@tjt263 Installation was the most difficult thing when I first learnt LaTeX. If I had known about Overleaf at that time, I would have been very happy!

@UlrikeFischer isn't there anything that can be done from the miktex side to remind users about the dual update? We see this problem so often. Most users does not even know there is a difference.

@daleif I tried: github.com/MiKTeX/miktex/issues/262

@UlrikeFischer :D

@daleif quite logically so: do you know any other tool you have to update twice in two different modes?

@yo' fmtutil-sys etc? But texlive changed the defaults recently to make it harder to get this wrong

@DavidCarlisle good point, there was updmap-sys as well. Would there be any issues in miktex if an admin update would automatically trigger a user update as well.

@daleif well on a "one user PC" it would be okay, but I don't think that it should be done if lots of users are involved - they probably wouldn't like it if the admin shrubs their personal style files.

@JosephWright @DavidCarlisle on a german list there was just a bit discussion about input normalization in luatex and I wonder if it would make sense to add something like this tex.stackexchange.com/a/229589/2388 to expl3 or some other place.

@UlrikeFischer of the miktex userbase what percentage is not single user systems?

@daleif no idea ;-).

how can i vanquish this tiny gap on the left? i.imgur.com/buUpXAb.png

@tjt263 The first gap is the first column in your tabular...

@PauloCereda it's not though

@tjt263 don't sent images of code (and code with \input). Nobody can try this without retyping everything.

The best bugs are the ones you've fixed in advance, i.e. "Please update to the latest version". :)

@UlrikeFischer ..i could crop it if that makes you feel better

@tjt263 Heck, do you even realize how rude this was?

@yo' it's alright i'm used to it

i don't expect anyone to go through and compile the whole thing. i figured someone would know how to remove the padding. the inputs are perfectly cropped by the way.

@egreg naturally a feature, not a bug

@DavidCarlisle What I said! ;-)

@tjt263 posting it in that form makes it impossibly difficult to guess what is happening

i was just about to say, i bet @DavidCarlisle can tell me from a quick glance

@tjt263 sorry? I can't test your code as it is to check where the spurious space is. But if you don't want help you don't have to provide code.

@tjt263 I think you misunderstood @yo'

@UlrikeFischer I thought luatex had a built in option for normalising input, or is that just xetex?

it's weird. if i remove \fontfamily{cmss} the negative space disappears

@DavidCarlisle that's only xetex (and there harfbuzz kicks in too) But you can test:

\documentclass{article}
\usepackage{l3pdf,fontspec}
\ExplSyntaxOn
\pdf_uncompress:
\ExplSyntaxOff
\setmainfont{TeX Gyre Heros}
\begin{document}
u^^^^0308 ü
\end{document}

This gives then <006E00F4>-278<026B> in the pdf.

Interestingly with harf mode one gets this, I wonder where the BDC is from:

1 0 0 1 148.712 707.125 Tm [<026B>]TJ
/Span<</ActualText<FEFF00FC>>>BDC
1 0 0 1 157.021 707.125 Tm [<026B>]TJ
EMC

are you guys talking about my thing or different thing altogether

@tjt263 That's entirely different

seems like my issue was the newline after \fontfamily{cmss} i just changed it to \fontfamily{cmss}% not expecting anything to change, but it worked for some reason. weird

@tjt263 well, if you add a space in the input you typically get a space in the output.

@UlrikeFischer I could test if I had tex:-)

@DavidCarlisle in the image the \fontfamily{cmss} was in the preamble.

@DavidCarlisle I forgot ;-)

@DavidCarlisle I didn't believe - that's why I asked for the real code ...

@JosephWright Frank made \InputIfFileExists robust -- and filehook fails again ;-(

@UlrikeFischer Yay!

@JosephWright we should get rid of this package ...

@UlrikeFischer Yes

@tjt263 it's not weird. It's a consequence of you not posting anything useful and expecting a useful answer. And then saying that you won't do even a slightest favour to someone willing to help you.

@JosephWright Yay

@PauloCereda You're not by any chance related to this duck are you?

@HaraldHanche-Olsen nope :)

Hello. How to make an horizontal space by \parindent amount?

@Sigur \hspace{\parindent}?

@TorbjørnT., I tried it, but didn't work. Let me tell that it is inside a parbox.

@Sigur \parindent is zero in a \parbox.

@TorbjørnT., ohhhh. Now it makes sense... lol

So, should I save it before open the box, right?

@Sigur Yeah, I guess so.

@TorbjørnT., I tried \let\oldparindent\parindent but the same.

Anyway, thanks. Don't worry. Soon we will discover why... lol.

@Sigur Try \newlength\oldparindent \setlength{\oldparindent}{\parindent}

@TorbjørnT., perfect!!!

Thanks a lot.

@Sigur -- Some document classes have \normalparindent so you could try \hspace{\normalparindent}.

@barbarabeeton, thanks. It works at least with amsart class.

@Sigur \let\oldparindent\parindent makes \oldparindent into an alias for the name of the container, not for its value. Thus \hspace{\oldparindent} is exactly the same as \hspace{\parindent}, which extracts the current value of the parameter.

@Sigur \makeatletter\@ifdefinable{\normalparindent}{\newlength\normalparindent}\makeatother and then \AtBeginDocument{\setlength\normalparindent{\parindent}}. This assumes that, if \normalparindent is defined, it is a length register.

@egreg, thanks for explanation. The alias part explain a lot to me.

Everyday I learn something new.

@barbarabeeton @JosephWright @DavidCarlisle I wonder please, do you capitalize B/brexit?

@yo' Yes: proper noun

@yo' E.g. bbc.co.uk/news/business-49487770 (current BBC main page!)

@JosephWright ok thanks!

Should one mention he's nervous because of Brexit when discussing a job opening for a distant job at a UK company? :-/

@yo' Work for us! Join me in Miami, Florida. My friend Dorian comes too, around Sunday.

I got a picture of him.

@yo' -- Capitalize when I'm being careful. (But sometimes I'm inclined to be sloppy.) Don't blame you for being a bit nervous.