TeX, LaTeX and Friends

marmot

00:37

@HaraldHanche-Olsen What is a wooden rodent? ;-)

Harald Hanche-Olsen

08:14

@marmot I was expecting that response, somehow.

Paulo Cereda

08:27

mickep

08:41

@PauloCereda Ohh!!!

Paulo Cereda

@mickep ooh

Big Bird was on the Apple event... spooky

Ulrike Fischer

10:15

@JosephWright from the arabluatex announcement: "- LaTeX side: 'environ' has been replaced in favor of a LaTeX3 equivalent.".

Joseph Wright

@UlrikeFischer Oooh

Ulrike Fischer

@JosephWright he also seem to have cleaned up the lua table: Lua side: all non-local functions have been stored in a table.

Joseph Wright

@UlrikeFischer Great :)

David Carlisle

12:23

@UlrikeFischer can't we have an "everyone write in English and don't redefine latex internals" policy?

Ulrike Fischer

@DavidCarlisle if I'm allowed a few umlauts. How should I greet people without "Grüße"?

David Carlisle

@UlrikeFischer 'ey-up sorry, how yer gettin on?'

@UlrikeFischer I am sure that is a phrase @JosephWright uses all the time.

Harald Hanche-Olsen

@DavidCarlisle And snobbish English speakers need to stop writing naïve, reëvaluate or coördinate. Win-win!

David Carlisle

@HaraldHanche-Olsen Non utuntur Ecclesia Latina omnibus in societate civili

Ulrike Fischer

@DavidCarlisle that's interesting as filename too. Would it work with the new code?

marmot

13:58

@HaraldHanche-Olsen I am glad that I met your expectations. ;-)

Paulo Cereda

14:59

@DavidCarlisle ooh

@JosephWright ooh

JouleV

@marmot Why did you delete your answer in this question? It is very good and helpful!

David Carlisle

@PauloCereda are you an owl or a duck?

Paulo Cereda

@DavidCarlisle quack :)

David Carlisle

@PauloCereda dinner!

Paulo Cereda

@DavidCarlisle oh no

marmot

15:26

@JouleV Because it does not add anything to yours.

@JouleV However, one may write a short package "TikZ symbol composer" which detects all the ambient stuff (font size, font weight, color) and adjusts the symbol accordingly. All the tough parts have already been solved by @LoopSpace in his stellar tikzmark library. This would combine the good features of @StevenB.Segletes's nice answer with the simplicity of TikZ.

JouleV

@marmot I really hope to see a LaTeX package written by you, especially a TikZ package! It will be not only great, but also special because it will be the first LaTeX package ever written not by human ;)

3

Paulo Cereda

@JouleV oi

JouleV

@PauloCereda Hi there!

marmot

@JouleV I am not sure I would qualify as a package author. (And didn't @PauloCereda write arara ?)

Paulo Cereda

@JouleV Joseph is a duck. :)

4

@marmot quack :)

marmot

15:36

@PauloCereda Good point.

Paulo Cereda

@marmot And he is also very tall. :)

@JosephWright, @DavidCarlisle ^^ :)

marmot

And biblatex-sbl, pgf-cmykshadings, and pdfoverlay are maintained by a koala: tex.stackexchange.com/users/87678/david-purton

JouleV

@marmot You definitely have more TikZ knowledge than the necessary amount to write a package!

@PauloCereda How high is our mod? Let me guess: it is about 1.90 meters to 2 meters?

marmot

@JouleV No, because I cannot deal with the repositories. (I started to find out which libraries are needed to compile the examples in the pgfmanual, but I could not proceed simply because I am unable to use the repositories... likewise for some simple 3d stuff.)

Paulo Cereda

@JouleV Something along thoses lines. :) @JosephWright can confirm. :)

JouleV

15:42

@PauloCereda How many TeX.SE users did you meet in TUG 2018? I'm sure you met @JosephWright in #TUG2018 :)

Paulo Cereda

@JouleV yo', Ulrike, Will, Frank, Joseph, Mico, if I didn't forget anybody else

samcarter

@marmot If you think I can help with repositories and stuff, please drop me a message. (In case this project carries on, I'd love to contribute -- never knowing which libraries are necessary for which example is my biggest problem with the tikz manual, well my biggest problem besides my computer freezing when I search something in it :)

@PauloCereda You forgot the Bär :)

Paulo Cereda

@samcarter ooh das Bär

samcarter

@PauloCereda Try "der Bär"

marmot

15:57

@samcarter Do you know what one has to do to contribute to sourceforge.net/projects/pgf. My main problem is that I would need to work on the pgfmanual while others are updating it. I do not know how to do that. (Your experience with me fumbling around in the folders of the Christmas Extravaganza tells you that I must be missing some very basic concepts.)

David Carlisle

@marmot didn't Henri say it had moved (or is moving) to github?

marmot

@DavidCarlisle Yes, but I got this information just from this chat. My emails do not get answered. I am not blaming Henri, he has probably better things to do than explaining me how these repositories work. But I simply have not enough information to start some serious work (and currently also not the time). If there is a simple way I can add these things via, say, git, I could work continuously on these things, but at this point I am just wasting everybody's time, including mine.

David Carlisle

@manooooh "To do that, I do not have any editor that can replace text" isn't the ability to replace text the definition of a program being "an editor"? what editor do you use?

@marmot sure, and github or sourceforge are the same here, basically you need to click on "fork" and then clone the files which will give you a local copy, then edit the manual as you see fit and then when you are done let the system generate a "pull request" (called merge request on sourceforge) which is basically just a generated diff of all your changes which the maintainers can choose to apply or not.

Skillmon

Is there a way to get back the original token after doing something like \let\foo=a, so that I somehow get into the input stream a instead of \foo (without knowing what \foo was let to)?

David Carlisle

16:13

@Skillmon no

Skillmon

@DavidCarlisle how unfortunate, I though so.

David Carlisle

@Skillmon you can tell \foo is an implicit character so could generate that character token, but if for example you had \let\foo\lbrace you can't tell that \lbrace was used not {

Ulrike Fischer

On the bus to Darmstadt- the Bär is here too.

4

marmot

@DavidCarlisle But do I have a possibility to merge my local files with the updated version. Assume I would work 2 months continuously on that, and others make other updates. I am used to seeing the changes by others immediately. (On cvs there were cvs update -dP and cvs commit which I would continuously do.)

@UlrikeFischer I hope you left the marmot with enough food at home.

Ulrike Fischer

@marmot my husband is there and will take care of it.

David Carlisle

16:27

@marmot yes just do git pull (or a gui equivalent of the same) and any changes that anyone else has done are merged in to your copy (or they clash if you have edited the same line and you are prompted to resolve the differences

Paulo Cereda

@DavidCarlisle good old times of cat/sed :)

manooooh

@DavidCarlisle TeXnicCenter, but it seems that it has a Find and Replace

David Carlisle

@marmot whether you see other changes that peopel do immediately depends on them, the only difference between git and svn or cvs is that you have tow levels of checkin. locally you have the entire repository so a commit is only local unlike cvs, but then you can git push to sync your repository changes back upstream, conversely, you need to first git pull upstream changes to your copy then check them out locally.

@manooooh as I say it is impossible to imagine any editor without find/replace.

manooooh

@DavidCarlisle well, I had the idea that on Overleaf you press Ctrl+F and voilà, but not in TeXnicCenter

David Carlisle

@marmot so if everyone always uses git commit git push, and git pull, then everything syncs immediately, but if you want to work for 6 months on a complicated feature branch you can just commit so you have a record of your changes but never push until you are done, so then others don't see that work until you are ready

@marmot either way it's a lot simpler than tikz, so if you can master tikz you can master git:-)

marmot

16:39

@DavidCarlisle Well, sure, but I never claimed I master TikZ. ;-) Thanks anyway! I will see if Henri contacts me again, if not, I am not going to bother him.

samcarter

The following strategy worked when I added something to pgfpages

1. create sourceforge account if you don't already have one

2. fork repository from https://sourceforge.net/p/pgf/git/ci/master/tree/ (there is a button "Fork" in the left had sidebar) and follow instructions that appear

3. To get it on your computer: `git clone ssh://[email protected]/u/marmot/pgf pgf` (replace marmot with your user name)

4. Adding the original repository to get all the stuff other people are doing: `git remote add upstream https://git.code.sf.net/p/pgf.git`

4

marmot

@samcarter Thanks! I plan to try this out during the weekend.

Loop Space

17:52

@marmot Just skim reading through these comments, it appears as though you think you need to check out the whole TikZ/pgf repository to contribute a package. Just in case you do think that, it's certainly not the case for if you're writing something stand-alone-ish. You only need to do that if proposing something like a bug-fix. None of my TikZ packages involved using the TikZ/pgf repository.

@samcarter Do you have a link to your contribution to pgfpages? I have an extension of pgfpages, called pgfmorepages, and so if you've fixed something in pgfpages it might be something that would fit in my extension too.

@marmot Also, re your comment on the main site. texdoc tikzmark tells you my actual email address. Sometimes the old-fashionned ways are the best - especially when there's code involved.

samcarter

@LoopSpace see sourceforge.net/p/pgf/git/merge-requests/17, it was just the 6 on 1 layout, which you seem to already have in your package.

@LoopSpace Which btw looks like an very interesting package! If I would have known about its existence, I would have used it already a couple of times.

marmot

18:11

@LoopSpace OK, so sorry! I wrote an email.

@LoopSpace No, I was agreeing to add the information which library is needed to run the examples of the manual, similarly to what happens in pgfplots. Then I need to access the manual.

Loop Space

@samcarter I'm trying to tighten it up a bit to submit it to CTAN.

@marmot No need to apologise! Just thought it might be a more effective way of communicating.

@marmot Ah, I see. Yes, in that case you'd need to fork the repository. But I wouldn't worry overmuch about keeping up to date on a day-to-day basis.

@marmot Email received. I'm investigating right now.

Paulo Cereda

ooh secret marmot mail

marmot

@PauloCereda I had to choose a more ordinary name, gmail does not offer free email accounts to marmots (which is a shame).

@LoopSpace Thanks a lot! (I am converting old summer school slides, for which I used PStricks, to TikZ. Looking at the source codes, I find it almost unbelievable how much tweaking I was willing to do just to make a vector index, say, a node that I can point an arrow to. I wish I'd have used tikz back then, and tikzmarknode already existed.)

samcarter

18:31

@marmot Thanks a lot for the edit!

marmot

@samcarter You're welcome. (In this case, it is IMHO not too important to make the change, but it might help in future tikz versions to avoid trouble...)

manooooh

18:48

@marmot ^^^^ do you think it looks nice or is it very visually harmful (the last part I need to change it a little)? Hahaha, I have tried to use the best paths for more than the best, but with your code I think it looks good :)

Sigur

Hello friends. Is it possible to print the bibliography with MRCLASS = {} field if present on the bibitem? I'm using biber.

Oh, I think I found it here: tex.stackexchange.com/q/477776/14757

Anyway, thanks.

samcarter

19:12

@marmot It might not be important in this case, but who knows where code from this site gets copy&pasted to, so it is always better to try to eradicate

Loop Space

19:26

@marmot There's a \mathchoice within a \mathchoice which is meaning that the \tikzmarknode is being run sixteen times, instead of the expected four. This means that my hack to figure out which one was run isn't working correctly as it isn't regressing far enough.

Loop Space

19:51

@marmot have a go with the latest version

https://github.com/loopspace/tikzmark/commit/7f480d2704d83bb66f96f2ed0db2f4e40b39c585

Canageek

@JosephWright Question: Is there a good way to reference a figure in another document in LaTeX? I'm guessing the answer is no, but thought I'd check.

Ex. I've got a table in my ESI that I want to refrence in the main body of my paper. Two different documents. Right now I'm just leaving them till the end then doing them manually.

David Carlisle

20:19

@Canageek xr package does that (brilliant package:-)

Canageek

@DavidCarlisle Thexrpackage∗David Carlisle† I see how you know about it. Also why it has a two letter name.

David Carlisle

@Canageek also xr-hyper if you want a hyperref compatible version

marmot

@manooooh Hi I am very busy this afternoon, sorry.

@LoopSpace Thanks! Will try later.

@samcarter Yes, precisely.

David Carlisle

20:47

@UlrikeFischer would you believe it, I answered a miktex question. standard miktex answer "mutter something about updating user and admin modes" I don't know what it means, but the Op seems happy

David Carlisle

21:10

@egreg tick hunting again I see

egreg

@DavidCarlisle Providing detailed answers and workarounds. :-P

David Carlisle

@egreg as I said:-)

manooooh

@marmot ok, have fun if possible :)

Ulrike Fischer

21:45

@DavidCarlisle oh good. Then you can take over ;-) I was getting so fed up by this that I even made a feature request: github.com/MiKTeX/miktex/issues/262

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