12:11 AM
hello friends. Is it possible to change the background color only of the contents page in report class? I tried to use the tikz approach with overlay in the definition of the \tableofcontents, but I got a missing item error.

@Sigur \pagecolor{red}\tableofcontents\pagecolor{white} ?

12:26 AM
@DavidCarlisle, thanks. Almost. Since I want the contents at last page, the red page was the previous one. I also tried {\clearpage\pagecolor{red}\tableofcontents}\pagecolor{white}, but in this case, the previous one is white but the contents page too.
@DavidCarlisle, nice! It was simpler: \tableofcontents\pagecolor{red}\end{document}

@Sigur \cleardoublepage\pagecolor{red}\tableofcontents

@egreg, hello. Interesting. But \cleardoublepage\pagecolor{red}\color{white}\tableofcontents prints section page numbers in black. How to change everything to white in contents? (by the way, I'm trying to do a back cover of a journal, so with contents on it)

1:02 AM
@Sigur \makeatletter\color{white}\let\default@color\current@color should work (xcolor may have a syntax around that, it's just setting \normalcolor to the current color, which is what happens at \begin{document} normally)

@DavidCarlisle, thanks a lot. It solves the color problem.

@Sigur phew I'm always a little scared of \pagecolor:-) When I wrote it it basically didn't work anywhere as the driver support was lacking, and I only had a monochrome screen so testing the support that was there was a bit tricky....

@DavidCarlisle, for now it is working very well. The black line I inserted with tikz.

2 hours later…
3:09 AM
@FaheemMitha (and @@TeXnician) -- Re understanding Goethe's prose/poetry, yes, it's understandable to a modern student of German. (Having also studied Mittel- and Althochdeutsch and Gotisch, I can readily say that it's much closer to modern German than Chaucer or even Shakespeare is to modern English.)
@AlanMunn -- A very large box, I think.

3 hours later…
6:10 AM
Hi guys and gals.
I found another bug. Someone broke \LaTeX when both luatexja and microtype is present: gist.github.com/wilx/4275632b7240a43044a9c06013a6b1c1

2 hours later…
7:49 AM
@wilx neither the microtype nor luatexja developers are here though... (I get no space in a texlve2019 updated yesterday)
\documentclass{article}
\usepackage{fontspec}
\usepackage{luatexja-fontspec}
\usepackage{microtype}

\begin{document}
\LaTeX
\end{document}
@wilx no need to make people follow a link to a gist ^^
I get

8:16 AM
ooh

8:59 AM
@wilx I get the space with luatexja updated this morning along with
Package luatexja Warning: LuaTeX-ja's patch against the microtype package
(luatexja)                (lltjp-microtype.sty, 2019-11-08) may not work.
@wilx so the luatex-ja developers ought to be able to track that pretty quickly

@DavidCarlisle ooh a patch

9:50 AM
@DavidCarlisle Where are we on PR1? Send now? Or wait until Thursday?

10:14 AM
@JosephWright now I think (but probably let Frank have final say)
@wilx do you want to report it, or I could, here is I think the place osdn.net/ticket/newticket.php?group_id=5593 (unless @UlrikeFischer broke it in luaotfload?)

@DavidCarlisle ooh da boss
@DavidCarlisle ooh blame

@PauloCereda pre-emptive avoidance of blame for any decisions
@PauloCereda ditto

@DavidCarlisle well it worked before the luatexja update, so I think it wasn't us ;-). But I must say I constantly fear to break their stuff - we have only one small test file for luatexja and so when I see some update saying "adapt luatexja to new luaotfload" I have a bad concience and wonder if we should have catched it ;-).

10:29 AM
@DavidCarlisle :)

@wilx @UlrikeFischer I'll put something in their bug tracker

@DavidCarlisle thanks, I'm currently not at home and can't reach the tracker.

1 hour later…
11:57 AM
@egreg still waiting for your "but"...

12:14 PM
@Skillmon That's abusing the allocation mechanism.

I just wanted to mention that the dimen is not set to 0pt, the register was initialized that way, but there is no guarantee that after doing a \newdimen the register is 0pt if there was any very bad code involved. But you stated:
> TeX allocates a new register number and sets it to 0pt.

@egreg thanks.

12:31 PM
@egreg thanks, love the new version (especially the closing remarks).
@egreg deleted my comment.

1:11 PM
@wilx @UlrikeFischer luatexja is showing Resolution Update from None to Fixed
@egreg we should blame you.
-     \xdef\MT@font@list{\MT@font@list\MT@font,}
+     \xdef\MT@font@list{\MT@font@list\MT@font,}%

@DavidCarlisle I just wanted to show the picture too ;-)

1:54 PM
@UlrikeFischer pdfatfi

@DavidCarlisle ?

@UlrikeFischer try it:-)

@DavidCarlisle it breaks. But if I get the attachfile2 docu right it is unneeded nowadays anyway.
@DavidCarlisle why did you try it?

@UlrikeFischer yes seems like it's not used since pdftex 1.3 but it is broken now because the ho-tex oberdiek support group copyright line got added without a comment marker (as it didn't have a % comment prefix....)
@UlrikeFischer I was looking at epstopdf which imports pdftexcmds which has duplicated oberdiek.pdftexcmds.lua and pdftexcmds.lua which caused me to look at the scripts directory where pdfatfi.pl is and I accidentally looked at it...

@DavidCarlisle since when it is broken?

2:09 PM
@UlrikeFischer last week (I think)

@DavidCarlisle probably not long enough to be sure that nobody cares ;-)

@UlrikeFischer I'll pull attachfile2 out as well as epstopdf for the next release and fix it there I guess
@UlrikeFischer another dragon steak for you.

@DavidCarlisle ;-). I should really look at attachfile2 and embedfile.

2:29 PM
@DavidCarlisle Yes, I didn't pay attention. ;-)

2 hours later…
4:10 PM
Is it correct that \usepackage[T1]{fontenc} and \usepackage{fontspec} are incompatible? Because I have a file with both. So it may be a error.

@FaheemMitha last I heard fontenc should not be used in a document that used fontspec

@FaheemMitha Well fontspec is for Unicode fonts, which are not T1 encoded ...

@daleif Yes, that's what I thought. This file uses Devanagri fonts, which would have to be either xetex or luatex.
So that means fontenc is out, right?

@UlrikeFischer Ok. So no fontenc in this case.

4:15 PM
@FaheemMitha it doesn't hurt (but doesn't have much use either normally) unless you load it to late.

This file was working May 2018, presumably. Since that is its commit date.
But isn't working now. I have a shortened version. Should I post it here, or directly on the site?

@FaheemMitha it's not that the packages are incompatible, just (almost) no times they should be used together T1 encoding should only be used with classic Tex and fontspec can not be used with classic tex.

@DavidCarlisle Understood.

@FaheemMitha if you load it after fontspec, then you get what you ask for, a default T1 encoding and then things either silently do the wrong thing (eg all hyphenation will be wrong in xetex) or not work at all (as the fonts loaded are not available in legacy encodings)

@DavidCarlisle Silently wrong is bad. Isn't it possible to introduce some kind of warning if both are being loaded manually?

4:22 PM
@FaheemMitha as I say it is unrelated to fontspec
\documentclass{article}
\usepackage[T1]{fonenc}
\begin{document}
hello
\end{document}
@FaheemMitha ^^^ is already wrong in xetex

@DavidCarlisle Yes, I got that. Anyway, warnings, if possible, are helpful.

@egreg Please, would it be wrong to hack into \thebibliography here for redefinition of \VAN?
32

A working scheme seems to be \documentclass{article} \usepackage[authoryear]{natbib} \usepackage{hyperref} % #1: sorting key, #2: prefix for citation, #3: prefix for bibliography \DeclareRobustCommand{\VAN}[3]{#2} % set up for citation \begin{document} \citet{vannoort} \citet{other} \bibliogr...

@FaheemMitha but warnings are tricky as in that case (using english) it is not wrong as the hyphenation patterns only use ascii characters, so if you warned then perhaps the majority of warnings would be on documents with unwise markup but acceptable results, not to mention almost all the tests in the latex test suite would fail.

@DavidCarlisle and the last argument is the main one ;-)

@DavidCarlisle I realise it's tricky. That's why I said "if possible".
I'll just post the document here. It's quite short.
And if needed, I'll post it on the site.
\documentclass[12pt]{scrartcl}

% INTERNATIONALIZATON STUFF

\usepackage{fontspec}

% The polyglossia package lets us easily use several languages.
\usepackage{polyglossia}

% Define the used fonts. Replace Nakula and XITS by your font choice.
\newfontfamily\devanagarifont[Script=Devanagari]{Nakula}
%\newfontfamily\devanagarifont[Script=Devanagari]{Chandas}
%\newfontfamily\englishfont[Script=Latin]{XITS}
\newfontfamily\englishfont[Script=Latin]{xits-regular.otf}

4:38 PM
@FaheemMitha making warnings is easy, not annoying people by making warnings on documents that have been warning free for a decade with possibly acceptable results is harder.

That's mostly copied from some text on the site. I don't really understand what it's about. And when I wrote this last year, I was in a hurry, relatively speaking.
This errors out with both XeLaTeX and LuaLaTeX, but it gives different errors.
Should I post it on the site?

@FaheemMitha running it now, but long pause with xelatex probably going to say I don't have the fonts

With XeLateX I get:

@FaheemMitha that's odd. it still hasn't finished... what error do you get with xelatex?

! Package fontspec Error: The font "xits-regular" cannot be found.

For immediate help type H <return>.
...

l.16 \newfontfamily
\englishfont[Script=Latin]{texgyreschola-regular.otf}

4:41 PM
@FaheemMitha oh well that's easy, install xits fonts then

I think I was using XeTeX in 2018, because that's what is on the Emacs file.
@DavidCarlisle I think they're already installed.

@FaheemMitha xetex doesn't think so, and it's more believable than you, sorry:-)

Oh, hmm. Looks like the name of the font file changed.

@FaheemMitha I get:
\$ fc-list xits
/usr/local/texlive/2018/texmf-dist/fonts/opentype/public/xits/XITS-Italic.otf: XITS:style=Italic
/usr/local/texlive/2018/texmf-dist/fonts/opentype/public/xits/XITS-BoldItalic.otf: XITS:style=Bold Italic
/usr/local/texlive/2018/texmf-dist/fonts/opentype/public/xits/XITS-Bold.otf: XITS:style=Bold
/usr/local/texlive/2018/texmf-dist/fonts/opentype/public/xits/XITS-Regular.otf: XITS:style=Regular

@DavidCarlisle Yes, that's what I get too.

4:44 PM
hmm which means I never updated my fc-config for 2019, so it works, but only by accident

Is there some way to avoid specifying the file name?
So, if I change that line to:
\newfontfamily\englishfont[Script=Latin]{XITS-Regular.otf}
then I get the error:
! LaTeX3 Error: Command '\englishfont' already defined!
Is that because I have the two lines:

@FaheemMitha hardly surprising since it is defined on the previous line.

\newfontfamily\englishfont[Script=Latin]{XITS-Regular.otf}
\newfontfamily\englishfont[Script=Latin]{texgyreschola-regular.otf}
?
@DavidCarlisle So I should get rid of one of them?

@FaheemMitha yes of course, what do you expect to happen if you define the same command with two definitions?

@DavidCarlisle Ok, but I'm not sure which one to keep. Because the original file had both.

4:49 PM
@yo' No, of course not.

The line:
\newfontfamily\englishfont[Script=Latin]{XITS}
is still failing, though. Why do I need to specify the font file? Or am I using the wrong syntax?

@FaheemMitha no it could not have had both without error. It's your choice, do you want the document to be set in xits (a times roman-ish clone) or in tex gyre schola (a new century schoolbook clone) it can not be set in two fonts at the same time

@DavidCarlisle Ok. Got it. I usually go with New Century, so I'll stick with that.
How about having to specify the file?

@FaheemMitha the filename always works whether you can use the internal font name, depends on various system dependent things such as how fontconfig is configured and whether the fonts are installed system wide (the easiest) or just in the texlive font tree.
@FaheemMitha see fontspec manual section 2 for gory details

@DavidCarlisle I think gory here really does mean gory.
\newfontfamily\englishfont[Script=Latin]{TeX Gyre Schola}
works. Would that be using the regular font by default?

4:58 PM
@FaheemMitha yes

@DavidCarlisle Thank you. Sorry, I wasn't able to pay attention to the chat during the day.

@FaheemMitha fontspec is trying to offer a consistent syntax across luatex and xetex (which have different font loading syntax) and each of luatex and xetex are trying to offer consistent font loading over windows/mac/linux which have fundamentally different system font handling technology, it is not surprising if it is impossible to hide all the details from the user all of the time.
@wilx turned out it was just a missing % and they fixed it in less time than it took me to find the bug reporting address:-)

Hehe.

5:12 PM
@egreg ok thanks, I was just making sure I don't miss anything.

@DavidCarlisle Ok. Thank you.
Do XeTeX and LuaTeX currently give significantly different results with Devanagri?
I guess I can try them both and see. Assuming they both compile.

@FaheemMitha xetex and luatex yes, xetex and luahbtex probably no.

@UlrikeFischer Can I use luahbtex in TeX Live 2019? Is that an option?

@FaheemMitha yes, if your texlive is up-to-date you can use lualatex-dev and it will use luahbtex.

@UlrikeFischer It's probably not that up to date. You mean lualatex is luahbtex in sufficently recent versions of TeX Live?

5:23 PM
@FaheemMitha lualatex-dev, lualatex is still based on luatex.

@UlrikeFischer My installation doesn't have a binary called lualatex-dev.

@FaheemMitha then your system is not up-to-date. lualatex-dev is quite new (and luahbtex is even newer, it was installed a week ok or so).

Is there no luahblatex?

@wilx there was one, but now it has been mapped to lualatex-dev. The plan is that in texlive 2020 lualatex should use the new engine, and it is better not to confuse people by propagating luahblatex now. But if you want one, it is easy to add.

@UlrikeFischer I just wanted to see it. lualatex-dev is fine for me.

5:31 PM
@wilx you can test the difference e.g. with
\documentclass{article}
\usepackage{fontspec}
\setmainfont{NotoSansDevanagari-Regular.ttf}[Renderer=Harfbuzz,Script=Devanagari]
\setsansfont{NotoSansDevanagari-Regular.ttf}[Script=Devanagari]

\begin{document}
संयुक्त व्यंजन

\sffamily

संयुक्त व्यंजन
\end{document}

@UlrikeFischer It's the Debian packages from June 2019. So not that new.

@UlrikeFischer Nice.

But there aren't more recent Debian packages, currently.

5:46 PM
@FaheemMitha well, there is a reason why using distro texlive is not recommended...

@yo' What's the reason?

@FaheemMitha well, that the distro is frozen in often quite an old version. If you need up-to-date features, you shall opt for vanilla

@yo' It's not that old. It's 2019. Which, for the most part, is fine.
Norbert packages up the most recent TeX Live every few months.
I suppose if Debian didn't have TeX Live packages, I wouldn't have a choice but to use upstream. And maybe that will happen one day.

@FaheemMitha yeah. I'm just saying

@UlrikeFischer Nice

6:12 PM
@yo' I take it you use upstream?

@FaheemMitha well, currently I use Overleaf (for obvious reasons), so TL18 :)

@yo' You even use Overleaf locally? I don't really know what that is.
I thought it was some online Tex thing.

@FaheemMitha well, it is an online TeX thing. I use the same version as Overleaf, as I want to be compatible.
(and please note I work there, so it may make even more sense...)

@yo' I see. So it's not a TeX distribution then.
@yo' Yes, I remember.

@FaheemMitha no, it's all the things around it; there's TeXlive inside.

6:22 PM
@yo' Ok.

6:49 PM
My file won't compile in LuaTeX. I get:
nput line 11
nput line 11
nput line 11
input line 11
input line 11
! Undefined control sequence.
l.58 \newXeTeXintercharclass
I didn't intentionally define anything XeTeX-specific.
But in any case, I guess I need to use XeTeX for now?

@FaheemMitha Seems like a bug, if it happens in a package. MWE?

7:07 PM
@PhelypeOleinik quite a number of polyglossia languages are still xetex-only.

@UlrikeFischer Oh. Didn't know that :-)
A more comprehensive error message would be nice, I think
@UlrikeFischer I suppose LuaHBTeX improves the situation, right?

@PhelypeOleinik no, not directly but it will perhaps put a bit pressure to find some lua-substitutes for the intercharclass code, as now there is no longer the excuse that the fonts don't work anyway and that it is not worth the trouble.

@PhelypeOleinik Shall I post it here?

@FaheemMitha See Ulrike's comment above: the language you want probably doesn't have support for LuaTeX yet
@FaheemMitha But post it anyway :-)

\documentclass[12pt]{scrartcl}

% INTERNATIONALIZATON STUFF

\usepackage{fontspec}

% The polyglossia package lets us easily use several languages.
\usepackage{polyglossia}

% Define the used fonts. Replace Nakula and XITS by your font choice.
\newfontfamily\devanagarifont[Script=Devanagari]{Nakula}
%\newfontfamily\devanagarifont[Script=Devanagari]{Chandas}
% \newfontfamily\englishfont[Script=Latin]{XITS}
% \newfontfamily\englishfont[Script=Latin]{xits-regular.otf}
@PhelypeOleinik I posted essentially the same document, with some minor differences, earlier in the chat. I'm using Tex Live 2019. The Debian package.

7:24 PM
@FaheemMitha With your MWE (I replaced Nukula bu Noto Sans) I get:
Package polyglossia Warning: Sanskrit is not supported with LuaTeX.
(polyglossia)                I will proceed with the compilation, but
(polyglossia)                the output is not guaranteed to be correct
(polyglossia)                and may look very wrong. on input line 6.
@FaheemMitha Sorry, I didn't see that. I'm not having too much time to keep up with the chat recently
@FaheemMitha No error though...

@PhelypeOleinik Interesting. Does that mean you have a more recent version than me?

@PauloCereda -- Yes, I knew that, but it was fun to see all the comments. The one I like best is "So corks are made from bark like wool is made from sheep?"

@FaheemMitha Possibly. I updated earlier today

@PhelypeOleinik I have LuaTeX 1.10

@barbarabeeton ooh :)

7:27 PM
@FaheemMitha So do I. The issue here is most likely the polyglossia version (mine is v1.46 -- 2019/11/15)

@PhelypeOleinik How do I find my polyglossa version?

@FaheemMitha texdoc polyglossia (or \listfiles, probably)
@PauloCereda Hello, Mr. Duck :-)

@PhelypeOleinik 2019/04/04 v1.44 here

@FaheemMitha That might explain

@PhelypeOleinik ooh hi mr. engineer (")>/

7:30 PM
@PauloCereda I felt important now :-)

@PhelypeOleinik ooh :)

@FaheemMitha Commit dated Sep 14th: github.com/reutenauer/polyglossia/commit/…

8:37 PM
@PhelypeOleinik Oh. Quite recent then.
Have you tested it with any actual Devanagari?

@FaheemMitha Yes, the highlighted change fixes that error you showed (possibly others may occur)
@FaheemMitha No. I know very little (to be generous) about these scripts. Anything other than the latin alphabet really

@PhelypeOleinik OK.
Just asked a question on Emacs SE about AUCTeX. Which was promptly closed.

@FaheemMitha If you give me some file I can test it for you

Ok. Give it to you how? Would email work?
I don't want to paste my sample file publicly, and I don't have the time to write a test one from scratch.

@FaheemMitha Oh. e-mail is fine, but sure you want to send it to me?

8:47 PM
@PhelypeOleinik It's fine. It's not really sensitive or anything. But still not something that I want to post publicly. And obviously, don't post it publicly either. I might do some anonymizing.

@FaheemMitha Of course. My gmail is phe <dot> h <dot> o1

@PhelypeOleinik Ok. I'll send you a test mail right now.
Though that can't be correct as written. No "at".
Should the first "dot" be an "at"?

@FaheemMitha Append "at gmail.com"

@PhelypeOleinik Oh, right. Sorry.
@PhelypeOleinik Email sent.

9:00 PM
Good evening to all my friend into chat. A big and strong huge.
@DavidCarlisle Most kind David I have updated MikTeX via the console and mathastex has been updated. A few days ago I told the author about the problem via email but I still haven't gotten an answer. A very warm greeting.

@Sebastiano but he looked at the problem and even opened an issue at the latex github - at the core of the error was an amsmath bug. When amsmath is updated it should be fine again.

@UlrikeFischer oh I hadn't traced that back to chat here:-)
@FaheemMitha you need luahbtex (don't use luatex)

@DavidCarlisle ;-). I had looked a bit at the error and knew that it is a amsmath problem so it was easy to make the connection.

@DavidCarlisle Not available for my version of TeX Live 2019.
Debian packages as of June 2019.

@DavidCarlisle you should show an example ;-)

9:14 PM
Will this at some point become plain LuaTeX?

@FaheemMitha sorry but this question doesn't make much sense.

@FaheemMitha well no it only went in to upstream texlive last week
@FaheemMitha you meant "luatex" there not "plain as in plain tex" luatex, I think.

@UlrikeFischer What doesn't make sense? I'm asking whether what you are currently calling luahbtex or luatex-dev will eventually become plain luatex.
Or substitute latex for tex in all of the above.
@DavidCarlisle Well, lualatex, if you prefer.

@FaheemMitha probably not, the situation is likely to be similar to tex and pdfetex, in that tex and pdfetex are separate binaries but "latex" is based on pdfetex not tex. so from 20202 there will be luatex and luahbtex , but just a single lualatex, which will be based on luahbtex

These things are all executable programs, right?

9:19 PM
@DavidCarlisle Of course, no-one really is in charge

@FaheemMitha yes but luatex texlua lualatex etc are all the same executable and "plain" refers to a macro set
@JosephWright I decided not to mention that:-)

@DavidCarlisle So you're saying there will be two engines called LuaTeX and LuaHBTeX? But the lualatex executable will use the LuaHBTeX engine?

@FaheemMitha yes (most likley)

@DavidCarlisle Oh. Then why keep the LuaTeX engine around?

@FaheemMitha it is possible that luahbtex becomes the new luatex but I suspect not.
@FaheemMitha for the same reason that there is still a tex executable that isn't just etex or pdftex in dvi mode

9:22 PM
@DavidCarlisle And you are talking about "plain" TeX here?

@FaheemMitha that is even less clear. Let me phrase it another way.

@DavidCarlisle Well, er, it's only broadly true

So two LuaLaTeX versions? But only one LuaTeX version?

@DavidCarlisle I mean, I write the .ini files ...

@JosephWright I kind of thought you were in charge.
You seem to be all over the place, at any rate.

9:24 PM
there are currently two executables luatex and luahbtex, if luatex is dropped and luahbtex is renamed to luatex, things look as now, but with harfbuzz, but...

@FaheemMitha Honestly, no-one is in charge of plain formats beyond tex

@JosephWright I meant more generally.

... if they remain as two executables, the lualatex format will definitely use luahbtex, the plain tex format is less clear, as @JosephWright says we could make that use luahbtex as well but it isn't so clear if we should or whether there should be two plain tex formats luatex and luahbtex

@DavidCarlisle Ok.

@DavidCarlisle While Hans et al. want to produce LuaTeX, I think we stick to things as-is

9:26 PM
HarfBuzz is a funny name.

@JosephWright yes

@JosephWright Want to produce? How do you mean?

@FaheemMitha so is Tex and so is python

@DavidCarlisle Personally I find HarfBuzz funnier than TeX. And somehow I don't find Python funny at all. Perhaps because it is a familiar English word.

@FaheemMitha Hans is still maintaining luatex, so it might be thought ungreatful to rename luahbtex 9an extension he doesn't maintain directly) to be called luatex.
@FaheemMitha but python is explicitly named after a TV comedy show so is by intention funny

9:28 PM
As in a big snake. Or British comedy. As suits one's taste.
@DavidCarlisle Well, the comedy might be funny, but I don't find the word Python itself particularly so. I guess we just have different things that tickle our funny bone.
@DavidCarlisle I see.

@UlrikeFischer I thank you for your very cordial response and notice. Thanks again and I always wish you the best.

@FaheemMitha HarfBuzz (loose transliteration of Persian حرف‌باز harf-bāz, meaning “open type”)

@DavidCarlisle Yes, I'm aware it's of Persian origin.
Can't read Persian. Could read Urdu a little bit, once. I taught myself. Apparently they have different alphabets, despite appearances.

@FaheemMitha I vaguely remembered it was something, the above is the first line of its wikipedea entry:-)

@JosephWright still problems with the deployment?

9:31 PM
@UlrikeFischer Only one: I seem to have the key wrong, I'll ask @MarcelKrüger to fix that ;)
@UlrikeFischer Doing a build manually

@JosephWright what was the source of the problem?

@JosephWright @UlrikeFischer and I have the travis cli script as well:-)

@UlrikeFischer It's the \askforoverwrite issue, plus some interaction between different parts of the bundling: I've sorted it using a clean-up approach
@DavidCarlisle Sure: feel free to fix the deployment key!

@DavidCarlisle yes, but I have already forgotten how I used it ;-(

@DavidCarlisle I did generate the key using it, I think, but clearly it's not right: the script itself is right now, so it is just he upload key that needs fixing

9:40 PM
If one has to describe the family of things that "lualatex" and "pdflatex" and "xelatex" belong to, what would you use. Engines? LaTeX formats? TeX formats? Something else?

@FaheemMitha Engines + format, since LaTeX is a format, but XeTeX is an engine...
@FaheemMitha But since most people are using LaTeX, it's probably most sensible to just call them engines.
@FaheemMitha 'format' is a very technical term of little value to the end user, really.

@AlanMunn Ok. Engines then. Thanks.
Huh, when I run latexmk with a XeTeX flag, I talks about a xdv file and something called xdvipdfmx. Does XeTeX not produce a PDF directly? Or is it just how latexmk is doing it?
Don't see this with xelatex directly.

9:56 PM
@FaheemMitha it depends what you mean, "LaTeX" is a markup language but it is also the software that implements that, and in current implementations it is physically the same file as the binary application that implements the underlying tex system. So latex and plain tex are distinct markup languages but if you look in your tex bin directory you will see that they are both just symbolic links to teh same executable program

@FaheemMitha xetex produces a xdv file, then silently calls xdvipdfmx to convert that to pdf.

@FaheemMitha it produces xdv (a version of dvi) then runs xdvipdfmx to make pdf but by default it forks the xdvipdfmx process internally and deletes the xdv before you see it.

@DavidCarlisle I'm just looking for a convenient label to use.
@PhelypeOleinik @DavidCarlisle This doesn't show up with a regular xelatex run, but does with latexmk.

@FaheemMitha yes but it depends what you want to use it for

@DavidCarlisle In a config file.
YAML, to be precise.

9:59 PM
@FaheemMitha presumably it uses xeletex --no-pdf yourfile.tex; xdvipdfmx yourfile

10:13 PM
@DavidCarlisle Possibly.

@DavidCarlisle Ah, I see git show acc05a71e reveals that I didn't add the deploy keys ...

@JosephWright I was running a full l3build check in oberdiek so I haven't updated the latex repos for a bit, but sounds like you have it under control now?

@DavidCarlisle Er, perhaps: I see you quoted the SSH key, but the working repos don't have quotes, could be that
@DavidCarlisle Will find out for PR2

@JosephWright docs.travis-ci.com/user/encryption-keys shows secure: ".... encrypted data ...." so quotes are allowed, I think, may have encrypted the wrong thing of course, hard to tell....

10:30 PM
@DavidCarlisle I'll wait to see if @MarcelKrüger has a comment

@DavidCarlisle when I tried this in the chessboard repo I tried at first too to copy a key into the yaml but this didn't work. At the end I used travis setup releases and this adds a key without quotes.

Mar 26 '12 at 19:37, by David Carlisle
@Canageek moral of the story: never read the documentation, bad things happen

@cfr I have deleted my question. tex.stackexchange.com/questions/516849/…

@Sebastiano I didn't vote but it was a bad question
2
@JosephWright so I'll see in a bit if my hand addition of a luahbtex binary was complete enough that tlmgr update will give me all the updated -dev formats... (I think it will, as fmtutil-sys built all the existing ones)

10:57 PM
@DavidCarlisle if it is bad....I have deleted it.

11:13 PM
@Sebastiano the question wasn't good but the picture was nice ;-).

@UlrikeFischer ducks are tastier
does anyone understand why epstopdf-base isn't epstopdf ?

@DavidCarlisle the docu says "Package is split into epstopdf that only takes package options and loads epstopdf-base that does the work."

11:38 PM
@DavidCarlisle isn't that a bit like the ecpl3 split? So that you can load the code early but nevertheless have a sty with options?

@UlrikeFischer yes that's what the doc says and why pdftex.def inputs epstopdf-base.sty (with no options) so I was wondering why that makes the graphics package in pdftex and luatex pull in kvoptions and the whole oberdiek stack... but if you look what epstopdf actually does it does nothing other than save a pile of catcodes, reset a pile of catcodes, call epstopdf-base then restore the catcodes
@UlrikeFischer I wondered about moving all the option handling out of epstopdf-base into epstopdf but bound to break something, I think it would be safer to have a new really base version in the graphics-def distrib that is independent (I know what @JosephWright is going to suggest at this point:-)