TeX, LaTeX and Friends

Paulo Cereda

00:13

@DavidCarlisle: Hi!

Paulo Cereda

02:11

@egreg: the impeachment process now moves to the senate.

Paulo Cereda

02:40

David Carlisle

06:56

@PauloCereda hi sort of almost back, I think (thanks for the mail:-)

GPhys

07:11

I can't get this biblatex author field to work: author = {Ji\v{r}\'{i} Lebl},

just "Lebl" works

moving/adding curly braces around the dicritics didn't help :(

Johannes_B

@GPhys Can't you input the unicode characters directly? Try it out.

GPhys

@Johannes_B Oh there is no way to do it without inputting them directly?

That is...unfortunate

is there something I can change to get back to the behavior that lets me do it like I normally would?

right now I'm using biblatex+biber

Joseph Wright

@GPhys You need a second set of braces: BibTeX format requires them

Ji{\v{r}}{\'{i}} Lebl

GPhys

07:27

@JosephWright no go :s

I'm using biblatex with biber, loading the entry in filecontents

Joseph Wright

@GPhys Error message(s)

GPhys

@JosephWright ghostbin.com/paste/fm4aw

it compiles if I don't try to cite the entry in question or if I remove the special characters from the entry

I can provide more info if you need it

I'm not really sure what's happening

Joseph Wright

07:52

@GPhys Really could do with a minimal working example (just enough LaTeX and BibTeX code to show the issue)

GPhys

@JosephWright this is my entire before \begin{document} and the nocite making the error: ghostbin.com/paste/vfcww

the extra braces there right now was just me trying stuff

Joseph Wright

@GPhys \usepackage[T1]{fontenc}

GPhys

@JosephWright Does it matter where I put it in the preamble?

Joseph Wright

@GPhys Normally just after loading font packages

GPhys

@JosephWright yay ^^

that was driving me nuts

I didn't realize I needed to load that with lmodern :<

Joseph Wright

08:06

@GPhys You get OT1 unless you ask otherwise

Christian Hupfer

08:20

@PauloCereda What kind of consequences will follow now? Must there be another candidate who takes the presidency immediately?

GPhys

@JosephWright thank you very much

egreg

08:44

@ChristianHupfer \phantom ends up doing \box2, which wouldn't start horizontal mode. You might see a big difference in case two \phantomgraphics commands appear in a row.

Christian Hupfer

@egreg Yes, thanks -- I didn't have such case in mind. Of course, a \leavevmode is necessary (or recommended!) then

egreg

@ChristianHupfer The idea of a phantom key is nice: there's already one, namely draft, if only it didn't print the box and the file name.

@ChristianHupfer Perhaps Martin's adjustbox package has something for this, I don't know.

Christian Hupfer

@egreg I know about the draft key of course, but as you said: It does not produce white space (or the relevant page color background)

@egreg; Let's us make a real feature request for the phantom key to @DavidCarlisle ;-)

egreg

@ChristianHupfer There is the key in adjustbox!

\documentclass{article}

\usepackage[export]{adjustbox}
%\usepackage{graphicx}

\usepackage{multicol}
\usepackage{blindtext}

\begin{document}

\begin{multicols}{2}
\blindtext
\includegraphics[width=2cm,phantom]{../duck}%
\hrule
\columnbreak

\blindtext
\includegraphics[width=2cm]{../duck}%
\hrule
\end{multicols}

\end{document}

Christian Hupfer

@egreg Ah -- I never used adjustbox so far. Good to know

egreg

08:54

@ChristianHupfer You can add it to your answer.

Christian Hupfer

@egreg Added and referred to the chat

Alenanno

09:09

@JosephWright Could you merge/delete this? I asked the OP to ask on Meta about the closure of his previous question but he simply reasked the question which got migrated (it should have been closed). So now we have an "exact" duplicate.

Joseph Wright

@Alenanno I' confused: it's clearly a TeX question not a TeX-sx one, so I migrated the two from meta to main then closed one as a dupe

@Alenanno He just asked the same question but on meta, not one about the closure

Alenanno

@JosephWright Yeah exactly. But since he was disputing the closure, I suggested he asked on Meta so we had more "space" to explain our reasons than the comments. But...

Joseph Wright

@Alenanno Yes, but that shouldn't be a technical question, it should be 'My question X was closed as a dupe of Y but ...'

Alenanno

@JosephWright Saw your comment there now. Thanks for your help.

@JosephWright Well, I know. :P

Federico

I am writing a document where I would like to include a table-like "flowchart" (it is just a series of symbols on three columns with "time" flowing from row to row). And I have to connect some symbols with arrows.
I am thus resorting to Tikz, as I already know it and I think it might be the easiest way to achive my goal.
Is there a simple way to change *only this* caption from "figure f#" to "table t#"?
[should I ask this on the site? would you need a MWE for this question?]

Joseph Wright

09:17

@Federico Use the table environment not the figure one

Federico

@JosephWright :O :O I had no idea it could be done. Thanks!

Christian Hupfer

@Federico We don't answer TeX questions in TeX.SE chat. We focus on real important things like ducks, Cricket, Star Wars etc ;-)

Alenanno

@ChristianHupfer Seconded.

Christian Hupfer

@Alenanno A wonder, a wonder, Alenanno agrees with me! :D

Alenanno

@ChristianHupfer lol yes yes keep believing I'm your friend.... oh wait. Did I say that out loud?

:D

Christian Hupfer

09:30

@Alenanno I am not a fool :D

Alenanno

@ChristianHupfer Haven't seen you lately on chat... Well, I haven't been that much on either, but yeah, didn't see you much lol

@ChristianHupfer Never said you were dude. :P

Christian Hupfer

@Alenanno There's this stupid thing I have to do ... it's called regular job ;-)

Slereah

Hello folks

I was wondering

I recall an old book that had a rather egregious typo

it spelt diffeomorphism as $\text{dif}\Gamma\text{eomorphism}$

Does anyone know how such an error could even occur?

Perhaps due to some typesetting method used back then

Christian Hupfer

@Slereah looks like a ligature, then due to \Gamma?

skill patrol

in The h Bar, 13 mins ago, by Slereah

I am wondering of the process of writing a physics book before computers

Slereah

09:42

My best guess is that maybe that kind of typo was made on some old timey keyboard like the Space Cadet or similar

It could be possible to type a gamma instead of an f

Although a capital gamma seems odd

Christian Hupfer

difΓeomorphism?

Slereah

Yep

I don't recall which book, although hopefully I can look it up

I think I read that in around 2008 so it should be doable

Christian Hupfer

@Slereah Perhaps the book was printed even before there was electronic typesetting?

Slereah

That is another possibility, yes

But in this case, what kind of process would produce that?

I don't think it was still an era where they just picked lead blocks and arranged them to print books

could be, though, I don't know

Was probably mid 20th century

What were the usual processes to write a physics book back then

Christian Hupfer

Does \includegraphics allow % in path or filenames? I don't think so

@Slereah Manual typesetting or photochemical methods, I assume

Slereah

09:48

Guess it's still possible that they just grabbed the wrong character, then

Had the gamma around for math

Christian Hupfer

@Slereah I still admire the art of printing at that time, especially for non-trivial things like Math or tables, with this lead letters

Slereah

Could be worse I suppose

I've read non-professional papers of the era

Equations on typewriters and handwritten equations

The horror

Christian Hupfer

@Slereah Don't forget the awful typography on clay tablets and carved into stone -- how could the ancient scientists dare ;-)

Slereah

Well, for the most part, ancient people didn't have math notation

The oldest one was Diophantes and yes it was awful

Ulrike Fischer

@DavidCarlisle Should \pdftexbanner be defined in luatex85?

Alenanno

10:23

@ChristianHupfer You're right... It's stupid. :P

Christian Hupfer

10:47

@Alenanno If there's a something/.style={foo} set in a module file in TikZ,how can I add some options to this style without repeating the previous definition?

Joseph Wright

11:04

@egreg I know what you mean about nag, I was jut observing the issue from the expl3 end :-)

@egreg We've been asked in the past to remove \GetIdInfo as it's tied to SVN and really to the way the team work

Alenanno

@ChristianHupfer Do you mean like basic/.style={blabla}, advanced/.style={basic, more blabla}?

Christian Hupfer

@JosephWright: tex.stackexchange.com/questions/304938/… --- SPAM

Joseph Wright

@ChristianHupfer Seen and zapped already

Christian Hupfer

@Alenanno The first one, rather. I think, I found it: something/.append style={foo}

Alenanno

@ChristianHupfer Ah ok. Sorry, I didn't quite get your question. :D

Yeah append adds to the style.

Christian Hupfer

11:07

@Alenanno: Is the syntax advanced./style={basis, foo} something like inheritance, but defines a new style?

Alenanno

@ChristianHupfer Yes. So in the basic you can put the stuff common to everything like {draw, rectangle} etc... in the advanced, only the stuff for that particular node or group of nodes

so for example, you set basic as "draw, rectangle"

then you can do red/.style={basic, fill=red}

green/.style={basic, fill=green}

and so on

just an example. :D

so you don't repeat "draw, rectangle" in all styles.

Christian Hupfer

@Alenanno This is nice! Thanks. And is this inheritance expanded in place or will a change in basic later on also change advanced?

Alenanno

@ChristianHupfer If you change it, next compile it will change yes.

@ChristianHupfer See this: texample.net/tikz/examples/work-breakdown-structure

That's an example of this inheritance.

Keep in mind that you can overwrite options though. So this is very handy if you have 100 nodes that look that same but one of them is an exception. So for example you have "basic/.style={draw, rectangle}"... and you write \node[basic] {};

but then you can write: \node[basic, circle] {};

Christian Hupfer

@Alenanno No, during the current compilation. Say basic/./style={fill=red}, advanced./style={basic,line width=500pt} ... now some operations where advanced style is applied, then \tikzset{basic/.append style={fill=blue}} and other advanced style operations. Will the 2nd bunch of advanced style drawings have blue fill colour then?

Alenanno

@ChristianHupfer read above :D

You could do \node[basic, fill=blue] {};

Christian Hupfer

11:14

@Alenanno Ah, I didn't catch them -- I was focused on asking my question -- just to annoy you :-P

Alenanno

lol it's fine

:D

Christian Hupfer

@Alenanno Thanks, I learned something about TikZ

Alenanno

@ChristianHupfer My pleasure!

Christian Hupfer

@Alenanno By the way: You XeLaTeX 'friend' tries to trigger 'reopen' events by editing his questions ;-)

Alenanno

@ChristianHupfer >_> lol

Paulo Cereda

12:09

@egreg: tough times ahead for Brazilians.

egreg

@PauloCereda I guess so

@PauloCereda Is there a majority for the impeachment in the Senate?

yo'

@PauloCereda Some bad news? I can't find anything on the Czech servers :-(

Paulo Cereda

12:24

@egreg I think there is. :) Besides, I heard the Senate doesn't want to go against what the MP has decided.

@yo' Overall bad, I guess. :) Brazil is in an economic and political crisis at the moment.

yo'

@PauloCereda I'd like to say "welcome", but the situation there is probably worse here. Still, it hasn't been seen for 25 years that police act as the president and other politicians say on demonstrations. I'll keep you in my thoughts!

Paulo Cereda

@yo' <3

David Carlisle

12:51

@UlrikeFischer arguably not, in that it's sort of gone rather than renamed. although could of course alias it to the luatex one (@JosephWright ??)

Joseph Wright

@DavidCarlisle Borderline (\pdftexversion is somewhat similar though essential if luatex85 is to actually be useful!): I'd say we are right to skip it but am willing to reconsider if there is a use case

David Carlisle

@ChristianHupfer it allows a percent of the right type (\@percentchar for example)

Ulrike Fischer

13:11

@DavidCarlisle @JosephWright: pdfx uses it for an obscure test. I doubt that is really needed. But "pdftexbanner" is the wrong name anyway, so if something is done, one should perhaps create an "\enginebanner" command.

Joseph Wright

@UlrikeFischer Yes, but the latter is more in the direction of what something like expl3 is doing: luatex85 is only 'fix some stuff for the present'

@UlrikeFischer Daft test!

Ulrike Fischer

@Alenanno: Imho you were wrong to claim that tex.stackexchange.com/questions/304415/… is a duplicate. The image in the question shows missing glyphs (eg. the square at the end of the locative line), and this is not in the other question.

@JosephWright ;-)

@JosephWright Yes, I didn't mean that luatex85 should do, more the format.

Alenanno

13:36

@UlrikeFischer but the problem is solvable using the same solution from the other question. I could have just copy pasted my own answer, I had it ready and everything, but I didn't think it was appropriate to do.

I did see the squares by the way. In my opinion it's a matter of not loading the fonts properly, like the other question

@UlrikeFischer If the OP posts on Meta, I'll post the answer that I would have used in his question. I'm open to change my mind about this issue, but to me it seemed textbook duplicate.

Ulrike Fischer

@Alenanno No. When one glyph is missing (in this case the ൽ) while the other works fine it is not a question of not loading the font properly. And an answer that shows how to use IPA certainly doesn't help to debug a problem with a not functioning glyph in malaysian font. The question was badly phrased but it is not a duplicate.

Alenanno

13:56

Then vote to reopen

Paulo Cereda

dfgdfklgjwletkjkldjflfwçerjafhsdfoiwehdfoxbhvlsçaẽriogfdiekgfdjelgçsjkggjalsdjkl‌dfjsasw

yo'

@PauloCereda is that you, your cat or your duck? :)

Paulo Cereda

@yo' Fubá, actually. :)

yo'

@PauloCereda that's your cat, right? :)

Paulo Cereda

@yo' Yep. :) He's nearby. :)

yo'

14:03

@PauloCereda a task: determine his dimensions from the random-looking rubbish above :)

Paulo Cereda

@yo' LOL

naphaneal

14:36

@yo' @PauloCereda 2 feet, 70lbs

Joseph Wright

15:52

@UlrikeFischer You'll be pleased to here we have a plan for biblatex which keeps BibTeX as a fall-back backend but makes life for PLK and me easier in the longer term :-) (I just have to implement all of it!)

Abhishek Bhatia

19:19

hey!
I am new to latex, I have a question.
How can I combine these equations into one.

\begin{equation}
\begin{split}
\mf{f}^p_{ij}(t) = &\left\{
\begin{array}{rl}
\epsilon(1-\frac{r_{ij}(t)}{2r_0})^{3/2}\hat{r}_{ij}(t) &\text{if } r_{ij} < 0.5 \\
0 & \text{otherwise,}
\end{array} \right. \\
\mf{f}^p_i(t) =&\sum_j\mf{f}^p_{ij} \text{, where}
\end{split}
\label{eqn:phys}
\end{equation}

Should I put a summation around a bracket?

Davïd

19:41

And now for something completely different...

^^^^ I get the impression that some inhabitants of this chatroom would enjoy the current I Love Typography post: "The First Roman Fonts" (from which article that image is one of many).

More likely those who might be interested already follow it. Anyway, there it is, FWIW.

David Carlisle

20:20

@Slereah if it was set with Tex probably related to the fact that Gamma is character 0, so perhaps a bad virtual font messed up the ffi ligature and ended with a character zero.

Slereah

What?

Why character 0?

David Carlisle

@Slereah because the classic tex font encodings are interesting. try this plain tex:

a \char0


\bye

Slereah

$a \char0$

So much for mathjax

David Carlisle

@Slereah mathjax isn't running here:-)

Joseph Wright

@Slereah MathJax's not TeX, so meaningless here

Slereah

20:22

No but I have a mathjax script

Joseph Wright

@Slereah None of us do ;-)

@Slereah You've also handily discovered why we don't: results may be different from real TeX

David Carlisle

@Slereah Knuth didn't want to use the top half of the 8bit fonts (too modern) so all the cm fonts are restricted to 127 slots, for the roman font the latin alphabet takes up most of that but he wanted capital greek to be upright so he stuck it in the low "control" codes starting with Gamma in slot zero. it used to regularly crash early versions of acrobat where some internal string handling wasn't expecting 0 bytes...

Slereah

Probably!

Tho I'm mostly on Physics SE so it comes in handy

Oh right

Latex doesn't have \Alpha and \Beta

Joseph Wright

@Slereah Again due to 'space saving'

Slereah

a bit quaint nowadays

David Carlisle

20:27

@Slereah not enough room to have full latin and greek in 127 slots so for both upper and lower case the greek only have characters that look different (so no \omicron either)

Slereah

but then again early Latex ran on tincan computers

David Carlisle

@Slereah some of us were using it then so don't be too rude about tex's age:-)

Slereah

heheh

A good thing it appeared, tho

Looking at pre-Latex papers is kind of a pain

Joseph Wright

@Slereah Depends on the subject area: there was some good high-quality setting in some areas

Slereah

Yes, but

physics2000.com/PDF/HugginsPhDThesis1962.pdf

shudders

Joseph Wright

20:29

@Slereah That's a thesis: entirely different

David Carlisle

@Slereah my thesis was done on an ibm golfball typewriter:-) (almost last of an era, that was 85, probably all later ones used tex)

Slereah

Must be frustrating to find a typo!

David Carlisle

@Slereah if you don't look you don't find (gives the examiners something to do:-)

Joseph Wright

@DavidCarlisle Rather more was let go in the days of typewriters

Torbjørn T.

20:54

I don't like vote fishing, but if anyone has a couple of spare votes, these are off the unanswered list: tex.stackexchange.com/questions/302992/… and tex.stackexchange.com/questions/302799/…

Slereah

by the way

Since I have all you experts and all

Is there a trick to actually make graphics stay where it is supposed to be

Below the text above and above the text below

Joseph Wright

@Slereah Ah, the usual misunderstanding of floats :-)

Slereah

Every tag for it I use rarely works, really

Joseph Wright

@Slereah See the dupes on tex.stackexchange.com/questions/54581/position-of-a-figure

David Carlisle

@Slereah graphics are positioned the same way as letters, they never move by default.

David Carlisle

21:30

@egreg I'm still sick and you still only beat me by a second or two on a % at end of line question;-)

egreg

21:42

@DavidCarlisle Excuses!

@DavidCarlisle By the way, there's a reason why Knuth defined \bye…

David Carlisle

@egreg wipet's question?

egreg

@DavidCarlisle Yes

David Carlisle

@egreg yes, sort of interesting observation though. I can't say I've seen that example before.

egreg

@DavidCarlisle If you do \tracingpages, you see that topskip glue is inserted and the \medskip glue is discarded (because the current page contains no box). But then \end comes along and the recent contributions list is not empty.

@DavidCarlisle Curiously, it seems the vertical counterpart of the \parskip question. ;-)

@DavidCarlisle If I add \showlists to \output, I get this, when the output routine is invoked:

### internal vertical mode entered at line 13 (\output routine)
prevdepth ignored
### vertical mode entered at line 0
### recent contributions:
\glue 6.0 plus 2.0 minus 2.0
\hbox(0.0+0.0)x469.75499
\glue 0.0 plus 1.0fill
\penalty -1073741824
prevdepth 1.94444, prevgraf 1 line

Kurt

22:43

Got a new palindrom:

egreg

22:54

@Kurt Too many! ;-)

Kurt

23:23

@egreg :-) with the ending it is easier. Your palindrome of only two, well I will try it (but first with 5 numbers, not 6) ;-)

David Carlisle

@Kurt I think we will have to disqualify you for not having the comma in the centre

Kurt

@DavidCarlisle LOL

egreg

By the way, Ulrike is very near to be six digit!

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