TeX, LaTeX and Friends

Joseph Wright

7:09 AM

@DavidCarlisle Exciting Git things happening ...

Ulrike Fischer

7:23 AM

@JosephWright ?

Joseph Wright

@UlrikeFischer Merges for LaTeX2e

Ulrike Fischer

@JosephWright that was really a short-lived branch ;-)

Joseph Wright

@UlrikeFischer Yes: the GitFlow approach says you have it slightly longer-lived, but we don't really need that: I just wanted to have a way of setting patch level, etc., in some clear way

@UlrikeFischer Now there will be a short-lived hotfix one ...

David Carlisle

7:57 AM

@JosephWright I had my own exciting git merges/forced push in bidi-tex/bidi last night:-)

Joseph Wright

@DavidCarlisle See team mail ...

@DavidCarlisle Had to force push, at least to get some kind of clear history

Ulrike Fischer

@JosephWright how do I correctly update the master? Simply git pull?

David Carlisle

@JosephWright ah:-)

@UlrikeFischer yes it should work (but if you have any unpushed commits then you are likely to get merge conflicts) (I think:-)

Ulrike Fischer

@DavidCarlisle I get merge conflicts and have "diverging commits", but it is not from changes I made ...

David Carlisle

If that doesn't fix it, git.txt contains the phone number of a friend of mine who understands git. Just wait through a few minutes of 'It's really pretty simple, just think of branches as...' and eventually you'll learn the commands that will fix everything.

Ulrike Fischer

8:13 AM

@DavidCarlisle that's the fall back plan ;-)

Joseph Wright

@UlrikeFischer Yeah, unfortunate but I'm not sure avoidable

@DavidCarlisle, @UlrikeFischer The problem really was we started with some dev commits in master, I backed them out, made a new branch, and I knew we might have a problem getting things right

David Carlisle

@JosephWright my pull worked without errors, presumably as I hadn't pulled for a few days and so probably was coming from a point that matched the "new" history

Joseph Wright

@DavidCarlisle, @UlrikeFischer Like I've said on the team list, we now have a clear starting point where these is no question of undoing stuff

@DavidCarlisle Yes, that makes sense

@DavidCarlisle master branch may need to be recreated

Ulrike Fischer

@JosephWright not really a problem. I will download a fresh copy.

Joseph Wright

@UlrikeFischer git checkout master && git reset --hard origin/master

@UlrikeFischer, @DavidCarlisle Next job is to work out full set up for LaTeX2e auto-deployment

Ulrike Fischer

8:30 AM

@JosephWright to late, I have the new copy.

Ulrike Fischer

8:41 AM

@DavidCarlisle I have been looking at github.com/latex3/hyperref/issues/102, but it will need more thinking - they are too many code pathes depending on the argument for a fast shot. The best one can do for now is document that \hyperbaseurl doesn't do much sense. Imho (after the dust has settle a bit on ctan) hyperref should be uploaded with the changes we have now unless you want to add something.

David Carlisle

9:11 AM

@UlrikeFischer OK thanks, I'll try to get in xcite, then push to ctan maybe tomorrow evening.

Joseph Wright

9:27 AM

@DavidCarlisle, @UlrikeFischer Would appreciate it if you'd check that the master branch is actually right ...

Ulrike Fischer

@JosephWright what is the definition of "right"?

Joseph Wright

@UlrikeFischer 'With all the dev changes in it'

Ulrike Fischer

9:47 AM

@JosephWright well the diff says that master and develop are nearly identical. So if you didn't loose something in develop....

David Carlisle

10:04 AM

@JosephWright vvv

$ git branch
* develop
  fixlatexrelease
  master
  textcomp
  utf8-and-filenames
  utf8andspace
  xcite

$ git diff --numstat master
1       1       .travis.yml
3       3       base/ltvers.dtx

@JosephWright so as Ulrike says, not many diffs

Joseph Wright

10:35 AM

@DavidCarlisle Good :)

Lupino

Is incidentally the current maintainer of babel around here somewhere?

David Carlisle

@Lupino on the site but not usually in chat

@JosephWright @UlrikeFischer interesting conversation with Khaled re unhbox :-)

Javier Bezos

4.1k 13 16

Lupino

@DavidCarlisle i want to make sure if i found a bug when babel+lualatex+babelfont or whether i'm just too stupid…

(using texlive2019)

Joseph Wright

@Lupino Log it and let Javier take a look

Ulrike Fischer

10:56 AM

@DavidCarlisle yes saw it, pondering about the implications ...

David Carlisle

Lupino

Opened an issue in github.com/latex3/babel/issues/31

Even if it is a genuine bug and my proposed solution is valid; does someone know how to fix it locally? i am lost with all the implicit package loading of babel, some are only loaded at \begin{document}, others before \documentclass is even read…

Ulrike Fischer

@Lupino can't you make an example which doesn't use local fonts?

Lupino

11:14 AM

\documentclass[english]{book}

\usepackage{babel}
\babelprovide{da}
\babelfont{rm}[BoldFont=SourceSerifPro-Bold.otf,%
FontFace={sb}{n}{SourceSerifPro-Semibold.otf},%
]{SourceSerifPro-Regular.otf}

\begin{document}

\begin{thebibliography}{0}
\bibitem{bib-41}Marshall\foreignlanguage{da}{, Thomas Humphrey. }Citizenship and Social Class and Other Essays. Cambridge: Cambridge University Press, 1950.
\end{thebibliography}
\end{document}

like that? i hope adobe/sourceserifpro/ is part of any texlive-distro…

BTW, the markup is so ugly because it is the result of a word2tex conversion… Word is to blame...

Ulrike Fischer

@Lupino where do see unwanted white space? Can you make a screenshot of your output?

Lupino

11:32 AM

right there where in the source "\foreignlanguage" is…

David Carlisle

@Lupino If you mean removing space from the .def file, simply put a copy in the local directory alongside your document for testing that should work.

Ulrike Fischer

@Lupino I'm not getting it. Make your log-file available somewhere.

David Carlisle

@UlrikeFischer I am not seeing space either (but just redoing tlmgr update to be sure)

Lupino

@DavidCarlisle that didnt work:

This is LuaTeX, Version 1.10.0 (TeX Live 2019)
restricted system commands enabled.
(./test.tex
LaTeX2e <2018-12-01>

luaotfload | main : initialization completed in 0.075 seconds
(/usr/local/texlive/2019/texmf-dist/tex/latex/base/book.cls
Document Class: book 2018/09/03 v1.4i Standard LaTeX document class
(./bk10.clo)) (/usr/local/texlive/2019/texmf-dist/tex/generic/babel/babel.sty
(/usr/local/texlive/2019/texmf-dist/tex/generic/babel/switch.def)
(./luababel.def

Ulrike Fischer

@Lupino why do you have a local bk10.clo? And please show the log-file not the terminal output.

Lupino

11:40 AM

what kinda worked was to add \AtBeginDocument{\makeatletter\input luababel.def\makeatother}
right before \begin{ocument}, but then i got some ! LaTeX Error: Command \babelfont already defined.
Or name \end... illegal, see p.192 of the manual.

Ulrike Fischer

@Lupino are you sure that you didn't have a local luababel.def around which interfered? In my version line 69 has no \AddBabelHook command.

David Carlisle

@Lupino delete ./luababel.def, then what does the log look like?

Lupino

This is LuaTeX, Version 1.10.0 (TeX Live 2019) (format=lualatex 2019.5.6) 1 OCT 2019 13:41
restricted system commands enabled.
**test
(./test.tex
LaTeX2e <2018-12-01>
Lua module: luaotfload-main 2019-02-14 2.96 luaotfload entry point
Lua module: luaotfload-init 2019-02-14 2.96 luaotfload submodule / initializatio
n
Lua module: lualibs 2019-02-14 2.64 ConTeXt Lua standard libraries.
Lua module: lualibs-extended 2019-02-14 2.64 ConTeXt Lua libraries -- extended c
ollection.
Lua module: luaotfload-log 2019-02-14 2.96 luaotfload submodule / logging

daleif

Is this a know deficiency of lmodern?

\documentclass[12pt]{article}
\usepackage{amsmath,amssymb}
\usepackage{lmodern} % see \bigl size without lmodern
\begin{document}
\[
(\bigl((
\]
\end{document}

The jump is too high IMO. Does not appear under 10pt

Ulrike Fischer

@Lupino your system is not up-to-date, luaotfload is too old, and babel too: I have 2019/09/27 3.34.

Lupino

11:46 AM

@DavidCarlisle is deleted. And no, none of the macros TeX complaines about is in luababel.def. That's why i was lost. I couldn't find the definition for \babelfont anywhere in the babel-tree

David Carlisle

@Lupino with an up to date texlive I get no space in your example

Lupino

okay, i have to talk to our company's admins, i guess.... wish me luck....

(i always thought, texlive-vintages are fixed, how come that there are different package versions for the same textlive year?)

David Carlisle

@daleif the extension font at 6pt is used for some reason, looks a bit odd:

....\OT1/lmr/m/n/12 (
....\hbox(12.00008+6.00009)x5.97223
.....\mathon
.....\hbox(12.00008+6.00009)x5.97223
......\hbox(0.39998+17.60019)x5.97223, shifted -11.6001
.......\OMX/lmex/m/n/6 ^^P
......\vbox(10.19998+4.19998)x0.0
......\hbox(0.0+0.0)x0.0, shifted -3.0
.....\mathoff
....\OT1/lmr/m/n/12 (

daleif

bug?

David Carlisle

hmm actually it's the 10pt one, just gets the m/n/6 name not sure if the equivalent of exscale package ought to be the default for lm, I'll look later

@daleif no lmex is only available as lmex10.pfb looking in texlive, so not much latex can do about that it's a font issue.

Ulrike Fischer

11:55 AM

@DavidCarlisle perhaps related tex.stackexchange.com/a/339277/2388

David Carlisle

@UlrikeFischer ah excellent answer, who wrote that!

Ulrike Fischer

@DavidCarlisle but one of the comment says "you are doomed then"

David Carlisle

@UlrikeFischer see the stamp above

Joseph Wright

@UlrikeFischer, @DavidCarlisle Could you see if the latest l3build checkin works 'safely'?

Ulrike Fischer

@JosephWright what do you mean? What would be an unsafe checkin?

David Carlisle

11:59 AM

@JosephWright git pull works on master

Joseph Wright

@UlrikeFischer The change in normalisation

Ulrike Fischer

@JosephWright hm. How should I test it?

David Carlisle

@JosephWright will try some l3builds on my repos later

Joseph Wright

@UlrikeFischer Install, test some repos still pass their tests

@UlrikeFischer I'm trying to allow us to use texmfdir in the LaTeX2e tests

Ulrike Fischer

@JosephWright Ok, will try in the afternoon.

daleif

12:14 PM

@DavidCarlisle that is what I mean a bug in the font. kpfonts has a similar one that I reported to the author years ago

David Carlisle

@daleif I think it's come up before can't search now, @barbarabeeton may recall.

Paulo Cereda

12:41 PM

@DavidCarlisle ooh the English bloke

David Carlisle

@JosephWright @UlrikeFischer spot the difference:

> \r@f:l1l2=macro:
->{1}{1}{Population 1 is shifted to the left with a distance of $Δ=\log RR/β$
 }{figure.1}{}.
<recently read> \r@f:l1l2

l.20 ...a distance of $Δ=\log RR/β$ }{figure.1}{}}

?
> \reserved@a=macro:
->{1}{1}{Population 1 is shifted to the left with a distance of $Δ=\log RR/β$
 }{figure.1}{}.
\@newl@bel ...e #1@#2\endcsname \show \reserved@a
                                                  \@tempswatrue \fi

Joseph Wright

@DavidCarlisle Where's that?

David Carlisle

@JosephWright unicode-math github issue just posted (I added the \show) one is the internal ref and the other is as read back from the aux file catcode mismatch....

Ulrike Fischer

12:58 PM

@DavidCarlisle nice. Life was easier when the aux-file contained only some ascii chars.

David Carlisle

1:26 PM

@UlrikeFischer yes you're right that it's unicode-math not hyperref, so we can blame Will?

Ulrike Fischer

@DavidCarlisle It is a bit questionable that it changes the catcode. But beside this. Should the label-tracking system be put of the track by a catcode change?

\documentclass{article}
\begin{document}

\catcode`\1=11
cccc\label{abc}
\end{document}

Paulo Cereda

@DavidCarlisle ooh

Paulo Cereda

1:54 PM

ooh there's a wolf

Hi mr. wolf

David Carlisle

2:08 PM

@UlrikeFischer it could use (pdf)strcmp instead of ifx but that would be quite a change, although actually all that matters is that the generated csnames are the same so perhaps best would be to compare them in a catcode neutral way....

Ulrike Fischer

@DavidCarlisle it opens the can of worms if the catcode regime when the aux-file is read in needs more control. Perhaps blaming Will is easier.

David Carlisle

@UlrikeFischer we need Joseph's special ping powers as Will's not been here recently enough for us to ping the blame on him.

Ulrike Fischer

@DavidCarlisle can we blame you for sansmathaccent trying to patch bm.sty with filehook.sty?

David Carlisle

@UlrikeFischer no

Joseph Wright

@WillRobertson ^^^

@DavidCarlisle Done ;)

David Carlisle

2:19 PM

@UlrikeFischer the justified exercise of power. @JosephWright could be P.M.

egreg

2:30 PM

@PauloCereda Werewolf?

Paulo Cereda

@egreg therewolf. :)

sollniss

not really latex related but i don't know where else to ask. is there some guideline or style guide on when to make a figure (or table for that matter) a wrapfigure (inline) and whether to place it on the left or right if the text spans over the whole page?
right now i'm just doing anything thats smaller than half of the page as a wrapfigure and place it on a random side

David Carlisle

2:59 PM

@sollniss individual publications have guidelines (eg all figures at the end) not sure you can guidelines in general.

Lupino

@UlrikeFischer after updating the luaotfload to v3.00 (from friday) i got

luaotfload | load : FATAL ERROR
luaotfload | load : × Failed to load module "luaotfload-notdef.lua".
luaotfload | load : × Error message:
luaotfload | load : × "[string \"-- luatex-core security and io overloads
.......\"]:45: bad argument #1 to 'io_open' (string expected, got nil)".

stack traceback:
...019/texmf-dist/tex/luatex/luaotfload/luaotfload-main.lua:171: in
local 'loadmodule'
...019/texmf-dist/tex/luatex/luaotfload/luaotfload-main.lua:302: in

Ulrike Fischer

@Lupino did you update everything? Or only this package?

Lupino

only this and babel

thing is that we have a lot of projects running on our production servers, and a full blown update could break more than it repairs...

Ulrike Fischer

@Lupino well you need ctan.org/pkg/unicode-data

Joseph Wright

@UlrikeFischer Beat me to it!

Ulrike Fischer

3:04 PM

@JosephWright ;-) But a better error message would be good @MarcelKrüger

Joseph Wright

@UlrikeFischer Yes :)

@UlrikeFischer Particularly as nothing shows in the log or even using -recorder

sollniss

does latex automatically align the baselines of pages?

David Carlisle

@UlrikeFischer skilful passing of the blame.

Paulo Cereda

@DavidCarlisle ooh

sollniss

so that if you print double sided the text of the backside doesnt shine through for example

David Carlisle

3:06 PM

@sollniss that is \flushbottom (which may or may not be the default, depending on the class)

@sollniss oh you mean all baselines, no.

Lupino

@UlrikeFischer okay, i try tomorrow… although a non-invasive, local solution would be welcome

sollniss

@DavidCarlisle is there a way to do that?

David Carlisle

@sollniss search the site for grid typesetting, but tex really doesn't want to help with that, it's entire box and glue typesetting model is built around the idea of stretching space. However there are packages that support this

Ulrike Fischer

@Lupino well you didn't needed to update luaotfload - the problem was probably in babel. And the unicode-data files can be copied in the current directory. That should work.

sollniss

@DavidCarlisle ok i'll google a bit

ConTeXt seems to be able to do it

Lupino

3:10 PM

@UlrikeFischer okay, i'll try. Thank for now :)

David Carlisle

@sollniss I was going to mention that (it is easier if you restrict to luatex)

sollniss

is context compatible with normal latex?

David Carlisle

@sollniss it is completely different to latex, and unlike latex (which runs over tex, pdftex, xetex, etc) it only works with luatex.

sollniss

according to wikipedia the "mark ii" version uses pdftex and xetex

David Carlisle

@sollniss also it depends a lot on the type of text you have. If you just have text and section headings it is essentially easy to stay on a grid, you just have to make sure that heading and paragraph spacing ensures multiples of baselineskip, but if you have displayed equations (in particular) forcing that the display always takes a multiple of \baselineskip` means adjusting tex's normal page control in several places

@sollniss oh yes sure, but that is pre-history luatex didn't exist.

sollniss

3:16 PM

i see, i have a lot of figures and equations

David Carlisle

@sollniss so it is the simplest things that are tricky, zzz \[1=x^2\] yyy you need to ensure that yyy is 2 (or 3) baselines below zzz and normally in tex you never really have access to that, tex just lays out the formula as it sees fit and adds it to the current page, there is nowhere to so "how high is this formula, round that to an integer number of baselines) so of course you can redefine \[ \] not to use display math primitive and to measure things and space them by hand

... but to do a complete job you need to define a lot of things (and end up with restrictions on which packages you are compatible with)

sollniss

that sounds like something i dont want to do

David Carlisle

@sollniss no sure there are packages that do that but I'm just flagging that it's harder than it might seem and not unreasonable if the packages don't work if you load 1001 other packages all laying out their custom environments in ways that break the grid package layout.

sollniss

i'll look into ConTeXt and if it doesnt work then it doesnt work

Paulo Cereda

3:34 PM

@DavidCarlisle could you come up with the 31 days of Brexit as brexiit.tex?

2

Oh that was mean.

yo'

4:04 PM

I joined Overleaf today as a LaTeX Support & Product Specialist!

6

@PauloCereda ^^

Paulo Cereda

@yo' YAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAY

yo'

@PauloCereda :)

Joseph Wright

@yo' Get them to tweet it ;)

Paulo Cereda

@JosephWright twitter.com/paulocereda/status/1179067365490909184

David Carlisle

@yo' and you still haven't upgraded to tl2019? :-)

2

Paulo Cereda

4:16 PM

@DavidCarlisle ooh

David Carlisle

@PauloCereda I'm not mean

Paulo Cereda

@DavidCarlisle <3

Faheem Mitha

@yo' Congratulations.

yo'

@DavidCarlisle I don't need to (certainly not at my personal computer) :)

Faheem Mitha

@yo' I thought you did something in the applied sciences, though.

Didn't you do a PhD in applied math, perhaps?

yo'

4:24 PM

@FaheemMitha not that much applied, but yes.

Faheem Mitha

@yo' So you managed to get a job that actually involves TeX. :-)

yo'

@PauloCereda lol. (btw, I have a twitter account, just not a very used one) (and they all call me simply Tom...)

@FaheemMitha yep

Joseph Wright

@yo' What's your user name there?

yo'

@JosephWright that's a good question :) I have to check from my other computer

@JosephWright tohecz

Joseph Wright

@yo' Found it :)

Faheem Mitha

4:36 PM

@yo' That was your old user name here.

yo'

@FaheemMitha indeed

yo'

5:16 PM

@DavidCarlisle or did you mean Overleaf?

CarLaTeX

@yo' Contratulations!

David Carlisle

5:33 PM

@yo' yes of course:-)

yo'

5:52 PM

@DavidCarlisle well, given the length of the blog post about migration to tl18, I wonder how long the one about tl19 will be :-)

barbara beeton

6:45 PM

@DavidCarlisle and @daleif -- I vaguely remember something like this, but I no longer have access to anything I can check, so afraid I can't help. Sorry.

@yo' -- Bonne chance!

yo'

@barbarabeeton Merci!

barbara beeton

7:31 PM

@yo' -- As your first challenge, would you please take a look at the question MiKTeX not hyphenating (again), and in particular my comment on the question. (Regardless of "MiKtex" in the title, it does cite Overleaf.) I know I'm being picky, but ...

cis

Good evening my friends!

How are you?

Mr. Carlisle, what are the stocks?

David Carlisle

@cis ?

@JosephWright I think I added the right incantation to the latex2e yml file...

Joseph Wright

@DavidCarlisle Huh?

@DavidCarlisle Ah, right, so I can merge back ...

@DavidCarlisle Thoughts on the filehook business? Change sansmathaccent?

David Carlisle

@JosephWright was that the wrong branch?

Joseph Wright

@DavidCarlisle No, that was right: I kept it on a branch so I can merge back 'clearly'

@DavidCarlisle i meant we should now be sorted, so I can merge ..

David Carlisle

7:45 PM

@JosephWright I need to look at that package and work out what its doing, as I said in mail the usage of bold fonts should be the same with or without bm

@JosephWright Not actually used the travis client before I think but it generated something plausible, so long as i encrypted the right thing, we'll see...

Joseph Wright

@DavidCarlisle I think the idea is to stop beamer burning a math font

David Carlisle

@JosephWright yes but the user could access bold math via \boldmath rather than \bm and ought to see the same fonts, but I'll look at the package:-)

Joseph Wright

@DavidCarlisle Meanwhile, I'm trying to track down some weirdness

David Carlisle

@JosephWright somewhere near São Paulo ?

Joseph Wright

@DavidCarlisle HaH

@DavidCarlisle No, I'm getting different outcomes from Travis-CI and on my local VM whilst trying to tidy up some of the Lua: pick up new l3build features

cis

8:02 PM

@DavidCarlisle "what are the stocks?" ---> I thought this is slang for "how are you?"

David Carlisle

@cis not round here it isn't:-) but I'm fine thanks.

@JosephWright sorry missed one todo:-)

cis

@DavidCarlisle OK, a simplier slang: "Hey, everything o.k. on the Bonanza Ranch?"

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$TeX - LaTeX$ TeX, LaTeX and Friends