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12:34 AM
@1010011010 ooh
@Johannes_B :)
1:02 AM
@Werner I find a little odd that this tex.stackexchange.com/q/264423/3954 is closed as "Unclear what you are asking". I agree that it is a case of a "do-it-for-me" question, but it is completely clear what the OP was asking (the answer was accepted). I think the reason for closing it is wrong. Just to be clear, I am not necessarily saying that it shouldn't have been closed, just that the reason should be other.
4 hours later…
5:13 AM
@GonzaloMedina Perhaps "too broad" would have been a better fit.
6 hours later…
11:31 AM
@GonzaloMedina @Werner The correct reason would be "off-topic because it is not useful to any further visitors".
11:57 AM
@JosephWright I've got a gold badge for git (with an svn answer)
@DavidCarlisle at which site?
@yo' here:-)
@yo' You've earned the "Populist" badge (Highest scoring answer that outscored an accepted answer with score of more than 10 by more than 2x) for "Inserting git commit date without hooks".
@DavidCarlisle oh you mean the Populist, not !
@yo' a badge is a
@DavidCarlisle no results, sorry :D
12:01 PM
@yo' don't click on this
speaking of badges: more tikz skills moving me towards my gold badge: tex.stackexchange.com/a/264555/1090
@DavidCarlisle And I just train my TikZ skills on my furniture (read: I don't need badges to feel like a TikZpert...)
12:33 PM
@DavidCarlisle It certainly shows your great mastery in TikZ!
@egreg I thought you'd be impressed
12:52 PM
@DavidCarlisle Very! Deep knowledge of TikZ and LaTeX. And you can even distinguish between { and [!
Does someone know how one should write \the\month in expl3 code? There is \tex_month:D, but :D is "do not use".
@UlrikeFischer I don't think there's an interface yet.
@UlrikeFischer In my opinion it is not implemented yet. @Joseph shall know more.
@egreg although I left the advanced information about % at end of line to you.
I like the title of this question asking for font consistency in a document where three different fonts are used, two of which incompatible serif ones.
Q: font consistency in environment (theorem...) and in general text

user565739I am using a template, and it uses the font \usefont{T1}{bch}{m}{n}\selectfont{}, the third font in the code and output, for the text in general. But this font is not used inside environments, like Theorem and so on. When there is a theorem on a page with a lot of general text, I feel some incons...

@DavidCarlisle I know that you can't go that far.
12:57 PM



\int_const:Nn \c_month_int { \tex_month:D }

\int_show:N \c_month_int
@yo' That's cheating ;-). You are using \tex_month:D. Also I really don't want to define local or not so local constants for such "primitive" values.
@UlrikeFischer As noted, not yes implemented at any higher level
@UlrikeFischer Raise on LateX-L with a use case :-)
@UlrikeFischer As @Joseph just confirmed, it's the only way to go for now :-)
@UlrikeFischer @FrankMittelbach is currently thinking about 'runtime' stuff, which this might fit in to
@JosephWright l3runtime?
1:01 PM
@yo' or you could do \let\c_month_int\month for the impure at heart:-)
@yo' Well our main question at the moment is the current \pdftex_if_engine:TF and the like, which after a long campaign have been agreed to be better as \<something>_if_pdftex:TF
@yo' There are quite a few of these runtime things to think about
@JosephWright ah makes sense
@JosephWright one of them is "benchmarking" tools, I would see a use for "named stopwatches"
@JosephWright run seems as a good prefix to me.
@topskip Patrick! Hello there! Long time no see...
@yo' Talk to @FrankMittelbach :-)
Hi @yo'! Back to life...
@topskip Ciao!
1:11 PM
@topskip Pat! <3
@JosephWright Yes \month, \time etc could fit in the runtime part and I will add a remark. What about other "integer parameter", e.g. \endlinechar?
@topskip Can you add an example of how you make the number bold?
@UlrikeFischer \endlinechar is rather different
Mathematicians: Which do you prefer? $Q_i \cap Q_j = \varnothing$ or $Q_i \cap Q_j = \emptyset$
@PauloCereda \emptyset but I prefer spelling it out if it makes sense in the context: "... for disjoint $Q_i$ and $Q_j$."
1:13 PM
@PauloCereda \varnothing is used by plumbers to denote the diameter of their pipes.
@JosephWright Yes, so where would it fit in? What should someone use who wants to change it locally or simply inspect the current value?
@UlrikeFischer Packages that manage dates used to abuse \month by locally changing its value, mainly for not wasting a count register. This is not a problem any more.
user image
Future TeX user...
@topskip a new emacs user! congratulations!
Speaking of symbols, are there any other good choices for an item symbol than a bullet or a dash? I don't like bullet together with Palatino, and I don't like dash in a math text...
1:15 PM
@topskip \smallskip
@egreg ooh I love tihs!
@topskip awwww <3
@DavidCarlisle Her fingers are still OK, so no emacs yet
@topskip Your new maintainer. <3
@topskip LOL!
@egreg :-)
@DavidCarlisle A new German girl, so expect extreme efficiency since day zero. :) She will use vim, of course. :)
1:18 PM
@egreg My remark was about \endlinechar, not month. Also I don't want to change \month etc only access the values (I wrote a small macro to get a time stamp in xelatex and wondered about the \time in \int_gset:Nn\g_my_curhour_int{\int_div_truncate:nn{\time}{60}}
@PauloCereda ^^
@JosephWright actually Bruno already mentioned the "time" commands in the discussion.
@UlrikeFischer Current thinking with \endlinechar remains that it shouldn't be generally accessible, only set within defined contexts. I don't think that will change in the near future.
@DavidCarlisle Parfum de citron LOLOLOL
@UlrikeFischer (sorry Ulrike!)
@UlrikeFischer Of course, use cases are always handy
1:25 PM
"Look Ma, this man can twist his fingers as if they were made of rubber,
isn't that amazing? -- Not really, he's been using emacs for years...!"
@JosephWright Well regarding the time commands: chat.stackexchange.com/transcript/message/23855883#23855883. The endlinechar only came in because I looked in the texbook at the list of "integer parameters".
@UlrikeFischer Ah
@UlrikeFischer We don't plan to provide direct access to everything :-) \endlinechar and \newlinechar (currently) seem best handled behind the scenes
@topskip Doesn't that depend on which keyboard layout is being used. If you are on a French or a Danish keyboard layout, you'd have funny fingers.
@topskip I hope someone takes care to give her the important Gummiente!
@UlrikeFischer Yes, she has got one. I'll post a picture tomorrow.
@DavidCarlisle reminds me of ...
1:36 PM
What am I doing wrong here (playing with \str_lower_case:n

\str_lower_case:n {Sætning}

Comes out as sÃętning
@UlrikeFischer awwww <3
@daleif the exlp3 functions only lowercase real character so xe or luatex or latin1 inputenc, they don't decode the utf8-ish representation inputenc is using
@JosephWright ^^ unless I got that wrong:-)
@DavidCarlisle ahh, my bad, I did not read all the text in the manual
Seems to get hit with that \tl_ hammer all the time (aka, if something does not work, look up the \tl_ equivalent to what you are attempting to do)
1:52 PM
@daleif however you dress things up, tex's a macro language and things come down to \def in the end:-)
@DavidCarlisle This is indeed an interesting area
@daleif I need to work out what we should do here: it's not so easy
@DavidCarlisle There's the whole question of how to handle pdfTeX going forward: lots of things at TUG2015 suggest we need to continue to work with 8-bit engines
@daleif BTW, as you are typesetting you probably want \tl_lower_case:n :-) (That can handle LICR and as it doesn't detokenize will leave alone actives, such as UTF-8 in pdfTeX)
@DavidCarlisle This area has been worrying me: one for the team list!
@JosephWright No Super Nintendo? :)
(watch a good joke die...)
@PauloCereda :-)
@JosephWright <3
Isn't it funny when a journal provides for free their articles, but the figures are missing in them? :-)
2:02 PM
@yo' Ouch!
@PauloCereda well, not a big deal for me this time, since I only wanted to check what the article is roughly about, but still .... :-)
2:14 PM
Is MathSciNet down?!
@yo' I can reach Bielefeld
@egreg it works again now. I was getting 404 all over the place couple minutes ago...
@JosephWright \tl_lower_case:n works fine. I'm going to let the user override if they do not like automatic lc (via a g in the interface)
3:04 PM
@egreg -- i'm going to sic you on the unicode guys! they have refused my every entreaty to encode the slashed zero even as a recognized variant of their slashed circle. (but the one for "empty set" in unicode is different from the one for "diameter".)
@JosephWright -- 8-bit engines? please do continue!
@barbarabeeton Is there any mathematician among them? Pure math, I mean.
@barbarabeeton The two symbols have the same meaning when (pure) math is concerned, it's just a stylistic choice. The fact that CS people started to use the slashed zero for distinguishing it from O is just coincidence. So the slashed zero can be both a variant for zero or empty set, which is not of a problem, is it?
3:51 PM
@yo' Far more betterer indeed. I'll customize the message next time.
@egreg -- nope. the best i can do as to non cs people is a couple of physicists. and though i know it's only a stylistic choice, i've seen at least one paper where the slashed zero was clearly chosen because there were parallel equations in which one had an actual zero and the other had a null set in the equivalent position. i'll try to find that example again. (it didn't work the first time, but maybe now ...)
@barbarabeeton Besides, from a pure mathematician's point of view, $0=\emptyset$
4:08 PM
@yo' @JosephWright @UlrikeFischer @DavidCarlisle the interesting question for me (besides what to name the module those things live in :-) ) would be: is this really a constant or is this more of a read only variable (which we don't have but did in expl3 at one time)? I mean it is changing on recompile
@FrankMittelbach Well, for me "constant" means "unmodifiable". I consider label-ref info as constant, for instance. But that can be only me...
@FrankMittelbach I'm for "read only variable" too. It falls in the category pdfelapsedtime, savepos etc
@yo' well it is both technically modifiable as well as modifying itself if you recompile the same document next day
@FrankMittelbach well, I can modify whatever I want, but ok ... "unmodifiable during runtime, by convention"
@UlrikeFischer we had \R_... at some point but that creaded more confusion than being helpful ...
@yo' true with a few exceptions (even in TeX) but it is different from something like \maxdimen which is much more of a constant
4:16 PM
If something, I'm probably for "getters" as functions rather than for introducing a "read-only" concept separate from "c_"
@FrankMittelbach yeah, the elapsed time, pagegoal, true page count etc.
@yo' I'm not suggesting to reintroduce readonly variables
@FrankMittelbach I know :-) But obviously something has to (will have to) be done.
@yo' how true (eventually)
@barbarabeeton Need to talk to the rest of the team about this :-)
@FrankMittelbach I wouldn't really mind if the \c_ prefix is used. While it is not the same as a "real" constant, the "don't touch me" is valid too. I'm more interested in a sensible expl3-name. What postfix should they get? Are \month, \year, \time integers (that means does all functions work as expected)?
4:21 PM
@UlrikeFischer They are certainly integers (or can be stored in public interfaces which are)
@UlrikeFischer well, they are num registers, so yes, integers.
@UlrikeFischer A bigger issue than \month is something like \prevdepth, which is read-only but not constant :-)
@JosephWright yep. As I said, to me, \prevdepth is a "function of the current state of the engine", and as such, it's a function.
I mean, in procedural programming (such as C, C++, python, whatever), it would be a function.
@yo' Would it?
@yo' It's an integer variable, surely
@JosephWright well, I was likely over-simplifying. In OOP, you often don't touch "foreign" variables directly; there are often functional getters for them.
4:25 PM
@yo' I guess I'm seeing it more at the low level (assembler or whatever): it's a register you can read but can/should not write to
@JosephWright ah, but expl3 is not a low-lever interface, is it? :-)
@yo' No, but it's certainly not OOP. More C than Java :-)
(I mean, you can do \prevdepth10pt in TeX core, but you should not do it :-) )
Q: Warlords of Documentation: A Proposed Expansion of Stack Overflow

Kevin MontroseIt’s been 7 years and 10,000,000+ Questions since Stack Overflow was launched. The amount of good that has been done for the field - all the developers helped, all the person-hours saved, all the beginners who grew into professionals - is hard to overstate. I cannot express how proud I am of what...

@JosephWright Even in C, if I needed to access ESP register or whatever, I would probably prefer writing a function getESP to accessing the register somehow directly
4:28 PM
You guys behave or I'll be forced to use some Lambda Calculus. :)
@PauloCereda well, you've designed dozens of languages and you know hundreds of them, you could have said a constructive word, too!
@UlrikeFischer post fix will certainly be _int ... we will move off the stupid idea of \c_one and normalize that too eventually at least that is the current thinking
@FrankMittelbach I'm not sure stupid idea is entirely fair :-)
(Wasn't my idea :-)
@JosephWright well mine I think so I can call it stupid ... with an appropiate definition of "stupid" of course done first
@FrankMittelbach :-)
@FrankMittelbach Certainly goes back a long way so you/Chris/@DavidCarlisle (?)
4:36 PM
@JosephWright I guess according to my memory most of the more "stupid" ideas of expl3 initially are mine (after all I wrote more or less the first full kernel) but then it is probably not at all true really ... only so long ago that I don't know
@FrankMittelbach Sadly we don't have version data for stuff
@FrankMittelbach \c_one is in r2 (there are no files in r1)
@JosephWright if you go digging into history in earnest, there is a CVS version most likely somewhere that would reveal all that stuff
@FrankMittelbach Indeed: joseph@comedy:/serv/latex-project/cvs/latex3$
@JosephWright see?
@JosephWright now you can tell me my memory is all faulty :-)
@FrankMittelbach -bash: cvs: command not found
4:51 PM
@JosephWright tough
@yo' I will get hurt! :)
@JosephWright \prevdepth is not read-only.
@yo' And one can do \prevdepth=<whatever>. See \nointerlineskip
@clemens FYI: I just saw the new google logo, and only because you posted about it.
@egreg I know.
btw, my furniture gets some more details. I wonder when I get myself to start the business. Probably in November/December. And I still love TikZ :-)
What's the right place for pure gnuplot questions? SO?
Q: gnuplot: selectively put certain keys to the top

computereasyI am trying to use gnuplot to draw a figure. Due to the limited space, the figure is drawn like this: I am thinking to move the first three labels (ins-replace, bb-split and func-reorder to the top of the figure, outside!) So it should be something like this : set key outside But basically...

5:05 PM
@egreg SO, or possibly SU
@egreg btw, stackover flow :-)
@JosephWright Do you think the question @egreg links is migratable?
@yo' I'll try it :-)
@JosephWright I saw, I gave it a +1 as a kick-off, let's see what happens :-) maybe we get it back soon...
5:39 PM
@DavidCarlisle Am thinking of a blog post in praise of GitHub :-)
No I'm not, this is the references slide: \begin{frame}[allowframebreaks] \frametitle{References} \tiny{\bibliographystyle{abbrv} } \bibliography{references} \end{frame} should I use that package? @Johannes_B — ashkanent 1 min ago
You don't see this every day.
6:20 PM
@Johannes_B just a tiny style. You know, I don't want something huge, I've always been satisfied with a little.
6:32 PM
what to do with these two: Looking for a latex directory class from Patrick GELIN (was first, yesterday), and Looking for a latex directory (for persons) class from PatrickG (earlier today)? i think the later one was an attempt to phrase the earlier in a manner that answered the comments on the earlier one, but in the process a second account was created. the first one should go, but this person does need help.
6:53 PM
@barbarabeeton I've reverse merged into the later one
@JosephWright -- thanks.
1 hour later…
8:08 PM
@JosephWright What's the difference between \space and \addspace in biblatex? When should one be used instead of the other?
Also, hello. :p
@AdamLiter I think that \addspace adds nothing if it happens to be before or after a space, whereas \space adds it unconditionally (unless something that suppresses space follows, such as \addcomma).
@egreg That would make sense. It looks like \space is usually after \addcoma, but \addpsace usually occurs inside of \setunit*. But I also thought that the starred variant of \setunit already checked to see if anything was printed previously?
@PauloCereda: Writing from Fedora 22 to you ;-) Fresh install
8:27 PM
@ChristianHupfer Yay! How are your impressions so far?
@Christian: some of my suggestions still apply for F22: github.com/cereda/f21-setup
@PauloCereda: Quite nice -- I used the KDE spin, however
@PauloCereda: By the way, how are you?
@ChristianHupfer Cool, nice to hear your experience. :) Welcome to the Fedora club, together with @yo', @michal, @cfr and me. :)
@ChristianHupfer In a hurry as usual, but fine. :) How about you?
@PauloCereda Basically the same, although it's already late here ;-)
@ChristianHupfer Europeans are always ahead of time. :)
Except the NZ bloke in the L3 list, he's from the future. :) @JosephWright
@PauloCereda :-)
8:35 PM
@PauloCereda Sure :D ... Any plans to be abroad in near future? Or traveling throughout Brazil?
@PauloCereda Certainly messed up my mail threading
@ChristianHupfer I will find out in September 7 if I will go to Buenos Aires for a conference. :)
@JosephWright Same here. Thunderbird went crazy.
@PauloCereda Ah, another opportunity to Polish your Spanish ;-) (Bad joke)
@ChristianHupfer :P
@Christian: I was in a bar in Barcelona and the waitress thought I was French!
@PauloCereda Did you tell bad LaTeX jokes to her? :-P
8:42 PM
@ChristianHupfer Non, je suis un gentleman. :)
@PauloCereda Bien sure, monsieur Cereda ;-)
@ChristianHupfer Gracias. :)
@egreg, @yo' or any mathematicians around? :)
Hi @Frank!
9:04 PM
@PauloCereda Hi Paulo ... not really here ... just turned on the laptop to check on Albert Einstein
@FrankMittelbach He's not been well for some time
@JosephWright but his handwriting is ... haraldgeisler.com
he's soon gonna write in LaTeX (perhaps)
@FrankMittelbach Not too expensive
@FrankMittelbach Planning to use with pdfTeX or as a system font?
@JosephWright we'll see, but probably not ... Harald was here today (you wanted to know was Chris and I are up to :-)
@FrankMittelbach You get all the best visitors
9:11 PM
@JosephWright come visit me then
@PauloCereda Here I am
@Johannes_B :D
9:29 PM
@egreg Mind if I ask a very very silly mathematical question? I am just a humble programmer.
@PauloCereda I don't think it's too silly.
@PauloCereda Now I am, for like 5 minutes
@egreg, @yo': Thanks, guys. :)
@PauloCereda De rien :) (I don't think English has a spotty enough equivalent)
I was wondering if I could define (in mathematical terms) a function that acts like a hash (something like a Gödel number, maybe). I need to say that, for f(x) = y, y is unique?
9:42 PM
@PauloCereda well, you can, on any set you know how to enumerate. But defining a "hash function" mathematically is much more complicated
@yo' I see.
@PauloCereda If you really mean "y is unique", it's simple mathematically and imposible computerally. If you mean "f(x1)=f(x2) is improbable", that's another thing.
@yo' Ah yes, I understand that. :) I meant for a countable and small set. :)
However now it seems it's the best constellation of stars and planets to go to bed. See you tomorrow!
@yo' Good night, Tom! Bonsoir!
9:46 PM
@PauloCereda You mean "bonne nuit" I suppose :)
@PauloCereda Any injective map will do.
@PauloCereda The identity, for instance. To a pure mathematician, this is a perfectly good hash function. ;-)
@egreg Oh thanks, that sounds very interesting!
@yo' Buongiorno. :P
@egreg Thanks a lot. :)
@egreg: in other news, Claudio is a lovely person. :)
@PauloCereda The condition that f(x_1)=f(x_2) implies x_1=x_2 is called injectivity. This makes the function invertible (over its range).
@PauloCereda Yes, he is.
@egreg Got it, thank you very very much!
@egreg I will record my video soon. :) Are you one of my reviewers? I think it's a secret. Shhh! :)
@egreg You are as helpful as any pure mathematician. One day, I should tell you a good anectode I know about them :-) Now I really go.
9:54 PM
@yo' Nooooooooooo
Don't go Tom. <3
@yo' No fries with a pure mathematician? oooh pome de terre!
@yo' Man in a balloon?
@egreg I know one about a room on fire and a bucket of water over the table. :)
@PauloCereda “Oh, well! A solution exists.”.
@egreg The very same!
10:19 PM
@PauloCereda And goes back to bed.
@PauloCereda Meanwhile, another answer with “add %”. :)
10:40 PM
@egreg ooh road to 500k! :)
@PauloCereda :)

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