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12:05 AM
Night quack!
 
yo'
12:21 AM
@PauloCereda Can I ask for political asylum in Brazil?!
 
@yo' We are not in a good shape either, sadly. :(
 
yo'
@PauloCereda are your president's guards physically attacking journalists at his meeting for that they ... shoot videos?
 
@yo' no, but our president once said the average age for the ordinary Brazilian will soon be of 140 years.
 
yo'
@PauloCereda better and less harmful lie than what happens here. Like the president saying that Crimea is an integral part of Russian Federation :-(
 
@yo' Ouch, I am sorry to hear you and your people are facing terrible times, Tom. <3
 
yo'
12:25 AM
@PauloCereda Psalm 46 helps
 
@yo' Amen
 
cfr
@barbarabeeton Ah. My laptop keyboard has both delete keys. I also like touchpads, though I also routinely use a mouse (different mice) with it. I have a trackpoint, too, but we don't get on that well. Very sorry about the ice winning.
@PauloCereda Cwac y nos.
 
@yo': is there any good light?
@cfr ooh I got the quack part
I am now 50% Welsh proficient! :)
 
yo'
@PauloCereda well, it was 51.37 : 48.63
Similarly to brexit, one of the important factors was quite low appearance of young people. @cfr @JosephWright @DavidCarlisle
 
@yo' oh my
 
yo'
12:31 AM
anyway, time to go to bed.
 
@yo' good night, Tom!
 
@yo' -- good night. (i think you speak french, so you might consider eastern canada. that's looking better and better to me, even if it does usually have more snow than providence.)
 
 
3 hours later…
3:21 AM
@barbarabeeton I somehow recall that some time ago you asked me to convert a comment that sort of answered a question into an answer. Am I supposed that here too? And/or in general?
 
 
4 hours later…
7:07 AM
@marmot You should include the image in your question about casting shadows, it is really cool.
 
7:19 AM
Morning all
 
yo'
7:32 AM
@barbarabeeton oh Canada!
@JosephWright mourning!
 
@yo' Don't worry, think of us Italians on March 5th :)
 
yo'
@CarLaTeX I will
 
 
1 hour later…
9:00 AM
Morning quack!
@JosephWright quack!
@yo' ooh maple sirup. :)
 
@PauloCereda Quack quack
 
@JosephWright Can you believe my thesis has some sort of text already? :)
 
@PauloCereda :)
 
@JosephWright emphasis on sort of :)
 
yo'
9:17 AM
@PauloCereda right. And snow :-)
 
@yo' a lot of it, I heard. :)
ooh an moose
Dem mooses
If we have goose/geese, we should have moose/meese. English is such an easy language! :)
Dem fishes and mooses
 
yo'
@PauloCereda I'd more use some Moses
 
@yo' oh :)
@yo' he could open the sea and then you could come to TUG 2018 by car! :)
 
yo'
@PauloCereda only if he managed to raise gas stops from the seabed too!
 
@yo' oh no
This sounds like a whale conspiracy
 
yo'
9:23 AM
My car lasts only some 500 km between stops. However, I could try to get some extra tanks :)
 
(today I am cheerfully idiot!)
@yo' hmm how many kilometres we have? I think it's more than 10k km.
 
yo'
@PauloCereda overseas Portugal -- Brazil maybe not that much
 
@yo' You are right!
I had no idea that the flights have to cover the most amount of land possible in a route.
That's why flights from Brazil leave the country in the Northeast region...
 
@PauloCereda Have you even tried maple syrup with panettone?
 
9:27 AM
@yo' hm the flight is probably leaving by João Pessoa.
@CarLaTeX I never had maple syrup.
:(
DEM MOOSES
 
@PauloCereda It's good but very sweet :)
 
yo'
@PauloCereda well ... skyvector.com/…
 
@CarLaTeX A famous Brazilian singer (Roberto Carlos) has a song that says Everything I like is illegal, immoral or fattens.. :)
@yo' I stand corrected. :)
We ducks don't use too much airports. :)
 
@PauloCereda I think someone else said it before him :)
 
@CarLaTeX Probably :)
 
9:34 AM
@PauloCereda We have a self-made airplane which can land almost anywhere :)
 
@CarLaTeX ooh
 
yo'
@PauloCereda for a duck, everything is an airport.
2
 
@yo' ooooh
 
@PauloCereda I intended we ducks, of course!
 
@CarLaTeX :)
 
10:07 AM
Hi @barbarabeeton! How are you today?
 
If there are some statisticians around here: math.wm.edu/~leemis/chart/UDR/UDR.html, if you click on a block you get a document about the corresponding distribution (all written in LaTeX, of course)!
 
10:28 AM
@CarLaTeX Ooh, nice! (Even though I am not a statistician.) The hover action is a nice touch, too. And all the graphics are done in TikZ, I presume?
 
@HaraldHanche-Olsen I think so, really gorgeous!
 
11:10 AM
@Johannes_B vv
eek that wikibook page is wrong in so many places. — David Carlisle 8 mins ago
 
@DavidCarlisle Got a lot of updates on that site recently. Have a look at the history. And by the way, agreed.
@DavidCarlisle That \width stuff was added two days ago.
 
@Johannes_B the width stuff is wrong, the fbox example is missing % at ends of lines, it links to a page on "latex defined length macros" which is wrong (they are not macros and half of them are tex primitives not defined by latex) I really don't want to get an account there:-)
 
@DavidCarlisle Get the other guys of the team together and ask Wikibooks to delete this book. Matter solved.
yesterday, by Johannes_B
The wikibook has gotten some changes by several contributors. Is anybody aware if there was some action leading to this? There are so many edits, i cannot review them all, especially since one page is edited again and again and again.
 
11:27 AM
@Johannes_B the latex team is pretty much at full stretch maintaining the code, I think 3rd party documentation like wikibooks needs to be maintained by others and the team can't do a lot
 
@DavidCarlisle LaTeX is properly documented. The Wikibook is just extra clutter and in many parts wong. I really think that deleting the thing isn't a bad idea.
5
 
@Johannes_B possibly (looks that way from the two or three pages I looked at just now) but
What do you want me to do?  LEAVE?  Then they'll keep being wrong!
4
 
On the other hand, look at it this way: If the wikibook stays, it generates questions here that can be answered. The stream is constant.
 
yo'
@DavidCarlisle could be the motto of our presidential elections :-)
 
@yo' "Are you coming to bed" would make an interesting political slogan, I agree.
 
11:48 AM
The Wikibook page about boxes gets a daily average of 560 hits. The one about bibliography management a daily averageof 1497 views. This ensures that TeX.SX will live on.
 
@Johannes_B sure but it's like Wikipedia itself, when it started some people argued that it could never work and people should use proper curated encyclopedia. but basically it does work, some pages are wrong but over time they get fixed and hopefully converge on a useful text.
@Johannes_B I suspect there are not enough knowledgeable users looking at the latex wikibook that bad texts get flagged often enough, but it does not mean it has to be that way, nor does it mean that anyone really can ask for all that text to be deleted.
 
The most viewed pages of all Wikibooks pages of november 2017. The LaTeX wikibook is listed 11 times out of the 16 I captured. Many new users looking for reliable information.
 
@Johannes_B sure but I doubt deletion is possible (even if it were deleted it could be re-created from archives) wikis are controlled "by the masses" not by dictat from above, that is the whole point of them, so I do not see how "the latex team" could get it deleted even if we wanted to
 
12:17 PM
@Johannes_B yes I didn't mean that I didn't think there was a mechanism for deletion, but I doubt that the entire latex wikibook could be deleted (without months of pointless argument) and it doesn't make sense to have a latex wikibook and not have a page on boxes, so you can't delete that, so hoping it gets fixed (or fixing it) is the only possibility
 
@DavidCarlisle Who would argue to keep it?
 
12:29 PM
I am hungry
 
@PauloCereda I'm eating
 
@CarLaTeX oh
 
@PauloCereda I have eaten already.... 100 % duck-free, of course ;-)
 
@ChristianHupfer phew
 
12:47 PM
@DavidCarlisle Concerning the fund question, how many times is the LaTeX companion sold on average per year?
 
@Johannes_B not as much as it was and it's a private contract with the authors and a-w, the authors had a separate agreement to donate some of the royalties to the project but anyway it's not on topic here:-)
@Johannes_B the people reading it and the people who have spent time writing that text there must have been at least hundreds of hours work gone into that text, I for one am not going to suggest that it be deleted unless I had read every word and most of it was wrong
 
@DavidCarlisle the starting stages of the book were just copy pasting stuff. People added and changed stuff. All of them lost interest. 4 new users trying to update the wikibook, with quality not matching my expectence level, but it is better than nothing. I have invested a lot of time as well. But still.
 
@Johannes_B yes I realise that. But I don't think there are any easy answers to controlling a wiki.
 
@Johannes_B You once lured me to write something about \tableofcontents and \addcontentsline, but I did not proceed (or ever started). Is that still necessary?
 
@ChristianHupfer Probably. en.wikibooks.org/wiki/LaTeX/…
 
1:02 PM
@DavidCarlisle -- personal anecdote ... i joined up to be able to edit the latex wikibook, proposed some changes to an area that i know well, and was immediately rejected, no reason given, presumably as a new, unknown quantity. this has discouraged me from spending too much time and effort. how one gets to be "known" in the wikibooks community is not clear to me. @Johannes_B can corroborate -- i asked him if he would carry my corrections forward, but he demurred, presumably as similarly discouraged.
 
@barbarabeeton Really? Did I? I am happy to accept any good changes.
 
@Johannes_B -- i'm afraid i haven't got a record of the changes (not easy, unless they're compiled offline and then cut-and-pasted in). but i think i can resurrect our correspondence. should i look? (of course, it's possible that you might think my changes weren't good ...)
 
@barbarabeeton: quack!
 
@PauloCereda -- quack back. i go home today. i've started packing.
 
@barbarabeeton Yay, home sweet home! <3
 
1:10 PM
@PauloCereda -- yup. almost better, even -- access to my library and computer files!
 
@barbarabeeton Yay! I can picture you now closing your eyes, clicking the heels of the ruby slippers together three times and repeating the phrase, "There's no place like home." :)
 
@barbarabeeton I trust your knowledge. If i recognize your name, i'll accept the change.
 
@barbarabeeton I'm happy you can return home! <3 <3 <3
 
1:52 PM
how does one nest commands for something like this \newcommand{\mat}[1]{\vec{/\hat{#1}}}
I can't seem to get it to work the same as just writing \hat{\vec{A}}
 
2:02 PM
@baxx Are you loading amsmath? And what's / doing in te definition?
 
2:19 PM
/ was just something that i was experimenting with, it doesn't work without it though.. amsmath - yes, but perhaps it's loaded after this is defined, let me check
yep - that works now, thanks :)
 
@baxx First packages then definitions is usually the best organization.
 
2:58 PM
@CarLaTeX Nahh. See this discussion. ;-) The humans may think that I'm just doing this to be upvoted. ;-)
 
@marmot It's a pity :'(
 
3:27 PM
I should flag this answer — David Carlisle 7 mins ago
 
3:41 PM
@DavidCarlisle I can't see the link to the most upvoted comment
 
@CarLaTeX odd, it should link to the comment Harald just added here (highest voted comment on that answer, i meant)
 
@AlanMunn Check out this artist catalogue there are really cool stuff youtube.com/watch?v=YaWeEIuiobM
 
@DavidCarlisle Ah, I thought the most upvoted in general :):):)
 
@DavidCarlisle That is indeed very very cool. Let me dive in a bit :D
 
3:46 PM
@percusse it's not from me, but I thought you might be interested
 
@DavidCarlisle Thanks anyway. The more the merrier. Actually I've recently started searching for LAPACK routines by its name + NAG. Because yours are much better organized instead of that Doxygen template.
 
@percusse we try our best:-)
 
@DavidCarlisle Is it also TeX-like compilation for every new Mark ## series? Or manual additions if necessary?
 
@percusse no tex it's all xml, and we generate the fortran C matlab (.net etc) doc and much of the code from the same xml sources, we have an xml document per routine plus a control xml that says which routines are in or out at each mark
so for example for matlab (and python) in theory i just need to set up that workspaces arrays are dropped, output arguments move to the left hand side to be returned, and array dimensions are dropped etc, then the documentation will build for that interface from the same xml source as the fortran doc. Plus generating the mapping code needed to implement that language interface over the compiled library.
 
@DavidCarlisle I see. So it doesn't have any refguide check I guess. What I mean is for SciPy on the daily builds one of the engine is setup to check whether the examples are giving the desired outputs in the docstrings. So it is basically running all the examples and checking whether the values match in the docstrings say like the bottom ones in this example scipy.github.io/devdocs/generated/…
 
3:55 PM
@percusse the fortran examples have saved base results for every operating system /compiler pair that we support and they all run every night and complain if anything changes (we also have far more extensive tests for which we do the same)
 
@DavidCarlisle ah ok. It's separated, got it.
 
@percusse our "stringent tests" are self testing but the "example" programs are designed to look like something someone might actually do, so the result files and comparison are separate
 
@DavidCarlisle Which reminded me this one
Oct 27 '16 at 12:09, by percusse
@DavidCarlisle In case it matters to someone there is a typo in the documentation matrix http://www.nag.com/lapack-ex/node6.html
The (4,4) element is positive 0.80 in the data file
but I don't know if you ever used that lapack-ex part anymore
 
4:16 PM
@percusse Oh I remember that, I thought I got it fixed at source but perhaps we never updated the site, I think they are intended to be more or less replaced by the new ones on GH, but I'll check thanks.
 
@DavidCarlisle No problem, I got a few of those somewhere. I'll submit a PR thanks to GitHub instead :)
 
@egreg do you still get notifications on comments on the question about e plus limits?
 
@daleif No. I only saw on the main page it was modified.
 
@egreg I'm out of ideas as to persuade someone not to use a syntax like that and my math knowledge does not recognize the real life example.
 
@daleif That's a perfect example of how to write incomprehensible mathematics.
 
4:33 PM
@egreg exactly, my concern is always the readability of the material not the traditions in a field. It took me a bit of time but got our researchers to go away from P(A|B) with no spaces around the |, now no one cites traditions anymore when I edit them away
 
yo'
@daleif have you got a link please?
 
0
Q: Switch to `\displaystyle` in superscripts (automatic `\limits`)

DerWehI have to use a lot of sums in exponential functions like I would like to have the summation indices of sums to be displayed below the sums for increased readability. I know that I can achieve this for a single sum by placing \limits. Is there also a global solution for all math environments ...

@daleif Removed the grouping after nondenominational. ;-)
 
5:04 PM
@egreg I have no idea where my tablet got that idea from... 😎
 
5:15 PM
@daleif Perhaps it does so only on Sundays.
 
6:07 PM
@JosephWright what happened to the unused global option warning?
\documentclass[unusedoption]{beamer}
\begin{document}
x
\end{document}
 
@DavidCarlisle I don't think that it was ever there in beamer (it has this complicated system to pass options e.g. to hyperref).
 
@UlrikeFischer yes but since it's part of latex, it's not just that it isn't implemented, it must be disabled (I suppose by not using the standard option handler)
 
@DavidCarlisle Yes, beamer has commands like \ProcessOptionsBeamer and \DeclareOptionBeamer.
 
Hi is there an easy way to get a beamer [itemize ball] bullet outside of an itemize environment (but still within beamer)?
@percusse Nice! Thanks.
One should never doubt the site. tex.stackexchange.com/q/84166/2693
 
 
1 hour later…
yo'
7:29 PM
@egreg thanks, I commented.
 
8:25 PM
@barbarabeeton @CarLaTeX @PauloCereda ^^^^
 
@UlrikeFischer so that's where @barbarabeeton has been.
 
@egreg -- this caused me to check the ams style guide. the situation isn't mentioned there, and should be. i have submitted a complaint.
@UlrikeFischer -- urk!
 
@DavidCarlisle should we make a get well card for vafa khaligi using tikz ducks?
you can use google translate to write get well in all the RTL languages
 
8:44 PM
@UlrikeFischer oooh
 
9:08 PM
@DavidCarlisle Nice comeback
 
9:23 PM
I don't know if this is the right place to ask a non-duck question, but I'm wondering if any of you has read page 1053 of the pgfmanual and stumled over the comment "% \pgf@x will contain the radius % \pgf@y will contain the distance" on the bottom. Does that make sense? Shouldn't \pgf@x the angle? (If you think this is not the right place to ask such questions, please tell me.)
 
@marmot is that a tex related question?
 
@DavidCarlisle Yes.
 
@marmot definitely the wrong place then!
 
OK, sorry then. Thanks for telling me!
 
@marmot stick to cricket questions, you'll be OK
 
9:32 PM
@DavidCarlisle And ducks?
 
@marmot no, just eat them
 
@DavidCarlisle No way, marmots are vegetarians!
 
@marmot meanwhile it does not look like a typo in that "radius" is used three times, Perhaps a mis-translation?
 
@marmot I think it's using r to be the angle. And d to be distance (which is usually called the radius). Just above it says A polar coordinate (r, d) gets transformed to the canvas position (d cos r, d sin r), which is clearly not a linear transformation.
 
@DavidCarlisle Well, the German word for radius is Radius. Maybe he meant radians...
BTW, I think you completely misinterpreted the statement "I love ducks" [here](https://tex.stackexchange.com/a/409029/121799) ... and don't even think about editing the post by adding "especially when they are deep fried" ;-)
@AlanMunn Thanks, makes more sense. Was just wondering if everybody knew what's going on here.
 
9:41 PM
@marmot The answer to your question though, is that we never know what's going on here. :)
 
@AlanMunn I think I completely understand. He defines a transformation which sometimes works and sometimes does not work ;-)
 
@marmot NatürlichkenneichalledeutschenWörter
 
@DavidCarlisle OK, what is a Oachkatzlschwoaf?
 
@marmot That's easy: it is the same word in English:
 
@DavidCarlisle A class mate in elementary school was a squirrel, and she told me it means tail of a squirrel.
 
9:48 PM
@marmot never trust squirrels, they will steal your nuts
 
@DavidCarlisle Can we let @ChristianHupfer decide?
 
@marmot It's apparently an Austrian shibboleth.
 
user image
2
@marmot ^^^^
 
@UlrikeFischer ;-)
 
@marmot Huh????
 
9:58 PM
@ChristianHupfer Could you please translate "Oachkatzlschwoaf" for @DavidCarlisle ?
 
@marmot @DavidCarlisle Tail of a squirrel ...
 
@DavidCarlisle See? ;-)
 
@marmot ;-)
 
@marmot: Now ask @DavidCarlisle what Austrians mean by 'Paradeiser' or a 'Jause' ;-) (Well, I am not Austrian)
 
@ChristianHupfer He wouldn't know... ;-)
 
10:04 PM
@marmot Most likely some words where google translator @DavidCarlisle's knowledge of German language might fail ;-)
 
@ChristianHupfer Probably. Will LateX3 have a better translator built in?
 
@marmot Yes. I've heard LaTeX4 will even have support for Klingon language ;-) You've to wait until the year 2525, if mankind is still alive ;-)
 
@ChristianHupfer As long as marmots survive ... Seems like we are a bit better prepared for the nuclear winter caused by the humans....
 
@marmot Ah, a new restart of Planet of the Apes Marmots then? :D
 
@ChristianHupfer Better not. Also the ducks would go extinct.
 
10:17 PM
Stupid TikZ question: Why is the spacing of a node placed in an equation wrong?
\documentclass{article}

\usepackage{mathtools}
\usepackage{tikz}
\usepackage{blindtext}

\begin{document}

Usual spacing: $ \dfrac{1}{2} \cdot a \cdot t^{2} $

Wrong spacing: $ \dfrac{1}{2} \cdot \tikz[remember picture,overlay]{\node[baseline=(A.center),above,inner sep=0pt] (A) {$a$};} \cdot t^{2} $

\blindtext

$ F = m \cdot \tikz[remember picture,overlay]{\node[baseline=(B.center),inner sep=0pt,above] (B) {$a$};} $

\tikz[remember picture,overlay]{\draw[blue, <->] (A) to [bend left] (B);}
\end{document}
This is of course only a test document.
 
@ChristianHupfer overlay makes the picture have zero size, you want only remember picture for the \tikz with the a node.
 
@TorbjørnT. Ah, that did it. Thank you very much. I thought I had to use overlay for any of the remembered nodes. So only the \draw operation` needs overlay then?
 
@ChristianHupfer Yes.
 
@TorbjørnT. Thanks!!! This was really helpful. I should do more TikZ stuff actually ;-)
@TorbjørnT.: Is there a way to make a TikZ node 'math-mode' aware or is $...$ in the node label needed every time?
 
42
Q: Is there a tikz style for putting math in all nodes?

Ryan ReichI'm finally trying out TikZ and am already infected with its programmatic philosophy. I would like to be able to do something like every node/.style = {math mode} (which is wrong) so that I can omit the $...$ inside the text of my nodes. This is not just for convenience; without it, the equa...

 
10:27 PM
@TorbjørnT.: Again, thank you very much!
 
@marmot I didn't deny the meaning, just said (and showed proof) that it is the same word in English
 
@DavidCarlisle Another for you in amsmath
2
Q: `\sideset` with parentheses

Yuta SuzukiI am now trying to define some "decorated operators" similar to in several ways and I want to find my preference on decorating operators. A simple "prepared" way is to use the command \sideset of amsmath, though the position of the limit-style subscript may depend on one's preference. Some mont...

 
@egreg I can think of someone else with write access to the sources
@egreg I suppose it's bound to make someone's equation just too wide.
 
10:51 PM
@DavidCarlisle There's a problem with this: it might change existing documents. So it seems to have gained the status of feature. ;-)
 
@egreg true, but I wonder if it's an improvement big enough that it's worth a \egregdoesntlikesansseriftitlesbutlikeswellspacedprescripts command that redefines \sideset as you suggest. Perhaps get @daleif to add it to mathtools then we can blame him if users complain.
I think I'll open a GH issue so this doesn't get lost (unless you want to?)
 

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