a couple of \\ from your code so it doesn't really merit another answer, but am happy to revert if you would rather

barbara beeton

@DavidCarlisle -- Oh, that's very nice! Thank you!

I figured out how that comment line got split. I don't have a working TeX on my laptop, which is too old to update. And emacs wraps long lines with a backslash at the end of the broken lines. Guess what happens when you copy and paste. I missed (at least) one when making repairs. But that isn't the file I compiled, so I think there's still something wrong.

@mickep -- Ah! A permanent one. To be considered.

@DavidCarlisle -- No, don't revert, but please make sure that the answer really does help the OP.

Alan Munn

15:27

@barbarabeeton American fake grammar news. :) Many of us use 'which' for restrictive relative clauses too. It's a prescriptive Americanism that wh-relatives need commas.

@barbarabeeton Of course they do when they are non-restrictive.

barbara beeton

@AlanMunn -- Oh, yes. I know that, but in the case under discussion I was trying to make the distinction in meaning. In any event, "that" doesn't want a comma here.

Alan Munn

@barbarabeeton Yes, I knew that; just couldn't resist... :)

barbara beeton

@AlanMunn -- I saw an example the other day where "that" really couldn't be used, but I've forgotten the details, (Actually, I use commas inconsistently, depending on what sounds best without being confusing. How's the barn brigade going?)

Alan Munn

@barbarabeeton The use of 'that' with non-restrictive interpretations is actually more common than we'd like to think. As for the barn, I'm avoiding it today. I have grading to do. A much less satisfying activity.

barbara beeton

15:43

@AlanMunn -- Enjoy your grading if you can. Be fair. Your students will appreciate it.

Sebastiano

16:08

@FaheemMitha Again my best regards and a big huge.

Sebastiano

16:22

@egreg I humbly apologize for putting my recent question. Let's just see if someone knows any tools. Thank you so much and I'm so sorry.

cis

16:58

\ifnum\test=1 \stepcounter{aaa} \else \stepcounter{aaa} \stepcounter{bbb}

Is this possible?

I wonder, because I get always a "step"...

Alway a step for aaa and bbb

Complete example:

\foreach \k in {1,...,1}{
\pgfmathsetmacro{\r}{\R*random()}
\pgfmathsetmacro{\w}{360*random()}
\pgfmathsetmacro{\test}{\r > 2*\R ? 1 : 0}
\fill[red] (\w:\r) circle (2pt) node[above]{\w, \r, \test};
\ifnum\test=1 \stepcounter{versuche} \else \stepcounter{versuche} \stepcounter{treffer}\fi%
 \node at (0,-1) {nein, \thetreffer, \theversuche};
}

Paulo Cereda

5

yo'

17:15

@PauloCereda How are you doing?

Paulo Cereda

@yo' still a bit confused, but fine. :) And you, pal? :)

yo'

@PauloCereda I'm fine. Did a sunday service today.

Paulo Cereda

@yo' Oh! <3

yo'

(it's on youtube somewhere, but the quality of the organ recording is very poor; we set up the PC wrongly).

Paulo Cereda

@yo' There's always the next time. :)

Rmano

17:33

A question about the TeXLive2020 release: if I do a (minor) update to xcircuitikz now, it will be in the upcoming TeXLive2020 or the CTAN packages that will be in the release will be the ones that are in 2019 freeze?

barbara beeton

@Rmano -- As I understand it, if your update gets into CTAN and is turned over to TeX Live by next Friday (March 27), and your package is already in TeX Live, the new version will be in the 2020 release. So it's worth trying to make the update carefully so that it gets into CTAN on the first try.

daleif

@barbarabeeton do you know if other changes to the math setup that amsart is doing other than \displaywidth=\columnwidth and \mathindent=\leftmargini (when fleqn is active)?

I've been attempting to debug empheq all weekend and even on multi-column align in non-fleqn there are differences that I do not understand. (everything is framed using \fbox if that is important, makes it easier to see when things are not right)

barbara beeton

17:59

@daleif -- I've asked for access to the AMS internal version along with the bug archives, but haven't heard back. So I know only what's in the version on CTAN. I know it's kind of a last resort, but Frank Mittelbach worked on the creation of amsmath based on AMS-TeX, and also communicated closely with Mike Downes when Mike was building amsclass. I suppose the commentary in amsclass.dtx is too sparse to be helpful.

@daleif -- Thanks so much for digging into this, and sorry I'm not being more helpful.

daleif

@barbarabeeton For now I think I have to release a sort of fixed version (so it can make it into) TL2020, then then I'll have to digg again later. There has to be some extra difference that I'm missing somewhere.

cis

A very good darts-result:

\documentclass[margin=5pt, tikz]{standalone}
\usepackage{tikz}
\usetikzlibrary{calc}
\usetikzlibrary{intersections}
\usetikzlibrary{backgrounds}
\usetikzlibrary{patterns}
\usetikzlibrary{positioning}
\usetikzlibrary{angles, quotes, babel}
\usepackage{amsmath, amssymb}

\begin{document}
% Gegebene Größen
\pgfmathsetmacro{\R}{3} %

\begin{tikzpicture}[%scale=0.7,
font=\footnotesize,
background rectangle/.style={draw=none, fill=black!1, rounded corners}, show background rectangle,
]
\draw[fill=lightgray] (-\R,-\R) rectangle (\R,\R);

Alan Munn

@cis Lousy score though. :)

cis

18:19

@AlanMunn :()

David Carlisle

18:54

@barbarabeeton I posted a separate answer in the end anyway (carefully avoiding any packages for which I'm the sole author)

@AlexG now or in the first batch of updates after they make the dvd?

AlexG

19:08

@DavidCarlisle oops, don't know. Does that matter?

I see. If its is on DVD than it is conserved for posterity?

Why not ;)

Rmano

@barbarabeeton Thanks! Will do.

David Carlisle

@AlexG or to put it another way if you release it in a week's time and need to do a point release to fix an issue a few days later it's not a problem, but if you release it today then it is as it is on the dvd for a year.

AlexG

19:44

@DavidCarlisle I would say it is good enough. Would you please release it for the dvd?

Rmano

@PauloCereda ^^^ ducks ignoring the social distancing in a deserted Seville, today ^^^

2

Alan Munn

@Rmano Not practising proper social distancing.

Rmano

@AlanMunn yes ;-)

Alan Munn

@Rmano We commented at the same time. :)

Rmano

@AlanMunn :)

circuitikz v1.0.2 queued on CTAN. Tested against TeXLive 2019 and TeXLive2020 pdflatex-dev... should be ok. ;-)

Sebastiano

20:08

Good evening for all users into chat.

@DavidCarlisle Hi, excuse me but this is my handwritten.

G Warner

DEfining your greeting as algebraic formulae?

That word looks like it might say confrontation. or confrontational, which plays into computational array when greeting or meeting :) @Sebastiano

I've been parsing sentence structures, so it can take a minute or two for that thought engine to idle down to a stop.

I'm practicising digital version of social distancing with an incessant asker in another chatroom right now.

Mathematical formula for social distancing...

David Carlisle

20:27

@AlexG OK I'll try to get it organised this evening or tomorrow (@JosephWright)

AlexG

@DavidCarlisle Thank you!

Sebastiano

@GWarner I apologise, I had written to @DavidCarlisle in my application that I would send him my handwriting in a chat room. See the link in the comments. tex.stackexchange.com/questions/533680/… Best regard from Sicily (Italy).

cis

And you want to teX that? :)

Ahhh.... just forget this quantum mechanic stuff.... Have a look on the "Heimsche Welt" (= Heimian World?) from Burkhard Heim. :()

.....
::::::
:::::::::

:53870918 I have a question. "social distancing" is this normal English or is this "Hippster English"?
It has some reasons why I ask that.

barbara beeton

21:01

@cis -- I interpret "social distancing" is a neologism, or a new coinage, to express something for which no suitable word or phrase already existed. I think it's rather "tortured", but not from existing slang or subcultural usage. It would be instructive to research when it was first seen in print.

Henri Menke

21:11

Hello everyone, I hope you are staying healthy.

Recently I have received some bug reports in TikZ where parts of the
picture disappear or are rendered incorrectly, but only when the picture
is included via \pgfimage or \includegraphics. Does anyone have an idea
what is going on here?
https://github.com/pgf-tikz/pgf/issues/833
https://github.com/pgf-tikz/pgf/issues/841

cis

@barbarabeeton Aaahhhaa.

barbara beeton

@cis -- At least it makes more sense than "alternative facts".

Alan Munn

@cis I don't know how tortured it is, maybe @barbarabeeton has a better word in mind, but it seems to have been the term that has floated to the top. It may come out of the medical literature originally, but I don't know for sure. Google ngrams shows its first appearance in in the late 1950s with big increases in 1980 and 2000.

barbara beeton

21:28

@AlanMunn -- Thanks. I was hoping you'd check in. If it appeared in the 1950s, then the medical literature (or academic sociology) seems a good guess. 1980 seems to me to be associated with political correctness (but memory could be faulty).

Alan Munn

@barbarabeeton Actually your second guess seems exactly right. All of the first uses up to about 2000 are from the sociology literature, not medicine.

The first uses in medical contexts are still sociological rather than clinical it seems, but discussion of the HIV/AIDS crisis, which would explain the 1980 spike.

And it appears specifically in a Congressional Report of 2005 in the context of pandemic preparations.

The role of social science research in disaster preparedness and response: hearing before the Subcommittee on Research, Committee on Science, House of Representatives, One Hundred Ninth Congress, first session, November 10, 2005, Volume 4

G Warner

:53870918? This wasn't directed at me?

barbara beeton

21:43

@AlanMunn -- Excellent sleuthing. (I still think it's a bit intentionally indirect, if not exactly tortured, but having read a certain amount of soc lit, that fits. At least we can assure @cis that it's not hipster lingo.)

G Warner

@Sebastiano OKay. Point taken. Keep safe.

Alan Munn

@barbarabeeton Yes it does seem a bit socio-babble, and definitely not hipster. :)

G Warner

Sorry to invade your psycho-math chat with my psyhco-speak blathering

Alan Munn

@GWarner It's not ducks, so you're good.

G Warner

It's actually geese in the picture anyway

Alan Munn

21:52

@GWarner When it comes to ducks here, anything that looks remotely like one (even a rabbit) will do.

G Warner

:)

Alan Munn

May 25 '17 at 20:32, by Alan Munn

@UlrikeFischer Wittgenstein was famous for talking about the rabbit-duck, in his Philosophical Investigations https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philosophical_Investigations

G Warner

Hmm okay.. I'm trying to formulate a proper mathematical formula to prove this.

Alan Munn

@GWarner btw, it's really helpful to use the reply feature of chat, since messages get interspersed and it's sometimes hard to know what's a reply to what.

G Warner

@AlanMunn

@AlanMunn thanks

I certainly hadn't aced SE chat yet

daleif

22:04

@DavidCarlisle do you know why the amsmath sources lists alignedat as deprecated?

G Warner

(Q)uestion x (u)nseriousness x (ack!) affable answer (Q)(u)(ack!)

Ulrike Fischer

@HenriMenke well 841 doesn't sound as if it is your problem but a problem with the postprocessing library. They should complain there or use the work-around (draw[solid]). The other sounds like a problem with the pdf viewer on the mac, I can't reproduce it on windows, and preflight doesn't complain.

daleif

@barbarabeeton @DavidCarlisle I think I've located the problem with amsart vs empheq. The latter makes some adjustments and have the math typeset in a box of an adjusted width. So what happens if you force \displaywith\columnwidth` into that construction

\documentclass[a4paper]{article}
\usepackage{amsmath}
\begin{document}
\makeatletter

\fbox{\parbox{0.8\textwidth}{%
\def\maketag@@@#1{\vphantom{#1}}%
\begin{align}
align &= align
& align &= align
\\
&= align
\end{align}
}}

% with the stuff that amsart does
\def\fullwidthdisplay{\displayindent\z@ \displaywidth\columnwidth}
\edef\@tempa{\noexpand\fullwidthdisplay\the\everydisplay}
\everydisplay\expandafter{\@tempa}
\fbox{\parbox{0.8\textwidth}{%
\def\maketag@@@#1{\vphantom{#1}}%
\begin{align}
align &= align

Since the empheq calculations then goes on an uses \alignsep@ for some adjustments, things fail as this \alignsep@ has not been calculated against intended box to begin with.

hmm, I'm kinda tempted to just redefine \fillwidthdisplay during the emph typesetting phase. That just leaves flalign being broken. But I can live with that for now.

David Carlisle

22:22

@daleif not really other than it offers no features over aligned

barbara beeton

@daleif -- If @DavidCarlisle doesn't know, I can ask the group at AMS to see if anything can be found in the archives.

@DavidCarlisle -- It does allow spacing to be controlled a little more easily when there are lots of columns. ("Easily" is, of course, in the eyes of the user.)

David Carlisle

@barbarabeeton align/alignat yes but aligned/alignedat says:

%    The \env{aligned} and \env{alignedat} environments are identical
%    except that the latter takes a mandatory argument to specify the
%    number of align structures, while the former allows any number of
%    align structures automatically (the use of \env{alignedat} is
%    deprecated).

barbara beeton

@DavidCarlisle -- Okay, thanks. Should one then assume that means there's the "obligatory" extra space between pairs?

David Carlisle

@barbarabeeton er I'd need to check and I'm running out of steam for today:-)

barbara beeton

@DavidCarlisle -- Fair enough. The sun's going down here, so you're headed toward midnight. Sleep well.

Henri Menke

23:00

@UlrikeFischer Maybe it's not my problem, but I don't understand why this happens and especially why it only happens when the TikZ picture is in an included PDF. Even if my PDFs are perfectly standard-conforming, that doesn't really help if people have crappy viewers. It would be great if I could just apply the workaround by default so that it “just works” for everyone.

Ulrike Fischer

23:32

@HenriMenke well it is difficult to debug if you can't reproduce it. I tried with various viewers and not lost the fading. Also I don't quite see what work-around you want to offer if their viewer fails on included pdf apart from the advice "don't use externalize".

Henri Menke

@UlrikeFischer I think github.com/pgf-tikz/pgf/issues/841 was resolved in the sense that the service that OP is using actively corrupts the a priori valid PDF.

barbara beeton

23:54

@DavidCarlisle -- Here's an example that cries out for alignedat: tex.stackexchange.com/q/533735

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