TeX, LaTeX and Friends

Alan Munn

00:00

@DavidCarlisle Yes, thanks. It was purely for testing set of a top level macros.

Paulo Cereda

I remotely sense that this is not remotely sensible for this site. — percusse yesterday

Sir strikes again... @percusse ^^

Will Robertson

05:21

@DavidCarlisle @JosephWright — okay, in the TU repo on Github I now have something a little more complete for handling unicode maths in latex2e (see directory "umath2e/"). XeTeX only for now because we need TECkit mappings. The next step would be to develop a big structured table containing all of the umath definitions we need to define. (And potentially add greek to the font mappings, just because we can.)

JP-Ellis

07:05

I don't know of I can ask this here, but I'm quite stuck :/

I am trying to implement [this answer](http://tex.stackexchange.com/a/290763/26980) for my package and I am getting into more issues relating to how graph drawing keys are handled. I would ask this on TeX.SE, but given how specific this question is I'm not sure whether it is appropriate.

I would be really grateful if someone could have a look at [the code](https://github.com/JP-Ellis/tikz-feynman/tree/fix-search-paths) and give me a hand or suggestions so I can resolve [this bug](https://github.com/JP-Ellis/tikz-feynman/issues/9).

Octopus

07:18

@JP-Ellis I can't help you, but i think it's a beatifull package, keep it up!

yo'

07:55

@Johannes_B One thing to keep you happy (and occupied):

Johannes_B

08:10

@yo' Gret service. Using templates, you can just start writing.

I still think the template thing is scratched.

Romain Picot

@egreg thank for the question edit. My cofee is not strong enough in the morning :-/

egreg

@RomainPicot You're welcome!

Will Robertson

08:27

@egreg — did I already ask you if you've ever come across sans serif Greek in mathematics? \mathsf{\Gamma} works in LaTeX2e, but surprisingly (?) few people seem to have used these symbols in, well, anything :)

yo'

@WillRobertson where is my DO NOT DO THAT sign when I need it? :D

anyway, gotta go now. see you all later

Paulo Cereda

09:05

[paulo@cambridge ~] $ which -a mktexlsr
/opt/texbin/mktexlsr
/usr/bin/mktexlsr
[paulo@cambridge ~] $ sudo which -a mktexlsr
/bin/mktexlsr
/usr/bin/mktexlsr

@egreg: ^^ :)

egreg

@WillRobertson Apart from beamer, I've seen journals that require tables to be typeset in sans serif; but I'm pretty sure some French geometry book uses all sorts of alphabets, including sans serif Greek. Tensors are quite often typeset sans serif.

Will Robertson

@egreg Tensors definitely bold sans serif; we're looking for evidence of non-bold sans serif greek to add to Unicode. If anything comes to mind, let us know :)

@egreg Any authors come to mind in French geometry?

David Carlisle

How are you supposed to debug code that you wrote in a language you know nothing about?

egreg

@WillRobertson Not really geometry, but I'd check the books by Dieudonné

Will Robertson

@egreg thank you!

Nasser

10:14

I need to post a question about tex4ht, which requires an SVG image to show the problem. Does TexLive come with some that one can use, so that I do not have to put a link to one myself and have someone download it to try the code with?

Will Robertson

10:29

@egreg I thought I was in luck with the one book of his on archive.org, but I now think this symbol is bold alpha, not sans alpha :)

A few pages later:

egreg

10:52

@WillRobertson It's hard deciding for serif or sans serif

David Carlisle

@Nasser vvv

$ grep '\.svg' `kpsewhich -all  ls-R`
/usr/local/texlive/2015/texmf-dist/ls-R:beamersubframe-append.svg
/usr/local/texlive/2015/texmf-dist/ls-R:beamersubframe-embed.svg
/usr/local/texlive/2015/texmf-dist/ls-R:img-form1.svg
/usr/local/texlive/2015/texmf-dist/ls-R:img-form2.svg
/usr/local/texlive/2015/texmf-dist/ls-R:img-form2a.svg
/usr/local/texlive/2015/texmf-dist/ls-R:img-title.svg
/usr/local/texlive/2015/texmf-dist/ls-R:address_europass_icon.svg
/usr/local/texlive/2015/texmf-dist/ls-R:europasslogo2013.svg

@Nasser Or you can always just put a small svg inline in the tex file with filecontents

Will Robertson

11:13

@egreg I guess if it's tentative it's still a valid submission

David Carlisle

12:51

@WillRobertson there's this which uses \mathsf{\Gamma} but the page itself is sans serif so arguably it's just trying to typeset everything in that style rather than using a semantically different alphabet (although that's quite possibly often the case:-) geogebra.org/wiki/es/Comando_N%C3%BAmeroCombinatorio

Will Robertson

@DavidCarlisle Hmm, yeah, hard to argue in those cases :)

@DavidCarlisle I've seen a couple of similar ones where the title of the paper was in sans serif and the maths has been wrapped in \mathsf. Not really correct, let alone a good argument for us :)

David Carlisle

@WillRobertson although I'm not sure semantic correctness is really a fair test at this level. The question is is it used, not does it conform to some guidelines about semantically pure markup. Do you have to prove that U+1F4A9 really is what it says it is before using it?

Will Robertson

@DavidCarlisle True true.

yo'

14:37

@Nasser there's 50 of them in my TL:

[tohecz@toheshiba ~]$ locate *.svg | grep texlive
/usr/local/texlive/2010/texmf-dist/tex/latex/fancytooltips/fancytipmark.svg
/usr/local/texlive/2011/texmf-dist/tex/latex/fancytooltips/fancytipmark.svg
/usr/local/texlive/2012/texmf-dist/tex/latex/fancytooltips/fancytipmark.svg
/usr/local/texlive/2013/texmf-dist/doc_remove/latex/beamersubframe/beamersubframe-append.svg
/usr/local/texlive/2013/texmf-dist/doc_remove/latex/beamersubframe/beamersubframe-embed.svg
/usr/local/texlive/2013/texmf-dist/doc_remove/latex/eskdx/manual/img-form1.svg

@Nasser Also, isn't SVG a text file? You could post the code of one if it's not too long.

Alenanno

14:51

Guys, how do you center a \shapepar? Like vertically and horizontally in a A4 page

Maybe I should ask this as a question, because it isn't there.

yo'

@Alenanno centering on the page can be done by a dirty trick like \newpage\vbox{}\vfill <YOUR STUFF HERE> \vfill\vbox{}\newpage

Alenanno

@yo' The manual says that my shapepar should be automatically centered... weird.

@yo' That centers vertically, but not horizontally. Do I need to \hfill too?

yo'

@Alenanno \centering or \begin{center} ?

Alenanno

@yo' I tried that earlier but it didn't work. Let me retry

yo'

@Alenanno in that case I think a MWE is required

Alenanno

14:59

@yo' You sound just like everyone else! \dramatic tone

Christian Hupfer

@DavidCarlisle You're welcome

yo'

@Alenanno :)

Christian Hupfer

15:17

Off-topic, I think:

0

Q: Setup: Versions of a draft and git

I'm using git to store my project files including the tex files. Now I'm thinking about starting to write up a first draft. What's a good project structure for combining latex and the git technology? For example, if I will have different versions of the draft (say, the first version sent out fo...

git

science.sciencemag.org/content/351/6272/435.full

My former Diploma Thesis supervisor detected the early Babylonians 'calculus' ;-)

David Carlisle

15:55

@Alenanno same way you'd center anything else, stick it in a parbox and centre that

@yo' not really:-)

@PauloCereda when you've finished alternating between wanting to be German or English, you could try being Danish:-)

facebook.com/dr3dk/videos/981301648583243/?pnref=story

percusse

Not off topic

1

Q: Setup: Versions of a draft and git

I'm using git to store my project files including the tex files. Now I'm thinking about starting to write up a first draft. What's a good project structure for combining latex and the git technology? For example, if I will have different versions of the draft (say, the first version sent out fo...

git

Please stop closing questions in an hour. How many times do we have to mention this damn detail?

Sean Allred

@percusse I voted to "put on hold" as 'primarily opinion-based' (or 'too broad'). I'm in the middle of writing an explanation comment.

David Carlisle

@percusse voted. It's a bit vague but not off topic enough to be closed in minutes

@SeanAllred ^^

Sean Allred

@DavidCarlisle I must admit I thought there had to be majority consensus for the question to actually be closed :)

percusse

@SeanAllred And why would it be closed in minutes? See my comment under it. Both have 20+ voted answers

Sean Allred

16:04

@percusse I agree the question was closed too quickly for my comfort. Again, I didn't think the question would be closed with my vote :/

David Carlisle

@SeanAllred there is no way of measuring majority, you can only vote to close and once there are 5 votes it closes, only then can anyone who doesn't want it to close can vote to re-open

percusse

@SeanAllred Do you have to vote?

Sean Allred

Don't turn this into a witch-burning :(

percusse

I'm not turning into anything. I'm tired off chasing which question is closed under two seconds. Why can't we just skip this reviewing bullshit althogether instead?

David Carlisle

@SeanAllred just describing the procedure:-)

Sean Allred

16:07

@DavidCarlisle I'm pretty sure this is how it worked on SO for a time -- I remember seeing 7 votes on a question once. It might be a trick of my memory, though. And there is totally a way to measure majority consensus :-)

@DavidCarlisle I gotcha :)

percusse

I'm here for 5 years and don't have as many review thingies as those trigger happy people under 8 months

Sean Allred

@percusse Community moderation is important (and an important part of the SE model), but it should surely be moderated in itself. If you feel there's too much trigger-happiness going on, perhaps we should raise the rep threshold? That's the only 'solution' I can think of.

percusse

Or be normal adults and stop the urge of clicking buttons? How many more meta questions do we need to understand that there is something wrong?

There are less than 10 individuals causing this nonsense

And we the friendly people gave them those clicking priviledges by upvoting them.

Now it's their turn to behave a bit and mingle.

Friendly doesn't mean stupid

Sean Allred

@percusse As the site becomes more populous, you're going to get more people who are just trigger-happy. In this case though, I'll note that three of the close-voters (including myself) are folks who are very familiar with the site and its ideals -- I doubt we'd be under the 'robo-reviewer' category.

percusse

I'm asking again do you have to vote?

Sean Allred

16:14

In my case, I didn't even go to the review tab. I saw the question on the front page, read it, and wanted to note that the question wasn't fit to be answered.

@percusse Yes.

percusse

Especially you three should have known better under an hour

If you do such then why do we even bother?

Sean Allred

@percusse It's important to note that I don't close-vote to send a message to the asker -- that's what comments are for. I close-vote to protect the quality of our answers. The answer on there right now is 'alright', but it doesn't really provide a good answer because there isn't a good question (yet).

percusse

The question is pretty understandable. And I've put links in the comments. It doesn't make sense only to you under the false premise.

Quality is not even an argument. Who are we to judge the quality?

It's a community driven Q/A. While copying every rule many tend to forget the community part.

Nobody assigned us to implement a quality threshold

Sean Allred

I think we have a disagreement on what it means to be community-moderated...

percusse

I don't know how many times I had this argument here. WE DO NOT OWN THIS PLACE!

For me the question makes perfect sense. But I can't reopen it because you closed it

David Carlisle

16:19

@SeanAllred I don't see how you can measure consensus with a voting procedure where you can only vote one way. (It's not your fault that the site mechanics are heavily stacked towards closing, it is the way it is but it certainly can't be described as consensus)

percusse

So you tell me how well it is moderated

I'm really pissed off everytime residents of this room act like they are hearing these arguments for the first time...

Sean Allred

@percusse When the question is edited and made more answerable, I'll be happy to add my vote to the re-open bin. I don't think the question is unclear -- I think it's perfectly clear what OP wants, but it's not clear what a correct answer would look like.

@percusse Trust me, I'm not.

David Carlisle

@percusse we can tell:-)

percusse

@SeanAllred Then why do you still need to be pleased to reopen it?

David Carlisle

@WillRobertson reprimand from @egreg: tex.stackexchange.com/questions/290937/…

Sean Allred

16:25

@percusse I need to have some hope that it can be answered well. Any hope at all will do.

percusse

Did you look at the links in my comment? They are all pretty well

Why do you need hope at all? It's not even your question? You are not even interested in the question

Sean Allred

@percusse I did, and their questions are more specific.

percusse

Oh please entertain me what details are missing?

Sean Allred

@percusse Who says I'm not interested? I understand your point there, though.

@percusse Chill, dude.

percusse

Dude yourself.

Sean Allred

16:29

The present question is extremely open-ended. It's asking for a project structure that's based on git. As I noted in the comments, git itself is an extremely open-ended VCS, so this doesn't add any specificity whatsoever in my opinion (and opinions do matter in a voting system -- that's the whole point). To address the questions you linked:

percusse

It is not open ended if it is open I can answer it pretty quickly or rather could. But because your urges are insatiable. We have to prove that it's a worth question of your expectations.

Sean Allred

The first gives an example desired workflow. In TeX.SX lingo, this constitutes an MWE. It's clear exactly what OP wants and answers can be judged on how well they adhere to (or improve upon) this given workflow.

percusse

Voting system is stupid and if you think it is a good argument to invoke voting system

you clearly don't understand why this place is considered to be peaceful

MWEs are sufficient not necessary

the workflow is defined by us not some weirdo in some office somewhere

Sean Allred

The second question, frankly, is too open-ended in my opinion.

Not all highly-voted questions are good.

percusse

votes say otherwise

Sean Allred

16:32

@percusse It's certainly not because they're witnessing barrages like this in the chatroom.

percusse

and where is this barrage?

to be precise?

Sean Allred

@percusse, I'm always happy to discuss things like this, but I don't want to argue over the internet.

percusse

I'm not arguing. You ask for counter argument here are mine.

Where is the argument?

Sean Allred

@percusse Case in point (with respect to the venerable @DavidCarlisle) vvv

55

A: Draw an aircraft with Tikz

It was suggested in chat http://chat.stackexchange.com/transcript/message/9482087#9482087 That picture mode would be the ideal tool for the job here: \documentclass{article} \begin{document} \begin{picture}(200,100) \put(30,40){\line(1,0){150}} \put(30,40){\line(0,1){60}} \put(30,100){\line(...

percusse

You simply say I don't like it

And what is wrong with it?

Sean Allred

16:34

@percusse The question has 21 upvotes.

It's clearly not a fit question for the site.

percusse

And 21 votes say otherwise

It's you who praised voting system so far

Who are you to judge the mighty voters

And it fits the site so far pretty good. Can you explain why it is not a fit?

Sean Allred

@percusse we can continue this conversation tonight if you're still awake (12AM UTC). I've got a lot of work to do and I'd rather not get yelled at :)

percusse

Then reopen the question. Otherwise I win :P

Sean Allred

I've had it bookmarked. When I think it's ready for re-opening, I'll add my vote. Otherwise, there are plenty of others with those privileges.

percusse

Then I win

egreg

16:42

@DavidCarlisle And you're even giving almost correct answers about expl3

David Carlisle

@egreg almost?

percusse

@SeanAllred Next time until you have arguments, please don't vote.

egreg

@DavidCarlisle The OP wants \tl_set:Nx to begin with.

David Carlisle

@egreg perhaps but main point was that there was no error in his code, so perhaps he just expected a space but forgot to reset the catcodes or ...

Sean Allred

@percusse I gave my arguments. You don't have to agree with them. I'll continue to vote as I see fit and with consideration for any user involved.

percusse

16:44

@SeanAllred So far you just said I don't like it. I can humbly mention that I also know what an argument looks like

@SeanAllred Remember to comply with the community-moderation. Don't be an individual.

@SeanAllred See I can be one of those detail-splitting arguers if I wish. It's not cool. Don't do it

@SeanAllred Common sense is pretty common

yo'

17:28

@percusse I do not really see your point here. Maybe off-topic is not the right thing to say, but we all know how stupid the close reasons are, don't we? I fail to see the connection of the structure to git (it's not any different from the structure of one that does not have any version structure).

On the other hand, I fail to see how LaTeX projects are very specific w.r.t. git. All git projects have some similar issues, but these are related to git, not to LaTeX. I'm not going to reconsider my original close vote and vote to re-open; I stand behind my opinion.

barbara beeton

there was discussion here a while ago regarding reformatting a tugboat ad for Community Promotion Ads - 2016, but nothing ever emerged. does anyone have a good idea for reshaping the obviously portrait orientation of the publication cover to the new closer-to-landscape format? i'd really like to see tugboat as one of the ads, but i'm unable to do it myself, and, admittedly, i'm biased.

yo'

17:44

@barbarabeeton Something like this (a "first iteration"):

Maybe with a "The Journal of the International TeX Users Group" below

barbara beeton

@yo' -- good start. the actual "subtitle" is "The Communications of the \TeX\ Users Group". (oops! uppercase ...) there is a tug ad in the collection; it kind of suffers from the same portrait/landscape infelicity.

percusse

18:29

@yo' Whatever. Just don't try to sell your preference as a community decision.

It's a clear question. And I have provided every link possible. Being applicable to other projects doesn't mean it's generic.

yo'

@percusse I won't fight against the reopen.

@barbarabeeton ok, I take it as that I shall look into it later

percusse

I really don't care. This seemingly rigorous arguments are really piss me off and I find them childish. I am at the other side of the table on SO and sometimes I really need an answer but people argue as you argue while I'm desperately trying to make things work and it sucks donkey balls.

The question is clear to every other person except the residents. I'm not gonna keep arguing the obvious

This room needs some reality check about where they stand

Alan Munn

@percusse Hey! Don't impugn the room. We're not all of the same mind here, as you well know.

percusse

If you close a question less than an hour it is your fault not the OP. That's done deal by the community I helped to create. Now it's a different story

@AlanMunn I mean it. This elite bunch with exceptions but who cares really piss me off by insulting users on a subject so obscure that they are the definition of nerd

StrongBad

@percusse I don't play much here, so should probably be ignored, but why not edit the question to make it clearer and get it reopened?

Alan Munn

18:36

@percusse I guess my point was that I think the majority of folk who are active in the room are not into this behaviour.

percusse

Because it is clear.

barbara beeton

@yo' -- thank you!

percusse

It is a crystal clear question. You can look at it and arrive to a single conclusion. That's the definition of a clear question

Somebody needs to setup a structure and doesn't know how. And it happens to be a TeX project

How is this damn question not relevant? We have packages on CTAN specifically for this purpose

Alan Munn

@percusse <sarcasm> But heaven forbid that there might be more than one valid answer</sarcasm>

percusse

@AlanMunn I am not angry in the sense that you need XML to parse the jokes :)

StrongBad

18:39

@percusse we have a nearly identical question at AC.SE: academia.stackexchange.com/questions/5327/… and I see no issue with it there, but it is not clear it is a good fit at TeX.SE

Alan Munn

@percusse :)

percusse

I'm just feeling like all our past efforts are stolen by a limited amount of people to make this place dull and rigor-freak

@StrongBad Please don't compare this to AC. I'm not going to accept any of your stuff as comparable.

or ELL or MSE or any other wonderful places that have different flavor

Alan Munn

@percusse I guess I'm not convinced we're quite at that point, but I do worry about it too.

StrongBad

@percusse I am not sure what that means. I am saying that I would have voted to close it here, but maybe I am just one of the problem users you are describing ...

Johannes_B

@StrongBad I remember a question that was absolutely unclear to me. You could have tortured me, i wouldn't have had been able to even guess what the question was about. I was not the only one. one the other hand, the question was absolutely clear to other members and they answered. Just when i saw the answer, i knew what the question was about, i was able to understand what was asked. Different people see questions in different ways, have different outlooks.

People are different, even within the same community.

percusse

18:45

@StrongBad I don't know why would someone close questions that they don't give a fuck. That's pretty much the message that people are pretending that they don't understand.

Alan Munn

@Johannes_B Yes, this is especially true of questions that involve specialized packages. There are often linguistics package questions that are completely clear and easy for me to answer even without a MWE but people clamor for them anyway on "principle".

StrongBad

@percusse I guess I use my close votes (and mod powers on the sites I am a mod) on questions I don't "care" about because I care about the community as a whole.

percusse

@StrongBad That's exactly the attitude that I'm sick and tired. You are hiding your own daily kick under the community service cover. You are there to moderate when you are presented with a conflict. Not to shape. We here are pretty lucky in that sense.

Alan Munn

@StrongBad The point that @percusse is making (which I completely agree with) is twofold. First, closing questions (or using the euphemism du jour "putting them on hold") is rarely necessary here, and people should just leave things be rather than try to be the site's "purity enforcers".

StrongBad

@Johannes_B if a question is not clear to a number of "experts" familiar with the site, to me that is an indication that the question needs to be improved. You can sometimes get there with comments, but close votes are often helpful.

Alan Munn

18:50

@StrongBad No. Lowest common denominator can't possibly be a way to run a site like this.

percusse

@AlanMunn Knowing a language does really matter. :P

Johannes_B

@AlanMunn SE is a place where rep matters, even though it is a meaningless number. Maybe you want to answer the question (in order to get rep or to help the user), but the only way you can answer is to get more information. LC is a lonely place, there aren't much helpers and often i simply have to ask for information just to understand. I can't rely on some other helper to step in and maybe understand the question two days later. So i just ask.

Alan Munn

@percusse Bien sur.

Johannes_B

I would be very happy if some guys from here would check LC once or twice a week and answer a question that i can't because of limited knowledge or whatever. No worries, no rep hunt there, just a simple forum.

barbara beeton

@percusse -- i wouldn't have voted to close the question, but i did observe that it's opinion based. i understood it, but know from experience with organizing trees for complex publications (though not for git) that i could easily come up with three different opinions, maybe more. so the circumstances and uses need to be more fully specified. and that's what i think the comments are saying, though they don't explicitly ask for more information.

StrongBad

18:51

@AlanMunn I would hardly call the people who votes to close the question the "lowest common denominator" of TeX.SE

percusse

@StrongBad I am very close to call so. Because I have been observing the review queue ever so often.

Alan Munn

@StrongBad What? This is not about the people, but about the idea that if only an expert can understand a question, then the question needs to be improved.

percusse

Our meta is full complaints about this behavior

Alan Munn

@Johannes_B I'm not sure I see the point, Johannes. If you want more information, you leave a comment, but you don't vote to close, (or shouldn't).

percusse

@barbarabeeton You know that we have to ask for more clarity about every tex-core or L3 question if that was the case right?

Johannes_B

18:54

@AlanMunn That was more about the formerly discussed ask for an MWE

@AlanMunn And also a please, can somebody help out on LC?

Alan Munn

@barbarabeeton But then if we're not careful all "best practices" type questions should be closed, and this I find crazy.

percusse

If it is coming from hi-rep user nobody closes it. Because we are in the "gang"! But if it is a random user oh justice almighty how dare them? CLOSE IT

I find this extremely extremely annoying!!

Johannes_B

@percusse @yo' Do we have some statistics from the SEDE about closing questions? Would find that interesting.

Alan Munn

@Johannes_B Sorry, I won't. One of the reasons I'm so active in TeX.se is because it is nicely asynchronous. LC isn't like that since it requires (or expects) interaction between people.

barbara beeton

@percusse -- if this site is to be a resource for people in the future, then questions should be as clear as possible. and that often does mean "add more information". as for questions where i know little or nothing about the subject, i read and ignore. for a question where i think i'm likely to know a reasonable answer (if enough specificity is provided), i comment before trying to answer.

percusse

18:57

@barbarabeeton and I have no objections to that whatsoever.

Johannes_B

@AlanMunn confused, someone asking a question on TeX.SX is a person, and on LC as well. Support always is interacting with people. Right?

StrongBad

@Johannes_B what type of stats? How many closed or how quickly closed????

Alan Munn

@Johannes_B Yes and no. Of course there are people behind, but TeX.SX doesn't set up as much of an expectation of a dialogue between OP and answerer. Of course the commenting system allows that to a limited extent, but it's not the way the site is designed to operate, and for me that is a good thing.

Johannes_B

@StrongBad Both :-)

Alan Munn

@Johannes_B Not because I'm antisocial, but because I have limited time.

percusse

19:00

@Johannes_B Forums are dead. I feel really bad about it but they are.

Johannes_B

@percusse LC is trying to survice, and its german sister forum does quite well. So, maybe in zombie mode for LC, but not dead yet :-)

StrongBad

@Johannes_B data.stackexchange.com/meta.tex/query/104025/…

percusse

@Johannes_B I know, I've tried a few times over the years but an english forum is unfortunately needs to keep up with here. And that's tough

Johannes_B

@AlanMunn Same here. Limited time. I bet we all are limited on that measure. My case being: You have to have soe knowledge to post a clear answer. Many starters lack this, and you gotta slowly collect the pieces.

Alan Munn

@Johannes_B And one huge advantage of TeX.sx is that you can easily point people to duplicates. As someone who contributed quite a bit to TeX mailing lists, and a little bit to c.t.t., you can see the difference, because on those forums, there is very limited institutional memory, so you end up answering the same thing over and over again.

@Johannes_B Sure, and I've decided my time is better spent here I guess. And I don't have time for both.

Johannes_B

19:04

@AlanMunn But honestly, if you know the answer and it needs two minutes to scribble it up, where is the problem? And if the OP has a related follow-up well, just answer it. Here, a question is marked as a dupe, and sometimes a user finds himself within the situation of not knowing should i ping someone in the comments or post another question?

Alan Munn

@Johannes_B But I'm not going to read the questions in the first place, so the issue never arises.

Johannes_B

@AlanMunn 10 minutes twice a week. Would be enough. There are questions i see and think Ah, @xxx could answer that. But xxx is not active on LC.

Alan Munn

@Johannes_B Oh well sorry, but you won't actually change my mind on this. :)

Johannes_B

@AlanMunn No problem, maybe someone else will join. :-)

Alan Munn

@Johannes_B Also, my partner in "freedom is just around the corner for you" @percusse isn't there. ;)

Johannes_B

19:09

@AlanMunn Sad thing, we get the occasional TikZ question, and i simply can't answer them. So a user is left alone or @Stefan finds a minute to answer.

Ulrike Fischer

@percusse I don't cast close votes very often and didn't here either. And I agree with you that closing votes are coming sometimes to fast. But I also see questions which are so bad that I would love to see them closed which get long and useful answers instead. So I think your statistics are biased: you are only seeing the red lights and not the green. Go throught the list of unanswered (open) questions and count how many of them can be given a sensible answer ...

percusse

@UlrikeFischer Yes. Perfect. Thank you for this. My question is do we need to answer all of them or are we guilty about a bit of OCD ?

Johannes_B

@percusse Sorry, not familiar with OCD, can you expand?

percusse

@UlrikeFischer As an example, if I see a MikTeX question and even if I don't find it nice, I would leave it to you first. I simply don't touch it no matter how shitty it is. Because I don't know anything about it.

StrongBad

Obsessive–compulsive disorder

Obsessive–compulsive disorder (OCD) is a mental disorder where people feel the need to check things repeatedly, perform certain routines repeatedly, or have certain thoughts repeatedly. People are unable to control either the thoughts or the activities. Common activities include hand washing, counting of things, and checking to see if a door is locked. Some may have difficulty throwing things out. These activities occur to such a degree that the person's daily life is negatively affected. Often they take up more than an hour a day. Most adults realize that the behaviors do not make sense. T...

Johannes_B

19:12

@StrongBad thanks :-)

StrongBad

@Johannes_B there is a joke that goes something like I don't have OCD I have CDO which is a lot like OCD but with the letters in the correct order.

percusse

4

Paulo Cereda

19:34

@percusse Story of my life. :)

I like this one too. :)

percusse

@PauloCereda eheheah

Paulo Cereda

@egreg: you are the resident Lucida expert and gave me some pointers towards a nice setup. Should I use lucimatx instead of lucidabr then?

Speaking of which, where should I find lucimatx?

yo'

^^ Any opinions before I post it?

Alan Munn

@yo' Looks nice.

yo'

@AlanMunn Ok, thanks. I think I'll do some final changes and publish it

Paulo Cereda

19:47

@yo' I like it!

yo'

@PauloCereda now I need to squeeze the file size. What's the limit finally?

Paulo Cereda

@yo' 60KB. Want me to reduce it for you?

barbara beeton

@yo' -- i like it. thanks! from the announcement: "Absolute limit on file size of 40 KB"

yo'

@barbarabeeton it's incorrect as I found just now, the limit is 150kB

26

A: Community ads filesize "cannot exceed 40KB": Difficult with new bigger ads + High DPI (retina)

We're going to bump the filesize limit back up to 150KB. Why did we change it in the first place? Back in August last year, I was informed that paid ads on the sites in the network had a limit of only 40KB. That, and also that I forgot to include a bit about 1px borders around white images on......

I'm fine, I'll be 105kB

Paulo Cereda

@yo' Still, I can reduce it. :)

yo'

19:51

@PauloCereda :)

barbara beeton

@yo' -- oh ... gee, they should update the numbers in the announcement. (maybe someone should do that. i'm not sure i want to ... link to the question you cite would be a good thing.)

yo'

0

A: Community Promotion Ads - 2016

@barbarabeeton I edited.

barbara beeton

@PauloCereda -- but too bad you couldn't insert it so that the edges of the picture are square to the lines of type on this web page.

Paulo Cereda

@barbarabeeton :)

barbara beeton

@yo' -- thank you, dr. tom.

2

Paulo Cereda

20:02

@barbarabeeton This is so cute! :)

barbara beeton

@PauloCereda -- when you finish your thesis and defend it successfully you can expect the same treatment. (nag, nag.)

Paulo Cereda

@barbarabeeton oh no! :)

@DavidCarlisle: ^^

David Carlisle

Jan 12 at 12:15, by David Carlisle

@PauloCereda finished your thesis?

@JosephWright ah you're here:-)

Joseph Wright

@DavidCarlisle Yes

David Carlisle

@JosephWright I wondered about trying to push that " update into the data loader but decided that would confuse the issue and I'd leave it until you're around, also I don't know if you want to sanity check my luatexbase lua or if I should just check that in. I suppose it can't hurt to check it in to github anyway .

Joseph Wright

20:15

@DavidCarlisle ?

@DavidCarlisle I'll probably work a bit more on font loading this evening

yo'

@barbarabeeton don't do this to me or I become an indian :)

David Carlisle

@JosephWright there is a comment on github from someone pointing out 1000 should be "1000 (which is right but I didn't reply)

barbara beeton

@yo' -- subcontinent or native american? (i apologize if i've done something unforgivable. it wasn't meant that way.)

yo'

@barbarabeeton native American ... my face has just reddened a bit :-)

David Carlisle

@JosephWright I just sent you a font loading email, I should have sent it to @egreg he'd appreciate polytonic Greek comic sans.

barbara beeton

20:20

@yo' -- then you'll have to let your hair grow long and wear it in braids. i can let you borrow one of the feathers from my hat. (or i can probably find a new one where those came from. we'll be visiting there in april.)

yo'

@barbarabeeton :)

Joseph Wright

@DavidCarlisle :-)

@DavidCarlisle Ah. I'm not actually sure the split really makes sense: I'm minded just to set all of them the same

David Carlisle

@JosephWright yes I don't think really "1000 is any more justifiable than 1000 other than that's what it was before. we should look to see if we can get the mathclass parsing back for tl2016 I think, even though the 8bit range will need to be for OMx encoding that can possiibly be done in an ltfinal fixup after the main loader...

Joseph Wright

@DavidCarlisle Sure, one for the weekend (I've been out all day today)

egreg

20:41

@DavidCarlisle I'm waiting for the Devanagari version

Joseph Wright

@DavidCarlisle Code from @topskip loading without error now, but not actually working: doubtless my fault

Stefan Kottwitz

21:04

@Johannes_B Yes, LC will survive even if the drive is much slower than here. Just in case if money would dictate to close a commercial site such as TeX.SE, a true community forum can continue it, even if it means to turn into Q&A format building on the data dump. Thankfully the data dump ensures a future of the work here in any case.

Johannes_B

@StefanKottwitz LC will survive :-)

Stefan Kottwitz

@Johannes_B Until then, I enjoy the talk in the LC forum too :-)

Johannes_B

@StefanKottwitz by the way, i am no FB friends with Vel.

Stefan Kottwitz

@Johannes_B :-)

@Johannes_B Another by the way, do you know this one? web.archive.org/web/20061002163756/http://www.cqf.info/forum/…

Johannes_B

@StefanKottwitz don't know if this is a good thing :-)

@StefanKottwitz last post 2006?

Stefan Kottwitz

21:11

@Johannes_B first post in 2003

Johannes_B

@StefanKottwitz what about it?

Stefan Kottwitz

@Johannes_B It was still alive in 2008 then suddenly it closed, I had 500 or so posts in the forum and was sad about it

Johannes_B

@StefanKottwitz Merge?

Stefan Kottwitz

@Johannes_B A domain grabber reserved the domain then, and the robots.txt file even blocked archive.org so even the Archive wasn't allowed to show original content

Johannes_B

@StefanKottwitz :-(

Stefan Kottwitz

21:16

@Johannes_B I paid the domain holder 800 bucks just to get that domain to remove the robots.txt to see what's left on archive.org to maybe restore it in kind of a shape

David Carlisle

Can we say this is a duplicate

1

Q: Drawing a plane inside a sphere in TikZ

I have the following code, which is basically a modified version of the sphere example from TeXample.net. \documentclass[crop,tikz]{standalone} \usepackage{pgfplots} \usetikzlibrary{calc,fadings} \pgfplotsset{compat=1.12} \newcommand\pgfmathsinandcos[3]{% \pgfmathsetmacro#1{sin(#3)}% \pgfm...

tikz-pgf 3d

of this?

55

A: Draw an aircraft with Tikz

It was suggested in chat http://chat.stackexchange.com/transcript/message/9482087#9482087 That picture mode would be the ideal tool for the job here: \documentclass{article} \begin{document} \begin{picture}(200,100) \put(30,40){\line(1,0){150}} \put(30,40){\line(0,1){60}} \put(30,100){\line(...

Stefan Kottwitz

@Johannes_B So at some time, it may be rebuilt / merged based on the database backup or the archive content, we'll see - I just mentioned it because I think all the history deserves to survive, even that old forum. @GonzaloMedina was very active there.

Joseph Wright

21:39

@topskip So I got the following to 'work'

\directlua{
  local fontfile = "lmroman10-regular.otf"
  local fontsize = 10
  local fontname = "FOO"
  local fontprop = { }

  local texmfroot = string.gsub(kpse.find_file("latex.ltx"),
    "tex/latex/base/latex.ltx", "fonts")

  kpse.filelist = { }

  local os_getenv = os.getenv
  function os.getenv(var)
    if var == "SP_FONT_PATH" then return texmfroot end
    return os_getenv(var)
  end

  require("dirtree.lua")

  local fontloader = require("fontloader.lua")

  local ok, f = fontloader.define_font(fontfile, fontsize, fontprop)

where dirtree.lua is a short extract from your code to provide dirtree and fontloader.lua is unchanged from your code

@topskip However, 'works' here means 'loads with no error': there's no actual output from the selected font :-( With no actual error I'm not sure what to look at next: any ideas?

@DavidCarlisle In the LuaTeX manual, can you spot anything suggesting kpse.find_file(name) won't work for fonts? It seems to fail for me for font files that kpsewhich at the terminal locates just fine

@DavidCarlisle Feel free to look at my failed font loading too :-)

David Carlisle

@JosephWright wouldn't expect to see useful info like that in the manual. I'll have a look ..

$ svn commit -m "fix to end environment code reported by Ulrike" tabularx.dtx changes.txt
Sending        changes.txt
Sending        tabularx.dtx
Transmitting file data ..
Committed revision 1066.

@UlrikeFischer ^^^^^

Joseph Wright

@DavidCarlisle :-)

@DavidCarlisle Font file in question in my above demo, BTW (finding something like latex.ltx is fine)

David Carlisle

@JosephWright do you know what the effective progname is if called from lua, is it still luatex?

Joseph Wright

@DavidCarlisle The manual says that it's luatex during a typesetting run: I did try setting it to various things

David Carlisle

21:54

@JosephWright I think you said before but link to dirtree.lua ?

Joseph Wright

function dirtree(dir)
  assert(dir and dir ~= "", "directory parameter is missing or empty")
  if string.sub(dir, -1) == "/" then
    dir=string.sub(dir, 1, -2)
  end

  local function yieldtree(dir)
    local dirs = {}
    for entry in lfs.dir(dir) do
      if not entry:match("^%.") then
        entry=dir.."/"..entry
        local attr=lfs.attributes(entry)
        if attr then
          if attr.mode ~= "directory" then
            coroutine.yield(entry,attr)
          end
          if attr.mode == "directory" then

@DavidCarlisle ^^^

@DavidCarlisle Mainly avoiding catcode issues with it inline (it's from one of @topskip's other .lua files)

David Carlisle

@JosephWright fontloader.lua from topskip as or did you set up a smaller git repo just for this?

Joseph Wright

@DavidCarlisle topskip's file unaltered

@DavidCarlisle My aim is (if possible) to add just enough code around his stuff to get this to work for LM with 'raw' LuaTeX: you can guess why!

David Carlisle

@JosephWright it sat and thought for a while but then made 1 page hello world doc

Joseph Wright

@DavidCarlisle Yes, but if it does the same as mine you get one 'Hello world' not two, despite what \tracingall says

David Carlisle

22:02

@JosephWright ah.

Joseph Wright

@DavidCarlisle I assume there's some glyph set up I've missed

@DavidCarlisle Raw PDF does have some mention of LM ...

David Carlisle

@JosephWright define_font callback doesn't appear to have been setup (or at least I don't see it)

Joseph Wright

@DavidCarlisle No, but my understanding is that's needed for altering how \font works, not for doing a raw load from the Lua side

@DavidCarlisle @topskip's code doesn't use TeX in that sense, it's all done from the Lua sde (tex.<thing> as required)

David Carlisle

@JosephWright yes suppose so \FOO=select font LMRoman10-Regular. looks plausible.

@JosephWright I know that's what was worrying me:-) also I assume there is no caching? it is very slow

Joseph Wright

@DavidCarlisle Indeed: the luaotfload approach gives \FOO=select font "lmroman10-regular.otf".

David Carlisle

22:10

@JosephWright actually why doesn't it have otf at the end....

Joseph Wright

@DavidCarlisle No caching, no, but the slow bit is the tree reading over the texmf font tree: could be hacked around

@DavidCarlisle I tried fiddling with that before doing tex.definefont

@DavidCarlisle You can try e.g. f.fullname = "lmroman10-regular.otf" and similar, but that doesn't seem to help

David Carlisle

@JosephWright I know I'm getting old and needing glasses but this is a bit small

> \box0=
\hbox(0.0001+0.0)x0.00085, direction TLT
.\FOO H
.\FOO e
.\FOO l
.\FOO l
.\FOO o

Joseph Wright

@DavidCarlisle Ooh, a size issue

Hmm, font table says

type	real
shrink	30
step	10
direction	0
encodingbytes	2
name	LMRoman10-Regular
parameters	table: 0x105ab3610
filename	/usr/local/texlive/2015/texmf-dist/fonts/opentype/public/lm/lmroman10-regular.otf
designsize	10
size	10
cidinfo	table: 0x105ad1f20
auto_expand	true
fullname	LMRoman10-Regular
tounicode	1
embedding	subset
format	opentype
fontloader	table: 0x1072eea60
characters	table: 0x105ab35d0
stretch	40

David Carlisle

@JosephWright in define_font size=1000 is no scaling so should size by 10 there?

Joseph Wright

@DavidCarlisle Ah, I see what it is: size is in sp not pt :-)

@DavidCarlisle Right, so it is working!

David Carlisle

22:18

@JosephWright but small:-)

Joseph Wright

@DavidCarlisle Next step, sort that, try to solve the kpse issue, ...

@DavidCarlisle Indeed: setting the size to 1000000 sorts it

@topskip All is working :-)

@DavidCarlisle With a bit more work this does look workable for a hack-up (I can probably hard-code the relative path for the font file to speed it up)

@topskip Many, many, thanks: this looks like a very useful approach for the problem I'm tackling

David Carlisle

22:34

@JosephWright KPSE: /usr/local/texlive/2015/texmf-dist/fonts/opentype/public/lm/lmroman10-reg

local f = kpse.find_file("lmroman10-regular.otf", "opentype fonts")
texio.write_nl('KPSE: ' .. f)

@JosephWright ^^

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