TeX, LaTeX and Friends

manooooh

6:02 AM

Who wants mate

Paulo Cereda

10:01 AM

@DavidCarlisle ooh

TeXnician

@PauloCereda That was predictable :)

@PauloCereda How are you enjoying your vast amount of free time?

Paulo Cereda

@TeXnician ooh

@TeXnician not that much. :)

TeXnician

@PauloCereda Beware of incoming emails :)

Paulo Cereda

@TeXnician I know! Expect one or two today. :)

TeXnician

@PauloCereda Ooh ;)

Paulo Cereda

10:13 AM

@TeXnician ooh

Harald Hanche-Olsen

10:57 AM

@PauloCereda 5159. A long way to go before you hit ω.

Paulo Cereda

@HaraldHanche-Olsen ooh a challenge

Ulrich Diez

12:43 PM

Hi, is there a TeX-engine with a primitive for neutralizing \uppercase/\lowercase?
This might make life much easier, e.g., when with book.cls and hyperref.sty and
\pagestyle{headings} trying something like \appendix...\chapter{Remarks to chapter \protect\ref*{SoMe_LaBeL}}.
(In the page-headers things get uppercased via the \uppercase-primitive. Thus an attempt
takes place at referencing SOME_LABEL which in turn yields ?? and a message about
undefined references... Something like \chapter{Remarks to \nocasechange{\protect\ref*{SoMe_LaBeL}}} would be nice.) I know the \NoCaseChange-macro fro…

Joseph Wright

@UlrichDiez No: the primitives just work 'the way they do'

@UlrichDiez I take it you've seen the expandable case-changer in expl3, where some macro arguments are automatically skipped?

\documentclass{article}
\usepackage{expl3}
\ExplSyntaxOn
\cs_new_eq:NN \MakeTextUpperCase \tl_upper_case:n
\ExplSyntaxOff
\begin{document}

\section{Foo}
\label{SoMe_LaBeL}
\MakeTextUpperCase{Remarks to some place \ref{SoMe_LaBeL}}

\end{document}

@UlrichDiez I guess we (team) should look to make sure raw \uppercase doesn't pop up anywhere it shouldn't (@DavidCarlisle): could you give an example (I'm surprised any exist in the core code)

Ulrich Diez

I know that \lowercase and \uppercase work the way they do. My hope was that there is an engine with an additional primitive. To be honest: I don't do much with expl3. That's so much code to study... :-)

Besides this I got a bunch of old documents using book-class where \MakeTextUpperCase is not used for uppercasing page-headings... \MakeUppercase is used. That does nest the unexpandable \uppercase and the argument in \protected@edef... Now I got it: \let\MakeUppercase=\MakeTextUpperCase, \let\MakeLowercase=\MakeTextLowercase... Many thanks.

Joseph Wright

@UlrichDiez For expl3, it depends of course if you are happy to use the package or you want to reimplement yourself :)

@UlrichDiez Sounds like a plan: I suspect like many things, if we'd had the tokens in 1994 the more complex code would be used 'out of the box' anyway (@DavidCarlisle)

Ulrich Diez

12:59 PM

It happens from time to time that I spend time on reinventing the wheel, not knowing that expl3 already has the wheel in question. ;-)

Ulrich Diez

1:36 PM

Using \MakeTextUpperCase/\NoCaseChange on referencing-commands that also deliver textual phrases yields these phrases non-uppercased:

\documentclass{article}
\usepackage{hyperref}
\usepackage{expl3}
\ExplSyntaxOn
\cs_new_eq:NN \MakeTextUpperCase \tl_upper_case:n
\cs_new:Npn \NoChangeCase #1 {#1}
\tl_put_right:Nn \l_tl_case_change_exclude_tl { \nameref }
\tl_put_right:Nn \l_tl_case_change_exclude_tl { \NoChangeCase }
\ExplSyntaxOff

\begin{document}

\section{bar}
\label{SoMe_LaBeL}

\section{Foo}

Joseph Wright

@UlrichDiez That's tricky to the point of almost-impossible, at least until/unless those commands are implemented expandably (the whole question of how one deals with the 'textual result' of non-expandable commands is a big worry within the team)

@UlrichDiez To be honest, I suspect that a non-expandable approach at the document level is likely best: one can then set a flag for such commands to 'tell' them which case to select.

@UlrichDiez The expandable approach was driven by the fact it is natural to expect to do the equivalent of \edef\foo{\MagicUppercase{stuff}} and get STUFF stored: lots of other languages work more-or-less that way (but of course would have \nameref-equivalent return some text)

@UlrichDiez The case changing code is experimental for a reason: there are open questions. This is a good one :)

Faheem Mitha

Does anyone know an easy way to crossreference dates across documents?

I suppose the date is just the value of the \date macro?

Joseph Wright

@UlrichDiez You should talk to Chris Rowley about what 'text' is :) Here, the issue is that the hyperlink part isn't text, or at least that's how it feels to me

Faheem Mitha

1:52 PM

Maybe the xr package.

Ulrike Fischer

@JosephWright and here again we are at the point where uppercasing should be better done through font changes ;-)

Joseph Wright

@UlrikeFischer Of course :)

@UlrikeFischer Still wouldn't be expandable ... I think at least for programmatic strings, that is important

@UlrikeFischer I wonder how easy the context-dependent stuff would be to do that way (terminal sigma, for example)

@UlrikeFischer, @UlrichDiez This is as I say a tricky area, and one that probably needs more thought. At TUG2018 the team were thinking about which data structures need expl3 interfaces, and that should lead to some work on cross-references ...

Ulrike Fischer

@JosephWright Hm. I don't know if pdflatex can build ligatures with "word boundary". With lualatex it should be not a problem.

@JosephWright Yes, but uppercasing programmic strings is imho quite different to uppercasing text output.

Joseph Wright

@UlrikeFischer Sure: I was mainly trying to get at the fact that it's rather complicated

@UlrikeFischer Yes: it's much easier :)

Ulrich Diez

2:44 PM

... even without hyperlinks this expansion-thingie turns out to be confusing... ;-)

\documentclass{article}
\usepackage{nameref}
\usepackage{refcount}
\usepackage{expl3}
\ExplSyntaxOn
\cs_new_eq:NN \MakeTextUpperCase \tl_upper_case:n
\tl_put_right:Nn \l_tl_case_change_exclude_tl { \nameref }
\ExplSyntaxOff

\AtBeginDocument{%<-this is so nice...
\newcommand\mynameref{}%
\let\mynameref=\nameref
}%

\parindent=0pt

\begin{document}

\section{title in lowercase}
\label{lowercaselabel}

01 -- \MakeTextUpperCase{Remarks to \mynameref{lowercaselabel}}

Ulrich Diez

3:10 PM

Perhaps instead of preventing the carrying-out of referencing-commands and preventing the change to uppercase/lowercase of referencing-commands' arguments within \tl_upper_case:n / \tl_lower_case:n, referencing-commands and the like can be redefined within \tl_upper_case:n / \tl_lower_case:n to do all expansion-work possible (gathering textual phrases or questionmarks) before reaching a level where things are done in protected fashion. Could, e.g., look like this:

\documentclass{article}
\usepackage{hyperref}

Skillmon

@PhelypeOleinik now I am (for a while)

David Carlisle

3:44 PM

@UlrichDiez you don't have to use \let the package has an option to overload teh standard \Make... commands.

Joseph Wright

4:32 PM

@UlrichDiez That sort of approach has occurred to me: it's a question of agreeing on what commands 'know' about what

@UlrichDiez At the moment, the stuff in expl3 is experimental and not really tied to what is a pretty special case (I'd I guess favour having 'pure text' passed ...)

Skillmon

4:44 PM

@manooooh I do have a guampa and really like my yerba now and then! :)

@DavidCarlisle how dare you recommend the obsolete example-image ? :)

manooooh

5:04 PM

@Skillmon ohhh nice! :) I never taste mate with a guampa! I think those look a lot like

Ulrich Diez

6:30 PM

@DavidCarlisle Thank you for pointing this out. Stupid me - I should have read the manual more carefully... :-(

David Carlisle

@UlrichDiez Oh never read the manuals, that's cheating, I only knew because I wrote it, not because I'd read a manual:-)

Ulrich Diez

6:58 PM

@DavidCarlisle I know. :-) By the way: The situation is even worse with me: Often I do not only read the manual but the commented sources/sections about implementation as well. But today I run out of coffee, thus I'm sort too restless to fall into the state of coding-trance necessary for comprehending all these things... :-)

Ulrich Diez

7:23 PM

@FaheemMitha

It is not clear to me what you mean by "crossreference dates across documents".

Within LaTeX you can use \label and \ref/\pageref/\nameref/\autoref/\hyperref etc for
cross-referencing within a document.

Do you wish to access a label from another document?

If so, the packages XR and XR-hyper can indeed be the right tools of choice...

-----------------------------

The macro \date takes an argument and defines the macro \@date to expand to that argument.

The macro \maketitle in turn, which with standard documentclasses like article, report and book,

Ulrike Fischer

7:40 PM

Here‘s a Football-palindrome. My husband claims that his team allowed their opponents (admittedly only a 5th division side they met in the first round of the FA Cup) to score in the 90th minute to make sure of that.

Faheem Mitha

@UlrichDiez I just want to reference the date of another document. So, if letter1 has date, set to say August 1st 2018, then I want to reference that date in letter2 without having to manually write the date. And of course that should automatically change if I change the date in letter2, though I suppose that might force a recompile of letter1 or something.

I think the xr package handles similar things, but I've not tried anything exactly like that.

Joseph Wright

@UlrikeFischer :)

@FaheemMitha But that needs the date in each doc to be stored programmatically: most of the time it's just typed in or dynamic (\today)

Skillmon

7:59 PM

@manooooh I got one as a gift from an exchange pupil of my sister.

Faheem Mitha

@JosephWright Can you expand on what you mean by "stored programmatically"?

Joseph Wright

@FaheemMitha You need some structure that can be picked up on. The xr package uses data in the .aux file, from \label and such like. But dates aren't stored like that: they don't get written anywhere. So you'd need some 'predictable' data store.

Faheem Mitha

@JosephWright I see. Bottom line - the date would need to be saved to aux?

So not so trivial, then.

Actually, once there was a discussion about copying bits of text across documents. That could work here, I guess.

David Carlisle

@FaheemMitha easiest thing is to have a file doc1-date.tex that just has the text of the date and \input it into both documents

Faheem Mitha

@DavidCarlisle Would it need to have a tex suffix?

David Carlisle

8:09 PM

@FaheemMitha not if you don't want

Faheem Mitha

@DavidCarlisle Ok.

manooooh

8:32 PM

@Skillmon that pupil was from South America?

Skillmon

@manooooh of course :) She is from Paraguay.

manooooh

@Skillmon excellent! In Paraguay the tereré predominates, so the guampa must look more like that than mate 🤔

@Skillmon do you drink it often?

Skillmon

@manooooh not lately. I used to but this year I haven't drunk it once. And currently we have summer, I don't see myself drinking a litre of semi-hot "tea"...

@manooooh perhaps I should drink it cold...

manooooh

@Skillmon ya, the customs prevent it. Here in Argentina (where were you from?) we drink mate all year round, we are the ones who consume more yerba in the whole world

@Skillmon if you have the need do it :), in that case you would be drinking tereré

Skillmon

@manooooh I'm from Germany. There is no cultural pressure on me if I do things in a non-traditional way :)

manooooh

8:42 PM

@Skillmon haha

@Skillmon did you put sugar to the guampa or tereré?

Skillmon

@manooooh no, not ever, I'm German, not Barbaric :)

manooooh

@Skillmon o.O

Skillmon

@manooooh I don't favour sugar in my yerba, neither do I like it in coffee. Just personal preferences.

manooooh

@Skillmon maybe sweetener?

@Skillmon it's ok, I suppose you want to take care

Skillmon

@manooooh getting worse. Sweetener adds a strange taste I really don't like. Sugar would be better. There is a lemonade made with Mate I drink quite often. That one has sugar in it.

manooooh

8:48 PM

@Skillmon I don't know it. That sounds good, hot or cold?

Skillmon

@manooooh cold. I really like it. But 50 % of people think it tastes like a cold ashtray.

@manooooh The other half likes it. There are only extremes on that drink.

s14-eu5.startpage.com/cgi-bin/…

manooooh

@Skillmon my God what a disaster xD. What is the age range for those drinks in Germany?

L.K.

I have question, Is there a way to put References section on bottom right corner, in this answer? I will be grateful if that can be resolved

1

A: Tikzposter image alignment

My rather naïve attempt: \documentclass[25pt,a0paper,portrait]{tikzposter} \usepackage[utf8]{inputenc} \title{Ti\emph{k}Z Poster Example} \author{Duck} \date{\today} \institute{Duck Institute} \newenvironment{mytikzfigure}[1][]{ \def \rememberparameter{#1} \vspace{10pt} \refstepcounter{fi...

manooooh

@Skillmon wow, with that presentation it looks more like a liquor than anything else

Skillmon

@manooooh age range? It's considered as a lemonade containing caffeine. As such children don't get it (only because parents don't allow them). Mostly students drink it.

manooooh

8:57 PM

@Skillmon we will never know if any children don't get it - here celebrates parties with a lot of alcohol from 14-15 years :/, maybe in Germany the parents are more restrictive. When did she give you the guampa?

Ulrich Diez

@FaheemMitha
The xr package does not handle such things, sorry.
The xr package is there for accessing the labels belonging to the \label..\ref-cross-referencing-mechanism of another document. For doing this, it needs those .aux-files that came into being when compiling that other document.

What do you mean by "date of a document"?

Do you mean the date of submission?
Do you mean the date of compilation?
Do you mean one of the file-dates of the .pdf-file?
Do you mean ...

Be that as it may. Seems you wish to obtain a.pdf-output-file, let's call it "letter2.pdf" where the content is autoadju…

Skillmon

@manooooh 2 or 3 years ago... And German parents are not more restrictive than that. Perhaps we wished to, but teenagers find their way. My (really young) children don't get anything containing caffeine.

Faheem Mitha

@UlrichDiez I mean the date set using \date. Sorry that I was unclear.

manooooh

@Skillmon that's fine. I didn't know you were father, congrats

Skillmon

@manooooh I've got three lovely daughters.

2

manooooh

9:03 PM

@Skillmon if the kids are well-educated they will not do the things that their parents forbade them. Another thing is that they are badly learned

Skillmon

@manooooh I consider myself as well-educated but I assure you, I drank beer when I was 14 (not regularly, though).

manooooh

@Skillmon a bit of rebellion is not bad

manooooh

9:18 PM

@Skillmon @barbarabeeton ^^^^^^ :)))

Skillmon

@manooooh enjoy your yerba!

manooooh

@Skillmon thank you! The person on the right is my mum, I'm going to and from my room to the kitchen to drink and leave the mate haha

Faheem Mitha

9:51 PM

:46296323 This is an answer to an unwritten question. Would you like me to post a question?

Never mind, answer deleted.

Ulrich Diez

@FaheemMitha
This is an example, consisting of the .tex-input-files "OneFile.tex" and  "OtherFile.tex".
Each of them is a document.

Within "OneFile.tex" the \label-command is (ab?)used for having the date available for cross-referencing. The name of the label delivering the date is "DateOfOneFile".
During compilation \label..\ref-data of "OneFile.tex" is stored within the file "OneFile.aux".

"OtherFile.tex" via the xr-hyper-package imports the referencing-labels from "OneFile.aux".
Thus within "OtherFile.tex" the date of "OneFile.tex" is available via referencing-commands like \ref and \r…

@FaheemMitha I don't think that the effort is needed. After all, there's a lot resources out there in the WWW where people can find info about xr/xr-hyper... ;-) By the way: I deleted my answer as I saw the need for correcting and re-posting before the time-span for editing was over... I reposted right a few seconds ago... ;-)

Ulrich Diez

10:21 PM

Ah - now I found this little angle-arrow-button "link my next chat message as reply to this"... ;-)

@FaheemMitha @FaheemMitha I just found out about this nice little angle-arrow-button "link my next message as reply to this". ;-) I just reposted my answer. I deleted as I saw the need of doing some corrections...

Faheem Mitha

10:40 PM

@UlrichDiez Since you've provided an answer, I might as well provide a question. :-)

But it will have to wait till tomorrow...

Ulrich Diez

10:56 PM

@FaheemMitha I've to leave the chat now. (Duty calls.;-) ) It was a pleasure to have conversation with you.

Faheem Mitha

@UlrichDiez Ok. Talk to you later.

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