TeX, LaTeX and Friends

Ali Raf

01:01

Hi all. I have a question about nomenclature style in Lyx. How can I make the acronyms and definitions into a tabulated nice form using LaTex Preamble. Sorry if my question is not well-formulated since I'm new to LaTex/Lyx.

Stephan Lehmke

10:28

Anyone ever heard of PPML?

PPML

PPML (Personalized Print Markup Language) is an XML-based industry standard printer language for variable data printing defined by PODi. The industry-wide consortium of 13 companies was initially formed to create PPML, and now has more than 400 member companies. Overview PPML is an open, inter-operable, device-independent standard first released in 2000 to enable the widespread use of personalized print applications. PPML is made to enable efficient production printing of variable data; rather than sending 300 copies of the same data with only a name changed, PPML is designed to allow a...

Joseph Wright

11:12

@StephanLehmke No, why do you ask?

Paulo Cereda

0

Q: Do all the eminent computer scientists use LaTeX and friends?

I am not sure if this belonged to the main site. I am putting it here to be on the safe side. Use of TeX/LaTeX have been pioneered by the computer scientists and mathematicians. Now, it is no longer confined to any group of people of a particular major. I understand that the short answer to my ...

discussion

Eminent computer scientist? Why, thank you. Yes, I use LaTeX. :)

3

Stephan Lehmke

@JosephWright Just out of interest. I just heard from someone in the printing industry that for individualised digital printing, PDF can't be rendered efficiently enough so they're using PPML. Naturally I'm interested how this can be produced, but search for PPML on the site brought no results.

egreg

@PauloCereda The PhD students of eminent computer scientists perhaps use LaTeX, not their Lord and Master. ;-)

David Carlisle

@StephanLehmke this suggests you can massage a PDF into PPML by supplying the XML data... standards.podi.org/ppml/faqs.html

Stephan Lehmke

11:30

@DavidCarlisle Yes this is also what that guy told me: The PPML they used (possibly PPML supports more than that) was more or less a giant bunch of PDF snippets arranged on pages by an enclosing XML. The main question would be, how to decompose a given (set of) PDF file(s) into a sequence of snippets joined by an enclosing XML such that the PPML rendering process would be maximally efficient? Probably it would be required that the snippets have as little redundancy as possible to maximise reuse.

Of course I can imagine how to design such a process based on DocScapes object-oriented page model, but it would be interesting whether any TeX-related work has already been don on this subject.

Also it would be interesting to know whether free tools for PDF-to-PPML conversion exist.

Paulo Cereda

13:27

@egreg so true. :)

Alan Munn

15:51

@herbert Here's a simple PSTricks example that doesn't compile with XeLaTeX:

\documentclass{article}
\usepackage{tree-dvips}
\begin{document}
Some \node{text}{text}
\par\vspace{1in}
in the \node{document}{document}.
\nodecurve[r]{text}[r]{document}{2in}
\end{document}

egreg

@AlanMunn tree-dvips doesn't use PSTricks, but rather low level \special commands that are understood only by dvips.

Alan Munn

@egreg Oh well. I guess I've never thought about the distinction, since this was the only ps-<whatever> package that I used. :) So maybe it's not fair, but for the general user, it may not be the case that every package that usually requires latex+dvips can be compiled with xelatex.

Herbert

@AlanMunn As Enrico wrote, it has nothing to do with PSTricks and is a really old package. I suppose problems in fact of the pro file. I'll have a look.

egreg

% how to run.
% \input tree.sty or \documentstyle[tree]{..}
% run through latex as you normally do
% remember to send it to a postscript printer

% Written by Emma Pease
% Modified by Avery Andrews May 1992
% Modifications suggested by Gintautas Grigelionis
% ([email protected]) added May 1995
% arrows fixed on anodeconnect and aanodeconnect added May 1995 by Emma

Alan Munn

16:07

@Herbert Yes, I know it's an old package, but it still works with latex+dvips Since it's a package that I used to use a lot (now replaced by tikz-qtree) it coloured my view of the relation between PSTricks and XeLaTeX. I can delete my comments if you like.

egreg

And here's what happens:

** WARNING ** Unknown token "@beginspec"
** WARNING ** Interpreting PS code failed!!! Output might be broken!!!
** WARNING ** Interpreting special command ps: (ps:) failed.

So it's the xdvipdfmx driver that doesn't understand the \special syntax used.

\def\pscmd#1{\special{ps:@beginspec%
/nodemargin \@int{\the\nodemargin}\space pt def %
\@int{\the\treelinewidth}\space pt setlinewidth %
\ifdim\dashlength=0pt [] 0 setdash%
/arrowwidth \@int{\the\arrowwidth}\space pt def %
/arrowlength \@int{\the\arrowlength}\space pt def %
/arrowinset \@int{\the\arrowinset}\space pt def %
\else [\@int{\the\dashlength}\space pt] 0 setdash \fi\space #1 %
@endspec}}

Alan Munn

@egreg It also fails if you load pstricks with the pdf option and then run with pdflatex.

egreg

@AlanMunn Yes, the \special is hardcoded.

Herbert

@AlanMunn No, no need to delete your comment. There are indeed some sources which can't be run with XeLaTeX, but not easy ones. That was the reason why I asked for a simple one.

Alan Munn

@Herbert It seemed to me that the problematic examples are ones in which the pstricks code is simply interspersed with the regular text as opposed to being in a pspicture environment. But maybe that's just with the tree-dvips code.

Joseph Wright

16:53

@egreg Oh good, \documentstyle :-)

egreg

@JosephWright Well, in 1992 it was still used.

Joseph Wright

@egreg Certainly, but modifications in 1995

egreg

@JosephWright I too used it, because AMS-TeX wanted it. I really switched to LaTeX only after LaTeX2e was released.

Joseph Wright

Speaking of versions, programmers.stackexchange.com/questions/219759/… was interesting. I've never realised that people had written formal rules for versions. Wonder how they view '2.09' - > '2e' :-)

egreg

@JosephWright While formal rules may exist, I guess there are more people not following them than complying people

Alan Munn

16:59

@JosephWright Given that the package was almost exclusively by linguists and the knowledge was passed on from one to the next, I suspect that people just adapted. We're a pretty smart bunch. :)

Joseph Wright

@egreg :-)

Alan Munn

17:37

@egreg Is there any way to adjust the indent of just the first item in a list?

egreg

@AlanMunn I'm not sure what you mean.

Alan Munn

@egreg How to avoid the indent before (a):

\documentclass{article}
\usepackage{enumitem}
\usepackage{kantlipsum}
\setlist[enumerate]{nosep,itemindent=2em}
\begin{document}
\begin{enumerate}
\item\kant[1]
\item\begin{enumerate}
  \item\kant[2]
  \item\kant[3]
\end{enumerate}
\end{enumerate}
\end{document}
\begin{document}

Canageek

The dark side of LaTeX just bit me on the ass

0

Q: Emergency crash course on LaTeX

So, I wrote a document in LaTeX. Someone who doesn't know LaTeX and is a very busy person now has to edit it. Is there a crash course in LaTeX document? Aside from saying 'Ignore everything that starts with \'? Like a one page \textit means italic, % means a comment; you can ignore anything after...

documentation

tohecz

17:52

@Canageek Well, I wouldn't expect any sufficient answer to that one, TBH. Everyone working with LaTeX knows that crash courses on LaTeX are paid by a very high price of people doing bad with LaTeX...

Canageek

@tohecz I'm aware, but he only has to edit the text, I can patch up the LaTeX afterwards.

tohecz

@Canageek LyX maybe?

Canageek

@tohecz You can edit an existing TeX document with that?

Alan Munn

@Canageek Probably not quite what you want: Nano companion

3

egreg

@AlanMunn Good question. ;-)

Alan Munn

18:02

@egreg It is. I've been messing around with it for a while, and can't figure out a solution.

Stephan Lehmke

@Canageek Buy him a LaTeX cup ;-)

egreg

@AlanMunn A very horrible hack

\documentclass{article}
\usepackage{enumitem}
\usepackage{kantlipsum}
\setlist[enumerate]{nosep,itemindent=2em}

\newcommand{\trickindent}{%
  \let\normalitem\item
  \def\item{%
    \itemindent=0pt
    \normalitem
    \itemindent=2em
    \let\item\normalitem}%
}

\begin{document}
\begin{enumerate}
\item\kant*[1]
\item\begin{enumerate}[before=\trickindent]
  \item\kant*[2]
  \item\kant*[3]
\end{enumerate}
\end{enumerate}
\end{document}
\begin{document}

tohecz

@Canageek you can import it, quite certainly

Alan Munn

@egreg Well now you can answer this question. :)

Stephan Lehmke

egreg

18:19

@AlanMunn I don't think so. The layout is different, if you look closely. And very confusing, too.

Canageek

@tohecz Will that mess up all my LaTeX?

HUM!

Alan Munn

18:37

@egreg That's easily fixable. Can I post an answer crediting you for the hack, or do you want to remain anonymous? ;-)

egreg

@AlanMunn It's already here, so I can't hide. ;-)

tohecz

@Canageek well, quite likely. But if it's only text and formatting, it should not.

@egreg We use \subset\subset for subgroups in our Algebra courses. When I was making the notes, I switched to \Subset and nobody complained.

egreg

@tohecz I think Rudin uses it for the precise case mentioned in the question: $A\subset\subset B$ when the closure of $A$ is a subset of $B$

tohecz

18:52

@egreg and you think that \Subset can't be used for that?

egreg

@tohecz People can use whatever symbol they like, so long as it's understood in their field. Your solution is ugly both graphically and TeXnically.

\newcommand{\ssubset}{\subset\mathrel{\mskip-9mu}\subset}

tohecz

@egreg Well, graphically, it's a matter of taste, people use double \sqsubset so why not double \subset. And TeXnically, well, I stronly hope that \ll occupies the right amount of space in the font the person is going to use. I basically didn't want to have to deal with \mathchoice adjustments

The truth is that I wouldn't use such symbol...

Donut E. Knot

Is the equation environment also floating?

egreg

@DonutE.Knot No! That would be shocking!

Donut E. Knot

@egreg But... stdout.org/~winston/latex/latexsheet.pdf categorized it as floating environment.

egreg

19:02

@DonutE.Knot There are many wrong statements around the Internet.

tohecz

@egreg true dat!

Donut E. Knot

@egreg I see. :-)

Joseph Wright

19:44

@StephanLehmke Cool: order for Christmas?

Canageek

20:06

Waits for someone to explain why equations floating around is heresy and figures floating around is not

Joseph Wright

@Canageek Equations are generally treated as part of the flow of the text, and sentences are structured as such. Figures generally are not: you use text that allows them (logically) to float.

2

@Canageek Does raise some issues for we chemists: schemes often do fit better into the flow

2

Canageek

@JosephWright I was about to say, I suddenly understand why math and CS people ( @DavidCarlisle ) keep saying to just let them float....

Joseph Wright

@Canageek The difference is I think in part that most maths equations can break into one or perhaps two-line parts, so work near page breaks, but for chemical schemes you can't generally assume that

@Canageek Certainly journals set schemes as floats, although they do also allow 'display equations' for simple situations (ionic equilibria, for example)

Canageek

@JosephWright No kidding, a lot of them I've seen are near full page in size (For example, Liddle's recent U(III) Nature paper

Joseph Wright

@Canageek Not up on uranium so much: must have missed that one!

Canageek

20:17

@JosephWright A lot of people don't like his work, so you aren't missing much, though that paper looks pretty solid.

He activates AgSbF6 though, which I'm sure wasn't his intention!

tohecz

@JosephWright Schemes can be considered equations, in this sense, but I agree that if they're nasty, they break badly at page-breaks.

Joseph Wright

@tohecz Yes, but as I say publishers tend to treat as floats

tohecz

@JosephWright That's wrong of the publishers. /says publisher

Joseph Wright

@tohecz Well we do have equations too (rarely, but are seen)

Canageek

@JosephWright I know some journals have you put all the figures at the end, then put them where they think is good manually

Joseph Wright

20:20

@tohecz Tends to work OK in the main, when done by professionals

Canageek

@JosephWright Depending on the feild; physical chemistry has lots of them

Joseph Wright

@Canageek You always put 'SCHEME X NEAR HERE' in the manuscript, though

tohecz

@JosephWright yeah, like aC2H5OH + bO2 -> cCO2 + dH2O, and find coprime a,b,c,d ;)

Joseph Wright

@Canageek Those tend to be maths equations, in my experience

Canageek

@JosephWright Oh yeah those.

Joseph Wright

20:22

@Canageek Found the Liddle paper :-)

Canageek

@JosephWright I used that for a question in class, when we had to write a worksheet. ^^

@JosephWright Someone should generallize the minipage + caption way of making non-floating figures into a package.

Joseph Wright

@Canageek Nah, we should just finish xor

Canageek

@JosephWright xor?

Joseph Wright

@Canageek New output routine for LaTeX3, with an entirely new float algorithm. Very clever code, but not production-ready.

I blame @DavidCarlisle :-)

tohecz

@Canageek you mean the \begin{figure}[H]? Noooooo! :D

@JosephWright yeah, but still, it won't be able what Patoline does (one of the few good things): inter-page optimization of paragraph breaking and glue stretching.

Canageek

20:25

@tohecz Does that use a minipage? I didn't find it worked right, I wonder if I'm doing something wrong with it.

Joseph Wright

@tohecz No, true

@tohecz Have you tried Patoline for 'real world' cases, then?

tohecz

@Canageek When the float works without [H], it ought to work with [H].

@JosephWright No, not me, but I've seen the (quite impressive sometimes) results. Still, there's a lot in the structure that prevents me from (ever) considering it.

Canageek

@tohecz Do I need to add more packages or something?

tohecz

@Canageek \usepackage{float}

Joseph Wright

@tohecz My quick look suggests some serious issues

tohecz

20:27

@JosephWright you mean quick look into the structure? yeah

Canageek

@tohecz Ah, people never mention that, and I'd given up on floats, so I didn't look it up

@tohecz Is there any diffrence between H and minipage?

tohecz

btw, isn't it funny, that a package that prevents things from floating is called float ?

@Canageek it gives proper spacing, for instance

Joseph Wright

@tohecz Yes, exactly

@tohecz Not its main task

xor builds all of that stuff in, hence needing to finish it

Canageek

@tohecz OH! No more fiddlinging with \vspace after it? Nice. I'll try it

tohecz

@Canageek yep, it uses \intextsep or how's that guy called

Canageek

20:29

Hmm, I wonder if old bottle of K4Fe(CN)6 is still anhydrous or if it is the trihydrate

tohecz

@JosephWright what stuff? [H]?

Joseph Wright

@tohecz That, an interface for new float types, ...

@Canageek Dry it: I'd azeotrope in toluene

tohecz

@JosephWright those folks mixing identically-looking fluids in very much hope that the labels are correct :p

Canageek

@JosephWright Eh, I've also got a thing of the trihydrate, I'll just use that instead. Just for a demo

Joseph Wright

@Canageek Ah, right

Canageek

20:32

@JosephWright Just need to know which mass to use, and sure, my conc will be a tiny bit off due to the trihydrate, but I'm just painting with it

WHY I am painting with toxic chemicals.....

Joseph Wright

@Canageek Not toxic: anti-caking agent in salt!

Canageek

@JosephWright Are you sure? Sigma says LD50 Oral - rat - 3,613 mg/kg

Not VERY toxic, but still....

@JosephWright I'm also using NH4SCN

tohecz

@Canageek what does this ratio mean?

Canageek

@tohecz That is the amount it takes to kill 50% of a rat population in an hour. 3 grams per kilogram of body mass.

tohecz

@Canageek oh that comma is not a decimal comma! /very big sigh

Canageek

20:39

@tohecz No, that is only used by evil people. I've never seen it used in chemistry.

tohecz

@Canageek evel people: Czech, Slovak, French and many others :p

Canageek

@tohecz Exactly. France = evil.

tohecz

@Canageek do you know that I am in France, get a good money in France and do my PhD in France? :P

Canageek

@tohecz Look at the abomination they make of spacing before !

@tohecz On the other hand, they gave us SI, so I can't be too harsh on them. They need to stop caving to the Amaricans on spelling though. ph not f, dammit.

@tohecz It is also their fault all Canadians have to take French in school.

tohecz

@Canageek No way! The correct is f, and s

@Canageek Canada can drop Quebec if they want.

J G

20:43

hi @JosephWright !

Canageek

@tohecz Nein! Colour, Supher, Litre (Ok, that one is totally French, but hey).

J G

hi @Canageek and @tohecz

Canageek

@tohecz Eh, I just say revoke the Notwithstanding clause and force them to obey the constitution.

tohecz

@Canageek all these are totally French. The only one that is not is fysics

Canageek

@tohecz Yeah. The order of evil is France < US

J G

20:44

Would it be horrible of me to steer the direction towards latex?

Canageek

@JG Nope

tohecz

Remember, it's \phi\iota\sigma\iota... in Greek

J G

I know how to write a fraction such as 6/8: $\frac{3}{4}$

hahaha

i meant $\frac{6}{8}$

Canageek

@JG Ok, go on

J G

what i want to do is reduce: i want to cross off the 6 and put a 3 to the top right and cross of the 8 and put a 4 to the bottom right

i have tried using the cancel packages

but i can't quite figure it out

for example: $\frac{\cancelto{3}}{\frac{6}}$ $\frac{8}{4}$

something like that at least

Paulo Cereda

20:47

@JosephWright: mind if I answer this? meta.tex.stackexchange.com/questions/3975/…

J G

i looked around on the SE and got the cancel package

yet i can't find good example of its implements, at least along the olines of what i'm looking for

Canageek

@JG I think I see the problem, one second

J G

i know my syntax wasn't correct there at all ....

Canageek

@JG [\frac{\cancelto{4}{8}}{\cancelto{3}{6}}]

J G

yes like that @Canageek thanks! however, is it possible to have it such that there are now arrow heads?

Canageek

20:54

@JG Doesn't LOOK like it, but you can change the size of them

Joseph Wright

@PauloCereda Go for it

Paulo Cereda

@JosephWright Thanks.

Stephan Lehmke

21:13

@JosephWright lob.de/cgi-bin/work/…

Werner

@JG What about

Paulo Cereda

@JosephWright: youtube.com/watch?v=zfTQY_9b9ec :)

tohecz

@Werner I wouldn't even make 4 and 3 smaller, rather I would seperate them from 8 and 6 by \, @JG

Anyways, it's 22.17 and I'm at work. I think I should leave just now.

kan

Debian Wheezy = :) but Hardware failure:(

J G

@Werner Yes I think that is exactly what I'd like!

I'm not following @tohecz 's concern or suggestion

Werner

21:23

@JG \frac{\cancel{8}^4}{\cancel{6}^3}

J G

@Werner exactly how did you make that and would it be possible to make the 3 below the 6, as a subscript?

@Werner ok with exponents that is a superscript. is the subscript possible? just _ ?

like \cancel{6}_3 ?

Werner

@JG Yup. That should work...

J G

oh great this is excellent @Werner

i don't mean to be picky ... but if i wanted to elevate the 4 more ... would i do something like 8^{}^4 ?

or is there a way to elevate it more?

David Carlisle

21:37

@JG That would rise it less (or perhaps the same, depending on font metrics) , make 4 a superscript of a null atom rather than the 8

J G

@DavidCarlisle sorry what are you suggesting exactly?

David Carlisle

@JosephWright blame me for it being clever or not production ready? (I'll assume the former)

@JG I just came in and haven't read all the previous but 8^4 makes 4 the superscript of 8 but {}^4 makes it a superscript of an empty atom, but actually I misread: you had 8^{}^4 which is a syntax error

J G

@DavidCarlisle It's all good. Basically I am wondering whether I can elevate the 4 any higher in \frac{\cancel{8}^4}{\cancel{6}^3}

or rather: \frac{\cancel{8}^4}{\cancel{6}_3}

David Carlisle

@JG funnily enough we just added cancel notation to MathML northeastarrow w3.org/Math/draft-spec/chapter3-d.html#presm.menclose

@JG \raisebox? or \strut^4 or...

Johannes_B

$8^{^4}$ should work

J G

21:45

@Johannes_B $ \frac{\cancel{8}^{^4}{\cancel{6}_3}$ produces a syntax error unless I misunderstood ....

David Carlisle

@Johannes_B but makes 4 scriptscript size

J G

never mind @Johannes_B I did not count my } correctly

$ \frac{\cancel{8}^{^4}}{\cancel{6}_3}$

thank you that's perfect! likewise on the 3 i could add another _ : $ \frac{\cancel{8}^{^4}}{\cancel{6}_{_3}}$

David Carlisle

@JG I'd do $ \frac{\cancel{8}\strut^4}{\cancel{6}\strut_3}$

J G

Thanks @DavidCarlisle Yes the strut is more aligned with that I'm looking for! Never heard of it before

Johannes_B

@DavidCarlisle It looks much better with \strut

David Carlisle

21:51

@JG It's a zero width rule the height and depth of the font baseline so that it exactly fills the vertical space on a line

J G

oh neat!

i have another latex question that i don't quite know how to google or ask about

When you do ratios or proportions in lower level math, you cross multiply

For example \frac{3}{4} = \frac{x}{10} you can draw a circle (or oval i suppose) around the 3 and and the 10 and then one around the 4 and the x. that signifiies to do 30 = 4x as we all know. how could i draw those ovals?

David Carlisle

@JG there are circled digit fonts or you could use any latex circle and over-print the digit \circle from picture env, or tikz or pstricks or...

Johannes_B

I guess simple arrows from the denominator to the numerator would be much easier to do.

J G

do you have any examples in mind or things i can google?

i can't even begin to picture how this might be done or what to be looking for

Johannes_B

Am I guessing right, that you want the 4 and the x in a single »oval«?

J G

21:57

yes @Johannes_B

David Carlisle

@JG oh in that case you probably want tikz or pstricks, tikz I know nothing about (I just got a sliver badge by bluffing) pstricks I knew quite a bit about last century, but I forget:-) Easiest is if you make a document with just the fractions, draw in the ovals in a paint program and ask on main site. It' will be pretty easy actually if you now anything about tikz at all (which rules me out:-)

J G

@DavidCarlisle I have dabbled in tikz but not so much recently. I would be very happy to implement a tikz solution

Johannes_B

I'm not a TikZ-pert either, but it shouldn't be too hard.

If you want to automate this, though, it's much harder

J G

@Johannes_B automate as in have some programmable solution, in contrast to say using paint?

Johannes_B

@JG exactly

David Carlisle

22:03

@JG this isn't math but shows hoe to put an oval around text:

5

Q: TikZ vertical alignment of circled text

I have an issue with the vertical alignment of circled text with TikZ. This basic code causes the problem I have. \texttt{some text here =} \tikz[remember picture] \node[draw,ellipse,fill=none,thick] (code) {\texttt{other text}}; The problem is that the displayed text 'some text here=' is ...

tikz-pgf

Johannes_B

If you want to do this multiple times, not knowing how big/long the denominator or numerator is

J G

@Johannes_B simple expressions like the one i just showed ...

thanks @DavidCarlisle that might be exactly along the lines of what i'm looking to do

David Carlisle

@JG you mean like this?

J G

@DavidCarlisle yes! (although smoother ovals, hopefully)

David Carlisle

@JG You are not impressed with my artistic mastery of MS Paint? :-)

Johannes_B

22:07

:-D

J G

@DavidCarlisle i'm not impressed with my own use of Paint! hahah

Johannes_B

Thanks guys, you were the first people making me laugh in days.

J G

:)

egreg

22:31

@DavidCarlisle Down with TikZ, go with Paint!

Paulo Cereda

@egreg :)

J G

Paint. Oh no. hahah

David Carlisle

@JG @egreg is already on record of being in awe of my Paint abilities

J G

ahahah

J G

22:54

@JosephWright you know how to do the type of expression that @DavidCarlisle showed above with the paint?

@DavidCarlisle do you mind if i copy that into a thread for a posting?

Henri Menke

Hello! Does anyone know, how the definitions of \textls in microtype.sty and letterspace.sty differ?

egreg

23:11

@HenriMenke I believe they are the same.

Henri Menke

@egreg Thanks. I just wondered if they differ, because when using letterspace.sty the letterspacing was correct and using microtype.sty it disappeared. Came out, that microtype.sty processes the draft option and omits letterspacing in that case, while letterspace.sty doesn't take draft into account.

J G

23:35

@egreg: are you still around?

i was just reading a thread you commented in once upon a time about the plus/minus symbol /pm : tex.stackexchange.com/questions/50792/a-better-pm-symbol

egreg

@JG What about it?

J G

@egreg If I may ask, I just don't follow the suggested alternatives. I don't mean I don't follow the code, I just don't follow which is the preferred one. That is, I don't follow the discussion itself

If it isn't too much trouble, for example, what is your concern about the original poster's \newcommand{\Mypm}? It looks ok to me

egreg

@JG I really don't like it. The + is squashed.

Good night all.

J G

do you have a preferred solution @egreg?

or was it to just avoid it? i couldn't tell what you meant

egreg

@JG \pm ;-)

J G

23:42

oh ok

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$TeX - LaTeX$ TeX, LaTeX and Friends