TeX, LaTeX and Friends

cfr

00:27

@PauloCereda Castell Caerdydd. It is mostly a fake, mind. There's a Norman (?) keep and part of the wall is original, but the rest is a fake constructed by the Marquess of Bute with money from industry in South Wales, if I remember correctly. Although it seems unlikely now, there did used to be industry in South Wales... once upon a time and long, long ago... ;).

Will Robertson

00:51

@FrankMittelbach Type CMD+\ to bring up the console window if it's closed or hidden

Paulo Cereda

@cfr ooh :)

Sean Allred

01:53

Using the #LaTeX hashtag on Twitter has had some unintended side-effects: I'm getting a lot of new followers that realize grandma's initial fears.

2

Frank Mittelbach

06:42

@WillRobertson yeah got that one this morning but hey \ is the worst possible char for that on a German keyboard

Will Robertson

07:21

@FrankMittelbach Ah :) You can remap keyboard shortcuts (for any application) in "System Preferences > Keyboard > Shortcuts > App Shortcuts" then click the + button and enter whatever shortcut you like. Otherwise just use the "File > Show Console Window" menu item in TeXShop.

Frank Mittelbach

@WillRobertson what do you think how many I already have mapped :-( even started to write my own keyboard layout as the backslash is alt-shift-7 by default)

@WillRobertson guess you can drop your answer to 261884: it does fit :-)

egreg

07:51

@FrankMittelbach Quoting Henry Ford: buy a keyboard with any layout, so long as it is American.

Frank Mittelbach

@egreg yeah ... how bad is yours? I'm still struggling to make emacs work the way I like (though I'm kind of getting there). Only issue is that my new keyboard layout gets reset once in a while for now appearent reason

egreg

@FrankMittelbach I use only a few keyboard shortcuts, actually.

Frank Mittelbach

@egreg my problem (with respect to keyboard layout) is not the shortcuts but the fact that \ { } [] and ~ are all in fairly useless positions, eg \ = alt-shft-7 which is really far from being easy to type. So got myself a German alternate keyboard layout where I mapped that key to alt-ß, thus only 2 fingers

egreg

@FrankMittelbach That's why I only buy American keyboards.

Frank Mittelbach

@Johannes_B are you saying my talk is a comedy? :-)

@egreg perhaps I should have done that

egreg

08:03

@FrankMittelbach Yesterday I had a mail exchange with Karl Berry about the closing of my talk in Darmstadt: “Aus dem Paradies, das das LaTeX3 Team uns geschaffen, soll uns niemand vertreiben können”. He removed one “das”, but I think it's correct having two. Can you help, please?

Frank Mittelbach

@egreg he is wrong and you are right

the first "das" = "welches" which would be the posh way to say it

egreg

@FrankMittelbach Danke!

Frank Mittelbach

@egreg bitte schön

@egreg tell him the first das = that and the second = the in "that the LaTeX team has created for us".

Joseph Wright

@FrankMittelbach Indeed: seems perfectly clear to me :-)

egreg

@FrankMittelbach That's what I had already said to him. ;-)

Frank Mittelbach

08:16

@egreg but you may arguably need a "hat" after geschaffen. Maybe ask some people with a proper knowledge of that language if your shortened version still works in their opinion

egreg

08:34

@FrankMittelbach I found the alleged original here: de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hilbertprogramm

@FrankMittelbach And I checked the original paper, which has that text.

link.springer.com/article/10.1007%2FBF01206605?LI=true

Frank Mittelbach

09:14

@egreg yeah, that's why I said it is a little "oldish", so by all means use it following Hilbert's phrasing

yo'

09:49

@cfr LOL :)

Frank Mittelbach

10:17

@PauloCereda done

Paulo Cereda

@FrankMittelbach Thank you very much, Frank! You are the best! <3

Frank Mittelbach

@PauloCereda it would have been better to see that bug when the mparbottom bug showed up a while ago as it is essentially the same problem

Paulo Cereda

@egreg I used to do the very same thing until Brazil got rid of all international keyboards, leaving only the ABNT2 model. I always get confused when I had to switch from any computer of mine to my Mac (which sticks to US International).

@FrankMittelbach Oh interesting.

egreg

@PauloCereda When I had to use an Italian keyboard on a borrowed iBook, I simply switched the layout to US International and did blind typing.

Paulo Cereda

@egreg ooh I do the very same thing, but I always get confused. :)

Paulo Cereda

11:42

@egreg: Can I send my ArsTeXnica paper in English?

Manuel

12:12

Can anyone help me clarify this question?

6

Q: Useful applications of \edef with macro arguments

Well, it's been in my head for some time, but I haven't got anything out of it, so I ask here. At what places could be useful to have \edef\foo#1{..}? What applications could it have? Is it useful at all? Here's one example. \foo gives ten thousand times the argument after one expansion. Of cour...

I'm looking for uses of \edef\foo#1{..} where #1 is inside a macro argument that gets expanded during the \edef, for instance \edef\foo#1{\byten{#1}}. What should I clarify?

barbara beeton

@egreg -- i wouldn't have removed it, if that makes any difference. however, i might have tried to change the spelling of the first to "dass".

@PauloCereda -- someone, presumably claudio beccari, translated a little tugboat article of mine for ars texnica, so whether you send your paper in english or not, it may end up in italian. (and, re my "contribution", i never knew i was so fluent in italian!)

Paulo Cereda

12:28

@barbarabeeton ooh cool! :) I will do that, thanks. :)

Johannes_B

@FrankMittelbach Eine TeXnische Komödie ;-) It was really interesting.

Frank Mittelbach

@Johannes_B thought I was totally straight

Johannes_B

@FrankMittelbach The talk was good.

Frank Mittelbach

@Johannes_B geeh thanks

Johannes_B

@FrankMittelbach Real pitty that i didn't make it to Darmstadt.

yo'

12:34

@Manuel well, the problem is that, when the purpose of the answers is not clear, the question appears not to be clear...

Joseph Wright

12:45

@Manuel #1, etc. is always replaced at point-of-use, after which the \def/\edef difference has 'gone'. Perhaps you are thinking something like \def\foo#1{\edef\fooaux{#1}...?

egreg

@PauloCereda Yes, of course.

yo'

@JosephWright I've found an example that combines, IMHO, all ways how \edef is mostly used: tex.stackexchange.com/a/262134/11002

Manuel

14:03

@yo' The purpose is just “for fun”, in case there's nothing that pleases me or the audience, it could be reduced to a more pragmatic: is there already any package using \edef this way. In any case, I will look carefully, but I think your answer doesn't fit into what I'm looking for. And the fact that it's not clear… well, that's what I'm looking for, because to me it looks clear, but may be my expressions in english left a lot to be desired :)

@JosephWright I know that. But three of you have already tried to tell me so, so it's obvious that the question is not clear, I hope I can rewrite it. I know that. What I was looking for was for use cases where it's useful to have an \edef that acts on a macro that has #1 in its argument, while it's still “symbolic”.

\def\duplicate#1{#1#1} gives me two options, \def\cuadruplicate#1{\duplicate{\duplicate{#1}}} that leaves the cuadruplication to the moment of use, or \edef\cuadruplicate#1{\duplicate{\duplicate{#1}}} that it's the exact of \def\cuadruplicate#1{#1#1#1#1} so at the moment of use no expansion is required. I'm looking for cases where it's useful the second way; if no case comes up, then I'm looking for cases in TeX Live for instance, where this “trick” is used.

It's more or less a theoretical (?) question.

yo'

14:34

@Manuel well, if it's theoretical and you want real-life answers, isn't it a bit of a contradiction? :-)

Faheem Mitha

15:54

I tried to use \vspace in an ad-hoc way to create a vertical space in an article. But it created the vertical space after the line that followed the \vspace command.

egreg

@FaheemMitha Yes, that's what \vspace does if given in a paragraph. What do you want to obtain?

Faheem Mitha

@egreg I'm trying to get a vertical space for a signature. Maybe a kind of box would be better. It's a document which a bunch of people have to sign.

So it's space - signature - space - signature.

Can anyone point me to a suitable template?

egreg

@FaheemMitha Text<blank line>\vspace{2\baselineskip}

Faheem Mitha

@egreg Thanks, I'll try that.

yo'

@FaheemMitha of course, if you want this in a macro, you can use \par in place of a blank line, as always :)

Faheem Mitha

16:12

@yo' Ok, thanks for the tip. :-)

And I didn't know about always...

Manuel

17:00

@yo' I meant theoretical not in that sense. It's similar of Think of an application of \outer primitive, if it doesn't come up, then is there any use of \outer in TeX Live? It's theoretical in the sense that I'm asking if something exists, not that I need it right now.

egreg

17:16

0

Q: Error Missing $ inserted

\textbf{54.Consider the operations \\ f(X,Y,Z)=X$'$YZ+XY$'$+Y$'$Z$'$ and g(X,Y,Z)=X$'$YZ+X$'$YZ$'$ + XY }\\ Which one of the following is correct?\\ (A) Both \{f\} and \{g\} are functionally complete\\ (B) Only\{f\} is functionally complete \\ (C) Only \{g\} is functionally complete \\ (D) Neithe...

errors

Where to start? :(

barbara beeton

@egreg -- send this poor misbegotten soul to some elementary instruction material. (but not the latex wikibook.) or ask him to draw on a piece of paper what he wants and post a scan. he could certainly benefit from having someone knowledgeable at his elbow!

Stephan Lehmke

18:03

@egreg This looks like the result of some OCR software...

yo'

@StephanLehmke that would probably not create a faulty code. And I more think that the OP has read somewhere that the prime is written as $'$ so he uses it...

Joseph Wright

19:25

@FrankMittelbach Have spend a fun hour reading about branching and merging in SVN :-)

@FrankMittelbach I suspect we need the real expert here: @DavidCarlisle!

Frank Mittelbach

19:46

@JosephWright probably ... though I think I got the basics again

@JosephWright still trying to wrap my head around good conventions on module names but I guess that needs a long bicycle ride tomorrow

Joseph Wright

@FrankMittelbach Indeed

yo'

20:07

@FrankMittelbach :-) after my bike was stolen, I walk daily to solve these things

Frank Mittelbach

@yo' have a 30km ride tomorrow (don't think I want that walking

Joseph Wright

@FrankMittelbach Certainly a reasonable chunk of the day to walk

yo'

@FrankMittelbach sounds good for a bike. Along Rhein, or up some of the mountains?

Frank Mittelbach

@yo' 2 villages up the Rhein (one or two hills and some woods to cross as I intend to cut across from my place)

yo'

@FrankMittelbach ah riding the forest, I've always loved that :) If I don't get accepted to Japan, I buy a bike here.

Frank Mittelbach

20:17

@yo' you want to go to Japan? nice

yo'

@FrankMittelbach I've applied, yes, a 2-year project

Frank Mittelbach

@yo' cool - where?

yo'

@FrankMittelbach Tsukuba (very close to Tokyo)

Frank Mittelbach

@yo' been there once (my first time in Japn) - doing what?

yo'

@FrankMittelbach maths / theoretical CS

Frank Mittelbach

20:26

@yo' good luck then

yo'

@FrankMittelbach well, thanks! I'll need it (120 slots for the whole Japan in all science, for foreign visitors)

Frank Mittelbach

@yo' fingers crossed then - was certainly an experience for me

guys - call it a day 'night

Sean Allred

@JosephWright Interesting thingy submitgit.herokuapp.com

yo'

@FrankMittelbach how long did you spend there?

egreg

@yo' Less than 600 km from Norbert.

David Carlisle

20:28

I'm home:-)

egreg

@DavidCarlisle End of holidays?

Joseph Wright

@SeanAllred Hmm

yo'

@egreg Norbert Preining?

David Carlisle

@egreg yep, back at work tomorrow

Joseph Wright

@SeanAllred @WillRobertson and I are exploring subgit at the moment

@DavidCarlisle I'm off until next week

egreg

20:30

@DavidCarlisle Lucky one, I still have two weeks of holidays.

David Carlisle

@JosephWright averaged less than 30mph driving home on the M25 from gatwick past heathrow:(

egreg

@DavidCarlisle Supersonic speed!

Joseph Wright

@DavidCarlisle Indeed, it is the world's biggest car park

@DavidCarlisle Did you see the SVN merge business on the team list?

David Carlisle

@JosephWright off and on, but we were packing and doing end of holiday things so more like saw the mails go past rather than actually following them:-) will catch up...

Joseph Wright

@DavidCarlisle Good plan ;-)

Sean Allred

20:45

@JosephWright I recall. Anyway I can help?

percusse

@Manuel I don't think there are such cases because as a few others mentioned #1 is not expanded. Otherwise defining a macro with arguments wouldn't be possible. Are you trying to come to the 2^n-1 \expandafter trick? Where things are expanded in the reverse order?

Joseph Wright

@SeanAllred Probably not at this stage: it's all working 'behind the scenes', just need to couple up to GitHub (currently only the team can access the 'live' Git mirror)

percusse

@Manuel Maybe you should first clarify what you mean by #1. Is it the runtime value of it such that whatever supplied as the argument or the literal definition as Heiko explained as taking it literally two characters #1. You can use ##1, ####1 as examples to differentiate from the argument if that's what you mean.

David Carlisle

@Manuel lots of really useful packages by brilliant authors use \outer

Joseph Wright

@DavidCarlisle :-)

egreg

20:52

@yo' Yes!

yo'

@egreg ah cool!

Alan Munn

22:16

Kern from hell. Ce la fait mal mon oeil.

6

yo'

22:30

@AlanMunn ton \oe il? :)

Alan Munn

@yo' Ouais

yo'

@AlanMunn qu'est-ce?

eh, je vais au lit. Bonne nuit!

percusse

@AlanMunn When did you kem from hell ?

Alan Munn

@yo' Bonne nuit

@percusse Well it could have been today: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hell,_Michigan

percusse

@AlanMunn Haha, sans-serif manifesto should start with that HeIl Michigan

Alan Munn

22:48

@percusse :)

Transcript for

$TeX - LaTeX$ TeX, LaTeX and Friends