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4:28 AM
If Knuth was developing a mobil app, every ten years, there would be an update looking like my.pcloud.com/publink/…
2 hours later…
6:30 AM
@tjt263 It works but it's awful :)
6:43 AM
@Canageek Since when do people here take the easy way out?
Clearly you are not masochistic enough (yet) for this site.
2 hours later…
8:27 AM
Is "Herr Professor Paulinho van Duck" a person or a gesalt entity?
@FaheemMitha a glove puppet, as seen here:
Jan 21 '17 at 18:53, by CarLaTeX
user image
@DavidCarlisle Glove puppets can't write TeX articles, as far as I know.
@FaheemMitha but @CarLaTeX can apparently type while wearing a duck on her hand
@DavidCarlisle That's an impressive trick.
@FaheemMitha I met him in person and can witness he's real.
9:09 AM
@egreg The Bär can witness too:
9:22 AM
@egreg So, is he a glove puppet, or a gesalt entity? Or neither?
9:43 AM
@egreg your comments here are as reliable as your answers on site
@DavidCarlisle That's perfectly true!
ooh ducks and bars
10:01 AM
> You Only Have Yourself to Blame If a Bird Attacks You
10:25 AM
user image
10:50 AM
@DavidCarlisle ooh
@PauloCereda ooh,hoo
@DavidCarlisle w = ooh, ww^R
! Missing $ inserted.
<inserted text>
<to be read again>
I had working code, and I changed it and now it doesn't work.
@DavidCarlisle blame Joseph, Phelype, Ulrike, Frank
@PauloCereda day job
11:02 AM
@DavidCarlisle ooh blame the intern
@DavidCarlisle I have some blame slots free ;-)
@UlrikeFischer ooh
@DavidCarlisle oho,oho
@UlrikeFischer this sounds like a typical Englishman
Pip pip tally ho
11:20 AM
@PauloCereda yes we say that a lot, we also fly around in open single seater planes.
@DavidCarlisle ooh monocles and top hats?
2 hours later…
1:17 PM
Hi, everyone!
@Levy Hi
@Levy 'ello
Is there a way to check if there is or there isn't text on a page in LaTeX?
I want to set a boolean that tells me true if a page has text on it or false if it is empty.
@Levy What's a page with no text? If you're numbering your pages in the header/footer, no pages will ever have no text.
@AlanMunn a page with nothing written on it. Let's say you have inside \begin{document} a lipsum text but in the middle of it you create a \newpage and you write nothing on it and then add more lipsum text. Can a boolean variable track blank pages like that? Or the opposite, page with some text written on it?
1:31 PM
@Levy I understand, but my point was that this notion of 'page with no text' means something more like 'page with no text in the main text area excluding the header/footer'
@Levy I'm (somewhat educatedly) guessing the answer is "No", but maybe someone else can either confirm or deny that guess.
Oh, ok, no problem. Thank you!
@Levy you need to be a lot more specific about when the test is made, eg if you test within the page body there may be no text but then the output routine could add floats so the resulting page is non-empty, or you could test within the output routine that the page is empty but then it is too late to use that test to affect anything in the page body or... What is your actual use case?
@Levy also are you just interested in forced page breaks (\newpage, \clearpage` etc) or also need to test automatic page breaks (which are less likely to result in empty pages)
1:51 PM
Well actually, I set a booleanvariable to true at the beginning of command, and at the end of if, it returns to false. But in the text produced by the command the last page is not affected by the boolean
I will try to produce a MWE
@Levy probably best to post as a question, chat format makes code level discussions hard
2:12 PM
Compiled with LuaLaTeX. You can see that the last page doesn't have a column separator.
For some reason, the variable I used don't work on it.
@Levy posting to the site would be better but I followed the link this once, you have the separator on the page hook, but the end of your biblechapter env doesn't force a page break so the \bibletexttrue will go out of scope at that point.
@Levy you are also missing lots of % from ends of lines in that code
@Levy also don't do this!!! \ifnum\c@bibleverse=1\else do \ifnum\c@bibleverse=1 \else
@Levy if your biblechapter ends 1/4 the way down column 1, and then the rest of column 1 and column2 have some other text, do you want your tikz column separator or not?
2:28 PM
@DavidCarlisle If it ends on the fist column there's no need for the separator, but if it ends at any point on the second column there must be a separator
@Levy but the code is not trying to implement that is it?
No. I don't know how to do that
@Levy =1\else will make tex expand \else before doing the test.
2 hours later…
4:20 PM
interesting question for all the TikZ nerds tex.stackexchange.com/q/500427/165801
1 hour later…
5:23 PM
@FaheemMitha Of course they can!
@DavidCarlisle Oooh a triple palindrome!
@CarLaTeX In that case, I need to get me some glove puppets, because I'm writing all my TeX code myself.
@FaheemMitha If you read his first article you see I'm helping him because it's a little difficult to type with a rounded beak!
@CarLaTeX That's nice of you.
@FaheemMitha Btw, did you read some of his articles? He is very interested in expert's opinion or constructive criticism
@CarLaTeX No, sorry.
5:32 PM
@FaheemMitha Oooh, what a pity :) If one day you have time to read them, let me know what you think about them
@CarLaTeX I'm sure many other people read them.
@FaheemMitha I hope so :)
Reading TeX articles is hard work.
As I just said in another room, I think Prof. Knuth invented TeX to distract people from getting actual work done. So far it's working.
@FaheemMitha But van Duck's ones are funny :)
@CarLaTeX I believe you.
5:36 PM
@FaheemMitha procrastination is a religion among TeX users :)
@CarLaTeX And Knuth is their prophet.
@FaheemMitha Of course!
Today, by chance, I have found out that among the available applications in my company's repository there are MiKTeX and TeXniccenter. Now I must find out which office uses them and ask to be moved there!
6:20 PM
Does TeX Live work pretty much the same way on Windows as it does on Unix-like systems?
@FaheemMitha yes, although I use the cygwin one which is even more unix-like
Including all the command line utilities?
Because historically MS Windows has not been particularly command line oriented.
@FaheemMitha yes but which ones, there is only really tlmgr plus the engines
@FaheemMitha I have Windows with TeX Live and it works perferctly
@DavidCarlisle Does it work well on Cygwin?
@DavidCarlisle tex, latex, lualatex etc.
6:22 PM
@FaheemMitha there is a cygwin specific build, that's been my main tex for years now
@FaheemMitha oh yes of course all of those,
@DavidCarlisle I see.
Why not just use a Unix-like system?
@FaheemMitha convenient to have a windows box for some things
@DavidCarlisle Ok. Personally I'd go with Windows in a virtual machine.
@DavidCarlisle soltarie
@FaheemMitha we use cygwin a lot anyway (the entire build pipeline for the windows products runs in cygwin)
6:26 PM
@DavidCarlisle Is that TeX work, or your day job?
@FaheemMitha day job
@FaheemMitha possibly wsl will replace cygwin in the end but currently cygwin is it
@FaheemMitha I use 'normal' Windows TL, works fine; MiKTeX also has a range of command line tools
@FaheemMitha LaTeX3 releases, and a number of LaTeX2e ones, are built on Windows :)
I tried using Cygwin many years ago. At the time it was quite immature. Perhaps less so now. Also it was very slow.
@JosephWright Is Windows your main OS, then?
6:29 PM
@FaheemMitha I use a very light toolbox (GOW) for Unix-like command line tools, though as @DavidCarlisle says WSL is attractive
@FaheemMitha Yes: I had a Mac, but it died and the costs have got ludicrous. Work is all Windows anyway, so I have to have a Windows VM at the least
@JosephWright You're a chemistry researcher? How is that OS-specific?
> Ex-Microsoft Worker Charged in Alleged Scheme To Steal $10M in Gift Cards and Use Funds To Finance Extravagant Purchases
@DavidCarlisle ^^
@FaheemMitha Various bits of software we use. In particular, I use a program called ChemDraw for figures. Those copy-paste into Word and stay editable, but only if you stick on one platform. So all-Windows or all-Mac (no ChemDraw for Linux anyway)
@JosephWright I see. I'd find that incredibly annoying. But c'est la vie.
@FaheemMitha Also, quite a number of programs for instrument (machine) control are Windows-only, so if I want to open the data files I have to have a Windows machine
6:32 PM
I think the TeX community in general is surprisingly OS-pragmatic.
@FaheemMitha For papers I write on my own, I use LaTeX so it's not an issue, but those are a small minority; usually it's collaborative, and that means ChemDraw, and Windows
@JosephWright But still LaTeX?
@FaheemMitha Huh? With other people its Word
@JosephWright Oh. Bummer. I had visions of your co-authors asking you for TeX help.
I thought Chemistry used TeX, though. Along with the other hard sciences, and math.
@FaheemMitha Ironically, the physicist I work with is really LaTeX-averse, so Word even there (where you see lots of LaTeX papers)
@FaheemMitha No. ChemDraw was first Mac-only (graphics and all that), so for many years chemistry was Mac-heavy. That dropped off around the time I took my PhD, but the Mac has made a comeback to some extent
6:35 PM
@JosephWright LaTeX-averse? For shame. Why?
@FaheemMitha He's never said, but the reality is that if you are collaborating with people, and you are able to go with their choice of tools, you do
I imagine Chemistry as lots of diagrams and symbols. With the odd PDE thrown in.
@FaheemMitha PDE?
@JosephWright Partial Differential Equation.
@FaheemMitha Lots of 'schemes' and 'figures' (these have somewhat specific meaning to me), almost all done in ChemDraw
6:36 PM
@JosephWright That's very forbearing of you. I detest word processors in general.
@FaheemMitha Only at the theoretical end (where LaTeX is more common)
@FaheemMitha chemists don't do math they just stir stuff round and look what colour it goes
@JosephWright So TeX can't do what ChemDraw does?
@FaheemMitha For a lot of short communications, you have to use the Word template
@DavidCarlisle Sounds like fun. Do they try to get things to explode too?
6:38 PM
@DavidCarlisle exploding things too
@FaheemMitha ^^^
@JosephWright ChemDraw?
@FaheemMitha That's quite an easy scheme: I'm not doing complex organic synthesis
@FaheemMitha Yes
With its own mini-language, I expect.
Sometimes called DSL.
@FaheemMitha Getting things to look right/professional is important, and doing it by scripting would be hard
@FaheemMitha They have an XML format for saving files, though that seems to have never taken off, but the key is in the draw part of the name
6:40 PM
@JosephWright I see.
@JosephWright two chemists went to a bar. One said, I want H20. The other said, I want H20 too. And he died.
I was assuming that ChewDraw runs on scripting, but I realise that's a poor assumption.
@FaheemMitha ^^ Business end
@PauloCereda Hah!
@JosephWright :D
@FaheemMitha There's some scripting in the 'Ultra' edition, I think, for database searches and the like, but our work license covers only the core drawing tools
6:43 PM
Menus, ugh. Like GIMP. But at least GIMP offers scripting.
At least two different engines.
@FaheemMitha Menus not that important: the tools floating on the left, plus some keyboard shortcuts, are the vital bit. (For example, 0 adds one bond where the cursor is ...)
@JosephWright That's what I meant. Pointy-clicky things.
Random musings - I've wondered how much you can deduce about an element from just knowing its atomic structure. E.g. mercury. Could one figure out it was silvery and liquid at room temperatures just from calculations?
@PauloCereda What's a pirate's favourite nucleic acid? rDNA
@AlanMunn LOL
@FaheemMitha Like I said, draw; doing simple rings and chains is OK without a visual aid, but getting more complicated structures right does take a lot of work. For example, structure 6 has a core part that I drew about 10 years ago and have stuck with: getting it right is hard.
@FaheemMitha Yes, more or less, at least if one uses a sufficiently high level of theory
@FaheemMitha Harder is predicting crystal packing
6:47 PM
@JosephWright Sufficiently high?
@FaheemMitha Balance between complexity and computational cost
@JosephWright Oh.
@FaheemMitha I'd like use something like CASTEP for this: solid-state DFT, probably using 'coupled cluster' theory
@JosephWright I think you've lost us all with this line. :)
Discrete Fourier Transform?
6:49 PM
@AlanMunn It's my day-job, sorry
@JosephWright one on't cross beams gone owt askew on treddle.
@AlanMunn ^^
@FaheemMitha Density Functional Theory: one very popular way of doing computation on condensed matter
Would it use stuff like the Schrodinger equation? I suppose one can do better these days.
@JosephWright Oh
@FaheemMitha Fundamentally, unless one is doing heavy atoms, yes: mercury has relativistic effects
@JosephWright Huh?
6:50 PM
@FaheemMitha DFT uses the fact that electron density is what is important for chemistry
@JosephWright Yes, I see.
Relativity is only important when things are moving really fast.
@FaheemMitha Mercury is big and heavy. So the electrons at the outside of a mercury atom have to move fast (using a classical model). They approach the speed of light, so relatively gets important.
So has anyone actually sat down and calculated that mercury would be silver? Just for example.
@JosephWright Approach the speed of light? Really?
Wow. I never thought about that.
@FaheemMitha More interesting is gold: it's golden because of relativity, basically
@FaheemMitha Something like 85%, yes
@JosephWright Oh.
6:52 PM
@FaheemMitha This is my day-job :)
@JosephWright ooh planets
@JosephWright Yes, I'm aware (and you said).
@FaheemMitha i meant more specifically, I've done some computational modelling on gold systems
I didn't think relativistic theory was important in modelling elements.
I thought it was something you worry about with strong gravitational fields. Or things moving very fast.
@FaheemMitha I don't do anything like the code development, I'm just an end user, but it's in the descriptions of various set-ups I use
6:54 PM
Though I've heard that relativistic effects are important in networks these days. Atomic/network timekeeping, wireless networks, that kind of thing.
@JosephWright I think I read once an article saying that tea gets lighter when you put lemon in it because of quantum effects ;-)
@FaheemMitha Like I said, the size of electron shells means heavy atoms do have this
@UlrikeFischer Oooh
@JosephWright Yes, I understand.
@UlrikeFischer ooh
6:58 PM
@JosephWright A bit too technical for me. But do I understand correctly that the subject is binding CO (carbon monoxide) with Au (gold)?
Or some gold isotope, anyway.
For some reason, people love writing scientific stuff in Fortran.
@FaheemMitha Yup
@FaheemMitha No FORTRAN here ... or at least none I've written
That CASTEP thing.
Q: Why is fortran used for scientific computing?

user782220I've read that Fortran is still heavily used for scientific computing. For code already heavily invested in Fortran this makes sense to me. But is there a reason to use Fortran over other modern languages for a new project? Are there language design decisions in Fortran that makes it much more s...

@DavidCarlisle Your day job?
7:03 PM
Dayjob intersections. @DavidCarlisle @JosephWright do you need any linguists? :)
@AlanMunn For your sake, I hope you don't have to write Fortran in your day job.
@FaheemMitha nag's day job, not my bit of it, but NAG is almost all Fortran.
I saw some Fortran code once. I don't think that's a language I could ever learn to love.
@FaheemMitha No, my Fortran writing days are behind me. Now mainly R or Python, although I don't do much of either (and I prefer Ruby, but software I use is written in Python.)
@AlanMunn I've heard good things about Ruby. But it doesn't have a big user base, relatively speaking. I also hear it's less sugary than Python.
7:06 PM
@AlanMunn no my linguistic capabilities are legendary so no need for another linguist, sorry:-)
@DavidCarlisle Damn.
One of my favourite moments was when I wrote a FORTRAN parser. <3
@DavidCarlisle ooh
7:20 PM
I would like to ask you for your opinion as to whether you should leave or delete this answer of mine if it is useful or not, as it is not welcome. Thank you for your reply.
@Sebastiano ?
A: Stylized punctuation marks for mathematical formulas

SebastianoADDENDUM: a) Here there is the .tex guide of zed.sty documentation indicated by great user David Carlisle: http://www.dmi.usherb.ca/~frappier/ift734/devoirs/zed.tex; b) For Z specifications in LaTeX there is a question to find the comma: https://stackoverflow.com/questions/3076840/z-specificati...

@Sebastiano it doesn't answer the question
Sorry for the delay of the link but right now I'm with an acute cervical and with tachycardia. In a couple of minutes I'm going to bed :-(
I'm going to erase it right now. Thank you very much.
@Sebastiano the OP had already told you that, why do you need to ask here?
7:26 PM
For safety, since Zarko asked me not to eliminate it, since it contained useful information.
@Sebastiano it has information about Z but the Op wanted a comma and Z doesn't have a styled comma.
I have deleted it. I wish you and other users a good night. Ciao
3 hours later…
@DavidCarlisle ? is there an issue somewhere or only because of the miktex question?
@UlrikeFischer the texinputs thing:-)
@DavidCarlisle ah ok. I just answered - a simple question of looking in the miktex docu ...
@UlrikeFischer it's probably easier to do that if you have miktex, unless the documentation is available on that interweb thing
@DavidCarlisle I always forget that the docu is also on my pc ;-) I always look in the internet.
10:14 PM
@DavidCarlisle Looked again at building the dev format .. rotex.tex problematic even if I force things by creating an updated pdfLaTeX format on my system ...
10:25 PM
@JosephWright so with a dev format? I'd need to update epstopdf...
@DavidCarlisle it obviously breaks because of the quotes, but there are a lot of \Gin@base in the epstopdf-base.sty ;-(
@DavidCarlisle but it is in oberdiek ...
@UlrikeFischer yes but that's OK just need to redefine gin@base without the quotes (there or better in graphics.sty
@DavidCarlisle but aren't then quotes needed somewhere in epstopdf?
@UlrikeFischer in all the zzz.def files as well, that's why I keep putting off doing it, but ....
@UlrikeFischer really only know whether you need "cat" or "cat.eps" or "cat".eps or {cat.eps} in the driver-specific parts so it would be better in the end if the core normalized the filenames without quotes, But it requires lots of small changes in lots of places
@DavidCarlisle yes, that is what I meant. looking through epstopdf-base it is not really obvious where quotes are needed.
10:37 PM
@UlrikeFischer but if we remove them, space-less filenames like cat work again and filenames with spaces deserve no sympathy can be fixed as needed.
@DavidCarlisle that is a plan ;-)

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