TeX, LaTeX and Friends - 2019-12-18

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3:39 AM

@JosephWright You can include the external Disqus provider for comments. That is whay Aditya does on the ConTeXt blog: adityam.github.io/context-blog and github.com/adityam/context-blog

4:23 AM

@HenriMenke In my experience Disqus loads unreliably. Does it load from some remote server?

4:41 AM

In pgfkeys, I want a key that will take only boolean values, to be passed to a Lua function. I'm looking at .is choice and .is if, but neither of them seem to do that.

@FaheemMitha I have no idea.

@FaheemMitha You should ask that on the main site, accompanied by a MWE.

@HenriMenke I'll do that if I can't find an answer, of course. But it seems like it should be a very simple thing.

@FaheemMitha You can chuck something into /.code that ensures that the argument is true or false, but beyond that I can't help without MWE.

@HenriMenke Ok.

3 hours later…

7:27 AM

@HenriMenke Sure, but then one gets into stuff hosted externally, and life gets interesting; if that's an important factor, I'd stick to WordPress

7:58 AM

@JosephWright I'm not saying that you should do that. ;) But it sounded like you wanted to know how and Aditya already did it.

3 hours later…

10:39 AM

ooh Palpatine

Pablo González L

11:35 AM

@DavidCarlisle A query, after updating today noticed that the only dependence of oberdiek that remains in hyperref is hopatch, will you separate it?

@HenriMenke A query (just for playing a while with travis) was looking at pgfmanual-en-main-preamble.tex, some particular reason to load the luainputenc package? PS: Maybe update \usepackage{ifluatex} by \usepackage{iftex}.

@PabloGonzálezL plan was to not use it

Pablo González L

@DavidCarlisle Great, I'll wait for the hyperref update :)

@PabloGonzálezL isn't it only used via hycolor?

@PabloGonzálezL grr (@UlrikeFischer) I documented that xcolor-patch no longer loaded but it still is, I'll leave it that way for a bit I need to contact the xcolor author anyway and ask that he incorporates that so I'll come back to that in the new year.

Paulo, I think you have access to a Windows-system to test your arara-rules.
Is this correct?

Pablo González L

@DavidCarlisle Actually it loads xcolor-patch, the other day I read here in the chat that this package would no longer be necessary, am I right?

@UlrikeFischer blame?

11:50 AM

@cis no, I don't. :( Only Linux and Mac.

@PabloGonzálezL it is still necessary as it still patches one remaining xcolor bug. But I don't think that hyperref should do such a patch, certainly not over many years. It doesn't make much sense that the Gray color model works only correctly if hyperref is loaded.

@PabloGonzálezL I planned to take it out (but I was running tests with and without it) but it got left in. The fix to the Gray color conversion is still needed (if you use Gray color model) so it's probably best to leave it in until the fix is added to xcolor, or at least give the xcolor maintainer time to adjust.) or probably in the end hyperref will use l3color anyway.

@UlrikeFischer lots of ctan-ann messages this morning:-)

@DavidCarlisle there is apart from xcolor-patch only one other hit for hopatch: yathesis.cls.

@UlrikeFischer I wasn't planning to remove it from ctan, just leave it in oberdiek

Pablo González L

@UlrikeFischer @DavidCarlisle hyperref will be written in expl3 in the future?

12:02 PM

@DavidCarlisle well it is part of the filehook etc mess. It would be nice to reduce this a bit ;-).

@PauloCereda How do you test the Windows-functionallity of the arara rules?

@cis I don't. I simply assume things are accessible through path.

@PabloGonzálezL probably some of the back end stuff (since it is in the format anyway now)

Pablo González L

@DavidCarlisle This is a big step ... there are great novelties coming for this 2020 :)

@PauloCereda Mmmhh.... Because I think, this command line (!) method could work; especially for arara

6

A: Call Sage in TeXstudio (Windows)

As explained below we can work around most issues raised. And here is the customising to run in ubiquitous TeXworks (TeXstudio in detail below). SageMaths is developed to run with a customised version of Python currently undergoing changes from version 2.7 to 3.x. SageTex is not provided as a ...

I went some steps further, but I get still several errors...

For Info:

C:\Users\ccc\Desktop\Test\SageTeX>bash -l /opt/sagemath-8.9/sage 'C:/Users/ccc/D
esktop/Test/SageTeX/sagebsp01.sagetex.sage'
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "/opt/sagemath-8.9/src/bin/sage-preparse", line 299, in <module>
    do_preparse(f)
  File "/opt/sagemath-8.9/src/bin/sage-preparse", line 147, in do_preparse
    with atomic_write(fname) as f:
  File "/opt/sagemath-8.9/local/lib/python2.7/site-packages/sage/misc/temporary_
file.py", line 422, in __enter__
    fd, name = tempfile.mkstemp(dir=self.tmpdir)

Maybe he could not find 'sagetex'

12:13 PM

@cis `C:/Users/ccc/D
esktop/Test/SageTeX/sagebsp01.sagetex.sage` is almost certainly the wrong path you need to find out what the path is to that in the posix filesystem being used by the sagetex shell (it will not start with c:)

Pablo González L

@DavidCarlisle If I have already loaded the graphicx package and later there is the \usepackage[xetex]{graphics} line, is it necessary?...(just out of curiosity, I'm looking at pgfmanual-xetex.cfg).

@cis Well, once it works on your machine you can make arara call it. But until then arara is the wrong tool because it just "remembers what you have run".

@DavidCarlisle Yes, I think so too. But unlikley I am not such a OS-expert, that I have a plan...

12:33 PM

@cis That has nothing to do with expertise but only with following instructions. Did you try /cygdrive/c as suggested in the answer? Where in the answer did you stop following instructions. Where do you get your access denied error you have been talking about?

@PabloGonzálezL you would get an error unless it was loaded with [xetex] the first time

:52958974 OK, I do:

set path=C:\Programme\SageMath8.9\runtime\bin;%path%
bash -l /opt/sagemath-8.9/sage 'C:/Users/ccc/Desktop/Test/SageTeX/sagebsp01.sagetex.sage'

After the 2nd step I get, these errors

Pablo González L

1:01 PM

@DavidCarlisle Ok, but, it's really necessary to add \usepackage[xetex]{graphics} or I can remove it without problems?

@DavidCarlisle To all this, if you communicate with the author of `xcolor` perhaps you can ask him to add `xxcolor` which is in `pgf/tikz`, quoting the author "I hope that
the commands in xxcolor will some day migrate to xcolor, such that this package becomes superfluous"

@PabloGonzálezL l3color will eat all of them (seriously)

expl3 is coming for everything

Nom nom nom

Pablo González L

@JosephWright The force is with expl3:)

@DavidCarlisle I don't agree that one should not recommend Mercurial to a beginner.

It's actually a better choice for a beginner then either git or svn.

From a usability POV.

@FaheemMitha Really? But where are they going to use it?

@FaheemMitha Based on the CLI or a GUI?

1:17 PM

@JosephWright I don't understand the question. It runs on all operating systems.

@PabloGonzálezL I don't understand the question sorry. It is almost never necessary to specify a driver option such as [xetex]

@FaheemMitha it's my answer so I get to choose.

@JosephWright I use the CLI, personally. It works fine. And is simple to use. There are GUIs available, but I doubt they have the full functionality. TortoiseHg used to be popular. Perhaps it still is. I haven't really kept up with what GUIs people are using now.

@FaheemMitha I think it would be a disservice to recommend a system with essentially vanishing user base and community support compared to the amount of support they can easily find with svn or git.

@DavidCarlisle I don't think it has vanishing user base or community support.

It's got less people using it, of course. Though accurate statistics are hard to come by.

I find it ironical that TeX developers are recommending software based on popularity.

@FaheemMitha I know you think that but you are wrong:-) Also the main thrust of my answer was to use a web based server (to get external backup as well as version control) the number of servers offering hg is unarguably declining.

1:23 PM

@DavidCarlisle Wrong about what? The vanishing user base and community support?

@FaheemMitha for a beginner just tracking a thesis essentially the only commands you need to know are svn commit or git add/git commit/git push or GUI versions of the same so arguments about usability of the hg interface compared to git or svn don't really apply

@FaheemMitha yes

And you don't actually need to push stuff to GitHub. They don't own the only machines in the world. You can push to any other machine just fine. You just need a remote hg installation on the other machine, and ssh access. And/or one could set up a private web server.

@DavidCarlisle I don't see how one can know what the user base of Mercurial is.

@FaheemMitha if you read my answer you would see I said github wasn't the only option and listed sourceforge, bitbucket. gitlab

I also see comments on the net about TeX being dying or dead. I give them all the attention that they deserve.

Pablo González L

@DavidCarlisle That's the answer I was looking for, I was trying to compile the pgf/tikz documentation and lines like that appear in various .cfg files and I had the impression that they were not necessary, thank you very much :)

1:26 PM

@DavidCarlisle Yes, I'm aware that there are other alternatives. That wasn't my point. It's useful to have third-party web sites for repositories. It's not essential. Currently the only Mercurial option seems to be sourcehut, which granted is far from ideal. But one hopes some other services will arrive to replace Bitbucket.

@FaheemMitha This is in the context of recommending a system to a total beginner. If ypu recommend hg they are probably the only person in their institution using it, if you recommend git or svn then there are probably other people at the same institution already using it and help is more readily available.

@FaheemMitha so that confirms my recommendation in my answer.

@DavidCarlisle If you want to confine oneself to locally available help, then sure.

hg is a very toxic substance, which has serious effects on both human health and the environment, and thus banned. :)

2

@DavidCarlisle If one considers third party sites for hosting repositories as essential, sure. I don't. It's more of a "nice to have". And the situation can change again. Once BB itself was a startup.

@PauloCereda Thanks. That's a really helpful contribution to the discussion.

@FaheemMitha or count answers on stackoverflow tagged git v tagged hg or any other measure. I am not saying mercurial is a bad system I'm just saying it would be a bad choice to recommend in the context of the given question. relatively few users, almost no online free server support, and no actual advantages over git or svn for the basic use case outlined.

1:32 PM

@DavidCarlisle The problem with steering away people from other alternatives is that it's a good way to deprive them of user support. Especially advice coming from a domain expert (excuse the corporate jargon) is likely to be taken more seriously. But I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree.

@FaheemMitha for an answer to a beginner question I can't really believe you are suggesting telling people to host their own server set up ssh access to it compared to just clicking on a "new repository" button in a hosted web service. Setting up the infrastructure you are suggesting is vastly more complicated than using any of the version control systems.

@DavidCarlisle I guess it depends on what one thinks of as a beginner.

Regular backups of ones system is also an adequate way to go. Services like GitHub are more significant when one wants to make the code public.

My private repositories were never on such services, anyway. Because of the security factor.

@FaheemMitha sorry but you are letting your personal perferences winning over arguments. It is not about what you prefer, or what is best for the future of mercurial but what is best for the user. And services like Github are also useful for private repos - I worked in the past months in more than one project using them.

Pablo González L

1:54 PM

@UlrikeFischer You collaborate with @HenriMenke in pgf/tikz?

@FaheemMitha the OP said they did not know what git or svn was so I think it is fair to assume if they start using either system they are a beginner. I think you haven't quite understood how these help sites work:-)

@PabloGonzálezL I have been invited, but I'm not really active, unless Henri ask a specific question.

Pablo González L

@UlrikeFischer Ha, I understand, I thought you were directly involved, I have the slight impression that the part of the documentation (which is automated in travis :) needs some maintenance, as far as package loading in pgfmanual-en-main-preamble.tex and in the .cfg files is concerned.

2:11 PM

@PabloGonzálezL it is a quite large package. You could ask Henri if he wants some help to go through it.

2:49 PM

@SageTeX

I don't understand why the process has to be so complicated anyway:

pdflatex * .tex
say * .sagetex.sage
pdflatex * .tex

It should be possible to program sagetex.sty that it
- recognizes the operating system
- enters the necessary paths
- and then one run pdflatex works (and runs the necessary, Python / Sage / ...) in the background.

I was of the opinion that there are packages that do something similar, that is, different necessary runs.

Harald Hanche-Olsen

3:09 PM

Did anyone here look at PreTeXt? All I found on the site is an answer by @AlanMunn. So the answer is yes … but I am curious of someone here has any experience worth sharing.

@HaraldHanche-Olsen That answer sums up my entire experience. :)

@PauloCereda Freddy, however, is a god.

@AlanMunn Crazy little thing called chemistry. :)

@PauloCereda :)

Harald Hanche-Olsen

@AlanMunn And so, perhaps the entire experience of the tex.se population?

@HaraldHanche-Olsen Yes, I speak for all.

3:28 PM

@AlanMunn ooh

@HaraldHanche-Olsen I was on a conference call with one of its developers the other day but I haven't used it.

Harald Hanche-Olsen

@DavidCarlisle Okay. I am mostly curious about whether it is best suited for book length subject matter, or if it works equally well for shorter notes. Perhaps it is too much work learning it, unless you really want to write a book.

4:38 PM

@HaraldHanche-Olsen the emphasis (as far as I can tell from the call) is more on semantic annotations to get better more accessible output rather than being particularly good for typesetting (but perhaps that's just because that was the subject of conversation)

4:48 PM

@AlanMunn Freddy?

5:08 PM

@FaheemMitha Lead singer of Queen

1 hour later…

6:37 PM

@AlanMunn I see. I, however, am failing to see a connection.

Oh, Freddie Mercury. Right. You realise that wasn't his real name, though?

1 hour later…

7:51 PM

SageTeX.....

Ok, I understand some 'bits' the complete command should be

C:\Programme\SageMath8.9\runtime\bin\bash -l
      C:/Programme/SageMath8.9/runtime/opt/sagemath-8.9/sage
          C:/Users/ccc/Desktop/Test/SageTeX/sagebsp01.sagetex.sage

But this gives the error

C:\Users\ccc\Desktop\Test\SageTeX>C:\Programme\SageMath8.9\runtime\bin\bash -l C
:/Programme/SageMath8.9/runtime/opt/sagemath-8.9/sage C:/Users/ccc/Desktop/Test/
SageTeX/sagebsp01.sagetex.sage
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "/opt/sagemath-8.9/src/bin/sage-preparse", line 299, in <module>
    do_preparse(f)
  File "/opt/sagemath-8.9/src/bin/sage-preparse", line 147, in do_preparse
    with atomic_write(fname) as f:
  File "/opt/sagemath-8.9/local/lib/python2.7/site-packages/sage/misc/temporary_

I do not know what to do...

8:16 PM

Good evening! I'm currently stucking on a base problem, I want a table over multiple pages. A row contains multiple itemizes. My problem now is, that longtable will not break and the content in a row with to much data is out of the visible area of the current page. Is using longtable the wrong approach? Thanks!

8:33 PM

SageTeX again......

C:\Programme\SageMath8.9\runtime\bin\bash -l
C:/Programme/SageMath8.9/runtime/opt/sagemath-8.9/sage

starts Sage in the Windows command line!!!!

user image

But the rest of the command

C:\Programme\SageMath8.9\runtime\bin\bash -l
C:/Programme/SageMath8.9/runtime/opt/sagemath-8.9/sage
C:/Users/ccc/Desktop/Test/SageTeX/sagebsp01.sagetex.sage

last line, seems to be wrong....

8:46 PM

@PabloGonzálezL That was all written before my time and since it hasn't broken yet, I didn't really see a need to modify it. PGF is an enormous code base, so you don't really want to touch more files than absolutely necessary.

8:57 PM

@FaheemMitha Yes, but that wouldn't make a good joke...

@cis Have you tried to use the path specification from the answer you have referred to multiple times?

@TeXnician Ohhhmmmm, which of my referations do you mean?

@TeXnician No, probably not ... I don't really have a clue, sorry.

DEK answers a question on EL&L

Damn it! So close! :(

I would have thought the command should look like this:

C:\Programme\SageMath8.9\runtime\bin\bash -l C:/Programme/SageMath8.9/runtime/opt/sagemath-8.9/sage load('/home/sage/Desktop/Test/SageTeX/sagebsp01.sagetex.sage')

but he doesn't.... :(

9:29 PM

It is completely clear that you have about 10,000 pages more knowledge here than I do. So have a little indulgence with me. And look after me if I don't always understand and implement everything immediately.

If the program Sage starts with

C:\Programme\SageMath8.9\runtime\bin\bash -l C:/Programme/SageMath8.9/runtime/opt/sagemath-8.9/sage

the rest should be trivial.

So maybe you have an idea what the complete and correct command should look like?

In any case, thank you for your help and for your interest.

PS: I do not understand anyway why SageTeX is executed via a package, which leads to the run pdflatex - sage - pdflatex.
In my opinion, it would make more sense a translation method such as "sagetex example.tex" (such as "phytontex example.tex" or something like that).

If you can program on such a level, you could easily do that, I think. But now you can complain about it page by page; it is so difficult as it is...

@MAGYS are you sure you want a table and not a list?

9:51 PM

@DavidCarlisle I tried to have a list in a longtable, but I think this was not a good idea to begin with. Found just now that I need to use multirow/column to get it working. But it was not readable after allin a good way. So just time wasted. :)

@MAGYS no I meant use a list rather than a table as the outer structure. a lot of 2-column tables would be better as lists for example

@DavidCarlisle That would've worked also. Sometimes it would be that easy, thanks. :)

10:25 PM

@AlanMunn my heart almost stopped for a minute. :)

11:23 PM

@PauloCereda Well he did leave a comment on a blog a few months ago: scottaaronson.com/blog/?p=4278

Also he sometimes makes edits to Wikipedia

BTW (completely unrelated), here's a very nice post about four kinds of documentation: divio.com/blog/documentation — it's an interesting exercise to consider prominent pieces of documentation in the TeX world (The TeXbook, the PGF/TikZ manual, etc) and think about how well they serve the four purposes...

11:38 PM

@PauloCereda My heart stands still, because I con not have sagtex (in effective way)

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