@DavidCarlisle an hour late, but happy new year!

@UlrikeFischer :-)

We still have nearly three hours to go, but since most of you will likely be asleep by then, or at least not staring at anything electronic, Happy New Year, and may 2023 be an improvement on 2022. "Peace in the world, or the world in pieces", to quote Tom Lehrer.

@barbarabeeton happy new year (nearly:-)

@barbarabeeton happy new year.

@DavidCarlisle and @UlrikeFischer -- Thank you.

Happy New Year!

Happy new year! 新年快乐！

Does anyone know why the first paragraph after \section{} has got no indent? (This doesn't trouble me I am just curious)

@youthdoo it has no indent because you are not loading the famous indentfirst package :)

Yes I know that package. Is this a habit of writing for some people?

@youthdoo Indenting paragraphs allows you to identify new paragraphs even if the line before happens to coincidently match the linewidth. For the first paragraph that's not really necessary as you already know that it is a new paragraph.

@samcarter brilliant package

Folks, I've seen this in a couple of places in PDF metainfo (obtained using pdfinfo).

Does that mean OS X is using TeX as a backend? If so, why does it advertise the fact?

@youthdoo you could as easily ask why the other paragraphs do have an indent, it's just custom and convention and varies from publisher to publisher

Also, Happy New Year.

@FaheemMitha no, the other way round

@DavidCarlisle The other way around?

@FaheemMitha some tex pipeline used hyperref then some mac pdf generator

I don't know anything about OS X, but this is in the context of someone annotating a PDF. Actually, at least 2 people.

@DavidCarlisle Well, it's unlikely these people were actually using TeX. There must be some kind of front end editing facility.

@FaheemMitha everybody uses tex

@DavidCarlisle Everybody? That's news to me.

@FaheemMitha if they don't use tex and emacs delete them from your contacts:-)

@DavidCarlisle That might be a little harsh.

@DavidCarlisle and such an elaborate documentation!

@FaheemMitha one user in this room uses tex; another user in this room uses tex, do some induction, hence everybody uses tex :)

@samcarter I don't think one is supposed to use induction that way.

@FaheemMitha :P

@DavidCarlisle psk, bloatware.

@DavidCarlisle oh ;-((

@FaheemMitha I gave seen the preview tool modifying pdf files by just opening the pdf and saving it in preview (no physical changes made). This runs the pdf through some quartz filter. Older versions had errors, so the line in fractions would disappear.

@barbarabeeton Not got a date yet. The defence committee has a couple of months to read it, and they might make suggestions for edits, in which case I have some time to fix/respond. Otherwise when they are satisfied we'll set a date.

@yo' NOM NOM NOM! Happy new year :D

Frohes Neues übrigens!

Ah, I have a problem with l3doc and its mechanism to \label functions :) It does unconditionally put doc/function// in front of the label. If you now document separate modules that have identically named functions you'll get duplicate labels... Off to some low-level l3doc hacking...

@daleif Is the preview tool some OS X thing? And similarly for the quartz filter?

@FaheemMitha Yes, Preview is the MacOS PDF viewer that comes with the OS. Quartz is the underlying system components that makes the MacOS have OS level PDF integration.

@AlanMunn I see. And TeX is in there somewhere, presumably.

@FaheemMitha No, TeX has nothing to do with it directly.

@AlanMunn Oh. Then why does TeX appear in the PDF files metainformation?

@FaheemMitha What I mean is that TeX can produce PDF files, and can use the MacOS pdf distiller but other than that, there's no direct connection between Quartz and TeX.

@AlanMunn and the PDFs also weren't initially created with TeX? I'd guess they were and then they made annotations in their viewer, the viewer changed the meta information while writing the annotations to the file...

@FaheemMitha But as @daleif mentioned, saving a file using Preview if it has been annotated will use the MacOS PDF framework and will add that meta data.

@FaheemMitha For example, a simple test document created by luatex gives the following pdfinfo: Creator: LaTeX with hyperref Producer: LuaTeX-1.15.0. If I annotate the file with Preview and save it, I get the following: Creator: LaTeX with hyperref Producer: macOS Version 12.6.2 (Build 21G320) Quartz PDFContext, AppendMode 1.1

@Skillmon Yes, that's what I meant. They are created by TeX, but there's no direct connection between TeX and Quartz. I hadn't read the context of the conversation completely.

@AlanMunn Ah. OK, I now know where that line comes from. The file these people annotated was a PDF file I annotated with TeX. And that file has Creator: LaTeX with hyperref.Then they annotated that file with OS X, and that line remained, but the Producer line (which in my case was Producer: pdfTeX-1.40.24), was replaced by some OS X stuff. Mystery, such as it is, solved.

Summary: the appearance of TeX came from my use of TeX, not their use of TeX. I doubt are many people out there who use TeX for annotation. Statistically insignificant, probably.

@UlrikeFischer who could we blame for this?

\__text_change_case_end:w #1\__text_change_case_result:n #2->\group_align_safe_
end: \exp_end: #2
#1<-
#2<-\xdef TF@DEFAULTTTFONT{TF@DEFAULTSYMBOLSFONT}

\group_align_safe_end: ->\if_int_compare:w `{=\c_zero_int }\fi:
! Missing control sequence inserted.

@DavidCarlisle people using \MakeUppercase{\xdef\noexpand\tf@@tmp{...}} ?

@UlrikeFischer oh so you spare @JosephWright this time?

@UlrikeFischer guess \uppercase here, #1 is just rm ...

@DavidCarlisle yes, it is clearly only used for csnames and similar, so programming. MakeUppercase looks quite wrong.

@UlrikeFischer just noticed you had already commented there:-)