TeX, LaTeX and Friends

eaglgenes101

02:04

ei?

marmot

02:50

@StefanKottwitz I guess it is nontrivial to collect the accounts who downvote some others. (Luckily downvoting is not very common here, so you can rule out most by just looking up their total number of downvotes, or check if the downvote you receive is correlated with their total # of downvotes going up, but this can lead to suspecting the wrong user.)

Paulo Cereda

08:04

@barbarabeeton, @AlanMunn ^^ :)

Harald Hanche-Olsen

08:23

@UlrikeFischer To some authors, the body text is merely the glue binding the footnotes together.

David Carlisle

09:38

@UlrikeFischer updating the version number in the oberdiek packages is an interesting exercise isn't it:-)

Joseph Wright

@DavidCarlisle :)

@DavidCarlisle, @UlrikeFischer, @egreg I wonder when we get the first \expanded bug ;)

David Carlisle

@JosephWright if @UlrikeFischer used a proper editor I could give her:

(defun ho-tex ()
  (interactive)
  (goto-char (point-min))
  (re-search-forward "File:\\s-+\\(.*\\)\\.dtx\\s-*\n%\\s-*Version: \\(20../../..\\) v\\([0-9]+\\)\\.\\([0-9]+\\)" 600)
  (let ((today "2018/11/01")
	(pkg  (match-string 1))
	(d  (match-string 2))
	(v1 (match-string 3))
	(v2 (match-string 4))
	)
    (narrow-to-region (point-min)
		      (progn (search-forward "begin{History}") (point)))
    (goto-char (point-min))
    (query-replace d today)
    (goto-char (point-min))
    (query-replace (concat today" v" v1 "." v2)

Joseph Wright

@DavidCarlisle I think the primitive stuff is now good-to-go

@DavidCarlisle Turn it into Lua ;)

Ulrike Fischer

@DavidCarlisle yes. But more interesting is this pull request business and keeping forks in sync. Not quite sure why it told me it wants to sent all commits again but with only one changed file.

Joseph Wright

@DavidCarlisle Did you see that Karl wants to give me (us?) SVN access to TeX Live? I think I may have ended up as maintainer of XeTeX ... oops

David Carlisle

09:41

@JosephWright did you see that I denied all knowledge of anything?

Ulrike Fischer

@JosephWright do you know if miktex will pick this up from texlive?

Joseph Wright

@DavidCarlisle Yup

David Carlisle

@UlrikeFischer always do git pull --rebase otherwise you end up having to commit merge commits all the time is my only advice there

Joseph Wright

@UlrikeFischer Usually does but I'll pint Christian

@DavidCarlisle Yup

David Carlisle

@UlrikeFischer talking of write access, you could avoid managing a fork if you had write access to ho-tex....

Ulrike Fischer

09:46

Nov 8 at 21:45, by Ulrike Fischer

@DavidCarlisle you only want to blame me ;-). You can it give to me if you want but probably I will still leave it to you - not sure if I can run all the scripts.

David Carlisle

@UlrikeFischer I had a look at that but currently I'd need to extend l3build a bit (or get @JosephWright to do so) but I ran out of time, really you need to take the manifest.txt file as a "template" and make the tds tree by copying to where it says they should be. Currently by the time l3build gets to make the tds layout it has no information about what to go in latex and what to go in generic

Joseph Wright

This is pdfTeX, Version 3.14159265-2.6-1.40.19 (MiKTeX 2.9.6880 64-bit)
entering extended mode
(test.tex
LaTeX2e <2018-04-01> patch level 5
> \expanded=\expanded.
l.1 \show\expanded

?

@DavidCarlisle, @UlrikeFischer ^^^

David Carlisle

@UlrikeFischer the git log records the pull request information. so I can blame you anyway.

Joseph Wright

@DavidCarlisle Yeah, we need an interface ..

Ulrike Fischer

@DavidCarlisle actually I wanted to point to the "you can give it to me" part ;-). But the main problem is actually not the scripts (if needed you can build) but how to avoid to mess up the upstream. I'm using git also to exchange files between my laptop and the pc, and so quite often have "dirty commits". I'm not quite sure about the best workflow here yet.

David Carlisle

09:58

@UlrikeFischer you should have mail...

@JosephWright currently I just read the plain text manifest file as source, but having a lua table to generate both the tds layout and the manifest may make more sense?

Ulrike Fischer

10:17

@DavidCarlisle it also told me "If @davidcarlisle is sending you too many emails, you can report them for abuse" ;-). And as seem to acquire more and more repositories I will really have to think about a sensible workflow to handle messy, temporary histories ...

Paulo Cereda

10:36

This season of doctor Who is boring

Phelype Oleinik

@PauloCereda Ooh Doctor Who :D It's been long since I last watched it

@PauloCereda The last one I saw was the Twelfth Doctor and Clara was his companion. I thought that one was was a little boring...

Paulo Cereda

@PhelypeOleinik Clara is IMHO the most boring companion ever. :)

Phelype Oleinik

@PauloCereda I liked the ones with the Tenth Doctor better

Paulo Cereda

@PhelypeOleinik ooh more doctor Who :)

Phelype Oleinik

@PauloCereda Ooh, YES!

Paulo Cereda

10:46

@PhelypeOleinik DAVID TENNANT FTW

Phelype Oleinik

@PauloCereda I Struggle to remember actor's names. In my head I call him Barty Crouch Jr. :P

@PauloCereda I know what I'll be watching tonight now :-)

Paulo Cereda

11:01

@PhelypeOleinik LOL

@PhelypeOleinik hm?

Phelype Oleinik

@PauloCereda You remembered me of watching Doctor Who :)

Paulo Cereda

@PhelypeOleinik ooh

Joseph Wright

11:58

@DavidCarlisle Could do: we need to thras out some ideas I guess

Phelype Oleinik

@JosephWright Hello Joseph :-) Do you know why there isn't a pdf of the documentation of l3doc.cls in TeXLive?

@JosephWright I noticed this because texdoc l3doc brings up the same as texdoc expl3...

Joseph Wright

@PhelypeOleinik We've never put it in ...

Phelype Oleinik

@JosephWright Oh...

@JosephWright It'd be useful... For me at least :-)

Hiwi Makro

12:50

Hello :)
I don't find this to be worthy to be posted as a question, so I will be asking here, if you dont mind.
If you think otherwise, I will happily ask the question in the forum.

Is there a way to sort the .bib-file alphabetically? I mean not in the pdf, but the file itself? I am handling a rather large file, so "by hand" is not really an option.

Thank you a lot :)

@PhelypeOleinik Also I loved Clara. But of course David Tennant > all other Doctors.

David Carlisle

13:03

@HiwiMakro probably the bib tools listed (for example) here tex.stackexchange.com/questions/98936/… might help, or you could just use an editor such as emacs to re-arrange the entries

Ulrike Fischer

@HiwiMakro You can probably do it with biber in tool mode, but why don't you use a tool like jabref?

samcarter

13:38

Did you all see the image for TUG'19? It looks so nice!

6

Paulo Cereda

@samcarter ooh

samcarter

@PauloCereda ohh

Paulo Cereda

@samcarter ooh a different counter

It could be "Pollo" instead of "Palo" so we could have a huge Mexican chicken in the logo!

@samcarter can we have a chicken in the tikzling thingy?

samcarter

@PauloCereda I'm afraid that a tikzling chicken will end up as lunch for @DavidCarlisle

Paulo Cereda

@samcarter oh no

samcarter

13:47

@PauloCereda That would be very bad!

Paulo Cereda

@samcarter your package has a review on CTAN

samcarter

@PauloCereda <3 I'll have to protest, there is an owl in the package, so you cannot complain about birds in general :)

Paulo Cereda

@samcarter ooh

@samcarter updated comment. :)

barbara beeton

14:07

@samcarter -- it's missing something -- the thieving scrub jays that steal your lunch when you're eating outside at a picnic table.

samcarter

@PauloCereda :) Isn't "ducks are cute" one of the fundamental laws of nature that should be clear to everybody and does not need to be stated?

Paulo Cereda

@samcarter awww <3

@barbarabeeton ooh picnics

samcarter

@barbarabeeton I can't see any lunch, so the thieving scrub jays probably left already with the lunch

samcarter

14:26

@PauloCereda Argh! Ctan won't let me post a comment in reply to your comment without rating my own package, which makes no sense to do.

@PauloCereda Can you include my reply in your comment?

Dear Dr. Duck,
Thank your for your thorough review of the package! It is fundamental law of nature that ducks are cute, so I think it is not necessary to explicitly mention this. If the federation of cute ducks disagree, they are advised to take a look into the mirror, this will certainly convince them that they are indeed cute :)
The package author

Paulo Cereda

@samcarter: done. :)

samcarter

@PauloCereda thanks :)

marmot

15:49

Hi ducks and humans, do you also have trouble seeing screen shots of very recent posts?

samcarter

@marmot imgur is very unstable for weeks...

marmot

@samcarter Hmmh, for me it worked fine in the recent past, just not now.

samcarter

@marmot It times out very fast and I often have to reload pages

@marmot Can you link to specific question which does not show images?

marmot

@samcarter Yes, but even this does not work for me now. Regardless of how often I reload, it does not change. I can neither see the screenshot in @egreg's answer here, nor this post.

samcarter

@marmot Oh, this is a serious problem if you cannot see the dark duck universe!

marmot

16:02

@samcarter Yes, it is. @egreg has many answers, so I can live with missing one of them. ;-) It would be sad, though, if I missed one of his questions.

samcarter

@marmot I just checked egreg's latest answer and it works for me. Sorry that I cannot give any more useful suggestions

egreg

@marmot No problem for me.

samcarter

@marmot Maybe he asks tons of questions but there is a bug in tex.se that does not show them?

egreg

@marmot You missed my last question? Oh, dear!

2

marmot

@egreg Well, I know the answer: 42. ;-)

egreg

16:07

@marmot I always ask students what's the next number in the sequence 5, 10, 20, 30, 36. The answer is not 42.

samcarter

@egreg 43

egreg

@samcarter Of course!

samcarter

@egreg :)

marmot

@egreg Poor students.

egreg

@marmot It's for telling them that, generally, such questions are silly. But this is a case where the answer is unique. The other one is, of course, what number comes after 640 231 100 91

@marmot Look at youtube.com/watch?v=ySp3eOQLqg8, 5:25 mark. :-)

marmot

16:28

@egreg Well, this was written before string theory was discovered and can thus not be trusted. ;-)

egreg

@marmot Would you trust string theory? :-)

cis

@PauloCereda I used the rule converter today, seems to have success:

!config
arguments:
- flag: <arara> @{parameters.command}
  identifier: command
commands:
- command: <arara> @{command}
identifier: console
name: Console

---> This was arara's console.yaml

% arara: console: { command: 'C:\Program Files (x86)\Adobe\Acrobat Reader DC\Reader\AcroRd32.exe' }

opens a program.

marmot

@egreg No, of course not. (Some famous physicist once said that string cosmology is the marriage between a theory that has no data with a theory that has no predictions. He is a string theorist based at the location at which TUG 2019 will take place. ;-)

Alan Munn

20:09

Words to chill the heart: You have been added to a team in Microsoft Teams.

Canageek

21:02

Weird. If I make a citation that doesn't exist, bibtex and pdflatex just throw a questionmark in. Say \cite{minee}. But if I cite "mine" when in the bib file it is "Mine" it freaks out and won't compile

"Case mismatch error between cite keys mine and Mine"

"------------
Running 'bibtex "3DCp"'
------------
This is BibTeX, Version 0.99d (TeX Live 2018/W32TeX)
The top-level auxiliary file: 3DCp.aux
Case mismatch error between cite keys mine and Mine
---line 37 of file 3DCp.aux
: \citation{mine
: }
I'm skipping whatever remains of this command
The style file: rsc.bst
Database file #1: 3DCp.bib
(There was 1 error message)
Latexmk: Summary of warnings from last run of (pdf)latex:
Latex failed to resolve 1 citation(s)
Latexmk: Errors, so I did not complete making targets

Any reason for that?

Alan Munn

7

Q: Unresolvable case mismatch in Bibtex

This is where the problem lies: What I would think should not work: \cite{jaeger2006a} What should work: \cite{Jaeger2006a} See Andrew Swann's answer for the detailed explanation. In short use either one of the citations throughout your entire document. Do not mix. Original In my bibliog...

Canageek

@AlanMunn Right, but WHY does it do that, when making up a non-existent one is just fine? Why not just be case-consistent the whole way along, rather then doing it half case-insensitive, then freaking out at the last minute?

Alan Munn

@Canageek Because that's the way it was written? (There's not much else to say other than that, short of asking the original author of bibtex.)

Canageek

@AlanMunn Kind of like why LaTeX floods the log file with pointless font stuff? It made sense to someone at the time?

David Carlisle

22:20

@Canageek the log is for debugging information so things written to the log are for whoever gets to debug the code, not necessarily the document author.

Canageek

@DavidCarlisle Right, but this that work fine don't need debugging and it makes it harder to find what hasn't worked.

@DavidCarlisle I mean, OK, I could see the use of a -verbose option that print everything, but one that just prints things I need to/can fix would be really useful.

David Carlisle

@Canageek some bits of latex code are a bit verbose (I've been known to complain to team colleagues:-) but I wouldn't have thought the font system is particularly verbose?

Canageek

@DavidCarlisle I've got a few hundred lines like

File: ts1enc.dfu 2018/04/05 v1.2c UTF-8 support for inputenc
defining Unicode char U+00A2 (decimal 162)
defining Unicode char U+00A3 (decimal 163)

David Carlisle

@Canageek exactly. that's inputenc not the font system. I'd be tempted to stop those by default.

Canageek

Ahhh, sorry. Then I've got a few hundred more of LaTeX Info: Redefining \oldstylenums on input line 334.
Package textcomp Info: Setting cmr sub-encoding to TS1/0 on input line 349.
Package textcomp Info: Setting cmss sub-encoding to TS1/0 on input line 350.

Then a bunch of aTeX Font Info: Redeclaring symbol font `operators' on input line 171.

And the WORST offender:

.................................................
. LaTeX info: "xparse/define-command"
.
. Defining command \SIrangeInBookmark with sig. 'ommm' on line 7418.
.................................................

David Carlisle

22:26

@Canageek in the directory i use for testing MWE for this site:

$ grep 'defining Unicode' *.log | wc -l
56814

Canageek

You took FIVE lines to say something that should take TWO, and put it in **** which makes it look important!

cfr

@marmot True. But there is an implicit suggestion.

Canageek

(You being whatever mod author that is)

@DavidCarlisle There are 350 lines matching ................................................. in my log file

David Carlisle

@Canageek oi don't blame me for that:-)

Canageek

@DavidCarlisle I thought you wrote every package on CTAN? ;)

@DavidCarlisle Only 70 hits in my log file

cfr

22:28

@DavidCarlisle L3 is horrible. It never takes 1 line where 50 will do and most of them are nothing but asterisks.

David Carlisle

@cfr ~~I blame @JosephWright~~ we take collective responsibility for that code.

@cfr actually the last update toned down the L3 message system a lot and made it more like 2e's

Canageek

140 line of LaTeX Font Info
350 line of .................................................
65 line of (font)
198 "LaTeX Info"
70 of defining Unicode char

David Carlisle

@Canageek the 2e model (re-adoped by l3 is that each class of message has a unique prefix such as (Font) so you can easily use grep or similar to filter out just the lines of interest and ignore the ones that you are not interested in.

marmot

23:01

@cfr Of course, but there was also a possible interpretation. ;-)

Canageek

23:15

@DavidCarlisle Yeah, but then I have to write my own filters, and since I don't know what I'm doing, I might accidentally hide something important.

@DavidCarlisle I've seen systems where each message is flagged with importance level: Note, Error, Warning, etc

David Carlisle

@Canageek yes but they weren't written in a system that was designed to fit in an emtex string pool on a 640k PC :-)

@Canageek actually latex has that concept \PackageError, \PackageWarning, \PackageInfo but they only affect how much goes to the terminal, they all end in the log.

Canageek

@DavidCarlisle Wait, termianl and log aren't identical? Is there a way to turn down what shows up in the terminal? That is what i watch as it compiles

David Carlisle

@Canageek a lot more goes to the log than the terminal, but \Packagewarning goes to both \PackageInfo just goes to the log (that's the only difference between the commands)

@Canageek \let\PackageWarning\PackageInfo for example....

@Canageek most of the messages you mentioned before like defining unicode and "latex info" are log-only

Canageek

@DavidCarlisle Huh, you are right. Most of what I see in the terminal is stuff like "(d:/texlive/2018/texmf-dist/tex/latex/amsmath/amsgen.sty))"

David Carlisle

@Canageek that is from the guts of tex the program so you can do nothing about that unless you use batchmode (and so turn off all non-error terminal output)

Alan Munn

23:25

@Canageek Depending on your editor, you might be able to trim stuff that you see when you view the log. In TeXShop, for example, I can have it display only warnings.

David Carlisle

@Canageek but first thing I do with most documents is add \tracingall which tends to make the log longer rather than shorter...

Alan Munn

@DavidCarlisle Now you're just trolling. :)

David Carlisle

@AlanMunn me?

Alan Munn

Tamandua-2:texjunk alan$ cat yes.log | wc -l
38822

David Carlisle

23:45

@AlanMunn peikot sanovat, ettei koskaan luota kielitieteeseen

Alan Munn

@DavidCarlisle Tröll eru íslensku ekki finnsku.

David Carlisle

@AlanMunn they get about a bit

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$TeX - LaTeX$ TeX, LaTeX and Friends