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8:03 PM
How can one insert a space in \csname...\endcsname?
 
8:18 PM
@tohecz: can you help me with math? :P
 
@PauloCereda sure
 
@tohecz As usual, don't laugh. :)
I have a set of ordered pairs, { (a, 1), (b, 12), (c, 8) }. Is it too difficult to define a (partial) function that gets me the ordered pair with the second element being the greatest (in this case, (b, 12))?
I'm quite stuck here.
 
you mean in terms of math? and why would that function be partial?
 
@tohecz Yep. :) I don't want to say here's a function max(...) that magically does stuff. :) And in a second thought, it doesn't seem to be partial at all. :P
Sorry, I'm very slow today.
I thought of defining a < relation on this set.
 
Well, define \max_2 A := \max \{ y : (x,y) \in A \} and then f(A) = x \text{ such that } (x,\max_2 A)\in A for instance
 
8:25 PM
@tohecz \space
 
or just say somehow that this is how you're gonna use \argmax
@JosephWright ah ok, simple as that :)
 
@tohecz Oh I see! :)
 
Or just say: "We denote $\argmax A$ such $x$ that $(x,y)\in A$ and $y$ is the largest possible." And write it out in words this way.
 
@tohecz Genius! Thank you Tom! :)
 
because this is the definition of \argmax if you treat your tuples as a relation which is actually a multi-function.
@PauloCereda Rule no. n: Never use complicated symbolics just because you're unable to write it in words ;)
 
8:31 PM
@egreg You have a small backtick mismatch at the end of your answer
 
@tohecz :)
 
@percusse I'll look at it
 
@tohecz Isn't it just $\arg\max_{(x,y)\in A}{y}$
 
@percusse Even if \arg\max seems to produce the correct output I wouldn't use it; try it in display math mode.
 
@percusse well, that returns $(x,y)$ basically, and anyways it's good to define it. People don't like "too much notation assumptions". I get comments in reviews that I should "say what \lfloor x\rfloor is when I use it".
 
8:39 PM
@egreg You mean the spacing between arg and max?
 
@percusse No, that's fine; but the subscript would go only below “max”
 
@percusse well, the way to go is \DeclareMathOperator{\argmax}{arg\,max}
 
@tohecz Or, better, \DeclareMathOperator*{arg\,max}
 
@egreg Shouldn't it be the case? I tend to read as argument of the max operation. And I guess we shouldn't include the limits to arg.
 
@egreg oh yeah
 
8:40 PM
@percusse No, it isn't the case.
 
@percusse no, you can't at all seperate arg and max: arg doesn't make any sense without max
 
@tohecz \arg= Argument of?
I take it as a sticky operator
 
@percusse so what is \arg f(x) then (well, besides \Im \ln f(x))
 
@tohecz x
 
@percusse ok, then \arg \max_{(x,y)\in A} y is what?
 
8:43 PM
@tohecz (\hat x, \hat y) that has the largest y because f(x) in this case is the max value not the pair.
you are maximizing over the pairs
so that's the argument
x in this case
 
Well, for me, argument is A in this case, if it has to be anyhow similar to f(x)
 
that's \dom f(x)
 
and that's the problem: It's not a standard notation ;)
I mean, if you prepare slides: fine. If you write down an article: fine, but with a comment on how do you mean it ;) For me, \argmax is something that can't be seperated, and the space in between is there because these are two words.
 
@tohecz True, I'm sure I'm violating some well established notation of some field with practically any notation.
 
@percusse It's often like this. I found it strange that the floor function should be defined, but I don't argue
 
8:48 PM
@tohecz I choose the banjo
I mean I usually go into pointless arguments with journals :)
 
@percusse yeah, to drive people like me crazy!
 
@percusse No, you can't do it; when you compute f(x) you can't, in general, recover x; that's only for invertible functions.
 
@tohecz :) Well I pay $175 for an extra page of an online article, I should at least nag a bit
 
@percusse well, then the journal is your enemy and not a collaborator. Journals should be positive and fair in judgement
 
@percusse This is “dom f”, probably. Using the variable is simply wrong. I know that many people do; it's wrong nonetheless.
 
8:51 PM
@egreg In optimization and other problems, we usually don't know what the global optimizer anyways. But we need to say something about it. So the function invertibility is naturally not assumed
 
@percusse So, what "the argument of f(x)” should mean? Nothing.
 
You mean we don't know if we have a multi-valued inverse function
@egreg But that's never assumed no? Say, I modify the text as \arg=argument set of
A boring example is the max of a constant function. That would equate \dom and \arg in my limited understanding
over reals...
no wonder I don't do mathematics :)
 
x \leftarrow \argmax A
Oopsie.
 
@PauloCereda Quoi?
 
@tohecz x gets the first element of the ordered pair with the largest value? :)
 
9:04 PM
ah yeah
 
@tohecz You are the culprit. <3
 
@PauloCereda Maybe it helps if you specify clearly what's the domain of this function. I still don't understand.
 
Hmm, maybe I should embarrass myself to you: Here is my understanding.

Let `f:X\times Y \to R` such that `f(x,y) = y` where `X` and `Y` are Banach also let `t = \max_{(x,y)\in X\times Y}`. Then assume `S\times T` be a subset of `X\times Y` such that for every element `(x*,y*)` in `S\times T`, `\max f(x*,y*) = t`. For that we say `\arg\max_{(x,y)\in X\times Y} = S\times T` ?
fixed font doesn't work? Hmm... anyway nevermind
 
@egreg It's a set of ordered pairs. The second element of the pair is a natural number. I would like to return the first element of the pair which has the largest number.
Confusing? :(
Even I don't know what I'm talking about.
 
@PauloCereda Yes.
 
9:10 PM
@egreg I'm sorry, it's very complicated to be a newbie. :(
{ (h, 30), (k, 20), (n, 19) }, and I would like to get h.
 
@PauloCereda Don't use the pair then. Imagine you are plotting a function which means you have pairs of points (x,f(x)). But you still can say the argument of \max f(x)
You don't need the pair business
 
@PauloCereda Your domain is probably a set of sets of ordered pairs. For each of those sets, call it A, you want to consider the set of second elements in A, compute its maximum, and select a first element corresponding to it.
 
@egreg Oh.
 
@PauloCereda Is it?
 
@egreg I think it's just a set of ordered pairs, not a set of sets of ordered pairs. :)
But hey, you are the mathematician. :P
I'm already confused by my own thoughts. :)
 
9:13 PM
@PauloCereda So you don't have a function. No domain? No function.
 
@egreg Isn't my set the domain?
 
@egreg well, I think that @Paulo can just say that $A$ is actually a multi-function. Then $\argmax A$ has a well-defined meaning
 
@tohecz Quoi?
:)
I'm gonna jump from the bridge.
 
Or you have an x from the set I={h,n,k} and a function f:I \to S\subset \mathbb{N}. Then you have \arg\max f(x)=h
 
@tohecz That's a function having as domain a set of sets of ordered pairs.
 
9:17 PM
@PauloCereda whatever set of ordered pairs is a relation. Every relation is an incomplete multi-function (to each left argument it assigns zero, one or more right arguments).
@egreg let's call a "set of ordered pairs" a "relation" and it'll be simpler:)
 
@tohecz Oh my!!!!! (a, b) = { a, {a, b} }, isn't it?
 
then yes, \argmax has as a domain all relations ;)
@PauloCereda that's a very formal definition.
 
@tohecz :)
Oh my, I'm failing at typing smileys. :(
@egreg Oh, I think now I see what you mean! Oh my, sorry! I'm so dummy. :(
 
@PauloCereda I did implement your song packing problem but I don't think I'll post the code, it may have had a few unwanted features
 
@DavidCarlisle Really? Do it, please. I'll give you a bounty. :)
And thank you.
 
9:28 PM
@PauloCereda Kuratowski's definition is (a,b)={{a},{a,b}}
 
@PauloCereda I stopped it after 5000 pages, all of which appeared to be white...
 
@egreg Ah. :)
@DavidCarlisle Holy \newpage!
 
@PauloCereda It's possible that there was an error in my iteration logic, unless your MWE had more songs than I thought.
 
@DavidCarlisle Nah don't worry. :) Any idea is welcome. :)
@egreg: I'll rewrite everything. :) I suspect I'm making things way more complicated than they should be in the first place. :)
 
@PauloCereda Victoria de los Ángeles is singing “L'amour est un oiseau rebelle”
 
9:37 PM
@egreg OMG I love playing that piece!
Go Bizet!
 
L'amour est enfant de Bohême // Il n'a jamais, jamais connu de loi
Maybe she's thinking to Tom. ;-)
 
@egreg Ah l'amour. :)
 
9:59 PM
@egreg who?
 
@tohecz Carmen!
 
@egreg ah ok
wait a moment, isn't Carmen an opera?
 
@tohecz Yes, in her first air, Carmen sings “L'amour est enfant de Bohême // Il n'a jamais, jamais connu de loi”
 
@egreg ok, I didn't know that. However, "boheme", besides refering to my home, refers to a certain approach to life as well (but I suppose that it is so in many languages)
 
@tohecz Yes, of course: Bohemians were considered funny people. ;-)
 
10:07 PM
@egreg what a compliment! :D
 
@tohecz Or, maybe, peculiar people. ;-)
 
@egreg well, certainly!
 
10:20 PM
@egreg good people. :)
 
@PauloCereda are you sure? :D
 
11:19 PM
This person seems to be seriously disgruntled, doesn't he?
@egreg: I see too many people using LaTeX too, when they shouldn't. This formula would be much easier to render in MS Word, so why don't you just go ahead and tell me to use a different tool altogether? — Mehrdad 1 hour ago
 
11:33 PM
@tohecz Quite
 
@egreg And this person seems to think that everyone is his manual-reading slave:
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Q: How to have bold font in mdframed environment?

MasiI did not find bold word in the manual. My tex is: \documentclass{article} \usepackage[framemethod=tikz]{mdframed} \newtheorem{question}{Question} \mdfdefinestyle{que}{ linecolor=cyan, backgroundcolor=cyan!20, } \surroundwithmdframed[style=que]{question} \begin{document} \begin{question} Lor...

0
Q: To have normal font in mdframed environment

MasiI try \newtheorem{question}{Question} \mdfdefinestyle{que}{ font = \normalfont, % not working linecolor=cyan, backgroundcolor=cyan!20, } \surroundwithmdframed[style=que]{question} but without success. The font is in italics at the moment. How can you have normal font in such a environme...

 
@tohecz If the answer doesn't involve TeX at all, you aren't trying hard enough. :)
 
@tohecz I suspect it's because of the tie.
 
@egreg may be. Let's blame all the ties in the world :p
 
@tohecz I very rarely wear a tie.
 
11:46 PM
@egreg LOL
 
@egreg I wear bowties :)
 
@egreg Bow ties are cool. /waits for @cgnieder to spot the ref
@tohecz Bow ties are cool.
:)
 
@tohecz Never in my life. ;-)
 
@PauloCereda yep, I have those you have to tie yourself :) I'm thinking about getting a tartan vestcoast and a matching bowtie shipped from Scotland :)
@egreg I wear them sometimes to the church when I play the organ
 
@egreg:
user image
2
My whole tie life resumed above. :)
 
11:50 PM
@PauloCereda lol
time to go to bed (not that it would be far in my 10-metre appartment)
 
@tohecz Good night, Tom! :)
 
@PauloCereda byebye!
 
@egreg: I offered David a 500 bounty, but he seems shy. :)
 
@PauloCereda you could downvote egreg 250 times instead?
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