TeX, LaTeX and Friends - 2020-02-26

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5:52 AM

@UlrikeFischer Ligatures can be restored (they are marked as ligatures and their components are saved), except that in base mode it is not saved which type of Ligatures was used. But in normal fonts that's no ploblem because normal Ligatures are used almost exclusively. Reordering in node mode are IIRC not detectable.

3 hours later…

8:43 AM

@UlrikeFischer Given that we don't necessarily have to typeset the same list we use to extract the text, we could also switch to nullfont or similar to disable all shaping/ligature building.

8:59 AM

@MarcelKrüger yes, if one goes the typesetting way that would be probably the best. One still would have to pay attention of all the stuff that could affect the "real" typesetting.

@MarcelKrüger @UlrikeFischer luacolor at ctan, thanks

1 hour later…

10:05 AM

@MarcelKrüger, @UlrikeFischer, @DavidCarlisle One for the teamlist?

@Skillmonlikestopanswers.xyz ooh a secret frontend

@JosephWright perhaps. But I suspect that a luatex only solution is currently not the way to go ... If you do it by expansion, could you handle something like a numbered list?

10:22 AM

@UlrikeFischer in a PDF string? Er, that might be hard

@JosephWright it doesn't have to be fully expandable. I think it would be quite okay to do something like \preprocess\tlvar{\item duck \item bär \item more ducks} and then have 1. duck 2. bär 3. more ducks in the tlvar. Would that work?

@UlrikeFischer Yes, that would be workable, though I could likely using flags to do it purely by expansion ...

10:38 AM

@JosephWright I don't think that purely expansion is so important. The following str-convert stuff is not expandable anyway. It is more important to get something sensible out ot a larger variety of input than it is currently possible with pdfstringdef. We can tell people not to put e.g. a tabular there, but simple lists is perhaps something that should work.

1 hour later…

11:47 AM

user image

4

@Skillmonlikestopanswers.xyz ^^ rabbits have a good heart

Skillmon likes topanswers.xyz

12:01 PM

@PauloCereda ?

@PauloCereda aaww <3

@PauloCereda did you find my currently empty repo?

@Skillmonlikestopanswers.xyz your new GH project. :)

@Skillmonlikestopanswers.xyz yes :)

Skillmon likes topanswers.xyz

@PauloCereda the code is already complete. I still miss unit-tests and the documentation isn't yet done (it is fairly complete, might need a few touches here and there). Shall I push it?

@Skillmonlikestopanswers.xyz ooh yes

@Skillmonlikestopanswers.xyz please mr rabbit <3

12:16 PM

@JosephWright I'm not sure if you saw this github.com/latex3/luaotfload/issues/132. Imho that would be a good idea. Can you ask github?

@UlrikeFischer It is a good plan

@JosephWright @UlrikeFischer without gh staff help could I think just make the original private: If a public repository is made private, its public forks are split off into a new network. As with deleting a public repository, one of the existing public forks is chosen to be the new parent repository and all other repositories are forked off of this new parent

Not sure if you get to choose which fork becomes the parent (otherwise not usable:-)

@DavidCarlisle I've put in a request

@JosephWright I'm sure I read once that you could do that but the gh help page on forks I looked at just now didn't seem to mention it, unless I missed something.

Skillmon likes topanswers.xyz

@PauloCereda done. Strangely the l3build tagging doesn't work correctly :(

12:29 PM

@Skillmonlikestopanswers.xyz yay

@Skillmonlikestopanswers.xyz oh no

Skillmon likes topanswers.xyz

@PauloCereda the readme tags are updated, but the dtx not, for that push I changed it by hand, but that's still an annoyance.

@Skillmonlikestopanswers.xyz Do you have your function right? It works in general ..

Skillmon likes topanswers.xyz

@JosephWright it works for expkv.dtx, but not for expkv-def.dtx and the functions are pretty much the same. I'll take a closer look.

@Skillmonlikestopanswers.xyz Link to your repo?

@UlrikeFischer, @DavidCarlisle It's done :)

Skillmon likes topanswers.xyz

@JosephWright github.com/Skillmon/tex_expkv-def

12:45 PM

@JosephWright @DavidCarlisle patch leve 4 loops:

\documentclass{book}
\usepackage[bitstream-charter]{mathdesign}
\begin{document}

		foo

		\fontfamily{phv}\selectfont
		\bfseries foo

\end{document}

@UlrikeFischer It's Not My Fault

Hello all!!

Reached 3k. It is not a palindrome but a three-zero-ending number :D

@JosephWright ;-)

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@JosephWright I'm pretty sure we all know whose fault it is, don't you agree, @UlrikeFischer?

1:12 PM

@manooooh you should remove oh from your user name to celebrate

@UlrikeFischer we should have a Henry Ford default option for font changes.

@DavidCarlisle Henry Ford default option?

That sounds like a reference to something, but I'm not sure what.

@FaheemMitha you can have any font you like, as long as it's cmr10

@DavidCarlisle Ah. So a reference to any color Model T, as long as it's black?

I'd like to suggest the henryford color scheme. — David Carlisle Jan 22 at 19:52

@DavidCarlisle we will drop AIX checking for arara, who needs those wacky OSes. :)

1:30 PM

@DavidCarlisle I don't know why I chose my username with a lot of o's. I think you are right

@PauloCereda booo first 3 years here I had an AIX box on my desk.

@DavidCarlisle :D

@PauloCereda kind of fun to have a desktop machine that cost more than your annual salary:-)

@DavidCarlisle ooh powerful machine :)

@PauloCereda probably not as powerful as my current phone, but yes

1:44 PM

@DavidCarlisle :)

@DavidCarlisle have you used Sun Sparc?

@PauloCereda yes although more sunos (in manchester before I came here)

@DavidCarlisle :)

@PauloCereda oh I have an answer:

86

A: How was TeX output visualised on screen, back in the day?

I started using TeX in 1987 on SunBSD (later sunos later solaris) using the dviview previewer from the vortex project. That is still one of the best viewers around, you could select individual characters ask what font they were in, and the rendering was as good as the (monochrome) screen could ha...

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2:07 PM

@JosephWright sorry to bother you, but I have other work to do. Did you take a look at the build-script in that repo? (and I'm off for coffee)

@DavidCarlisle ooooooh

2:51 PM

@Skillmonlikestopanswers.xyz The issue is using string.match: you've got a -, but that's a special char, so use string.match(file, "expkv%-def.dtx") or use file == "expkv-def.dtx"

Skillmon likes topanswers.xyz

@JosephWright ahhhhh, so stupid :)

@JosephWright thank you very much!

@Skillmonlikestopanswers.xyz you are in good company: chat.stackexchange.com/transcript/message/53632135#53632135

@UlrikeFischer hmmm

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@UlrikeFischer worst thing is: I knew about -, the tags use %d%d%d%d%-%d%d%-%d%d for dates... But I reused the build.lua of expkv because they are pretty similar in that regard, so that one slipped through during the adaptations for expkv-def.

3:17 PM

@PauloCereda I started with an Apollo workstation at the university around 1991 --- and I had a PC where I run dvivga at home, before installing a proto-linux there...

Skillmon likes topanswers.xyz

@Rmano In 1991 one half of me was an ovum. The other half didn't exist yet.

Is datatool and supertabular incompatible?

\begin{filecontents*}{test.csv}
A,B
aa,bb
11,22
\end{filecontents*}

\documentclass{article}

\usepackage{datatool}
\usepackage{supertabular}

\begin{document}

\DTLloaddb{AB}{test.csv}

\begin{supertabular}{ll}
column A & column B \\
\DTLforeach*{AB}{\colA=A,\colB=B}{\colA & \colB \\}
\end{supertabular}

\end{document}

^^ This works if I change supertabular to tabular

@Skillmonlikestopanswers.xyz :-)

3:33 PM

@yo' probably not that surprising, unlike <other table packages I could mention> supertabular needs to count rows to know when to page break, so it probably can't break, end the halign and restart one midway through the loop.

@DavidCarlisle yeah, but then it's puzzling that Nicola recommended it somewhere...

@yo' maybe she had a special case and its broken over time (probably it wouldn't bee to hard for dtlforeach to take over the counting and do whatever supertabular needs, but I haven't looked at the code

@DavidCarlisle well, it's not for me and probably not critical... (I'm really asking with my OL supp hat on this time :) )

@yo' I would normally avoid to build the tabular directly. I would store the rows in a macro and to push them one in one go.

@UlrikeFischer I'd just make , catcode 4 and input the csv file:-)

3:43 PM

@UlrikeFischer I suggested a {description} :-)

@DavidCarlisle and what about the \\?

@UlrikeFischer \obeylines\let\@@par\\ (or alike) :-)

but anyway, building the table in a macro is a workable way (+1), but it's not needed in this case I think...

4:44 PM

@JosephWright the following document gives a warning pdfTeX warning (dest): name{chapter.1} has been referenced but does not exist in the log. Do you have any idea how one could catch this in a test file? Currently it is stripped from the tlg, and so there is not difference between the wrong and the corrected behaviour ;-(.

\documentclass{book}
\usepackage[destlabel=true]{hyperref}
\usepackage{bookmark}
\begin{document}
\chapter{Test}
\label{sec:chap}
\end{document}

5:04 PM

@UlrikeFischer er probably abuse but

\documentclass{book}
\input{regression-test}
\makeatletter
\let\@@end\@@@end
\makeatother
\usepackage[destlabel=true]{hyperref}
\usepackage{bookmark}
\begin{document}
\chapter{Test}
\label{sec:chap}
\end{document}

\csname @^{\aleph_0} end\endcsname

@DavidCarlisle I get a completly empty tlg with this.

@UlrikeFischer I did wonder if I should see what tlg it makes rather than just looking at the log from a pdftex run:-)

@DavidCarlisle just trying with \START ;-)

@UlrikeFischer if you used luatex I think you could get control right at the end to typeout END-TEST-LOG

@UlrikeFischer ah yes you need to start, you just don't need to end except Joseph will defeat you anyway:-0

@UlrikeFischer if there is no END-TEST-log then this comes in to play:

    elseif line == "END-TEST-LOG" or
      match(line, "^Here is how much of .?.?.?TeX\'s memory you used:") then

@UlrikeFischer but the Here is how much line is in the log before the dest warning, so you still lose it

5:21 PM

@UlrikeFischer Test against the intermediate files?

@JosephWright what do you mean?

@UlrikeFischer try this

\documentclass{book}
\input{regression-test}
\makeatletter
\let\@@end\@@@end
\tracingstats=0
\makeatother
\usepackage[destlabel=true]{hyperref}
\usepackage{bookmark}
\begin{document}
\START
\chapter{Test}
\label{sec:chap}
\end{document}

@DavidCarlisle nice trick. Check failed ;-). But one sees fonts <../cmbx12.pfb> so I probably need tlg for all engines.

@UlrikeFischer that's probably easier than having a custom normalise_log function, as that is half of l3build-check ...

@DavidCarlisle I added the testfiles to bookmark (in a test branch). Perhaps you could try if they pass for you.

1 hour later…

6:57 PM

Check failed with difference files
- ./build/test/issue1-destlabel.xetex.diff

$ more ./build/test/issue1-destlabel.xetex.diff
*** ./build/test/issue1-destlabel.xetex.tlg 2020-02-26 18:56:05.370927200 +0
000
--- ./build/test/issue1-destlabel.xetex.log 2020-02-26 18:56:10.816592600 +0
000
***************
*** 13,16 ****
Package atveryend Info: Empty hook `AtEndAfterFileList' on input line ....
Package atveryend Info: Empty hook `AtVeryVeryEnd' on input line ....
)
! Output written on issue1-destlabel.xdv (1 page, 1432 bytes).

@UlrikeFischer ^^

@DavidCarlisle your xetex produces larger files ;-(

@UlrikeFischer yep not sure why...

@DavidCarlisle well xdv contains pathes or not?

@UlrikeFischer yes

@UlrikeFischer the xdv has six instances of /usr/local/texlive/2019/texmf-dist/fonts/opentype/public/lm/

What's the correct term for a letter that is sent to multiple recipients? I've been using the term "form letter", but I just realised that isn't actually correct.

The same letter, but addressed to multiple people, to be clear.

7:02 PM

@FaheemMitha spam? :)

@PauloCereda Not helpful.

@PauloCereda that was first thing I thought of but decided it was too silly for what is presumably a serious question.

@DavidCarlisle :)

@FaheemMitha not sure there is a general term, also do you mean each person gets a letter just to them or each is addressed to everyone: circular, newsletter, mailshot, letter, ...

@UlrikeFischer I suppose the font could be copied locally or you could use \nullfont or ....

@DavidCarlisle Let's say that each person gets a letter addressed to them, but it's the same letter. Though I've also sent a group of people a copy of a letter addressed to one person.

7:05 PM

@DavidCarlisle the xetex test isn't interesting anyway. It doesn't notify about the missing destination, one needs the xdvipdfmx output here. So if the other work, one could simply ignore xetex.

I think the latter form is generally preferable, though.

@UlrikeFischer sounds OK to me.

@DavidCarlisle I will move them in a "testfiles-noxetex" folder. Does the build.lua need a correction regarding the hyphen?

@UlrikeFischer yes not done that yet but if you are not in a rush I could do that to all the ho-tex ones at the same time, I was also going to extend it to bump the copyright year to the current year

@DavidCarlisle there is no rush. I think it should be tried a bit first anyway - it wouldn't be good to break bookmark ;-). If you correct it, do it (also) in the destlabel-1 branch.

7:17 PM

@UlrikeFischer OK will try to do it this evening. I gather there is snow expected in Germany tomorrow (Wir schicken den Jungen)

@DavidCarlisle we had a bit snow today, but it was harmless. In the Eifel they can be a bit more, but I doubt that it will be very much.

@UlrikeFischer need to be at school by 4:30 in the morning :(

@DavidCarlisle 4:30 is not a time that exists for me ;-)

@DavidCarlisle ooh

@UlrikeFischer SNOW?!

@PauloCereda a few snowflakes. Nothing serious. A few years ago we were driving to the Eifel at this time and got stuck near the hotel because of the snow and they had to pull us with a tractor to the entrance.

7:32 PM

@UlrikeFischer oh no

@PauloCereda it was rather fun.

7:46 PM

@UlrikeFischer ooh :)

8:38 PM

@UlrikeFischer hope I got that right, pushing to 50 repositories at once:-) (I'll sort out the branch version afterwards)

@DavidCarlisle hm. You seem to have tagged a lot. bookmark changed from v1.28 to v1.31 ;-)

@UlrikeFischer yes just noticed that when I got a merge conflict moving it to your branch, I'll clean up, sorry

@UlrikeFischer next time I'll remember not to test any changes.

@DavidCarlisle what are version numbers in view of the eternity?

Mathpix now supports image to LaTeX recognition for basic tables!

Check out this example pasting tabular data into @Overleaf and try it for yourself... http://mathpix.com

https://twitter.com/MathpixApp/status/1232750902211203072?s=20

@UlrikeFischer but I think the other 49 updates went OK:-)

@yo' I have only tried the free version but it is pretty impressiveon the things I tried (not that new table support but in general)

8:48 PM

@DavidCarlisle yep, indeed!

@yo' the real question though is could it OCR 12 days of christmas and produce xii.tex

@DavidCarlisle xii.tex is the benchmark of Kolmogorov complexity.

@PauloCereda ^^

@UlrikeFischer er try pulling now, I think I fixed up master and merged cleanly to dest branch, but had to merge in your last changes to the noxetex config

@DavidCarlisle it looks ok.

3 hours later…

11:38 PM

@UlrikeFischer thanks I thought that greek thing had come up before:-)

@DavidCarlisle ;-).

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