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6:44 AM
Hi o/
I have TeXStudio installed on my laptop, and I am trying to install TeXLive
Getting the following error, am I supposed to download a newer version of TeXLive or is there a trick/hint to go on with the current version?
 
yo'
6:58 AM
@Gigili you really should download the latest tl-install
 
7:12 AM
@yo' Hm, that's sad! The file is quite large.
OK, thanks.
 
@Gigili Not really. tl-install.exe is 12MB (tug.org/texlive/acquire-netinstall.html). TeX Live itself is of course much larger.
 
@TorbjørnT. My adviser recommended to use tl-advanced.bat
 
7:43 AM
@Gigili That's inside the .exe (which is a self-extracting zip)
 
Aha, thanks.
 
yo'
8:01 AM
@Gigili Large? About 20MB?
 
8:12 AM
Someone told me it is about 4 gigabytes
 
@Gigili That's a full TL install
 
And? Shouldn't one do the full install?
 
@Gigili I would do a full one, but the point here is that gets downloaded by the installer as it runs. You only need to manually get the 'stub' that does the work.
 
8:36 AM
Aha, that makes sense. Got it, thank you.
 
8:49 AM
Pondering biblatex backends ... complicated
@DavidCarlisle It's almost as bad as engine support in the kernel!
Still not sure what to do about BibTeX: I'm not sure there is a good solution :-(
I think I have a plan!
@Anthony Re. tex.stackexchange.com/questions/299741/…: this is one for chat!
@Anthony If you pop in here we can talk about it
 
@FaheemMitha ?
 
@DavidCarlisle See the nice reply link thingy. That was a response to:
13 hours ago, by David Carlisle
@PauloCereda anyway the gif was called "duck-says-no" before it was uploaded:-) Others you could use: http://www.animationlibrary.com/sc/141/Ducks_and_Geese/?page=2
I'm guessing from your reaction that that is a no.
 
@FaheemMitha yes I know that's what the system told me I just couldn't connect any of the words in your comment to what I wrote (which was just for once a direct statement, not a reference to anything)
@JosephWright trying to install the pretest again...
 
@DavidCarlisle Yes, I see. Sorry, was reading too much into it.
 
9:14 AM
Mr. Joseph Wright, sorry I just saw your response for chat
 
@DavidCarlisle The context is that "Little Britain" has this comedy sketch where an obnoxious person tells customers "Computer says no".
 
@JosephWright Mr. Joseph Wright, sorry I just saw your response for chat. What workflow solution do you normally use for chemistry publication in which you would need chemical compound labeling? (Even if not submitting to the arXiv, I'm still concerned about the security risk with -shell-escape)
 
I thought the gif might be a reference to that. Anyway, apologies for the noise.
 
@Anthony Most chemistry publications expect Word submissions
@Anthony I'd always want 'finalised' graphics for publications, so it's hand-editing for me
 
@JosephWright I see. Then in what context would you use the chemstyle and chemnum packages?
 
9:21 AM
@Anthony Writing things like reports, though I'd be happy using chemnum for the references in text in a paper (they can be done automatically)
 
Thank you that is very helpful. Sorry if I took much of your time!
 
9:48 AM
@FaheemMitha people who don't want distracting noise shouldn't log in to chat:-)
 
@DavidCarlisle That duck saying no to everything is technically a Prolog shell. :)
 
10:19 AM
Hi all
I'd like to define a new type of operators, which would be the same as the usual ones I define using \DeclareMathOperator, but with a different font.
I tried searching the site for some guidance on how to do this, but was unable to find anything that seemed to apply. Anyone have any idea how to do this/where to find instructions?
 
@Danu \DeclareMathOperator\zzz{\mathwhatever{hello}} should work?
 
@DavidCarlisle That'd indeed be one way of doing it. I somehow thought it'd be nicer to define a new "class" of operators---but maybe that's just overdoing it. Do you think so?
(I'm doing this because I'd like to use a different font for categories)
 
@Danu The symbol for a category shouldn't be a math operator.
 
10:37 AM
@Danu \def\DeclareZZMathOperator#1#2{\DeclareMathOperator#1{\mathwhatever{#2}} then you can use \DeclareZZMathOperator ?
@Danu regrettably I find myself agreeing with @egreg.
@Danu or do you mean things like \mathbf{Hom} (which should be a mathop, I'd say)
 
Please, let me know what would be better! This is the first time I'm learning about categories---and I'm not a tex expert either...
What kind of symbols should I be using for categories (@egreg, @DavidCarlisle)?
 
@Danu what do you mean by "for categories" do you mean the names of specific categories, or the names of elements of a category or of the functors or....
 
The names of categories, like Top or K-Vect, etc. I plan on using math operators for the objects (\operatorname{Ob}) and the morphisms (\operatorname{Mor})
 
@Danu Definitely not operators.
 
@egreg Thanks for alerting me that this is not good practice---what alternative do you suggest?
 
10:49 AM
@Danu I meant things such as Top, but Ob and Mor are operators. Something like K-Vect needs special care, however. Probably I'd define \newcommand{\Vect}[1]{#1{\operatorname{\mathbf{-Vect}}}} using the features of \operatorname for getting a hyphen rather than a minus sign. Then you'd say \Vect{K}
 
@egreg Yes, I understood what you meant.
 
@Danu Note the extra braces around \operatorname, so it's treated as an ordinary symbol.
 
@egreg Okay. But for more simple things like Top: What would you use?
 
11:05 AM
@DavidCarlisle Well, apologies anyway. And I'm not sure why I thought you'd be making a TV reference anyway.
 
11:28 AM
@Danu First of all, define an abstract command: \newcommand{\category}[1]{\mathbf{#1}} and then do \newcommand{\Top}{\category{Top}} for the names you use more frequently or that, like K-Vect need some special treatment. Here \mathbf is just a stub, you can change it at any time so ensuring uniformity.
@Danu So the code above would become \newcommand{\Vect}[1]{#1{\operatorname{\category{-Vect}}}}
 
11:45 AM
@JosephWright pretest finally works, running test suite.....
 
 
1 hour later…
12:48 PM
  All checks passed
@JosephWright phew:-)
 
1:01 PM
I do pity those of you from other countries, not having the BBC to have that public service investigative journalism that answers the important issues of the day: bbc.co.uk/guides/z8jcwxs
 
1:17 PM
@DavidCarlisle LOL
 
@DavidCarlisle I thought J.R.R Tolkien wrote Star Wars... some parallels about the Ring and the Force are evident ...
@PauloCereda: One Force To Rule them All ;-)
 
@ChristianHupfer I know it wasn't him as he is in the field next to this office.
 
@DavidCarlisle Of course he is, I have no doubt about this statement. \end{pretend} ;-)
 
@ChristianHupfer he really is.
 
@DavidCarlisle: Another guy having the same name?
 
1:28 PM
@ChristianHupfer nope. no one believes anything I write :( findagrave.com/cgi-bin/fg.cgi?page=cr&CRid=658454
 
@DavidCarlisle :D -- I misunderstood field :D
 
@ChristianHupfer It is literally just the other side of the hedge from where I park my car.
 
Well, perhaps I will see it in some weeks. I will be in London for a few days and some 'sight-seeing' slots must be filled.
@DavidCarlisle: And of course seeing your car is on top of my list ;-)
I am bad a...
LaTeX is meant for good typesetting, not for producing fancy stuff ;-) — Christian Hupfer 2 mins ago
 
@ChristianHupfer oh join the queue that gets the bus from London to Oxford, spend an hour in Oxford, get the bus to Cambridge, spend an hour in Cambridge, get the bus to London, get the bus to Heathrow and be out of the country in a couple of days, having seen all the main bits. There are buses for all legs of that journey running every ten minutes or so....
 
2:12 PM
@UlrikeFischer: "as there has been quite some changes" understatement for "it's completely incompatible with everything" :-)
 
2:38 PM
Apr 14 '15 at 17:07, by Paulo Cereda
@JosephWright Ah the English way of telling "The world is burning". :)
 
yo'
I'm not happy about the ad, but the webpage deserves one.
 
@DavidCarlisle Hm, I have the impression you want to have me out of your country :-(
 
2:54 PM
@ChristianHupfer not at all just suggesting what appears to be the most popular travel itinerary:-)
 
@DavidCarlisle Well, I have been in Cambridge already 12 years ago, I think King's Chapel is still there, as well Trinity College or John's College etc and the Cam river and the bridges ;-)
 
@ChristianHupfer oh in that case that box is already ticked so you just need to do London<->Oxford not the usual triangle so you can be in and out the country in a day:-)
 
@DavidCarlisle Which will prevent sightseeing your car, amongst other prominent features, e.g. that Tolkien grave thingy ;-)
@DavidCarlisle: Isn't Stonehenge also in that area? Wait, I'll ask @egreg -- he must know, he most probably was there when they built Stonehenge ;-)
 
@ChristianHupfer you can see it here:
Nov 11 '15 at 14:51, by David Carlisle
@FaheemMitha one main branch split down it's full length, in the picture below you see the whole horizontal part above my car split off the bright orange wood going vertically up the tree. Willow's are prone to spltting:-) https://goo.gl/photos/KaxWNk8irfipTFUR6
 
@DavidCarlisle @barbarabeeton @DavidCarlisle: amsgen.sty redefines \@ifstar, and this breaks some tests in the KOMA-classes (see tex.stackexchange.com/questions/303623/…). Do someone knows what is the rationale behind the redefinition?
 
3:03 PM
@ChristianHupfer not so far (although I've never been)
 
@DavidCarlisle I'll ring your door bell then ;-)
 
@UlrikeFischer Might be the trailing-argument business (`\` in arrays): let me check
 
@UlrikeFischer I think to match the change to \@ifnextchar (avoid skipping white space)
the doc says
% There will essentially never be a space before the \qc{\*}, so
% using \cs{@ifnextchar} is unnecessarily slow.
 
@DavidCarlisle I suspect speed is not the key thing really, though the comment is not entirely helpful!
 
@JosephWright yes despite the comment making \\* and \\[ not pick up the characters after a line break was a major aim at the time
 
3:10 PM
@DavidCarlisle Exactly (and still something we need to think about more in xparse!)
@DavidCarlisle One for the next team meeting
 
@JosephWright \int_case:nnn on texlive list:-)
 
@DavidCarlisle Pull request made
 
3:26 PM
@JosephWright yep got the mail
 
@UlrikeFischer -- i think @david and @joseph have got the underlying reason it's defined. as far as i can tell, it was included in the original translation from ams-tex. recognizing a space that intervenes between \\ and a [ is very important; not so clear about the * but plausible. i'm putting this on the list of things that need to be considered when amsmath is overhauled (since i haven't yet turned the list over to @david).
 
@DavidCarlisle The sty contains a \new@ifnextchar, I wonder why it then didn't define a \new@ifstar ... it is a bit unfortunate when a package modifies such a kernel command.
 
@barbarabeeton Yes, that's my feeling too. AS I say, for 2e this is 'fixed' but I want to tackle the team yet again about xparse and whether our current approach there is right
 
@barbarabeeton @JosephWright @DavidCarlisle: Yes, I think the spaces are important. If I do \def\@ifstar{\peek_charcode_remove:NTF*} the test from KOMA still fails, but with \def\@ifstar{\peek_charcode_remove_ignore_spaces:NTF*} they work again. But I'm not sure what KOMA can do -- probably will need to save the original definition.
 
@ChristianHupfer No, it's another road.
 
3:38 PM
@UlrikeFischer yes but it's been doing it since before there has been a latex2e kernel, so not clear if it can so easily change now.
 
cfr
Can anybody provide a better answer to this question?
 
@DavidCarlisle The kernel (or amsgen) could at least store the old definition somewhere, e.g. as \@ifstarignorespaces.
 
cfr
4
Q: Logicproof dashed boxes for Natural Deduction

NwaI have been using the Logicproof package to write proofs in Fitch style. It creates environments using tabular to make writing proofs less bothersome. I can't seem to figure out how to create a dashed box in a subproof as in this example: This is what I have so far. The second subproof should...

 
@UlrikeFischer Probably \kernel@ifstar
 
3:53 PM
@UlrikeFischer possibly although it's only a trivial wrapper around ifnextchar so you could just use \kernel@ifnextchar*{...}{...} in places where it matters.
 
 
2 hours later…
6:12 PM
@egreg Thanks a lot for your advice (as always!)
 
@Danu You're welcome!
 
By the way---what kind of work do you do (mathematically)?
(more specifically than "algebra"?)
 
@Danu use of % at ends of lines:-)
 
6:43 PM
@DavidCarlisle Is that actually "good practice"?
 
@Danu Ah, now that depends on the context ...
 
7:20 PM
@Danu I defer to @egreg, hang on, there is a video....
 
@DavidCarlisle I particularly liked the conclusion :-)
@DavidCarlisle 'Leave this daftness to the team and use expl3'
 
@JosephWright after the low point of one of the earlier slides, you mean?
 
nevermind....
 
@NaCl glad we could help:-)
 
:-)
 
7:32 PM
@DavidCarlisle cool, thanks!
 
I have no clue why it works now, but yeah
 
@NaCl I had just been about to say the tag on stackoverflow might be a better place to pick up gnuplot knowledge
 
@Danu Module theory, with excursions to categories
 
@egreg Ah, so you're all about things like $\mathbf{R}\operatorname{-\mathbf{Mod}}$? ;)
 
@DavidCarlisle He said there was a duck traitor in the chatroom. :)
 
7:40 PM
@Danu Of course! But with additional braces!
 
Damnit, I messed it up again? :P
I think I really followed your outline, there!
 
> It is the only way to do it. Feel free to not use and be unable to set up hyphenation.
^^ Arthur's reply. :)
 
@PauloCereda Indeed
 
8:46 PM
@Johannes_B: I like to bash KOMA ;-)
 
8:58 PM
@egreg well spotted, good eyesight for an old man (( was still looking for \fi in an argument hadn't got round to empty ones yet:-)
 
@DavidCarlisle I was tracing back too: I'm surprised @PLK didn't just mail me :-)
 
9:22 PM
@DavidCarlisle My glasses are still good!
 
@DavidCarlisle @egreg just used his \documentglass(es) ;-) A bad joke, of course ...
 
@ChristianHupfer I'm way faster than @DavidCarlisle, everybody knows.
 
@egreg after I'd primed it for you to get the log
 
@DavidCarlisle I was busy looking for % in other questions
 

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