TeX, LaTeX and Friends

6:10 AM

@GustavoMezzetti Good morning! I left before you, I didn't realize it was so late, and I have to go to work today, time flies so fast when you 're having fun!

Moriambar

6:51 AM

@GustavoMezzetti yes indeed

@CarLaTeX Are you going to the Manet exhibition?

CarLaTeX

@Moriambar Maybe, it's at the Palazzo Reale, isn't it?

Moriambar

@CarLaTeX yup. I'm taking my mother tomorrow

CarLaTeX

@Moriambar At what time? If you're there after 4 p.m. we con manage to meet :):):) and have a drink together, I think I'm as old as your mother...

Moriambar

@CarLaTeX my mother is over 60. Anyway I'm going in the morning

sorry -.-' I have a busy afternoon. Better luck next time :/

CarLaTeX

@Moriambar I'm 50, not such a difference, I have an appointment at midday. Are you there before 11?

Moriambar

7:01 AM

@CarLaTeX yup we should be there around 10:30ish, since we have booked the entrance for 10:50

CarLaTeX

@Moriambar We can just meet and say hallo, then! For the drink, next time!

Moriambar

@CarLaTeX perfect

it'll be nice!

CarLaTeX

@Moriambar I'll take Prof. van Duck with me (I hope your mother won't think I'm crazy)

TeXnician

7:22 AM

Hey there, just a short question (maybe one can answer): What would be the correct l3 version to do \ifthenelse{1=\pageref*{LastPage}}{}{\clearpage}?

Moriambar

@CarLaTeX she will, believe me :)

CarLaTeX

@Moriambar We have to make her become a duck fan :):):)

Moriambar

@CarLaTeX eh... it's a hard task. now I have an emergency @work

CarLaTeX

@Moriambar OK, see you!

Ignasi

7:54 AM

I've a problem with hobby library. I'm using an updated miktex system and since long time ago, any test with hobby paths finishes with error. As an example, I've tried the last example from tex.stackexchange.com/q/368219/1952:

(ups sorry not used to chats) the code is: \documentclass[tikz,12pt]{standalone}
\usetikzlibrary{hobby}
\begin{document}
\begin{tikzpicture}
\path [draw=red] (0,0) coordinate (f) to[curve through={+(.125,-.5) +(-.5,-1) +(0,-1.5) +(.5,-.75) }, save Hobby path={ff1}] (f);
\path [draw=blue,xshift=1mm] (f) [restore and use Hobby path={ff1}{}];
\path [draw=gray,xshift=-1.5mm] (f) [restore and use Hobby path={ff1}{}];
\end{tikzpicture}
\end{document}

and compilation finishes with: \documentclass[tikz,12pt]{standalone}
\usetikzlibrary{hobby}
\begin{document}
\begin{tikzpicture}
\path [draw=red] (0,0) coordinate (f) to[curve through={+(.125,-.5) +(-.5,-1) +(0,-1.5) +(.5,-.75) }, save Hobby path={ff1}] (f);
\path [draw=blue,xshift=1mm] (f) [restore and use Hobby path={ff1}{}];
\path [draw=gray,xshift=-1.5mm] (f) [restore and use Hobby path={ff1}{}];
\end{tikzpicture}
\end{document}

and compilation finishes with Runaway definition?
#1#2->\exp_args:NNf
! Forbidden control sequence found while scanning definition of \array_get:Nn.
<inserted text>
}
l.87 \exp_args:NNf \prop_get:Nn
#1 { \int_eval:n {#2} }

David Carlisle

Ignasi

It seems that nobody else here has problems with hooby, so what's wrong in my system?

David Carlisle

@Ignasi best to ask code questions on the main Q&A part of the site but I get ^^^ what did you expect to get?

@Ignasi if you say nothing about it. we don't know:-) add \listfiles to that example and then compare with...

 *File List*
standalone.cls    2015/07/15 v1.2 Class to compile TeX sub-files standalone
ifluatex.sty    2016/05/16 v1.4 Provides the ifluatex switch (HO)
   ifpdf.sty    2017/03/15 v3.2 Provides the ifpdf switch
 ifxetex.sty    2010/09/12 v0.6 Provides ifxetex conditional
 xkeyval.sty    2014/12/03 v2.7a package option processing (HA)
 xkeyval.tex    2014/12/03 v2.7a key=value parser (HA)
standalone.cfg    2015/07/15 v1.2 Default configuration file for 'standalone' c
lass
 article.cls    2014/09/29 v1.4h Standard LaTeX document class

@Ignasi presumably some of your packages are older than listed by the log I just posted ^^^ ?

Ignasi

@DavidCarlisle *File List*
standalone.cls 2015/07/15 v1.2 Class to compile TeX sub-files standalone
ifluatex.sty 2016/05/16 v1.4 Provides the ifluatex switch (HO)
ifpdf.sty 2017/03/15 v3.2 Provides the ifpdf switch
ifxetex.sty 2010/09/12 v0.6 Provides ifxetex conditional
xkeyval.sty 2014/12/03 v2.7a package option processing (HA)
xkeyval.tex 2014/12/03 v2.7a key=value parser (HA)
standalone.cfg 2015/07/15 v1.2 Default configuration file for 'standalone' c
lass
article.cls 2014/09/29 v1.4h Standard LaTeX document class

David Carlisle

@Ignasi what are you using (I used pdftex (texlive 2017 pretest)

Ignasi

8:03 AM

pdflatex from miktex

David Carlisle

@Ignasi all your packages look fairly new (you could ask @UlrikeFischer to test with miktex) what happens on your system, you never said

Torbjørn T.

@DavidCarlisle He posted an error message earlier.

David Carlisle

@TorbjørnT. @Ignasi ah sorry so you did (I skimmed over that thought it was end of the code:-)

Ignasi

@DavidCarlisle No problem, I'll post the question to miktex list. Thanks.

Ulrike Fischer

@Ignasi: The example compiles fine for me. But while testing I got the error ! Forbidden control sequence found while scanning definition of \array_get:Nn. from an old pml3array.sty I had in my test folder.

David Carlisle

8:07 AM

@UlrikeFischer the one file that doesn't report a version number in the file list :(

@Ignasi in that case check earlier in the logs for the full paths to pml3array.sty and other hobby code it should be in your main texmf tree so the miktex equivalent of /usr/local/texlive/2017/texmf-dist/tex/latex/hobby/pml3array.sty

Ulrike Fischer

@DavidCarlisle ;-). But the one file just loaded before the error ...

CarLaTeX

@GustavoMezzetti I managed to get the back issue, yay!

Ignasi

8:29 AM

@DavidCarlisle, @UlrikeFischer: Solved! Also a wrong pml3arry.sty file in the wrong place.

egreg

9:10 AM

@TeXnician You should use \getpagerefnumber from refcount: \int_compare:nF{\getpagerefnumber{LastPage}=1}{\clearpage}

TeXnician

@egreg Thanks, works fine.

Ahlqvist

10:53 AM

I am looking for a way to reset \AtBeginShipout (from atbeginshi), do you if such thing is possible?

My use case: I want an environment that prints text on the right side and illustration on the left side of the document. With AtBeginShipout and \ifodd\value{page} I can add the illustrations easily, but I want it to resume to normal after the environment.

Another \AtBeginShipout just adds more text/illustrations, it does not reset the current

David Carlisle

11:21 AM

untested but the manual suggests `\newcommand{\MyShipoutHook}{whatever}%
\AtBeginShipout{\MyShipoutHook}
\gdef\MyShipoutHook{}%`
}

Ahlqvist

Clever, that worked. Thank you

Heihej

12:04 PM

Hi. Could anyone help with spacing of listings in latex? There is space below each listing even after I set belowskip=0pt and belowcaptionskip=0. I'm using pdflatex to compile the code.

David Carlisle

@Heihej possibly you are floating them so you get the latex float spacing between a float and text , \textfloatsep but better to make an example and ask a question on the site

Christian Hupfer

@TeXnician Neither \pageref* nor \pageref are expandable, that's why @egreg suggested \getpagerefnumber

David Carlisle

@ChristianHupfer see all the hidden goodness in ifthenelse that \pageref magically becomes expandable in that context

Christian Hupfer

@DavidCarlisle Really? Never tried that with \ifthenelse

David Carlisle

12:43 PM

@ChristianHupfer I was going to say that it's even documented, but it's not:-)

        \def\@setref##1##2##3{%
         \ifx##1\relax\z@\else\expandafter##2##1\fi}%

Joseph Wright

1:16 PM

It's like a half-solved cryptogram where the solution is a piece of FORTH code written by someone who doesn't know FORTH.

3

Alan Munn

@JosephWright But it has lots of spaces. :D

Joseph Wright

@AlanMunn :)

@AlanMunn I suspect it's about xii.tex :)

@DavidCarlisle ^^^

Christian Hupfer

1:31 PM

@DavidCarlisle Well, that's the definition from latex.ltx, but I've should look for \ifthenelse code then....

David Carlisle

1:46 PM

@ChristianHupfer no that's the definition from ifthen (it returns 0 if not defined) the latex.ltx one makes a warning that the ref is not defined, which is why it is not expandable

@JosephWright you've got mail:-)

Joseph Wright

@DavidCarlisle :)

Christian Hupfer

@DavidCarlisle Ah, now I do understand you. I did not know that \ifthenelse does a redefinition in ifthen. I referred to the latex.ltx version of \pageref which isn't expandable (and you confirmed it) Thank you

nbro

2:01 PM

Hey folks!

should I use math notation e.g. for situations like: "Suppose we have N items", where the math notation would be applied to the N, of course?

Christian Hupfer

@nbro "Suppose we have $N$ items?" -- I think so, since N is a variable

nbro

yeah

what about if you say "suppose we have a 3D vector", should we use the math notation to contain 3D?

maybe it's a little bit subjective, but I would like to hear your perspectives first :D

Christian Hupfer

@nbro No, I don't think so. 3D is no variable, it's an abbreviation/acronym. If you write "Suppose we have a vector $v \in \mathbb{R}^{3}$" this is different. (Or any other underlying modulus for the vector space ;-)

nbro

Ok

thanks!

TeXnician

@ChristianHupfer Thanks for that information. I just wondered why it didn't expand...

Ulrike Fischer

2:36 PM

@DavidCarlisle todays riddle. Which class and command is doing the equivalent of this here ;-)

\documentclass{article}

\begin{document}

{\let\lowercase\relax
 \fontfamily{ptm}\selectfont blbl
}

\end{document}

David Carlisle

3:08 PM

@UlrikeFischer I'd need to check it wasn't one of mine before being too rude about that code

Ulrike Fischer

@DavidCarlisle ;-) No it isn't you.

It sounds as if your system is not up-to-date. If you have texlive 2016 you will have to update komacv manually - it was broken when texlive was frozen. But beside this there is a bad bug in the \usefonttokomafont definition (I already notified the author). You will have to issue \ttfamily and other font commands in the preamble to force the loading of the fd-files. — Ulrike Fischer 29 mins ago

David Carlisle

@UlrikeFischer ooh koma:-)

2

@UlrikeFischer just komacv or all the koma classes?

oh komacv isn't part of the main koma suite, I see..

Ulrike Fischer

@DavidCarlisle No it is genuine koma bug. It only appeared in the komacv example and it took my some time to remove all the unnecessary bits. At the end KOMA is doing this:

\documentclass{scrartcl}

\newkomafont{quotefont}{\fontfamily{ptm}\selectfont}

\makeatletter
\renewcommand*{\scr@komafontrelaxlist}{%
  \do\normalcolor
  \do\uppercase \do\lowercase  %<--- bumm
  \do\MakeUppercase \do\MakeLowercase
}

\begin{document}

\usefontofkomafont {quotefont}   blub

\end{document}

@DavidCarlisle I assume you can guess what the \do is doing in a "relaxlist".

David Carlisle

@UlrikeFischer oops

@UlrikeFischer yes:-)

@UlrikeFischer oi you stole my tick

Ulrike Fischer

3:30 PM

5

@DavidCarlisle ^^^^

David Carlisle

@UlrikeFischer forger

Ulrike Fischer

@DavidCarlisle Creative use of existing tools ...

David Carlisle

@UlrikeFischer oh that's OK then.

Moriambar

4:21 PM

Any British pal here?

let's try @DavidCarlisle ?

David Carlisle

@Moriambar no, only me:-)

Moriambar

@DavidCarlisle well, I'm coming to London next month, and I have some old british coins. Can I still use them, or something has changed in your currency?

old=decimal anyway

David Carlisle

@Moriambar we got a new pound coin last month so any old (round) pound coins you need to get rid of before October, so make sure people don't dump them on you. we got a new plastic five pound note a while back and the old paper one goes out of circulation very soon (next month?)

Moriambar

@DavidCarlisle oh ok then. I have many 1£ coins, a 2£, then some pence (2,5,10, and 50). One of the 2p coins has "NEW PENCE" instead of TWO PENCE.

All of them ~the 80s. Nothing changed from back then, right?

David Carlisle

@Moriambar oh 80s... that old the 5 and 10p silver ones got smaller sometime but I don't recall when oh I just checked it was 1992 so you will have the old big 5 and 10p, this page has the dimensions of the current coins royalmint.com/discover/uk-coins/coin-design-and-specifications/…

Moriambar

4:35 PM

@DavidCarlisle great thanks

egreg

5:13 PM

@DavidCarlisle Well done!

@UlrikeFischer Is koma really doing \let\lowercase\relax?

Ulrike Fischer

@egreg Yes, very locally but it does \long\def\do##1{\let##1\relax}\scr@komafontrelaxlist

egreg

@UlrikeFischer Locally or not, it's a very bad idea nonetheless.

Ulrike Fischer

@egreg It doesn't want to typset anything there, only retrieve the family etc set by a font command but as one can see even in such a confined space it is dangerous...

egreg

@UlrikeFischer That's what I mean.

David Carlisle

@UlrikeFischer tick seems to have returned to rightful owner (@egreg will be pleased)

samcarter

5:31 PM

@egreg Out of curiosity, why is it wrong? (disclaimer: I have no idea about fonts, just copied from the linked post)

egreg

@samcarter Because it affects also verb, for instance: do you want to allow hyphenation in \verb?

Ulrike Fischer

@egreg He just answered me. The whole code is naturally to a hack around bad user input. He wants to avoid problems if a user put things in the font commands that aren't font command (wild guess: lowercase or \MakeLowercase M-)). His suggested work-around is \let\lowercase\@firstofone. What happens on linux with

\documentclass{article}

\begin{document}
\makeatletter
{\let\lowercase\@firstofone
 \fontfamily{ptm}\selectfont blbl
}

\end{document}

Does this give times?

David Carlisle

@samcarter also if (as here) you load fonts latex will use \lowercase while costructing the name of the fd file to load.....

Ulrike Fischer

@DavidCarlisle Buh. You probably offered a bribe ...

egreg

@DavidCarlisle If users write bad code, they're responsible for it; warn them in the manual.

3

samcarter

5:34 PM

@egreg I see! Did not thought of \verb or other usages of typewriter font.

David Carlisle

@UlrikeFischer I think people named in a question should have the initial rights to any ticks on that question:-)

@UlrikeFischer even on windows with cygwin i get no times and :

LaTeX Font Warning: Font shape `OT1/ptm/m/n' undefined
(Font)              using `OT1/cmr/m/n' instead on input line 8.

Ulrike Fischer

@DavidCarlisle I never tried this strategy. One answer a bit incorrect and then a second tick if someone ask for something better.

@DavidCarlisle I thought so. I will say him that this is not a solution ... I don't want to debug document where the fonts are not what they should be because of this.

samcarter

@egreg @DavidCarlisle Should one leave a comment on texblog.net/latex-archive/plaintex/… that points out these possible complications? What do you think?

David Carlisle

@samcarter er I'm confused, which complications? (not the lowercase issue @Ulrike's writing about?)

egreg

@samcarter Assignments to \fontdimen1 and so on are implicitly global.

@samcarter That post seems to be about documents fully in typewriter type, where usage of \verb seems unlikely.

samcarter

5:44 PM

@DavidCarlisle To be honest, I was already confused much earlier by your ping about \lowercase.

@egreg Thanks for your opinion!

Canageek

Is it 50% or 50 %?

Also: I GOT PROOFS BACK! :D :D :D

FFFFFffffff, Dalton's table doesn't look nearly as good as mine and in confusing

Niclas Jonsson

6:52 PM

I'm writing an LP with begin{align}. Some constraints are so long that they go outside the number which identifies the constraint. Any easy way to fix this?

Canageek

Efffffffffffffffffffff Is that normal @JosephWright ?

Christian Hupfer

7:10 PM

@NiclasJonsson What is an LP standing for other than a long play record?

Joseph Wright

@Canageek 'Normal' in what way?

@Canageek I go with a thin space in the same way as a unit, but this is not universal: look for consistency

David Carlisle

@NiclasJonsson impossible to say. Same answers as always: You can make the font or spacing smaller, or the page bigger or add some linebreaks somewhere or introduce variables for subterms or ....

Canageek

@JosephWright With the greek letters in the wrong font

@JosephWright Ok, good to know.

Canageek

7:30 PM

@JosephWright You recall that talk about Acta Cryst citations? Turns out they turned them all into the super long forms FOR me :D

They even got the HISTORICAL titles correct for that year

Also someone needs to tell IUCr to stop changing the names of they journals. Just stop. Please.

Moriambar

9:00 PM

Is there any material for the TUG@BachoTeX event regarding the talks?

CarLaTeX

9:21 PM

Serial downvoter in circulation ^^^^

@Moriambar They'll be published on the TUGBoat

Moriambar

@CarLaTeX well, I was looking for some videos

@CarLaTeX whoa, not for me

CarLaTeX

@Moriambar I don't know if they do videos...

Moriambar

9:36 PM

@CarLaTeX I've seen some of the past. I really am interested in some of the talks, especially Frank's

CarLaTeX

@Moriambar I think I was the target of the downvoter, since he/she downvoted my first 3 most voted posts

Moriambar

@CarLaTeX wow. But why?

Zarko

Good evening everyone! It seems that down voter is again agile. She/he just now down vote three my answers :(.

CarLaTeX

@Moriambar Yes, I have also watched at some Youtube videos of past editions, maybe they'll do them also this time but I don't know, someone else surely does!

Torbjørn T.

@barbarabeeton Is there video of the TUG-talks this year?

Moriambar

9:42 PM

@CarLaTeX well, let's hope so. I really can't wait

CarLaTeX

@Zarko If the problem is general he/she will be identified and banned soon...

Zarko

I hope so. :)

yo'

@Zarko this happens. If it repeats another day, just flag any of the downvoted posts for moderator attention and mention that you're being serial downvoted; the mods can do something. (@JosephWright I'm looking your way with hope :-) )

CarLaTeX

@Moriambar Every now and then some joker appears...

Zarko

@yo', thank you for advice. this time is second time in two weeks that this happens. I'm curious, if down vote from example 25 votes to 24 means that the awarded silver medal for this "nice answer" is lost?

Joseph Wright

9:48 PM

@Zarko No: badges are not revoked

CarLaTeX

@yo' It happened to me as to Zarko (see some posts before)...

yo'

@Zarko I think only tag badges are revoked.

@CarLaTeX I saw.

David Carlisle

@JosephWright, @UlrikeFischer I guess we should fix this...

Zarko

@yo', yes, for two points. I'm not sure, but seems that medals stay as before (i'm not very pedant about this)

David Carlisle

2

A: \adjustbox with XeLaTeX misplaces hyperlinks

Scaling a tabular is bad typesetting. It leads to uneven font sizes. If you want to scale something with a link then you should better do it with tikz, it is much better in setting the correct link area than the standard commands from graphicx: \documentclass{article} \usepackage{adjustbox,tik...

yo'

9:52 PM

@Zarko some of the badges are recalculated once a day

Ulrike Fischer

@DavidCarlisle But don't complain that I keep you busy ;-)

David Carlisle

@UlrikeFischer I was rather hoping that you and @JosephWright would fix it. don't be fooled by my gold badge I know nothing about tikz:-)

@UlrikeFischer the box generated by your tikz line is "interesting" but probably if I junk all the pointless glue and colour I can find the bits of the scaling specials that do the trick...

\hbox(17.97998+0.0)x112.5
.\hbox(17.97998+0.0)x112.5
..\glue 56.25
..\hbox(0.0+0.0)x0.0, shifted -8.98999
...\special{pdf:bcontent}
...\special{pdf:code q }
...\special{pdf:code 0 G }
...\special{pdf:code 0 g }
...\special{pdf:code 0.3985 w }
...\hbox(0.0+0.0)x0.0
....\glue 0.0
....\glue 0.0
....\glue 0.0
....\glue 0.0
....\glue 0.0
....\glue 0.0
....\glue 0.0
....\glue 0.0
....\glue 0.0
....\glue 0.0
....\glue 0.0
....\glue 0.0
....\glue 0.0
....\special{pdf:code q }
....\glue 0.0
....\hbox(0.0+0.0)x0.0

Jonas Stein

10:12 PM

hi, someone told me Microsoft had included LaTeX technology for an equation editor. I could not find any facts about this in the internet. Is there something trough about it?

David Carlisle

@JonasStein sort of, not so much the actual technology but the design of the (word 2007) math formatting was heavily influenced by TeX, I'll find a link...

\documentclass{article}
\usepackage{adjustbox,tikz}
\usepackage{hyperref}
\showoutput

\begin{document}\parskip2cm
\newcommand{\rubylink}{\href{en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ruby_(programming_language)}{Ruby}}

abc \rubylink cde

\setbox0\hbox{\scalebox{2}{abc \rubylink cde}}\showbox0

\box0

\setbox0\hbox{\tikz[scale=2,transform shape]\node[inner sep=0]{abc \rubylink cde};}\showbox0

\box0

\setbox0\hbox{%
\special{pdf:bcontent}%
\special{pdf:code q }%
\special{pdf:code 0.3985 w }%
\special{pdf:code q }%

@UlrikeFischer @JosephWright slightly more reasonable specials giving working scaled links ^^^

@JonasStein eg this blog of Murray (lead developer of the office math rendering) about talking to Knuth... blogs.msdn.microsoft.com/murrays/2011/04/30/…

4

@JonasStein or more recent entry that also mentions latex style input blogs.msdn.microsoft.com/murrays/2016/09/07/unicodemath

2

Jonas Stein

10:34 PM

@DavidCarlisle thank you for the links

ShreevatsaR

10:52 PM

@DavidCarlisle thanks from me too! And intriguingly, in a comment on the second link, Murray mentions that "next month's blog post" (i.e. this month, May) is related to “LaTeX based math in Office”? blogs.msdn.microsoft.com/murrays/2016/09/07/unicodemath/… Should be interesting to watch out for.

Alan Munn

@Zarko Given the unclarity of the \newcounter v v v v v v v v question I'm not sure it's helpful to answer it (and possibly contributes to further bad questions.) Of course it's your prerogative, but I wouldn't have answered it in its current state.

ShreevatsaR

11:18 PM

@AlanMunn For what it's worth even before reading the answer by @Zarko I had come to exactly the same interpretation of what the questioner wanted. I don't think the question is particularly unclear; it's just written badly / in poor style.

This is the question we're talking about, right? tex.stackexchange.com/questions/368397/…

“have doc with 30 math examples / how do I number these examples automatically / […] / like Example 1 blah blah Example 2 blah blah”
— one could clear up the language and punctuation and the formatting and basically everything, but to me it's clear that it's asking about automatic numbering.

(BTW the link in the comment to “What are good learning resources for a LaTeX beginner” goes to the question “Tikz tree drawing with comments to each level”, probably a typo when copying the link.)

Zarko

11:35 PM

@AlanMunn, I agree that question is poor formulated and formatted, but what is the problem is quite clear. Probably someone should edit the question and make title more clear, for example "How automatic numbering examples?"

ShreevatsaR

11:50 PM

Quite badly written and painful to read though...

I'd downvote it if it wasn't already at -1

But @AlanMunn as a linguist you should not insist that everyone speak in a register of "comprehensible English" ;-)

Alan Munn

@Zarko I'm not sure the problem is so clear, really. It looks like an XY problem to me. Or a reinventing the wheel problem. Thanks for noticing the link. I've fixed it.

@ShreevatsaR :) Touché. But I draw the line at 'v v v v v v v v '.

ShreevatsaR

yes even with exerting all my imagination I cannot even begin to understand what would lead someone to type that :)

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$TeX - LaTeX$ TeX, LaTeX and Friends