TeX, LaTeX and Friends

Joseph Wright

06:06

@DavidCarlisle All looks entirely sensible but needs agreement on the e-TeX busines

Joseph Wright

06:16

@DavidCarlisle See commits to graphics-def re that weird XeTeX business

David Carlisle

06:51

@JosephWright looks good, by the way is there a thing like diff -rPREV in svn to see the change at the last update, I got the id from the log then:

 git diff 31972815c2f57a03d9e0d517de841dc813ec19cc xetex.def
diff --git a/xetex.def b/xetex.def
index f30eebb..a432f12 100644
--- a/xetex.def
+++ b/xetex.def
@@ -673,7 +673,8 @@
 \def\Grot@end{\special{x:grestore}}

 \def\Gscale@start{%
-  \special{x:gsave}\special{x:scale \Gscale@x\space\Gscale@y}}
+  \special{x:gsave}%
+  \special{pdf:literal \Gscale@x\space 0 0 \Gscale@y\space 0 0 cm}}
 \let\Gscale@end\Grot@end
 %

but seemed less intuitive than it might be, I tried git help diff but that had too much information for this time in the morning

@JosephWright I plan to patch graphics division for the other issue in that sx question so perhaps we could update them together, or if we are doing a latex update soon.. roll it all together (if)

Joseph Wright

@DavidCarlisle git show HEAD for the last commit, git show HEAD~1 for the one before that, etc. or do git log, find the hash and git show <hash>

@DavidCarlisle Prod Frank!

David Carlisle

ooh git show don't think I've used that before:-)

Joseph Wright

@DavidCarlisle It's the best command to show just a single commit :)

David Carlisle

@JosephWright so it seems, thanks.

wilx

07:09

@JosephWright Things that you can learn in TeX related chat... I have been using Git for some time now but I did not know about show either. :D

wilx

07:42

Whoa, a fancyhdr update!

egreg

08:35

@wilx There have been two in a few days, actually.

wilx

I see. I have only now updated.

Paulo Cereda

08:57

Downloading Sierra. :)

egreg

@PauloCereda Audacious

Joseph Wright

@DavidCarlisle Will you raise the graphics business on the team list or should I mention it in the e-TeX thread?

@egreg One way of putting it

Paulo Cereda

@egreg And no thesis backup!

David Carlisle

@JosephWright I could later, need to do some work stuff first:-)

@PauloCereda s/boo/hurray!/

Paulo Cereda

@DavidCarlisle &boo

David Carlisle

09:08

@PauloCereda hmm don't edit history when you intend a new comment (note to myself)

Paulo Cereda

@DavidCarlisle Let us try a pointer. :)

David Carlisle

@PauloCereda incompatible pointer type (I'm an expert on those)

egreg

@PauloCereda You don't need a backup for \documentclass[a4paper]{book}, do you?

Paulo Cereda

@DavidCarlisle My most favourite moment when I was TA for C classes was to make a function return a void pointer then cast it later on. :)

@egreg Wait a minute, what class I am using?

egreg

@PauloCereda “The die is cast”?

@PauloCereda Oh, is it abntex2?

Paulo Cereda

09:12

@egreg LOL

@egreg No. :)

Joseph Wright

@DavidCarlisle :)

@DavidCarlisle Occurs to me that graphics needs to load with plain, and that might be TeX90 ...

David Carlisle

10:33

@JosephWright yes I'd use the fixed (graphics+ above) division and just use the etex version if \dimexpr defined)

Joseph Wright

@DavidCarlisle Was my guess

@DavidCarlisle So that can go even without a formal requirement for e-TeX

David Carlisle

@JosephWright yes

@PauloCereda ah, yes, I believe it's what's called a strongly typed language:-)

David Carlisle

12:28

@JosephWright I didn't have many bytes to spare while adding the extra optional minipage arguments:-)

Joseph Wright

@DavidCarlisle Understand :)

David Carlisle

@JosephWright I'm wondering if the answer ought to walk through what happens but probably I'll just leave it at that.

Joseph Wright

@DavidCarlisle For an end-user it's not that helpful to know that 'There's no error checking as in 1994 there was no space'

@DavidCarlisle Nowadays we've got several options for something similar: csname lookup, case switch, single-token check, ...

David Carlisle

@JosephWright users shouldn't make errors, then it isn't an issue.

@JosephWright, although \if b#1\vbox instead of \if#1b\vbox would be a touch safer

Joseph Wright

@DavidCarlisle Yes, that is true

@DavidCarlisle We can change that I guess ...

@DavidCarlisle I mean, if we go with Frank's current ideas there are going to be more significant things going on than rearranging a couple of letters ...

David Carlisle

12:41

@JosephWright but if you are going to change may as well check it is just one character as well. anyway I added a bit of explanation to my answer

@JosephWright I blame Alice.

Joseph Wright

@DavidCarlisle Also true

@DavidCarlisle Good plan

@DavidCarlisle Speaking of that, that's where the current JF 'fun' started: it was suggested to me we ask Frank to talk at UK-TUG. He turns out to be busy ...

Johannes_B

14:07

"Hi, How can I change the setting to have my references sorted by author last name? Thanks"

Ulrike Fischer

14:47

@DavidCarlisle: Is this to be expected that natwidth/natheight gives an error with pdflatex?

\documentclass{article}
\usepackage{graphicx}
\begin{document}
\includegraphics[natheight=1in, natwidth=1in]{example-image}
\end{document}

! Undefined control sequence.
<argument> ...@base \Gin@ext  image\GPT@AttrShort
                                                  \ifx \GPT@print \ltx@empty...
l.21 ...atheight=1in, natwidth=1in]{example-image}

Johannes_B

@UlrikeFischer Yes, i asked the same question a few weeks ago here in chat.

Ulrike Fischer

@Johannes_B Ah. Why not a warning like the bb option?

David Carlisle

@UlrikeFischer ask Heiko: GPT="it's not my fault" :-)

Joseph Wright

@DavidCarlisle Yup

@DavidCarlisle Exactly what I was thinking :)

@DavidCarlisle I guess I really will have to write expl3 image-inclusion drivers one day

Ulrike Fischer

@DavidCarlisle Ok, so it is a bug and not a feature. Perhaps you could add a remark to grfguide that these options don't work with the pdftex driver.

David Carlisle

14:55

@UlrikeFischer we were planning a graphics-def update anyway as xetex.def and graphics.sty needed fixing for tex.stackexchange.com/questions/328825/… so I suppose I could look to see if I can make it do something more friendly

@Johannes_B what answer did you get?

Johannes_B

@DavidCarlisle Can't remember and can't find it right now.

David Carlisle

@UlrikeFischer they should be equivalent to bb really, natheight=h natwidth=w is same as bb= 0 0 w h, I'll see what I can do...

\documentclass{article}
\usepackage{graphicx}
\makeatletter
\def\GPT@fix{%
  \begingroup\expandafter\expandafter\expandafter\endgroup
  \expandafter\ifx\csname define@key\endcsname\relax
  \else
    \def\KV@Gin@bb{%
      \GPT@warn{%
        Option `bb' does not make sense,\MessageBreak
        using `viewport' instead%
      }%
      \KV@Gin@viewport
    }%
    \define@key{Gin}{natheight}{\GPT@disable{natheight}}%
    \define@key{Gin}{natwidth}{\GPT@disable{natwidth}}%
    \define@key{Gin}{bbllx}{\GPT@disable{bbllx}}%

@UlrikeFischer ^^^^^^

Ulrike Fischer

@DavidCarlisle Looks perfect. ;-)

David Carlisle

15:13

@UlrikeFischer I'd rather the def file wasn't patching its own package commands but since it is doing that just making it do the same for those two seems the most consistent thing. I'm not convinced that bb and friends really don't make sense for pdftex. in the original latex+dvips model if you lied to latex about the original size by putting "wrong" dimensions, then all that happened was that scaling and positioning etc assumed the specified size but the actual image inclusion included ..

@UlrikeFischer .. the real image so perhaps overprinted or other strange artefacts. No reason why same could not happen in pdftex, even if that is not that useful. so \includegraphics[natheight=1in, natwidth=1in]{example-image} would leave a 1in square of space but include the image at its natural size

sky-light

@DavidCarlisle Hi, I have a question please

Ulrike Fischer

@DavidCarlisle Well the difference between viewport and bb is that the first is "relative to the origin of the bounding box". I have actually no idea if (with pdftex and the graphic formats it supports) there could be a case where the two options give a different result. Can the origin be different to 0 0?

sky-light

I have a problem with caption in long horizontal table

\begin{landscape}
\caption{This is long horizontal table}
\begin{longtable} {c c c c c c c }
.
.
.
\end{longtable}
\end{landscape}

! LaTeX Error: \caption outside float

David Carlisle

@UlrikeFischer other than for eps the bounding box is really the same as the size, that is the origin is 0 0 at the bottom left corner and the top right coordinate is the real size, but in latex+dvips whatever the boundingbox is (or if it's a bitmap image) you can say natheight=3in natwidth=5pt and latex will be happy and work as if the image had that size so just leave that space and include the image without scaling

@sky-light no you have a problem with a caption that is not in a table, that is why it gives an error.

@sky-light put it inside the longtable, see texdoc longtable section 3 "Captions and Headings"

Ulrike Fischer

15:28

@DavidCarlisle Yes I know, as you can with viewport= 0 0 3in 5pt. Imho the "bb doesn't make sense" problably simply means "does the same as viewport so we don't need another option".

David Carlisle

@UlrikeFischer true it's no extra functionality but it is just an extra complication when moving between latex and pdflatex that it generates a warning, although to be fair if you had bb on an eps and then ran epstopdf you'd have to figure out whether to clip to the bounding box while making the pdf and ignore it when including the pdf, or to make the pdf the full image and clip to the bb on including the pdf or... or make it be disabled:-)

@UlrikeFischer anyway if existing uses of natwidth always give an undefined command error and the above code makes it do a more sensible warning I'll do that (and I assume same for luatex) at next release.

Ulrike Fischer

@JosephWright Just saw your message on the miktex list. You should read what David and me have been discussed regarding natwidth ...

sky-light

@DavidCarlisle Thanks. could you tell me how to centre it?

Joseph Wright

@UlrikeFischer Yes, I saw that, but this is not the same as saying that beamer 'doesn't work' with graphics

Ulrike Fischer

@JosephWright The lesser the knowledge the broader the claims ...

Joseph Wright

15:38

@DavidCarlisle A lot of this could really do to be properly cleaned up, of course (lots of add-ons over time whilst you were busy with other stuff)

David Carlisle

@sky-light caption package is perhaps easiest way it will customise longtable and float captions

@JosephWright yes driver specific .def files adding new user level package options wasn't part of the original design:-)

Paulo Cereda

@DavidCarlisle Yes. :)

Joseph Wright

@DavidCarlisle Could we move them back to graphicx?

David Carlisle

@JosephWright we could, but we'd have to know what they are and what they are supposed to do for the other drivers (probably not that hard but other things always higher priority)

@PauloCereda did you spot the missing * in the email:-)

Joseph Wright

@DavidCarlisle Like I said, perhaps easier if I just write some kind of expl3 version :-)

Paulo Cereda

15:44

@DavidCarlisle Answering as we speak. :)

StrongBad

I don't want to stir up to much trouble, but it is something that has been bugging me on and off for a while. As far as I can tell the LaTeX3 team is all male (and I think all white), even including the past members. Have you ever discussed diversification (not that finding women TeXperts is easy).

Paulo Cereda

@StrongBad I contribute occasionally and I am a South American duck. :)

David Carlisle

@StrongBad selection procedure for women is same as for men, you have to be stupid enough to be tricked in to a lifetime of work for no pay:-)

3

StrongBad

@DavidCarlisle but have you guys actively tried to trick women (that sounds bad).

David Carlisle

@StrongBad active membership is sufficiently small that I doubt there is any statistical reliability in saying it is all men or all women, if there were a few dozen people perhaps but only two or three people have committed to the latex3 and a different two or three people have commited to the 2e repositories in the last decade or so.

Joseph Wright

15:49

@StrongBad We recently asked someone with expertise in CJK work (and who I assume is east Asian): they were regrettably not able to take up the offer at this stage

@StrongBad The team have tended to have a small number of direct committers, though reports and ideas come from a wider pool (e.g. see above from @UlrikeFischer)

David Carlisle

@JosephWright was that a woman? (I didn't know:-) (not good at determining gender from names:-)

Joseph Wright

@DavidCarlisle I'm not 100%: I think not

@DavidCarlisle I'm not even 100% sure of the person concerned 'real world' name!

StrongBad

@DavidCarlisle I understand, I was just curious if it had been talked about. Probably even hard to address when you don't actually know the people.

@JosephWright how many of the team members (and TeX.se users) have met in real life.

Is that actually David's photo?

Joseph Wright

@StrongBad During my time on the team we've only had two discussions about possible invites: one to Bruno and one to this other person (who said no, sadly)

@StrongBad Did you see the TUG2015 meeting-up photo?

David Carlisle

@StrongBad if you had asked before darmstadt tug2016 meeting the answer would have been that most had not met (Frank and I have known each other for 25 years or so, but I hadn't met Will or Bruno before this summer)

sky-light

15:53

@DavidCarlisle Thank you so much. I appreciate your help.

Joseph Wright

@StrongBad I've met Frank, David, Robin, Bruno, Will, Johannes

wilx

Geebus, gender politics in here? Please don't.

:(

Joseph Wright

@wilx Not gender politics, I think, in the sense as @DavidCarlisle says there really isn't enough data to go on

David Carlisle

@StrongBad yes I really am that grey

StrongBad

@JosephWright apparently TeX fame doesn't buy you much

Paulo Cereda

15:55

Also, L3 team has not enough Apache helicopters.

Joseph Wright

@StrongBad Beyond the team, I know Nicola Talbot quite well as she also works at UEA (Norwich), I've met the various people who were at Darmstadt, then there are the 'UK-TUG regulars'

StrongBad

@PauloCereda I am not sure if that would speed up development or slow it down.

Paulo Cereda

@StrongBad It was a joke. :)

StrongBad

@PauloCereda Couple of months ago I help setup a research project in an Apache simulator.

Paulo Cereda

@StrongBad OMG

I'd be pew pew pew all the time!

StrongBad

16:03

@PauloCereda got to spend an afternoon at armyaviationmuseum.org in both the museum and the storage hangers. Totally cool.

David Carlisle

@JosephWright are you in touch with tikz devs these days, is there a version using lua os.exec directly to save this:

2

A: Using tikz/pgf and gnuplot with lualatex

\write18 shell escape does not work by default for newer luatex, the shellesc package puts it back, this works for me: \RequirePackage{luatex85,shellesc} \documentclass{article} \usepackage{tikz} \begin{document} \pagestyle{empty} \begin{tikzpicture}[domain=0:4] \draw[very thin,color=gray] (-0...

StrongBad

I am pretty sure pew pew pew slipped out a couple of times.

Paulo Cereda

@StrongBad Looks awesome, but there might be quite complicated for me to reach this museum. :)

David Carlisle

@PauloCereda www2.fab.mil.br/musal

Paulo Cereda

@DavidCarlisle ooh Rio is definitely a bit closer.

StrongBad

16:07

@PauloCereda and a lot nicer than Alabama.

Joseph Wright

@StrongBad There's not really an active recruitment policy: what you are looking for in an open-source project is people who contribute ideas, code, etc. over time and who are willing to 'join up'. With bigger projects you might have a core set of 'drivers' and allow in some way commits by others

@StrongBad At our scale, basically everyone who commits is a team member (though nowadays we can consider pull requests on GitHub: normally those are allowed from 'known' contributors)

@DavidCarlisle Till doesn't tend to answer me :(

David Carlisle

@JosephWright oh well more tikz points for me then I'll get that gold badge yet.

Joseph Wright

@DavidCarlisle I suspect since he managed to palm off beamer on me/Vedran he's keen to avoid being asked too many difficult questions ('Why are the internals such a mess?', for example)

StrongBad

@JosephWright that is cool. It sounds like everything is open to anyone who wants to contribute. I was just curious.

Joseph Wright

@StrongBad That is certainly true: I have a 'to do' list for anyone really interested!

@StrongBad One issue is that the really important stuff is hard and there are limited experts: for a lot of it, the set seems to be 3 (Frank/David/Chris, at least in my mind)

OK, probably Bruno too but he's more likely to do bonkers stuff

David Carlisle

16:11

@JosephWright you'd better include yourself in that list if you want to see the work done:-)

Joseph Wright

@DavidCarlisle /sigh I know

@DavidCarlisle OR, document formatting stuff, etc., really is down to Frank, you and (ideas from) Chris, though, isn't it?

@DavidCarlisle My plan is to make everything keyval, a la ConTeXt ;-)

@DavidCarlisle Also, if you let me loose I'm likely to say 'sod this back compatibility lark, let's get on with some real rewriting' :-)

@DavidCarlisle I see my role as annoying the rest of the team until they do the work just to shut me up

StrongBad

@JosephWright they should let you lose then.

Joseph Wright

@DavidCarlisle You are of course right, and I think I do contribute from time to time :)

StrongBad

It seems like the publishers who want backwards compatibility do not even upgrade when updates are provided

Joseph Wright

@StrongBad There is an element of truth there, though there is also a need to balance that off with some stability

David Carlisle

16:17

@StrongBad it's tricky. It's clear that you could write something better these days (more knowledge and a lot more token memory) but arguably that's what context is and it has to a first approximation no users. If the aim is to write something that people use, just being better isn't enough it has to be compatible enough that you can sell it as an "upgrade" rather than a "switch"

Joseph Wright

@StrongBad @DavidCarlisle's just summarised the team list for the entire period I've been on the team :)

StrongBad

@DavidCarlisle I can see that. I would be happy to switch if I could see a benefit. For example, I am very happy that I made the switch from bibtex to biber/biblatex.

David Carlisle

@StrongBad also it isn't just publishers who want compatibility, look at a typical user document posted here it uses 50 contributed packages off ctan so you can typeset your music notation in parallel with chess diagrams in a three fold pamphlet using a system comic sans font. so a new improved kernel has to be compatible enough to load those packages or big enough to include the functionality already or lose end users.

Joseph Wright

@DavidCarlisle Or we have to get packages fixed to work with a change ...

Paulo Cereda

@DavidCarlisle, @JosephWright: I need a funny name for my template/code snippet talk...

David Carlisle

16:30

@JosephWright still haven't managed to get all contrib packages updated for the etex allocation, never mind luatex changes:-)

Joseph Wright

@DavidCarlisle True

@DavidCarlisle LuaTeX team are not so bothered about breaking things, of course

David Carlisle

@JosephWright stage 1 have no users, stage 2, free to break things...

Joseph Wright

@DavidCarlisle :)

Johannes_B

Mediawiki, you gotta enjoy editing mediawiki articles

Ulrike Fischer

16:57

@DavidCarlisle: Heiko posted a extension for the graphics package in a german group

\documentclass{article}
\usepackage{graphicx}
\usepackage{tikz}
\newcommand*{\SlantedImage}[3][]{%
\begingroup
\sbox0{\includegraphics[{#1}]{#3}}%
\pgfmathsetmacro\xslant{tan(#2)}%
\edef\ImageHeight{\the\dimexpr\dp0+\ht0}%
\pgfmathsetlengthmacro\ImageWidth{\wd0 + \ImageHeight*\xslant}%
\sbox0{%
\tikz[
inner sep=0pt,
baseline=(current bounding box.south),
transform canvas={xslant=\xslant},
]\node[above right]{\copy0};%
}%
\wd0=\ImageWidth\relax
\ht0=\ImageHeight\relax
\usebox{0}%
\endgroup
}

\begin{document}

Neat isn't it? ;-)

Paulo Cereda

@UlrikeFischer ooh

Alan Munn

Hi a quick (I think) titling + titleps question.

\documentclass{article}
\usepackage{fontspec}
\usepackage[pagestyles]{titlesec}
\usepackage{parskip}
\usepackage{titling}
\newpagestyle{main}{
\setfoot{\emph{\thetitle}}{}{\thepage}}
\pagestyle{main}
\title{The title}
\begin{document}
\maketitle
\thispagestyle{main}
\section{A section}
\end{document}

Ulrike Fischer

@PauloCereda I saw today a book "beautiful ducks" (schöne Enten) buecher.de/shop/buecher/schoene-enten/wright-liz/…

Alan Munn

The document outputs the section number instead of the title. Why?

Johannes_B

The LaTeX wikibook is currently featured (advertised as good). We can discuss, why the book should not be featured at the moment. @barbarabeeton @egreg @yo' @others

Paulo Cereda

17:02

@UlrikeFischer ooh that's a very nice duck featured in the cover!

egreg

@Johannes_B Meanwhile, there's the usual cryptic question by you know whom.

Johannes_B

@egreg Alredy seen. His understanding of LaTeX seems to not have gron meanwhile.

Alan Munn

17:39

No nibbles? ^^^^

yo'

@egreg I'm casting a close vote.

egreg

@AlanMunn Line 412 in titlesec.sty: \gdef\thetitle{\csname the#1\endcsname}

@AlanMunn As soon as you do \section, \thetitle changes its meaning

Alan Munn

@egreg That would do it. Grrr. Thanks.

yo'

@egreg Also, I couldn't resist a bold comment on the other question. Let's call it "sport" :-)

barbara beeton

@Johannes_B -- i'm not so clear on what that page is trying to say -- just that the "featured" designation should be removed, or the page should be removed altogether. (probably the former, but i don't want to commit myself at the moment.) i think it does need serious attention, and it's a rather daunting task, since it's so huge. my time just now is rather constrained; should clear up in about a month (i hope!). more by email.

Alan Munn

17:47

@egreg So whose problem is it? (Apart from mine). My intuition is it's titlesec which should use an internal name for this, since \thetitle is not a user command.

egreg

@AlanMunn Here's a workaround

\documentclass{article}
\usepackage{fontspec}
\usepackage[pagestyles]{titlesec}
\usepackage{parskip}
\usepackage{titling}
\usepackage{etoolbox}

\patchcmd{\title}{\thetitle}{\THEtitle}{}{}

\newpagestyle{main}{\setfoot{\emph{\THEtitle}}{}{\thepage}}
\pagestyle{main}
\title{The title}

\begin{document}
\maketitle
\thispagestyle{main}
\section{A section}
\end{document}

@AlanMunn Your intuition is almost correct, users can use \thetitle; but it is the wrong name anyway, because it refers to the current section number.

@AlanMunn First lines in section 2.5 of titlesec manual

Johannes_B

@barbarabeeton The site linked is just about removing the featured tag, not deleting the whole wikibook. I spent quite some time doing stuff, eveen if it is just a minor blib looking at the big picture. I don t want the book deleted.

barbara beeton

@Johannes_B -- i agree that what's needed is a thorough overhaul. (but thanks for confirming.)

Alan Munn

@egreg Yes, now I see (I searched in the titleps docs by mistake, which is why I didn't find it.)

Johannes_B

@barbarabeeton en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Talk:LaTeX/Errors_and_Warnings I decided to start on that today, on a piece of paper. And now, looking at it, i see that that article is quite verbose. I need to check, if my hard thinking was a waste of time.

egreg

18:04

@AlanMunn Indeed, if you do \usepackage{titleps} instead of loading titlesec, there's no problem with \thetitle

Joseph Wright

@UlrikeFischer Another one for expl3 \graphics_... :)

Alan Munn

18:19

@egreg I'll email Javier about it.

Johannes_B

@egreg Just now, i realized that there wasn't a single question by the user, but three.

wilx

Damn, ?` apparently produces some sort of upside down question mark. Can I avoid it by doing something in preamble? This shows in LaTeX generated by Pandoc so I cannot just do {?} to avoid it.

Paulo Cereda

2

@Johannes_B ^^

Johannes_B

@PauloCereda :-D <3

yo'

18:36

@wilx in lualatex

barbara beeton

@wilx -- you've apparently got a < or > sign in text in a document using the original computer modern fonts. those symbols need to be in math mode to be rendered as what you think they ought to be.

wilx

@barbarabeeton Nope. I have question mark followed by backtick.

Well, I can apparently trick it by inserting zero width space between the question mark and the back-tick.

barbara beeton

@wilx -- okay, then it may be a "ligature pair" intended for use in spanish. can you separate them by a space?

yep. you figured it out.

David Carlisle

@wilx not so easily, you could make ? or ` active, but that has problems too, or you put in a pandoc bug report:-)

yo'

@wilx even {} would do

wilx

18:42

@yo' Yup, except that I am converting from Markdown to LaTeX. :)

David Carlisle

@wilx bug in convertor

yo'

@wilx I know. It's as @DavidC says

wilx

I think I have recently seen a bug report regarding this already.

David Carlisle

@wilx just run the generated latex through sed or perl or whatever you choose to replace ? by {?}

@barbarabeeton one of DEK's less good ideas:-)

yo'

@DavidCarlisle just make ` active? Shouldn't hurt much...

Paulo Cereda

18:48

@yo' :)

Joseph Wright

@DavidCarlisle :)

barbara beeton

@DavidCarlisle -- true enough, but when he implemented it, he didn't know it was going to be used by hordes of other people. all he mainly wanted it for was taocp, where he and his secretary would be doing the input.

Paulo Cereda

@barbarabeeton ooh lotsa people

yo'

@barbarabeeton becoming a legend "unintentionally"? :-)

David Carlisle

@yo' make it active and stop ligature with ? but keep ligature with ` is a bit tricky and making it robust so quotes work in captions etc...

barbara beeton

18:53

@DavidCarlisle -- could always just locally change the ligaturing instructions in affected fonts. tftopl and pltotf are lots of fun! (don't know how you'd do it with a font that isn't based on .tfm though.)

David Carlisle

@barbarabeeton @wilkz that's what you should do, forget this pandoc nonsense just dictate the text to your secretary and have her (or I'd better say, him) type it up in tex to have processed overnight and printed on paper by the next morning. Problem solved.

@barbarabeeton I did think that but thought it would be too arcane to suggest:-)

Paulo Cereda

@DavidCarlisle ever the pragmatic, I see. :)

barbara beeton

@DavidCarlisle -- nothing is too arcane for this crowd!

5

yo'

ouch, I've got blind spots in my English vocabulary /googles "arcane"

barbara beeton

19:11

@yo' -- hang around here for long, and we'll fix that! (mostly polite vocabulary too.)

yo'

@barbarabeeton it's happening already :)

Paulo Cereda

So... Angelina Jolie is single now...

hmmm

David Carlisle

@PauloCereda your chance to marry Brad?

Paulo Cereda

@DavidCarlisle Oh no!

Joseph Wright

@DavidCarlisle :)

Paulo Cereda

19:27

I will say to Angelina if she's a robust command, as my heart is fragile for her. <3

Johannes_B

@PauloCereda If i would have the chance to invite her to a cup of coffee, i wouldn't do it. I would invite Shakira, though ;-)

Paulo Cereda

@Johannes_B ooh hips don't lie.

Johannes_B

19:47

@PauloCereda Exactly :-)

David Carlisle

20:17

@yo' maybe this will help:-)

translate.google.com/#en/cs/arcane

Canageek

@JosephWright Ok, so the micro sign looks fine in my body text, but the mu in chemmacros doesn't. The question is, is it worth it to spend the time fixing only thing I care about?

yo'

21:07

@DavidCarlisle really funny...

David Carlisle

@yo' I have absolute faith in google translate

@JosephWright hmm biber updated the other day:-)

Can't load '/tmp/par-646176696463/cache-128a18f7440676b8f4632879a6f42b099bad8a05/79c777c9.dll' for module Text::BibTeX: No such process at /loader/HASH(0x6001b6b28)/DynaLoader.pm line 193.
 at /loader/HASH(0x60023f7e0)/PAR/Heavy.pm line 120.
Compilation failed in require at /tmp/par-646176696463/cache-128a18f7440676b8f4632879a6f42b099bad8a05/inc/lib/Biber.pm line 40.
BEGIN failed--compilation aborted at /tmp/par-646176696463/cache-128a18f7440676b8f4632879a6f42b099bad8a05/inc/lib/Biber.pm line 40.

Joseph Wright

@DavidCarlisle Report to PLK: not my fault!

Canageek

I thought everything was Joseph's fault?

3

Joseph Wright

@Canageek I'm almost minded to pin that

David Carlisle

@Canageek that's a reasonable starting assumption

@JosephWright can't open a ticket at sourceforge.net/p/biblatex-biber/bugs/# ? how are bugs supposed to be reported?

Torbjørn T.

21:30

@DavidCarlisle github.com/plk/biber

David Carlisle

@TorbjørnT. oh it's on gh, how come google lead me to sf, was it there originally? (thanks!)

Torbjørn T.

@DavidCarlisle Don't know, probably.

David Carlisle

21:47

@TorbjørnT. github.com/plk/biber/issues/140

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