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7:39 AM
Morning quack!
@TeXnician See the comments here: tex.stackexchange.com/a/405144/101651. :):):)
@PauloCereda 'giorno qua qua qua
@CarLaTeX 'ello
@PauloCereda Do you know the etymology of "ciao"?
@CarLaTeX no...
@PauloCereda It comes from Venetian dialect (sciavo=schiavo=slave), to say ciao means "I'm you slave", it's similar to the German "Servus" or "Servös" (I don't remember well the term).
7:51 AM
@CarLaTeX oh my
@CarLaTeX @barbarabeeton “international TeXnocrat” … that's a good one!
@CarLaTeX At least there are only TeXperts left ;)
@HaraldHanche-Olsen I think it's a compliment and very suitable to her :):):)
@CarLaTeX Servus is right. Although this was just "imported".
@CarLaTeX Ah, but that reminds me of a letter I saw once, unfortunately not addressed to me, but to a professor at the department where I was a student: From a professor in Spain, it ended with something like “Be assured, honoured Professor, that I will always remain your faithful servant.”
7:55 AM
@TeXnician What the latin did for us! :):):)
@CarLaTeX Absolutely. And none of the negative connotations, which are plenty, apply in this case.
@HaraldHanche-Olsen Maybe the author of the letter used Google Translator: ):):)
@CarLaTeX This was long before the Internet existed. Not sure if even Arpanet was around at the time.
@HaraldHanche-Olsen Oooh long time ago
@CarLaTeX In Swedish, there is the word “tjänare”, which seems to be used similarly.
8:00 AM
@HaraldHanche-Olsen How is it pronunced?
@egreg @JosephWright @DavidCarlisle @PauloCereda @barbarabeeton Quiz: It's \ds and it's at the beginning of every {array}. What is it?
@yo' Oooh a quiz!
@yo' do stuff, perhaps? :)
@CarLaTeX They got some teachers to study it and give very interesting lessons ;)
@CarLaTeX I don't know phonetic spelling, so I am having a hard time with that. But the initial “tj” is somewhat similar to the “ch” in German “Ich” (as opposed to “nach”), and the “ä” is pronounced like a somewhat broad “e”.
8:02 AM
@CarLaTeX There's an audio clip at en.wiktionary.org/wiki/tjänare When used as a greeting they often cut off the "re" at the end.
@HaraldHanche-Olsen @TorbjørnT. Thank you, now I'm ready to a trip to Sweden :):):)
@TeXnician 😆
8:41 AM
@yo' I would guess \def\ds{\def\arraystretch{2}}
@DavidCarlisle no.
Hint: It's also after each \\ in the array.
@HaraldHanche-Olsen which is more or less standard if formal and a bit archaic english letter ending
@yo' oooh I know, dolumn stretch
@yo' oh so I guessed the meaning but not the location, \def\ds{\noalign{\vspace{10pt}}
@DavidCarlisle no.
Hint 2: It's an abbreviation.
8:45 AM
@yo' \def\ds{\howthe*canIguess} ?
@yo' yes I was guessing ds=double space
@DavidCarlisle no. You could actually \let it to a command rather than \def'd
@DavidCarlisle language, young man. :)
@DavidCarlisle you think about array way too conventually.
@PauloCereda dinner!
8:53 AM
@DavidCarlisle oh no
Jun 29 at 16:15, by Paulo Cereda
@DavidCarlisle you are not mean :)
@DavidCarlisle ooh preemptive answer :)
@DavidCarlisle: I was so happy to wake up today for a new, bright day! Then I saw some sort of review assigned to me...
@JosephWright ^^ :)
@PauloCereda :)
10:03 AM
@JosephWright Why is there no migration path between meta and the main site? This question would be one where it is needed.
@JosephWright: do you have any suggestions on how to review? I am currently going through the diff and checking the code at the same time.
@TeXnician It's very rarely needed, so flag if you feel it's needed and I or one of the other mods handle it
@PauloCereda Up to you: I just want to make sure someone else checks this!
@PauloCereda I've spotted at least one minor issue which I'll fix before any merge
@JosephWright ooh share the blame. :) I thought you have a very high optimized work flow. :)
@JosephWright Done.
@PauloCereda Normally 'Joseph just does it' :)
10:07 AM
@JosephWright ooh :)
@PauloCereda For Lua there are more people to ask than for expl3
@PauloCereda I nee to fix constructing the TDS for complex sets ups (I'm testing against beamer)
@JosephWright good test case. :)
@PauloCereda Main driver for sorting this!
@PauloCereda Depending on family, may be sorted in the next hour
@JosephWright cool
@PauloCereda More or less I'm looking for 'Does it look like it does what it says?' and ideally 'Does it look good style?'/'IS the documentation OK?'
10:19 AM
@JosephWright Got it
@PauloCereda We've not done any kind of formal code review before (SVN workflow has been 'check in and hope') ...
@JosephWright Do you mind teleporting it to the main site?
Q: Feasible TeX projects to get started with (expl3?)

dbmrqI'm a pretty decent LaTeX user in the sense that I write LaTeX documents all the time and I can do pretty much everything that I need to do (with some occasional help from you lovely people). But I don't know much about plain TeX and TeX's inner workings, and I don't need to know it for most of w...

@percusse I already flagged it for mod attention.
@percusse by your powers combined, I am... Oh wait, wrong show. :)
@percusse in other news, hi sir!
@TeXnician I see.
@PauloCereda well hello, well educated gentleman
10:25 AM
@percusse top of the morning!
Jan 12 '16 at 12:15, by David Carlisle
@PauloCereda finished your thesis?
@percusse oh no
Don't piss off your publisher.
@egreg ^^ :)
@PauloCereda How unprofessional. If you don't like it don't print it dude. Passive aggressive buoyancy.
@percusse PC publishing guidelines :)
Dear @Spotify -- somehow I doubt that.
Another one for @egreg ^^
@PauloCereda If you haven't yet, watch the Blue Planet II series.
10:33 AM
@percusse Is it good, sir?
Make TeX great again
@PauloCereda See Hans in TUGboat?
@JosephWright no...
user image
@PauloCereda ^^
10:37 AM
@percusse LOL
@JosephWright Advertising TeX?
@PauloCereda Yup
@JosephWright looking at it now. :)
Did you guys already receive TB38:3?
@PauloCereda I did: came this week (so picked it up last night)
@JosephWright Hmm I am two editions short then.
@PauloCereda :(
10:44 AM
@JosephWright It happens quite often for me.
Once in while I have to report to the office.
@PauloCereda TeX has always been great!
@CarLaTeX boo
@PauloCereda :P :):):)
@PauloCereda Just bought a new recording of the Messiah
@egreg a new copy of the Bible then? :)
10:55 AM
@egreg ooh :)
@yo' Bimillenia edition with testimonies,
*"Worth the read"*, NY Times
*"A true classic"*, Reader's Digest
Your con­tri­bu­tion has been up­loaded
We have gath­ered the fol­low­ing in­for­ma­tion for your sub­mis­sion:
Pack­age: texdef
Ver­sion: 1.7c
@MartinScharrer Doing a 2nd PhD?
@percusse No, ;-), just a package update
Finally got the time to upload a small but important fix for texdef.
I like your PhD, it got me a lot of useful tools in TeX :)
11:01 AM
@MartinScharrer Thank you!
@percusse ooh
@percusse: is that even possible?
@percusse ;-) Thanks!
My swag arrived from TeX.SE. I somehow was expecting All I got from my PhD is this lousy tshirt written on it.
@percusse: would you like mine too? I will provide lots of wacky macro expanders with annyoing syntactic structures without real use.
@PauloCereda syntactical foul
@egreg Beautiful!
\section{$\bigskip$Study of the set $V^{1}\left(  F_{1},F_{2}\right)$ (Extended solutions)}
11:16 AM
@percusse <3
@yo' Another pearl!
12:02 PM
@egreg honestly, I would have had no idea what it should produce.
12:47 PM
@DavidCarlisle Concerning tex.stackexchange.com/questions/404345/…, is the question arising only from thatexpectation that a path has to be given, and the misconception that leaving out the path won't work? As you wrote in a commet, it should just work if sty and image are in the same directory. (and the sty file is found)
1:09 PM
GitKraken is no more.
1:25 PM
@Johannes_B quite possibly. The question and the comments under it are confused.
@PauloCereda no more in general or no more on your machine?
1 hour later…
2:30 PM
Hmm, now that's odd … I have a script that generates a couple hundred pdf files by running lualatex on the same tex file with different jobnames. It inputs some data from somedir/\jobname. So one of the runs failed with the complaint that \@mlabel is undefined. Running that one by hand did not reproduce the problem. And the script restarted did the same job just fine. Phase of the moon bug?
@HaraldHanche-Olsen what is it supposed to be defined to be? (not a command name I recognose)
@DavidCarlisle Don't know; I have never defined it. Using only standard packages, no hokus pokus.
@DavidCarlisle RAM problem perhaps? A bit got flipped in memory?
@HaraldHanche-Olsen oh it's defined in brief.cls, letter.cls envlab.sty and some other letter related things
:41635290 \def\biggl{zz\biggl} ?
@DavidCarlisle Don't use those. And sed -ne 's/^INPUT //p' 304.fls | xargs grep -F '\@mlabel' produced no output. Makes me wonder if the wrong file got included on that one run! (Unfortunately the log file is gone, as it was overwritten when I tried to reproduce the problem.)
3:07 PM
@HaraldHanche-Olsen two oberdiek packages contains the command too: atveryend and hobsub-hyperref.
@UlrikeFischer They are also on the endless list of packages not used. I think it quite likely that a cosmic ray flipped a bit in memory, in which case I'll never see this particular problem again.
@UlrikeFischer We might have some fun looking for commands whose name differs from \@mlabel by a single bit … but it doesn't really matter, even if it exists.
@HaraldHanche-Olsen No hyperref involved?
@UlrikeFischer Nope.
1 hour later…
4:23 PM
@PauloCereda @UlrikeFischer @CarLaTeX "Problem" solved with the help of greasemonkey :)
arg, why does the image upload does not like me?
@samcarter ???
@CarLaTeX sorry, had a problem with the upload.
(top right corner above the sphere)
@samcarter I think I missed something... how could you get it? Please give me the instructions <3 <3 <3
@CarLaTeX It works via a greasemonkey user script. Do happen to use either fireforx or chrome?
Microsoft Edge, Safari, Opera Next should also work
The script to replace the normal background image with the duck is then
// ==UserScript==
// @name _TeX SE, Swap header background
// @match *://tex.stackexchange.com/*
// @grant GM_addStyle
// @run-at document-start
// ==/UserScript==

GM_addStyle ( `
#header {
background: transparent url('https://i.stack.imgur.com/LVfSC.png') no-repeat 50% -25px !important;
` );
(thanks to this nice answer: stackoverflow.com/a/19392142/2777074 )
4:44 PM
@HaraldHanche-Olsen -- i like that name, "phase of the moon bug". had one once, on the output of a utility sort, "key out of order". on an rca spectra 70. (none of them around any more.) had to grub through a 3in stack of greenbar to find it ... (no greenbar any more either. financed turnpike tolls for a couple of vacation trips from the proceeds of recycling greenbar and punched cards. starving student days.)
@samcarter I have Firefox, Crome and IE Explorer on Windows X
@samcarter I'll try asap, thank you!
@CarLaTeX Great! The firefox addon you would need is addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/greasemonkey
If you are willing to install this you could go to tools->greasmonkey->new user script
@samcarter You should edit the "yes" answer to Paulo question adding these instructions <3 <3 <3
(will finish the explanation in a little bit)
@PauloCereda Hopefully a finalised pull request in the next few minutes
4:50 PM
@barbarabeeton Greenbar, does that refer to the paper used in line printers back then? And the rca spectra 70 – that sounds ancient. I cut my teeth on a CDC 3300, which was probably hugely more modern. I never had to find a bug buried quite that deep, but I did find (and report) a bug in the operating system at the time. Details lost, unfortunately.
@samcarter Greasemonkey seems like overkill for this task. It should be possible to do with the Stylish extension? (Which, as the name implies, is for overriding CSS.)
@CarLaTeX The new user script should have as "included pages" tex.stackexchange and after clicking in "edit this user script" copy and past the code from chat.stackexchange.com/transcript/message/41636617#41636617
What is difference between \begin{enumerate} and \begin{enumerate*}
@CarLaTeX That's the plan. Or post a new answer in case I manage to get the question reopened temporarily.
4:58 PM
@All, What is difference between \begin{enumerate} and \begin{enumerate*}
@samcarter I've already voted for reopening!
@HaraldHanche-Olsen yes, stylish would be much better suited. I opted for gresemonkey as I already have this addon installed for various other scripts.
@subhamsoni Are you using enumitem?
@subhamsoni The *-version is provided by the enumitem package and does the enumeration inline rather than items starting a new line.
@CarLaTeX I did so now, too! I guess its a good compromise. Everyone who wants a duck can get it.
5:02 PM
@egreg Thank you so much :)
@samcarter Yes, this makes everyone happy!
@CarLaTeX No, it leaves all user without this little modification in the mind set they are already in (happy or not) and just makes the users with the duck happy, as we can enjoy the nice background image :)
@samcarter Ok, it makes the duck fans happy :):):)
@CarLaTeX this it does!
@HaraldHanche-Olsen -- yep, that's the stuff. and indeed, the rca spectra 70 was the first computer installed at ams. the first one (real memory -- remember overlays?) was 32k, upgraded (to a thankful programming crew) to 64k after only about a year. mostly for business computing, but some typeset output to a photon 713 (hardly any math; that had to be hand-positioned, and metal type would have been faster to compose). thngs have sure changed!
5:22 PM
@barbarabeeton I just have to tell you this anecdote … from the university I am now at, but long before I came there: Their first computer was, of course, reserved for Serious Research. But some students managed to get permission to use the computer at night. One morning at about 4, they were in the middle of printing the result of the night's work when the line printer – and computer with it – came to a sudden halt. Nothing they tried got it going again. (to be cont'd …)
@barbarabeeton … So in despair, they called the guy in charge of the computer. He came, and closed the curtains. The line printer and computer came to life! And he left without saying another word.
@barbarabeeton The explanation: The line printer had a lamp and a photo receptor to check for the presence of paper. The early morning sun, shining through the paper onto the photo receptor, fooled the printer into thinking it was out of paper.
@HaraldHanche-Olsen -- i love it! before i started at the ams, i was a computer operator and "gofer" at the brown computing lab. (long before an actual comp sci department.) not a window in the place, except for the front lobby. so the thought of a computer center with a window to the outside is still rather foreign to me.
@barbarabeeton The thought had evidently not occured to the designers of the printer, either.
5:39 PM
@HaraldHanche-Olsen -- there was a particular idiosyncrasy to the spectra 70 at the ams. one of the disk drives was from siemens, and instead of "ready", the status light was marked "bereit". and instead of spinning in the same direction as all the other disk drives (which i think was counterclockwise), it rotated in the opposite direction. so one always had to remember which disks could be read successfully on that drive, and if two of those were needed at the same time, out of luck.
@barbarabeeton And yet, when we tell how it was then, the youngsters don't believe a word we say, do they? It was uphill both ways, I tell ya!
@HaraldHanche-Olsen -- quite true. that's one reason i sometimes describe particular experiences as "b.c." (before computers, although there are those folks who interpret it differently.) certainly there's more power in a cell phone these days than there was in the largest computer i had access to before the internet (which was still the arpanet when i first got access).
6:11 PM
@samcarter I managed to insert a css-script in my browser (opera), but I had to add the https:// to the url:
#header {
background: transparent url('https://i.stack.imgur.com/1otKE.png') no-repeat 50% -25px !important;
@UlrikeFischer Thanks for the feedback. I will keep this in mind when writing an answer (if the question gets reopend)
@UlrikeFischer I made a version with the duck further down to prevent cutting of the head: i.stack.imgur.com/LVfSC.png
@samcarter @CarLaTeX @PauloCereda
user image
^^^^my first cookies ...
@UlrikeFischer <3 <3 <3 yummy!
@UlrikeFischer Wow! They look delicious!
@samcarter do you recognize the form?
6:23 PM
@UlrikeFischer It looks very similar! A coincident?
@UlrikeFischer Very cute. What's the icing made of? Or is it regular icing with food colouring?
@samcarter 3d-printer (not mine) and cookiecaster.com
@AlanMunn yes sugar, lemon juice and colors.
@UlrikeFischer Ohhhhh - you are definitely on the short list of tikzducks fan of the year!
@UlrikeFischer Finally a form of duck I would eat :)
6:49 PM
@UlrikeFischer I am sure this is what @DavidCarlisle is always talking about when he equates duck with dinner!
@UlrikeFischer Wow! @samcarter is right, you're the top fan!
@samcarter I think @DavidCarlisle would want to put these on a pizza.
@AlanMunn Hm. I could use the form to cut out suitable ananas slices ;-)
@AlanMunn In this case, I could approve :):):)
@CarLaTeX Be careful, it's a slippery slope. Once you approve one non-traditional pizza topping you open the door for total pizza anarchy. :)
@UlrikeFischer Even better! :)
6:57 PM
@AlanMunn LOL
@AlanMunn We Italians have an instinct for distinguishing what's a correct pizza topping.
@egreg So duck cookies ok, pineapple, not ok. That's some instinct. :)
@AlanMunn Cookies? Oh, no!
@AlanMunn Only duck cookies :)
@AlanMunn Don't bother @CarLaTeX, she's worried about tonight's match.
7:01 PM
@CarLaTeX Managed to edit in time for you. :)
@egreg Derby egreg-CarLaTeX tonight!
@AlanMunn very good
@UlrikeFischer @AlanMunn To be more traditional, we could use Ulrike's form to cut the mozzarella
@CarLaTeX I doubt it will keep the shape. Salami could work.
@CarLaTeX Too late, she's already suggested using it for pineapple.
10 mins ago, by Ulrike Fischer
@AlanMunn Hm. I could use the form to cut out suitable ananas slices ;-)
@UlrikeFischer That's a good idea
@AlanMunn oh no
@UlrikeFischer On the other hand, you could make duck shaped ravioli.
7:10 PM
@AlanMunn another good idea
7:32 PM
We're not the only site with a sense of humour:
Q: Is it important not to scratch copper wire when removing insulation?

AltobanI use a small cutter made for max 14 gauge wires, but I'm bad at removing insulation, it takes me a bit of time to get it right, so I end up cutting and repeating, because I see scratches on copper wire were I cut the insulation. Should I ignore it? How bad are these scratches or marks? These are...

1 hour later…
8:54 PM
Switching beamer to l3build is complete
@samcarter I'd welcome test suggestions for beamer!
@JosephWright Fantastic! I will make a list and come back to you.
@JosephWright Would it be possible to reopen tex.meta.stackexchange.com/questions/7475/… for a few minutes? I'd like to add an answer.
@samcarter Done
@JosephWright Thank you. Feel free to close again if you wish.
9:21 PM
Tikz people: how do I set the width of a label so that it will wrap into two lines? I can wrap it in a tabular but is there another way?
@AlanMunn label={[text width=3cm]right:foo bar}
@TorbjørnT. Perfect. Thanks. I didn't know how to add options to the label syntax like that.
2 hours later…
10:59 PM
Very weird forest artefacts are appearing in my document.
@AlanMunn Uh! Code?

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