TeX, LaTeX and Friends - 2017-03-29

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Paulo Cereda

00:40

@MartinSchröder ooh :)

@AlanMunn LOL

Paulo Cereda

00:54

Two used items from two US-located stores. One can ship to Brazil, the other cannot. Any reasons for that? :(

I bought the used book from the one that could ship the item to me.

6 hours later…

yo'

06:36

@PauloCereda it's the comfort. International shipping is more complicated than local shipping and you havr to try quite hard to get it rasonably cheap. Also, international warranty is quite complicated.

2 hours later…

Ulrike Fischer

08:53

@PauloCereda Perhaps the one shop has bad experiences with sending things to brazil -- you never know when they will reach the addressee ;-)

daleif

What is the proper argument to researchers that writing 1-100 nm is just wrong, you might say it like that, but it should not be written like that.

Joseph Wright

09:10

@daleif Two things tend to be raised. First, there's the whole 'is this clear' business: it looks very similar to a subtraction. Second, conceptually a quantity is a single mathematical entity: the '1' and the 'nm' are not separable.

wilx

@daleif What's the problem with it? Dash vs en-dash?

Joseph Wright

@daleif You'll probably struggle to convince people: it's common to see 'X and Y nm' or 'X-Y nm' and similar in a wide variety of professionally-published work

Paulo Cereda

10:07

@yo' oh I never thought about that! Thanks for the insight, Tom!

@UlrikeFischer Indeed, it's a lottery! :)

daleif

10:41

@wilx that it is understood that nm apply to both 1 and 100. It is not explicitly stated which using 1 has when written like this. Sure you say this all the time, but IMO it is not proper syntax in writing.

Marco Daniel

10:53

Hello. Can someone reproduce the following issue? I am trying to use anchorcolor of the package hyperref. However it seems that the option has no effect. (ftp.fau.de/ctan/macros/latex/contrib/hyperref/doc/…)

\documentclass{article}
\usepackage[colorlinks = true,anchorcolor=red,linkcolor = blue]{hyperref}
\begin{document}
Target with color blue: \hyperlink{target}{Target}
\clearpage
Anchor with color red: \hypertarget{target}{Anchor}.
\end{document}

David Carlisle

11:10

@MarcoDaniel I only see anchorcolor being used in the tex4ht and vtex back ends....

  \begingroup
    \let\protect=\string
    \special{html:<a name=%
        \hyper@quote\HyperDestNameFilter{#1}\hyper@quote>}%
  \endgroup
  \Hy@activeanchortrue
  \Hy@colorlink\@anchorcolor\anchor@spot\Hy@endcolorlink
  \special{html:</a>}%

Marco Daniel

11:31

@DavidCarlisle Ah thanks. I will write an issue at github. Either the documentation will be improved or Heiko extents hyperref :-) (I hope for the second one)

David Carlisle

@MarcoDaniel ah well hyperref is currently under the care of the github "ho-tex support group" which is more or less me :(

Marco Daniel

@DavidCarlisle Oh -- I thought you are adding some changes based on the update of the LaTeX Kernel but Heiko is still the maintainer.

David Carlisle

@MarcoDaniel yes in principle (or rather mostly changes due to luatex changes) , but...

@MarcoDaniel which means that adding a github issue is a good idea as it stops it being lost, but actually feature requests are not likely to be handled soon, mostly just about find time to keep it working if something is broken completely,

Joseph Wright

11:50

Brexit is go ...

David Carlisle

@JosephWright :(

Joseph Wright

@DavidCarlisle Well yes, but now it is officially happening

Marco Daniel

@JosephWright Unfortunately

@DavidCarlisle It's a tracker and some other users can find it.

Joseph Wright

@DavidCarlisle Team meeting time?

Marco Daniel

@JosephWright It's a political situation where nobody wins.

egreg

11:59

@MarcoDaniel They should try the “Kobayashi Maru test”

3

Paulo Cereda

12:28

@JosephWright :(

yo'

13:11

@JosephWright :(

Paulo Cereda

@JosephWright I prefer Thunderbirds are go... :(

David Carlisle

13:29

@MarcoDaniel yes and there's always hope one of us finds time to work through issues (I closed a couple with a release last week)

@egreg you survived:-)

Joseph Wright

14:06

@DavidCarlisle :)

@DavidCarlisle Public announcement (@egreg?)

2 hours later…

Stefan Kottwitz

16:26

@DavidCarlisle Sorry that you got my rant yesterday. I was pretty frustrated about having to deal with lots of spam, that makes one wish to shutdown things.

egreg

16:48

@DavidCarlisle Yes, and I was even able to lecture afterwards

Johannes_B

16:59

@StefanKottwitz I would.

David Carlisle

17:24

@StefanKottwitz if that was a rant you should practice your ranting skills, I didn't notice:-)

David Carlisle

17:56

\documentclass{article}

\begin{document}

\setlength{\unitlength}{5pt}%


\begin{picture}(53,56)(29,-61)
\thinlines
\put(46,-51){\line( 1, 0){13}}
\put(60,-51){\line( 5, 3){7}}
\put(67,-47){\line( 3, 2){7}}
\multiput(75,-41)(1,8){110}{\makebox(1,11){\tiny}}
\put(76,-32){\line( 6, 1){5}}
\put(82,-32){\line(-2, 1){3}}
\put(79,-30){\line(-5, 6){5}}
\put(74,-24){\line(-1,-1){6}}
\put(69,-36){\line(-2, 5){3}}
\put(66,-29){\line(-6, 5){12}}
\put(54,-18){\line(-3, 5){7}}
\put(43,-6){\line( 1,-2){5}}
\put(39,-11){\line( 1,-1){9}}

@AlanMunn some people just get lucky ^^^

Heihej

Hi everyone. Does anybody have any pointers on how to use variables in title page creation? I have a manually written a title page, but it has sections like
\begin{minipage}{0.5\textwidth}
\textsc{Author 1}\\
\textsc{Author 2} \\
\textsc{Author 3}
\end{minipage}`
Now is the third time I'm using this title page, so I would like to move the 'data' into some sort of variables for easier editing for different groups (and for reuse in, for example, pdf metadata). Are there any best practices on how to do that? Is it useful in the first place?

David Carlisle

@Heihej bit hard to say in that generality, you can store the whole minipage as a single command if you want to use exactly that more than once, or store the authors names in commands or...

Alan Munn

@DavidCarlisle Chanelling Braque rather than Matisse I think. ;)

David Carlisle

@AlanMunn or Picasso perhaps?

@barbarabeeton is this on your list of known issues, probably split should at the very least warn it is about to mess up the output

1

A: Two AMS splits inside AMS align

don't use \\ in the last row of split \documentclass[12pt]{article} \usepackage{amsmath} \usepackage{amssymb} \usepackage{mathtools} \newcommand{\iu}{\mathrm{i}} %imaginary unit \newcommand{\eu}{\mathrm{e}} %euler number \newcommand{\dd}[1]{{\mathrm{d}#1}} %derivative \begin{document} \begi...

Heihej

@DavidCarlisle I was mostly thinking if there is some common way of storing data like this, like the \title{} and \author{} commands. But you're saying I can just as well invent my own names?

David Carlisle

18:14

@Heihej yes, some journal styles would let you use multiple author commands to store the names, but usually they store them in some custom structure just useful for the titlepage layout they use, so not really re-usable in the general case. of course the class you are using might be doing that already and `\author{author 1}\author{author2}... saves the data somewhere that you could use. or it might not...

Heihej

@DavidCarlisle Thanks! I found this question discussing using the \author{} value tex.stackexchange.com/questions/15804/…, but it seems somewhat useless since I need more data anyway (a subtitle, for example). I think I'll just give them my own names.

Johannes_B

18:38

@Heihej Might be helpful: Customizing a titlepage

Paulo Cereda

Is it safe for us to say that Han Solo is the father of Kylo Ren without the need of warning about spoilers?

barbara beeton

@DavidCarlisle -- no, but i'll add it. thanks. every single multi-line example in the amsmath documentation very carefully does not have a \\ at the end of the last line. i guess michael figured that was clear enough. but it's certainly reasonable to add a warning. do you think it warrants a warning in the log file too? (that requires move effort, on your part, not ours.)

David Carlisle

@barbarabeeton oh that's the kind of warning I meant yes in the code not in the manual, no one believes warnings in a manual:-)

@PauloCereda no

Paulo Cereda

@DavidCarlisle uh-oh

David Carlisle

@PauloCereda Do you think we should replace the l3 hummingbird by the code above?

barbara beeton

18:47

@DavidCarlisle -- well, if you're willing to do it ... i still think accurate and complete documentation in a manual is a good thing. at least, then, one can say "we told you so". thanks for pointing it out.

Paulo Cereda

@DavidCarlisle ooh let me run

David Carlisle

@barbarabeeton I'll think about it, can't say I've looked too closely at the split end-game to know if it is safe to check anythng there

Paulo Cereda

@DavidCarlisle THAT WAS AMAZING

David Carlisle

@PauloCereda I didn't get a gold tikz badge for nothing

Paulo Cereda

@DavidCarlisle :)

@DavidCarlisle: does @egreg have that badge?

David Carlisle

18:50

@PauloCereda yes but he doesn't deserve it

Paulo Cereda

@DavidCarlisle :)

barbara beeton

@DavidCarlisle -- it was certainly intended that none of the multi-line display structures would have \\ on the last line. i'll consider that when i get around to writing. it may or may not make a difference (mess?) anywhere else, but i can look at that too. if you have any information on that, let me know, so i can put it in the request writeup.

Paulo Cereda

@DavidCarlisle: arara 4.0 is now in the horizon, you should try aiming at a golden badge for it. :)

David Carlisle

@barbarabeeton yes it's a general feature of the ams environments (unlike latex array/tabular), but normally you just get a spurious row at the end looking like vertical space so it's sort of understandable, the behaviour with split seems particularly bad , moving the entire environment out of its correct alignment with the outer align

@PauloCereda after your thesis is done, I assume? I'm sure you are far too busy with the thesis to be preparing software releases.

Paulo Cereda

@DavidCarlisle Yes, that's correct. :) Yesterday I had a big step towards the final document, surprisingly (and against all odds). :)

barbara beeton

18:56

@DavidCarlisle -- okay. it's reasonable to warn about that too. thanks for details.

Paulo Cereda

@DavidCarlisle: you know, even after the real document is finished, people will still prod me about the thesis. :)

barbara beeton

@PauloCereda -- what! did the shaky bus take all your words and rearrange them into sensible prose?

Paulo Cereda

@barbarabeeton Close! I did type some of the text while in the shaky bus. :) I suspect the laptop on my lap was shaking in the exact opposite of the bus shaking, thus cancelling the overall shaking. Spooky! :)

@barbarabeeton: it's far from being finished, but now we have a taste of things to be written in the upcoming months. :)

David Carlisle

@PauloCereda like badges there are always more degrees you could try to collect

Paulo Cereda

@DavidCarlisle :D

1 hour later…

egreg

20:20

@PauloCereda I got it much earlier than DPC

@PauloCereda From a post on the site: “The class I'm using just configures a document according to ABNT rules (a Brazilian normatization organ), based on a LaTeX package called ABNTeX (aptly named for ABsurd Norms for TeX)”

@PauloCereda It reminds me about Mr A. B. Normal

ilFuria

Hello

Joseph Wright

@ilFuria Hello

ilFuria

I'd just like to strengthen my table-setting skills for an upcoming typesetting job… I was thinking of reading Voß' "Typesetting Talbes with LaTeX". Has anyone here read it, or have a better suggestion?

Joseph Wright

@ilFuria You've read the booktabs documentation?

ilFuria

@JosephWright I was just going through it right now… but is one package documentation enough?

Joseph Wright

20:32

@ilFuria Depends what you want to do

ilFuria

@JosephWright Well… maybe the problem is that right now it's unclear even to me what has to be done. I have a couple of books to typeset (an RPG manual, and a banking operator guideline manual), but the material is not available to me yet; the RPG manual is deemed to be stacked with tables though, so I thought I'd best learn as much as possible about typesetting them (it's a weakness of mine, since I never had to use that many tables, not even in my thesis), in order not to struggle later

I mean: they surely won't be "scientific" tables, but tables indeed

Joseph Wright

@ilFuria Going to depend to some extent on your design brief: formal tables a la booktabs are rather plain compared to some approaches

ilFuria

@JosephWright yes, perhaps you're right. I agree that booktabs will solve almost any table design problem. I will do as I usually do in these cases: should trouble come, trial and error, and then TeX.SE :)

David Carlisle

@JosephWright coloured hhline anyone?

Joseph Wright

@DavidCarlisle I was thinking of Excel-like ones but yes ...

@DavidCarlisle Isn't that all your ~~fault~~ idea?

ilFuria

20:42

@JosephWright from booktabs documentation:
1. Never, ever use vertical rules.
2. Never use double rules.

does anyone really still need such guidelines?

David Carlisle

@JosephWright yes but only a joke to inflict in others, I never used any of that

Joseph Wright

@ilFuria Er, have you seen tables in Excel?

@DavidCarlisle :)

ilFuria

@JosephWright Excel is a spreadsheet tool, neither a book designing nor a table-typesetting tool

David Carlisle

@ilFuria half the tables posted to questions on this site have vertical rules

ilFuria

@DavidCarlisle I died a bit inside

David Carlisle

20:45

@ilFuria texdoc colortbl has lots of excellent examples of good taste tables....

ilFuria

@DavidCarlisle thanks

David Carlisle

@ilFuria look before you thank me:-)

ilFuria

@DavidCarlisle my eyes… I cannot unsee what I've just seen

@DavidCarlisle such an exquisite choice of colors

@DavidCarlisle I have to admit, sir, it's the first time I see double vertical rules. Bravo.

(nice package to consider, though)

egreg

@ilFuria Then you're prepared to look at the manual of tabu: it's even worse!

Joseph Wright

@ilFuria Yes but it's what many people expect

@egreg Ah, the 'famous' tabu

ilFuria

20:57

@egreg dunno… there are some psychedelic examples right there too, but colortbl has that one table… you know which one…

David Carlisle

@ilFuria I wanted to be sure people noticed it was coloured. No point messing around with pastel shades, poke 'em in the eye with some primary colour.

ilFuria

@DavidCarlisle indeed, it was impossible not to notice. It's a colorblind-friendly package!

yo'

21:49

@egreg Can I have an algebraic question, please? Do you consider $\{0\}$ a ring?

egreg

22:05

@yo' Yes, of course. Where's the problem? It even has an identity!

Maeher

@yo' there's nothing to "consider", it satisfies all requirements of the definition of a ring

yo'

@Maeher I've seen people saying "non-zero element one"

Alan Munn

@DavidCarlisle I chose Braque for a reason: he was, along with Matisse a Fauviste, who then became (along with Picasso) one of the first cubists.

David Carlisle

@AlanMunn perhaps I aspire to fame more than artistic originality

Maeher

@yo' So you're saying people claim that the multiplicative and additive identities cannot be the same?

Alan Munn

22:14

@DavidCarlisle Or really bad puns: pic-asso :)

David Carlisle

@AlanMunn :-) (but I didn't dare post it as an answer anyway)

yo'

@Maeher I've surely heard it before, yes. The point is, when they are the same, it's necessarily the one-element algebra.

Maeher

@yo' never seen that in any definition of a ring

There's even a wikipedia page just for the zero ring: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zero_ring :D

yo'

@Maeher well, it's good for me so I don't complain :-)

Alan Munn

@DavidCarlisle I think that's a wise choice, given your previous experience. :)

yo'

22:18

(my problem is, I've got a product of some ideals, and the product is a ring. Now, what happens if the product is empty?)

Alan Munn

@DavidCarlisle Although given this answer maybe you'll even get a bounty if you do.

David Carlisle

@AlanMunn well deserved, don't you agree?

Alan Munn

@DavidCarlisle Compared to your most recent oeuvre it seems a bit on the realist side to me.

David Carlisle

@AlanMunn true, but that question did ask for technical drawing, so I had to curb other artistic traits

Alan Munn

@DavidCarlisle :)

egreg

22:26

@yo' Fields need 1 different from 0

@yo' How can a product of ideals be empty?

Maeher

well, if you have a set of zero ideals and you multiply all of them....

yo'

@egreg I mean $\prod_{I\in\emptyset} I$

@Maeher exactly

cfr

23:12

Do people put cheat sheets on CTAN? If so, is it useful to do this or not? I wrote one for a workshop as I couldn't find one on Biblatex/Biber and I just wondered if it might be of any use to anybody else. (But probably somebody would have already written one if it was.)

Alan Munn

@cfr There's a latex cheat sheet CTAN and and errors cheat sheet. So if if your question is interpreted as purely existential, then yes. :)

@cfr I think it's a good idea, but I wonder how people find out about them.

cfr

@AlanMunn Any better suggestions?

@AlanMunn Q1 was purely existential. Q2 was not ;).

Alan Munn

@cfr I guess put it on a web page and get a @PauloCereda to write a bot to boost the hits to it on Google. :) But more seriously, putting it on CTAN and then talking about it on the site might not be a bad way to get the word out.

cfr

@AlanMunn Thanks. I think.

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